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11018140 No.11018140 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Math is the only field where we can be sure of anything.
Every other field is jut "trust me bro, i know what I'm talking about"

>> No.11018142

>>11018140
Not true. Not even math is something we can be sure of (Godel). The only thing we can be sure of is that something exists (Descartes)

>> No.11018145
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11018145

>> No.11018148

>>11018145
My professional philosopher dad tells me this all the time.

>> No.11018166

>>11018142
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but Gördel doesn't state that we're uncertain about everything , just some things.
>>11018145
Math is both wider and more effective than philosophy because philosophy strives to uncover truths about texistence the world. Math goes beyond that , in that you choose the rule set and you couldn't talk about stuff that doesn't even exist in our world

>> No.11018294

>>11018145
based

>> No.11018313

>>11018140
Wrong every person that I've met that's graduated with a math degree is a moron who can't explain anything to anyone.

Engineering is the only true science field. Keep being peasants

>> No.11018314

>>11018166
math is literally applied philosophy

>> No.11018319
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11018319

Lol, ok.

>> No.11018345

>>11018145
bro what kind of job would I get as a philosopher? I don't care about shit loads of cash, just enough to breath air.
Also I consider math a philosophical art.
>>11018314
math is extremely formalized. I'd call it the formal philosophy of spaces, numbers, and measures (plus the extra).

>> No.11018409

>>11018345
>what kind of job would I get as a philosopher?
lawyer, professor, author, journalist, or politician

>> No.11018441

>>11018140
math's internal consistency with itself is useless until you apply it to reality, however, so in practice it's even worse about that than most fields

>> No.11018461

>>11018140
>>11018145
Define "purity"

>> No.11018704

>>11018461
Closer to God

>> No.11018721

>>11018145
What does thinking outside of the box even mean?

>> No.11018742

>>11018721
As a philosopher, I don't understand it myself. Mathematicians are definitely outside the box. The idea that math caters to descriptions of the box (the physical universe) is not true.

>> No.11018746

>>11018140
>implying you aren't trusting mathematical proofs to not contain errors
>implying things like Shinichi Mochizuki's flawed proof of the ABC conjecture don't exist

>> No.11018748

>>11018721
>>11018742
the box is always relative, you can pretty much always make a bigger box and a smaller box than any thing you think about

>> No.11018955

>>11018142
>The only thing we can be sure of is that something exists (Descartes)
You can be sure that the statement "Assuming ZFC, then Zorn's Lemma is true" will always be true.

>> No.11019072

>>11018148
What does a professional philosopher do for a living?

>> No.11019082

>>11018140
Chemistry? A reaction either works or it doesn’t.

>> No.11019226

>>11018345
Creator, God, Data entry

>> No.11019235

>>11018140
Chemistry and physics are super intertwined imo

>> No.11019241

>>11019072
Proffessiinal phylosophy

>> No.11019244

>>11019082
Not a chemist, but isn't this guy totally correct?

>> No.11019247

>>11019241
I give you one final chance to answer me properly and avoid bringing dishonor to your father and his profession.

>> No.11019249

>>11019247
philosophy for money

>> No.11019260

>>11018140
People asking about Philosophy jobs. My uncle has a PhD in it and he has worked for political think tanks, served on non-profit boards, consulted for a marketing group as well as television and been a lecturer at a university as his main gig. He also writes and publishes papers and has 2 books

>> No.11019266

>>11019249
THAT'S IT, SWINE!
Let it be known that Anon, on this day of our Lord, hath shown a devilish contention towards reason, and spake in a way to undermine his own family's reputation. His mother and father, being whore and scoundrel, and he himself, the product of such a lowly union, prefer brutishness and mischievous lifestyles, and align themselves grossly to live in a way that is opposite civility.

>> No.11019281

>>11018142
imagine misinterpreting philosophy this hard

>> No.11019288

>>11018742
I agree. Math extrapolates logical axioms to an extreme with no intentional/initial bearing on reality. Those who wish to logically model the physical world shape mathematics to their needs, but mathematics as purely conceptual as philosophy.

>> No.11019312
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11019312

>>11018140
Maths and aesthetic sensibility are the only forms of knowledge we can have absolute certainity in.

>> No.11019384

>>11019312
Yellow fever fag

>> No.11019398

>>11018140
Yes, because you make the rules yourself in math. Math only does deduction. You write your little axioms and then write theorems. But said theorems teach you nothing new, everything was already encoded within the axioms. It's boring and safe. Mathematicians are thoroughly afraid to try new things and perhaps be wrong.

The natural sciences are brave, they do not limit themselves to deduction and so they are actually capable of finding new things. Things like this, hypothesizing, experimenting, trying to figure out the truth from limited information, they make the mathfag extremely anxious.

>> No.11019399

>>11018140
The only field where we can sure of everything is engineering. When you walk over that bridge it doesn't collapse, that's because engineers know how to build a bridge that won't collapse.

>> No.11019408

>>11019266
Oh no! As ifeth these words and speaketh'eth had ever mattered! Like some fag who believes that writing in the fashion from teh Bible, or what they have experienced through stories of others, would somehow confer or convey the power that I wield which others obey!

