Quantcast
[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Support us on Patreon!

/sci/ - Science & Math


View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 129 KB, 640x808, 722a88959014c99f9a09bd307606529c.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10886504 No.10886504 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

not only it would be cheap but also it have as many advantages as it has disadvantages.
you unironically can float in there with fucking air and at 50km to 53km it has earth conditions minus air.
you can harvest the damn CO2 into making material to build your own shit and even create more homes or rooms.
hell you have unlimited energy through fucking solar alone.
if you made your own zeppelin home, you could live without any troubles and also relax as you let the probes do the work.
you could live there in peace for the rest of your days.
you have your own aquaponic farm to make your diet more varied and have a good computer to handle all type of games and cartoons.
living on venus would be ideal and no stupid normies there since they wouldn't handle it.

>> No.10886521

But if the balloon pops, then you'll literally go down to Hell

>> No.10886541

>>10886504
what about turbulence and storms though? They could lift a colony too high causing it to pop or maybe the wind shear could be strong enough damage it. We don't know enough about the weather to determine if we can build a balloon colony. We also need to characterize the atmosphere a bit better at that altitude for ISRU. There's a weird UV absorber in the clouds that some people say is life, but is probably ferric chloride.

>> No.10886545

>>10886504
>cheap
fucking kek
>you can harvest the damn CO2 into making material to build your own shit and even create more homes
If those homes are made of 100% carbon and you're willing to spend at lease one order of magnitude more energy than you'd get from a kilo of gas for every kilo of construction material. You wouldn't be that much better off using the less common stuff.
Wind turbines would probably produce a fair amount of power, but for the same reason would have to be maintained constantly. The corrosive atmosphere would just be the cherry on top.
>solar
fucking kek
>relax and let the probe do the work
>you have your own aquaponic farm to make your diet more varied and have a good computer to handle all type of games and cartoons.
Why don't you do that on earth?

>> No.10886546

>>10886504
Sure you would buddy.... sure you would.

>clamp
It's Earth for you, slave.

>> No.10886571

>>10886521
not really, if you are around 50km to 55km then the pressure is just like earth in land, since CO2 is heavier than air then it won't explode, just have a leak that you can easily patch.
if you are proactive and think ahead its easy to prepare for everything.

>> No.10886579

>>10886571
Under regular conditions sure, during storms you're fucked.

>> No.10886580

>>10886545
if you have a really big airplane you can harvest material from the surface. If the airplane's really big it doesn't need to be made of entirely heat resistant materials because the thermal mass is high enough.
>>Wind turbines
Are you mentally retarded? Your colony is going to be moving with the wind, meaning you can't harvest any wind power. And in fact it is quite desirable that your colony move with the wind, as a Venusian day is 243 Earth days long. However, the winds circulating the planet can make this trip in something close to an Earth day.
>>solar
Venus is closer to the sun, so the amount of power we can generate per m^2 can be higher.
>>10886571
and what about storms m8? There could be storms at that altitude that could rip up colonies.
>>10886579
whether or not storms are a problem is an open question. We don't have enough data.

>> No.10886585
File: 234 KB, 657x527, 1531882281797.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10886585

>>10886580
>if you have a really big airplane you can harvest material from the surface. If the airplane's really big it doesn't need to be made of entirely heat resistant materials because the thermal mass is high enough.
>Are you mentally retarded?
pot, kettle, etc

>> No.10886586
File: 35 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10886586

>>10886541
I would accept the price and risks if I could, in fact, I accept them and will become a human sacrifice.
taking 1 way ticket to that hell to ensure a viable colony and future.
I wouldn't regret it if it meant to give you and many others a chance to live in another planet, I'll study everything and ensure that it'll be safe.
probes constantly sending data and analyzing every single risk, see a way to overcome them and go ahead.
I'll use everything to survive and thrive.
I wouldn't mind dying there even.
without reckless people taking risk, we would become stagnant and die.
imagine how much we would accelerate in planetary exploration if we took that risk and payed the price, what would seem like a distant future would be soon.

>> No.10886590

>>10886580
>Your colony is going to be moving with the wind
they're called tethers, you imbecile.
>Venus is closer to the sun
It also has the highest albedo in the solar system.
From clouds
In large part above you.

>> No.10886598

>>10886586
They're are more worthwhile risks with larger payoffs, like mars. There's no future on venus until we somehow find a way to exploit the surface, until then they'll always be fucked if earth stops supporting them to some degree for whatever reason. We haven't even mined a near earth asteroid yet, lets start with that.

