/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10949805]

is "nature" really worth conserving? i get it's pretty and all and we kinda need it for the time being but this whole bio conservation effort thing seems like the wrong approach to me. for one thing we could develop artificial ways of producing oxygen and food that would free us from the whims of the environment. then the whole what about that revolutionary drug somewhere in the amazon that may or may not even be there argument it seems like an idiotic approach too since drugs can be designed from the ground up. and saving the fucking whales? who fucking cares? evolution is just some crap shoot anyway, whatever permutation and combination of snps, it isn't fucking speshul.

artifice > nature

[OP No.10949857]

>>10949805
Humans are dependant on nature for survival for now. We are far away from technological self sufficiency in food production.

[Anonymous No.10949890]

Fuck nature. Sterilize the whole biosphere. Seriously I hate life.

[Anonymous No.10949900]

[Anonymous No.10950390]

>>10949805
Nature does things we don't expect. Particularly over long time periods. We simply aren't smart enough to make up for what nature can teach us. Be less arrogant.

[Anonymous No.10950399]

>>10950390
just wait till generalized ai is a thing and can simulate all those processes.

[Anonymous No.10950427]

>>10950399
I doubt it could compare. This line of dicussion is more than mildly reminiscent of the conflict between the celts, who embraced nature, and the romans, who feared nature.

[Anonymous No.10950451]

>>10950427
and the romans ran the celts and their ludditism into the ground. the thing with simulations if the hardware is good enough we could simulate billions of years and iterations much faster than nature ever could take to make some supposed thing we don't expect. also nature rarely makes things that are useful, most of it is garbage.

[Anonymous No.10950457]

>>10950451
>also nature rarely makes things that are useful, most of it is garbage.
Yeah like you lol

[Anonymous No.10950464]

>>10950457
yet here you are desperate to conserve it.

[Anonymous No.10950468]

>>10950457
kek

[Anonymous No.10950480]

>>10950451
>also AI rarely makes things that are useful, most of it is garbage.
Fixt.

The romans were responsible for throwing the entirety of western civilisation into a dark age which we are still struggling to break free from. Roman dominance was brief compared to the epic timescale of celtic culture. The romans did some things right and they did many more things wrong.

[Anonymous No.10950501]

>>10950480
>The romans were responsible for throwing the entirety of western civilisation into a dark age which we are still struggling to break free from.

[Anonymous No.10950502]

>>10950480
>also AI rarely makes things that are useful, most of it is garbage.
lmao, not really.
https://www.marsdd.com/magazine/computers-are-already-better-than-doctors-at-diagnosing-some-diseases/

also the ai rn is fairly rudimentary and not generalizable yet. once that happens nature is obsolete.

>Roman dominance was brief compared to the epic timescale of celtic culture.
lol, ireland is a joke. meanwhile the romans literally built western civilization from the greeks.

[Anonymous No.10950518]

>>10949805
>Dude let’s destroy everything xD

Psycho posters are my least favorite

[Anonymous No.10950522]

>>10950518
>Dude let’s destroy everything xD
no, convert to a better more useful form.

[Anonymous No.10950528]

>>10950522
>Dude let’s destroy everything xD

Go build your shitty tech dystopia on Mars where there’s no biosphere

[Anonymous No.10950531]

>>10950528
how about you kick your ludditism instead, fren? stop hating meaningful progress.

[Anonymous No.10950546]

>>10950501
You might enjoy this dystopia. I do not.
>>10950502
Sure. That's a ve simple thing to simulate. Only requiring that large amounts of existing data be processed quickly. It's impressive.

Show me AI making art, solving unintuitive problems and coming up with new ideas. Each has their place.

Ireland was all that remained of a glorious culture which spanned the globe and has influenced every major culture on earth. You don't know as much as you think you do. They were around for way longer than the romans lasted.

The failure of the celts was their neglect of the written word. Either that or their books have been destroyed or hidden.

>>10950522
Ditto.

[Anonymous No.10950547]

>>10950531
>You’re a Luddite because you don’t want to murder everything else in the biosphere haha

Shitpost 2: Beyond Coping

[Anonymous No.10950552]

>>10950546
>Show me AI making art

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/04/06/473265273/a-new-rembrandt-from-the-frontiers-of-ai-and-not-the-artists-atelier

[Anonymous No.10950567]

>>10949805
i like herping so it is worth conserving

[Anonymous No.10950570]

>>10950546
>That's a ve simple thing to simulate.
and yet it beat the meatbags.

>Show me AI making art
there are ganns now that do this.
https://deepart.io/

>solving unintuitive problems and coming up with new ideas.
so the ai that was used to beat starcraft players invented a new strategy no one thought of previously.

>and has influenced every major culture on earth.
not nearly to the same degree as the romans.

>>10950547
>You’re a Luddite because you don’t want to murder everything else in the biosphere haha
i never said i want to murder anything. just not save it if it's in the way of progress.