>>11019398
= means 'maps to'
+ = give/add
- = take/sub
* = merge/function
÷ = sort/group

>> No.11019410

>>11018166
>>11018166
For those models/axiomatic sets strong enough to contain the naturals and operators upon them then yes there may exist somethings logical unprovable. So might as well give up studying maths now as it’s impossible to know everything with maths so why waste your time.

>> No.11019412

>>11019410
Agreed. Computers should take over ALL mathematics that doesn't have any true/natural language mapping.

The basic four parts of arithmetic are really all anyone needs but not with bullshit 'word' problems. The teachers should be trained in basic translation methodology so they can generate on-the-fly examples of these basic four operations with story, rhetoric, and respect.

>Exaggeration for 'negative infinity' examples from calculus
>Expression for 'approaching infinity' examples from calculus
>Emphasis for 'positive infinity' examples from calculus

Those would be the only 'three computational classes of construction'.

>> No.11019415

>>11019226
well I don't want to be a fucking god that sounds boring as hell.
and I hate lawyers and politicians. maybe I just won't pursue it professionally.
>>11019412
>calculus
wow, Solivagus, You aren't as cool as I thought you were. extremely cringe.
also if computers took over trivial math then engineers would be out of a job. I mean I'm not complaining but that would probably kill themselves out of the depression of the falling in their money over everything life style.

>> No.11019416

>>11019415
God isn't actually that boring, when you are the gaming/story/translation/sex god. It just takes a while to sort of whittle down 'if I was an eternal robot, what kind would I want to be in order to be a unique entry in the database?'

>extremely cringe.
Why do people advertise this? Perhaps on 4chan I could only ever come across as a cringe God? I don't really mind, the judgement exists in 'their' psychology. It just seems like a surprising response to others because people believe still that their judgement carries some weight, usually only because they still use money.
>I don't. Why the fuck would I?

And, more importantly, who cares if 'group' is out of a 'fixed time cycle of contribution to society'? We have 'other' groups.

>> No.11019566

>>11019408
>t. Faggot
Your father would not be pleased

>> No.11019711

>>11019399
>When you walk over that bridge it doesn't collapse
Perhaps you meant: When you walked over that bridge, it didn't collapse.

>> No.11019826

>>11019244
he's correct in the same sense as
>biology? well, it's either alive or it isn't
is

>> No.11020576

>>11018142
Can you fucking popscifags read for once what the statments of Goedels theorems actually mean

>> No.11020678

>>11019566
I'm amazed that you care about pleasing 'any' father in existence whatsoever, let alone mine. I'm not 'teh gay'.

>>11020576
Yes, it means at some point you all have to stop sucking his dick on an eternal time scale.

>> No.11020735

>>11018721
put someone in a box and think outside of it

>> No.11020737

>>11020735
actually.. made me laugh. thanks anon.

>> No.11020747

Can I see a manifold of topological structures? No.

Can I see a protozoan under a microscope? Yes.

Therefore biology/biophysics/chemistry is the supreme science.

>> No.11020750

>>11020747
Correct! Show & Tell is teh beast!

>> No.11020760

>>11020747
>Can I see a manifold of topological structures?

brainlet lacking visual imagination

>> No.11020761

>>11020750
Yes otherwise there is a theoretical drift, where arguments are being sustained on logic alone. It may turn out the natural word doesn’t conform to our understanding of logic. So science should be observation-centric.

>> No.11020764

>>11020760
That’s in the same category of mental activity as imagining a cartoon gumdrop world or imagining there is a god...

>> No.11020765

>>11020761
I agree. Observation & physical experimentation.

All other shit is just mental gymnastics for sapiosexuals.

>>11020764
You rang?

>> No.11020771

>>11020765
Right. A lot of current physics is “this model or explanation is consistent with the observational data” that’s nice but a lot of things can be consistent with the data but still be inadequate. Consistency isn’t enough of a criterion to establish truths. We need to also predictively experiment and succeed. So observation and physical experimentation, that’s exactly it.

>> No.11020773

>>11020771
Observation, experimentation, translation, and distribution methodologies then.

>> No.11020783

>>11020773
Well to distribute methodologies or models presents an additional burden for experimentation. It may turn out that a successful mode is only locally true and to establish it as true in wider contexts will require further research and experimentations.

>> No.11020787

>>11020764
Mental activity is the only realm that matters.

>> No.11020788 [DELETED] 

Successfully model*

>> No.11020792

>>11020787
In a roundabout way maybe sure, but mental activity needs a basis in the world to function correctly. Otherwise it sort of untethers.

>> No.11021172

>>11019399
The engineers knew how to do that because of the math that describes the system, so it still just goes back to math.

>> No.11021181

>>11020747
Whether or not you can see something has literally no bearing on it's existence.
When people hallucinate the see things that aren't real, and anytime anyone does any higher math they prove the existence of things we can't see.

>> No.11021242

>>11021181
math alone doesn't prove anything other than itself

>> No.11021349

>>11019399
Nice b8

>> No.11021356

>>11021242
Correct. It is the original intellect trap for pre-homosexual gods.

>I will never be gay or bi or even engage in homosexual/lesbian culture. Why? Because they are abusive individuals, no matter how happy they appear in public.

>> No.11021401

>>11021356
Unless they live together as 3 or more. It is the binary homosexual couple that is the ultimate mathematician.

>> No.11021410

>>11021401
>t.self+(You)+1

Laser 4chan tongue language

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