>> No.10886603

>>10886580
Also why would storms be any less of a problem on venus than earth? The wind speeds much higher, with a denser atmosphere. Even just an updraft would be an updraft of very high temperature gas.

>> No.10886618

>>10886545
>cheap
I'll give you that, it won't but it would be worth it in the long term.
>If those homes are made of 100% carbon and you're willing to spend at lease one order of magnitude more energy than you'd get from a kilo of gas for every kilo of construction material.
so be it, a challenge of the many more that will come, I'll find a way to make it easier.
>You wouldn't be that much better off using the less common stuff.
then we'll use them, they already use less common stuff on mars, why not? too expensive? it didn't stop them.
let me guess, in case it fails or something happens? where the hell will you get more? thats when you have to improve or have saved resources for that situation.
>Wind turbines would probably produce a fair amount of power, but for the same reason would have to be maintained constantly. The corrosive atmosphere would just be the cherry on top.
something to keep you busy and do actual work, I couldn't afford to be lazy or I'll die so gladly I'll make mantention and have some kind of protection coated in the turbines...or simply use the damn wind.
>Solar
or use the acid there to make batteries or something.
>>10886579
>Under regular conditions sure, during storms you're fucked.
I know, I would think of something and prepare myself for it.
I would remain myself in a wind current that is stable and constant, letting the probes do the exploration and deal with the storms ahead.
>>10886580
>and what about storms m8? There could be storms at that altitude that could rip up colonies.
but not a normal ship or plane, there had to be a safe route there and make the colonies remain in that remotely safe place.

>> No.10886623

>>10886618
>then we'll use them, they already use less common stuff on mars
What? I mean for building stuff, using the nitrogen/sulfur dioxide and trace gases, I was just saying you'd have a hard time doing anything useful with them.
>or use the acid there to make batteries or something.
Yeah, batteries, you'd need something to generate the power. You'd also need metals for the electrodes.
>I would remain myself in a wind current that is stable and constant
There might be, I don't know, but from a superficial wiki analysis the atmosphere seems chaotic as hell.

>> No.10886629

>>10886585
It's a really big airplane and we needn't spend much time on the ground if we're just scooping stuff up. Also by the square cube law, surface area to volume ratios decrease with volume, meaning heat transfer becomes less of a problem as
>>10886586
anon, if a colony made from carbon fucking nanotubes can't last a couple of days without getting torn apart by a storm then it is probably
>>10886590
>> tethers
And what do you make the tether out of? Your tether has to withstand high temperature and clouds of sulfuric acid while bearing it's own weight, drag force, and load of the colony. Landis, who is the main proponent of Venus colonization recommends carbon fucking nanotubes. We don't have any tethers on earth that go that high. If you tether your colony, sure you can generate a lot of power with wind, but then it needs to be a goddamn kite.
>>In large part above you.
and you still get about the insolation you get on earth:
http://media.cleveland.com/science_impact/other/Landis%20Venus%20atmospheric%20flight%20study%202002.pdf
>>10886603
>>The wind speeds much higher
in any sane proposal the colony moves with the wind, so the colony will see an air speed of zero. The issue is that the wind speed might not be the same across the colony, meaning we could get unequal wind force that tears it apart.
>>updraft would be an updraft of very high temperature gas
you probably ain't going to get a high temperature updraft going up 50 fucking kilometers. The main issue with updrafts is the colony getting blown so high that it pops. This is how most airships on earth that got caught in storms crashed. They got so high that their gas bags pop, they lost buoyancy and crashed.

>> No.10886637

>>10886598
>they'll always be fucked if earth stops supporting them to some degree for whatever reason.
indeed but I wonder how much it could last? because with aquaponics and inner farms inside some weird zeppelin-like motorhomes and using the CO2 to create carbon and polymers may give them a edge here in survival for a long period of time.
that without counting the deuterium on venus, if they somehow harvest that and copy the design of the reusable rockets of spacex, then the venusians would rise above and become their own independent nation and race.
it'll be an australian tier shithole.
the odds are low but there could be the chance that venusians could become independent if they play the cards right in that situation.

>> No.10886643

>>10886629
whoops meant to say: It's a really big airplane and we needn't spend much time on the ground if we're just scooping stuff up. Also by the square cube law, surface area to volume ratios decrease with volume, meaning heat transfer becomes less of a problem as our airplane gets bigger
>>10886618
>> protection coated in the turbines...or simply use the damn wind
protection is the least of your worries for wind turbines. Even dealing with the high wind speeds isn't much of a problem, ram air turbines which provide auxiliary electric power on airplanes are an example of how to do this. The issue is that in order to harness wind power you need a tether tens of kilometers long going to the surface. I am doubtful any materials exist which are capable of doing this
>>but not a normal ship or plane, there had to be a safe route there and make the colonies remain in that remotely safe place.
ummmm... what? You're in the fucking clouds, the weather could damn well change in the place your airship is. We don't know if any safe places exist or not. There is very little data to work with here.