[Anonymous No.10950578]

>>10950570
>i never said i want to murder anything. just not save it if it's in the way of progress.

That’s a lovely way of saying “Murder Everything” because it’s in the way of your fucked up vision of the future.

[Anonymous No.10950584]

>>10950578
yes my vision is so horrible, can you imagine a world without disease, famine, and no longer being at the whims of nature. yeah so fucked up.

[Anonymous No.10950588]

>>10950584
You can have those things without touching nature. Leave and live in a bubble

[Anonymous No.10950591]

>>10950570
I have seen the art. Generally it is not very good. Not saying it can't be done but for the most part it is obscure and does nothing to convey human experience and emotion.

The starcraft and go AIs just tried more strategies until they found one that worked. There was no intuition. Their strategies were uncovered by nothing other that brute force processing power. Again this has a place but it is not THE place.

Celtic influence was different. They encouraged the full expression of human nature. Roman influence seeks to suppress human nature and turn people into mindless robots. Each to their own.

[Anonymous No.10950592]

>>10949890
This
99% of life is useless

[Anonymous No.10950600]

>>10950591
SC AI is easily beaten when it can’t have 1600 APM and map hacks

[Anonymous No.10950603]

>>10950588
where will i get my resources from? see the issue is the hippies get upset when we bore into the earth for resources.

>>10950591
>Not saying it can't be done but for the most part it is obscure and does nothing to convey human experience and emotion.
as long as you don't ascribe to the le spooky human qualia is speshul meme. ai doesn't have humanlike emotion yet. yet being the keyword.

>There was no intuition. Their strategies were uncovered by nothing other that brute force processing power.
so exactly like evolution in nature just much faster.

>Each to their own.
human nature is quite vile, i see no issue in suppressing it.

[Anonymous No.10951185]

>>10949805
if we could then it would be fine but we can't so it's not fine. the whole reason destroying the environment is bad is because we can't live without it. it needs to be safe for us to live in and it still needs to make food for us to eat.

this is why conservationists get flustered because harming the environment is just shooting yourself in the foot because we're part of the fucking environment. science isn't magic, as much as people want to wave a wand and believe that technology will swoop in and save us in the last second. do you know how many invasive species we've introduced globally? we can't even control something as basic as not moving animals across areas, let alone a widespread runaway ecological collapse.

[Anonymous No.10951250]

>>10950603
Eh, not much meat in your statements for me to dig into. Mostly we seem to hold polar systems of belief. One point though...

Emotions are derived from chemicals. Thoughts are derived from electrical signalling. AI has no chemical interface. Simulated emotion is faked emotion. By definition AI will be narcissistic and psychopathic.

[Anonymous No.10951374]

>>10949805
There's literally nothing gained from destroying nature. Do you want the planet to be absolutely covered in a giant city or something? Conserving the only known life in the universe is necessary until we have ways of recreating ecosystems whenever we want. Why would you want to lose something so rare and beautiful? Whether you like it or not humanity will forever keep nature around it because 95% of us don't like dull, rectangular structures in every direction we look. The idea is not limited to the hidden resources found in nature that could be beneficial. But if you really want to start killing off nature then go uproot all the plants in your house and replace your lawn with concrete. It just won't feel the same.

If you want to live like pic related then leave Earth and orbit the Sun in your own ship while the rest of us stay here in the lushness being true and honest to ourselves about what we are. 4 billion years of evolution progress down the drain just because a few ape faggots don't like nature and think it's okay to destroy it. Big talk from someone who cannot survive without it and doesn't try to create alternative ways of surviving

[Anonymous No.10951394]

>>10949805
ur gay

[Anonymous No.10951404]

>>10949890
Your viewpoint is just as valid as someone who loves life. You just chose to hate life because you don't want to appreciate what you have.

[Anonymous No.10951565]

>>10950603
>where will i get my resources from?

Uh..............................where we get them now?
Dig ‘em up. You can pull copper, platinum, gold, and iron out of the ground without killing everything. Dig shit up on Mercury or Mars and nothing is being harmed.

[Anonymous No.10951568]

>>10951250
>Simulated emotion is faked emotion

Nope.

[Anonymous No.10951572]

>>10949890
Were you a fan of Usenet's alt.pavetheearth?

[Anonymous No.10951585]

>>10951404
>emotional problems are a choice

[Anonymous No.10953537]

>>10951404
>>10951585
to butt in. They aren't a choice, but you have some influence over them. If you focus on appreciating what you have rather than your hatred of life, may find your feelings change. It takes effort, but it gets easier

[Anonymous No.10953758]

>>10949805

We are so far away from self sufficiency without nature that it's hilarious you can even think we're remotely close to it. You're alarmingly out of touch with current technology and with the importance/role of nature.

[Anonymous No.10953791]

>>10950584
>>10950603

This man really wants to live on a scorched barren Earth with no green spaces or other species.

Just wondering, have you thought about anything you're saying aside from "muh progress"?