>> No.10886651

>>10886623
>There might be, I don't know, but from a superficial wiki analysis the atmosphere seems chaotic as hell.
indeed it must be but there have to at least 1 stable curren where you can remain safe and stable.
>What? I mean for building stuff, using the nitrogen/sulfur dioxide and trace gases, I was just saying you'd have a hard time doing anything useful with them.
...maybe we need to mine phobos and deimos first to get down the asteroid harvest experience we lack.
then use venus as a hub to send robots to mercury and use the planet metals to venus and earth, using the exponential growth through solar energy and robots, we may make a stable and actual viable solution to the lack of metals.

>> No.10886653

>>10886643
>There is very little data to work with here.
thats why we sent probes first and then we start talking about inhabiting the hellish planet.

>> No.10886662
File: 340 KB, 700x700, d502rhv-c5ebbcb2-1b7e-45ab-9ea9-589df25f9b6a.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10886662

>tfw we are actually discussing of how would humans live on venus and the problems they would dealt with
>tfw there are people up for the challenge of living in the clouds of literal hell

>> No.10886664

>>10886629
>And what do you make the tether out of?
The same thing you'll make your magical airplane out of. IFLS tier "muh thermal mass and muh square cube law" isn't a magic wand and definitely will not matter much for a trip lasting several hours in 400+ degree Celsius whether, id like to see some calculation for a frame design that can do that while being mobile enough to raise several 10s of kilometers with a cargo you mined god knows how (it's not like in ksp where you just shove a drill into the ground, but even that would be nearly impossible in those conditions)
>carbon fucking nanotube
You'd probably just need a variant of carbon fiber that's resistant to that corrosive atmosphere. It's not a fucking space elevator.
>and you still get about the insolation you get on earth:
Yeah, not higher, and they're hardly viable at all on earth. And forget the magical price figures for them you'll find on some chart, any grid composition in a first world country will tell you that much.
The only real advantage on venus is that all the clouds might ironically help in the sense that the scattering of light might make the output more consistent.
Now, if you're free floating as you suggested, you're fucked as soon as you wind up on the night side.
If you also have engines fighting the extremely slow rotation with engines wouldn't be so bad; fighting the wind that may very well decide to push you on the night side will be fucking impossible if you're in a big air balloon with a massive cross sectional area and a density that's by definition comparable to the atmosphere pushing against you.
>in any sane proposal the colony moves with the wind
What the hell do you think that entails? That means absolutely everything inside that shelter will experience the constant change in speed associated with turbulence, or updrafts, or even worse downdraft.(cont)

>> No.10886673

>>10886504
And how would you launch from Venus, considering it is an Earth sized planet

you would need a huge two stage rocket to get back into space

Venus is a trap and we will have colonies in outer solar system before anyone seriously thinks about colonizing it

>> No.10886674

>>10886629
(Cont)
And that's beside the fact that the air is a fluid, and your balloon will experience lots of drag. That immediately implies some form of pressure difference between the different parts of the craft. Higher speed, larger difference, which at some point could rupture it. But more likely it will just wreck shit up inside the balloon as it moves around or cook everyone inside if it's ever pulled downward deep enough in the atmosphere.

>> No.10886688

>>10886673
This, and that's the long term problem of "what's the fucking purpose of a venus colony?", that's past the problem of just building a self sustaining colony.

>> No.10886695

>>10886673
>And how would you launch from Venus, considering it is an Earth sized planet
if you calculate it right and have enough information on the planet, you could technically "surf" to the ideal spot(50km to 55km above ground level) and release a probe or bases there
>you would need a huge two stage rocket to get back into space
at first, but then there would be a special plataform for reusable rockets
>Venus is a trap and we will have colonies in outer solar system before anyone seriously thinks about colonizing it
indeed but they will still send probes to study the behavior and climate of that planet so that we can have a better idea on how atmospheres on deffirent worlds work

>> No.10886702

>>10886598
I would focus on mars. Nobody is going to venus in our natural lifetimes. Once development begins on mars you will see why.

The early oportunities will be on mars and splitting our resources this early is foolish.

>> No.10886714

>>10886702
then studying venus with probes will amount to nothing?
we will have to simply use mars and use the martian moons for asteroid mining?

>> No.10886725

>>10886702
Yeah that makes sense. Low gravity, thin atmosphere (both for take off and I imagine more asteroid collisions more concentrated minerals too), surface reasonably accessible for industrial equipment, reasonable day/night cycle.

>> No.10886840

>>10886643
extending a kite from one air layer to another could EASILY provide the power you need

>> No.10887078

>>10886504
>I would unironically live on venus

So fiction thread? Okay, "I would unironically fuck a harem of virgins." Oh wait, science fiction thread, right, "I would unironically fuck a harem of virgin Mars colonists."

>> No.10887614

>>10887078
fool detected

>> No.10887639

Bump

>> No.10888093

>>10886714
Venus is great. I encourage discussion however I'm getting impatient and mars is the big target currently. I just like to remind people that mars is becoming very real and we should support that goal.

But I like venus and I will tell you a story about why. You can think of the atmosphere as more of... a deep ocean of Co2 with other gasses on top. The Co2 is so thick it becomes some kind of superfluid under its own weight.

Instead of a balloon people will probably sail around on the surface of this sea in ships, not balloons.

>> No.10888135

>>10888093
then sending a probe there would be for the best in order to see everything in that world.
compared to a manned mission to mars, the prices for sending a small probe to venus seem like a good idea in the sense that it will be super cheap.
elon or nasa wouldn't mind at all.

>> No.10888141

>>10888135
I haven't looked into venus for a year or so maybe. However when last I did check the japanese I think had managed to get a satellite into orbit around venus.

After it originally missed and took a detour through the solar system or something.

You should look into it. There might be new data now.

I'm not sure if there are any capabilities to analyze the movement of the Co2 ocean though. For such a study you would need several flocks of balloon probes floating at different layers all through the atmosphere.

>> No.10888175

>>10888141
>For such a study you would need several flocks of balloon probes floating at different layers all through the atmosphere.
exactly.
that would be the first thing to do.
they would scan the whole atmosphere and locate a safe place alongside studying the climate in venus and the behavior of the air currents.
to do so we will need to surf through venus atmosphere and coordinate the speed of the wind and the ship, where they will release the probes.

>> No.10888207
File: 844 KB, 4370x2598, dredging1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10888207

>>10886664
>> id like to see some calculation
I can just pull some numbers out of my ass for this one, but they won't necessarily make any sense. You can cheat a bit though by boiling water to get rid of heat. Although I'm starting to realize that hey you need a decent amount of surface area for lift and that the rocks you're picking up are indeed still hot, so maybe it doesn't work out. There are high temperature polymers that work at these temperatures, but experience degradation over long time periods:
https://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/adv_tech/ballutes/Blut_ppr/vnusmatl.pdf
These have even been used in plastic engines:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine
>>cargo you mined god knows how
I will admit this is insane, but I was thinking of just dredging shit up. Fly near the ground and slow, which you can do cause the atmosphere is fucking dense, deploy a dredge and pick it up once it's full of rocks. Otherwise, we can just mine with remotely controlled robots using silicon carbide electronics..
>>It's not a fucking space elevator.
you need a tether an order of magnitude longer than anything we've ever built. Longest tether I can find is 3 km:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JLENS
Wikipedia does say that there are high end carbon fibers with breaking lengths 250-399 km long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_strength
God knows if they work at these temperatures though.
>>you're fucked as soon as you wind up on the night side
The atmosphere still rotates on the night side, so you just need some batteries or fuel cells. So again, you get a day night cycle close to 4 days if you don't fight the wind
>>fighting the extremely slow rotation with engines wouldn't be so bad
so you have a giant fucking tank at the end of your tether? That's fucking nutty.
>>fighting the wind
which is why you don't fight it.

>> No.10888244
File: 21 KB, 443x499, venus-wind-speeds.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10888244