[Anonymous No.10953866]

>>10953537
>implying i'm stronger than the forces inside
LOL THE BETTER I'VE GOTTEN AT PRETENDING TO BE NORMAL THE WORSE MY PSYCHOSIS AND MANIA HAVE GOTTEN HOLY FUCK WHERE IS THIS SHIT GONNA END UP LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Anonymous No.10953917]

Why do you think questioning existence in general would be better than questioning yourself?

[Anonymous No.10953994]

>>10953866
Well. Get therapy then. Even if it's only 1 cheap session.
You may not be stronger today, but the only way to win the game you lost is to play again. Maybe one day you'll be good enough to win

[Anonymous No.10954001]

>>10953994
I don't think you understand /b/ro. I want the mania and psychosis. There is no winning or losing. Just living. I'm addicted to fucking shit up.

[Anonymous No.10954026]

>>10949805

When you have the knowledge to create every aspect of "nature" from basic chemistry, then we'll talk about what is and isn't necessary, because, funny thing, the thing that you lack that kills you can't be known until not having it kills you, so you cannot and will not ever know what is "necessary" and what is not.

[Anonymous No.10954038]

>>10954001
No, I'm sorry to say I kind of do get it. And I think you can do better. The good days are good. But the bad days feel better. My hope is in the long run I can make the days I do it right feel as good as the days its all wrong.
Do you, just don't hurt anyone.

[Anonymous No.10954172]

>>10954038
It's gotten really cool. I've grown to look up to people like Mick Dodge and Bear Grylls. I've learned some amazing things are possible with your health and physical strength when you eat super healthy. Like salmon and sardines straight out of the can healthy.

[Anonymous No.10954181]

>>10949805
>then the whole what about that revolutionary drug somewhere in the amazon that may or may not even be there argument it seems like an idiotic approach too since drugs can be designed from the ground up

There is no reason to devise a synthesis for some complicated biomolecule when you can derive it from a plant and figure out whether it even passes in vitro and animal studies.

The first total synthesis of paclitaxel took 31 years after the initial discovery of its anti-cancer effects. Imagine how dumb it would have been to synthesize such a crazy molecule and have it not actually work?

[Anonymous No.10954188]

I don't think it's fair to draw a utility from the environment at whatever cost to the environment. That's not really a fair exchange.

[Anonymous No.10954194]

>>10954188
human existence draws utility from the environment at a cost to the environment. there's no way to make that sort of statement as a modern human and have it not be hypocritical

[Anonymous No.10954197]

>>10954194
Not necessarily

[Anonymous No.10954200]

>>10954197
maybe the exception is if you're a hermit living in a rural homestead. but you're posting on 4chan so clearly that doesn't apply

[Anonymous No.10954205]

>>10954200
You're going to have to source that claim. Carbon footprint water footprint etc.

[Anonymous No.10954207]

>>10954200
you can be a hermit in an apartment in any town or city

[Anonymous No.10954211]

>>10954205
you don't think your computer, your dinner, your car, and your house create carbon dioxide and use freshwater?

when was the last time you planted a tree?

[Anonymous No.10954212]

>>10954211
cuntpaste

[Anonymous No.10954213]

>>10954212
A+ post

[Anonymous No.10954240]

>>10954194
>human existence draws utility from the environment at a cost to the environment.
sure but some humans are bloated fucking CONSUUUUUUUUMERS (like you)
and their existence draws significantly more utility from the environment, so much so that they're actually literally a threat to the environments long term viability and therefore a threat to other humans' long term viability

[Anonymous No.10954244]

>>10954240
>sure but some humans are bloated fucking CONSUUUUUUUUMERS (like you)

bruh, I struggle to hit 1800 calories on a daily basis because of my work schedule. project your fat ass on someone else's life.

[Anonymous No.10954251]

>>10954244
ya but you drive a lifted f350 diesel, haul your boat around, have six kids and 4 beach vacations per year, you bloated fucking CONSUUUUUUMER
it would unironically be better for the environment if you were an actual obese lardass

[Anonymous No.10954253]

>>10954251
I bike to work because highly-populated urban city lol

>have six kids and 4 beach vacations per year

you think I've got money for that? do you know how much research science actually pays lol?

[Anonymous No.10954257]

>>10954253
>NOM NOM NOM NOM

[Anonymous No.10954263]

>>10954257
can I see 'consumer_.jpg' exhibits 2-thru-4 and 6-thru-18?

[Anonymous No.10954269]

>>10954263
I collect pictures of extreme lardasses stuffing their faces (and the metaphorical consumerism equivalent). What of it?

[Anonymous No.10954275]

>>10954269
why not go in sequence?

[Anonymous No.10954277]

>>10954275
Because you disgust me.

[Anonymous No.10954281]

>>10954277
can I see number 14? I bet that one is a banger.

[Anonymous No.10954284]

>>10954281
14 is actually quite excellent
You have good taste in consumers.

[Anonymous No.10954323]

>>10954284
im not disappointed