>>10886664
so a couple other things about a tethered colony. If you tether your colony it has to deal with windspeeds about 210 km/h. This is about twice the speed of the world record for fastest airship. So how do you build a huge aerodynamic structure that can contend with these wind speeds. Landis has proposed lifting goddamn cities with giant balloons, can you do similar with a kite? I don't think you can make a similar sized structure that doesn't move with the wind
>>turbulence, or updrafts, or even worse downdraft.(cont)
is a much bigger problem for your kite. Turbulence shakes planes around because they'll move through some air moving up then suddenly move into some air going down. If you move with the air you don't have the problem of suddenly running into a mass of air moving in a different direction. A free colony at least has a chance of of moving away from a storm system.Although if one has to build propulsive colonies, the case for Venus colonization may well disappear entirely. A storm will come at your tethered colony at ~210 km/h and you will only have so much tether to avoid it.
>>10886674
anon, I don't think you understand that if you move with the wind the air speed is zero. Yes, the winds on venus move around at 210 km/h at this altitude, but if you move with them, then you measure a wind speed of zero. Sure gusts and turbulence might be a problem, but we can't really discuss much due to lack of data.
>>10886840
>> EASILY provide the power
Well then perhaps you can tell me how much? Kite electrical power generation still doesn't work that well on earth. You might need an extremely long tether to get a significant change in wind speed.

>> No.10888258

If you lived on [over] Venus, how would you pay for anything? You'd need to import a constant supply of water from space, and you wouldn't be able to supply anything useful in return.

Venus is not economically viable.

>> No.10888260

>>10887614
You've been huffing too much sci-fi entertainment fumes. This thread does not belong on /sci/. Grow up.

>> No.10888262

>>10888258
you can extract water from sulphuric acid from the atmosphere

>> No.10888268

>>10888262

Oops, okay.

What can a floating venus colony export? Why would someone invest in the enormous upfront costs of building one?

>> No.10888271

>>10888268
it's like Las Vegas but in space

>> No.10888294

>>10888268
>What can a floating venus colony export?
deuterium.
carbon based material.
polymers.
acid.
batteries.
knowledge.
a form of cryptocurrency.
to name a few.

>> No.10888303

>>10888268
Carbon shows great potential as a building material. We cannot afford to wait for that technology to develop before expanding into space. Early structures will just use metal and ceramic combinations. Later structures will likely be spun out of carbon fiber filaments suspended in some advanced crystalising resin.

Or something. Venus is late days tech.

>> No.10888306

>>10888260
>grow up
Stop projecting your issues and insecurities here.
Besides nobody here is forcing you to stay, you can always go to another thread if you don't like this discussion.
Also remember when "machines heavier than air couldn't fly" was a thing until those brothers shut that asshole up? that asshole was lord kelvin himself, what that guy though of fiction became reality.

>> No.10888367

>>10888303
>Venus is late days tech.
if we sent probes to its atmosphere those late days would shorten.

>> No.10888370

>It's another retard wants to pretend the hardest planet in the solar system is easy to colonise and just handwaves the issues away thread

>> No.10888371

>>10886504
>you could live without any troubles and also relax as you let the probes do the work.
>living on venus would be ideal and no stupid normies there since they wouldn't handle it.

LOL fucktard normies are the ones who are going to maintain your probes while you live like a spoiled prince. i hope they bully the shit out of you on Venus, nerd

>> No.10888374

>>10888294
>deuterium.
>carbon based material.
>polymers.
>acid.
>batteries.
>knowledge.
>a form of cryptocurrency.
>to name a few.

So you build your city over Venus, I build mine on Earth floating over an erupting volcano. I'd be able to make all of those things and sell them at far cheaper prices. Floating over a volcano is a much more intelegent place for a city then Venus.

Of course Antarctica would have both of us beat.

>> No.10888402

>>10888306
>ye olde "but planes were sci-fi"rebuttal

And, that is where you show that you know fucking nothing about physics, manchild. Go play your video games and watch your trek vids. Leave /sci/ now.

>> No.10888661

>>10888402
>Leave /sci/ now.
or what?

>> No.10888745

>>10888374
>Of course Antarctica would have both of us beat.
now that you mention it...why haven't they use antarctica?

>> No.10888758

>>10886504
Ayo, check this out!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI-old7YI4I

>> No.10888857

>>10888745
>why haven't they use antarctica?

The various nations agreed that getting into a turf war over Antarctica would be a huge money pit, with no payoff for decades, if ever. So instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctic_Treaty_System

>> No.10888936
File: 285 KB, 1440x1440, 1557539052349.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10888936

>>10888758
thank you.

>> No.10888967
File: 67 KB, 720x644, Pepe3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10888967

>>10888936
You're welcome, fren

>> No.10888999

>>10888758

What a bizzare accent. Like southern with a lisp? Where is this guy from? Regrettably, he is hard to listen to.

>> No.10889023

>>10888999
You'll get used to it very quickly, trust me

>> No.10889030

>>10888268
Profits from operating Casinos. Venus is a nice rallying point for moving people an material to the asteroid belt. While the delta V cost is higher, you can reach asteroids faster than you can from Earth or Mars because you have more phasing opportunities. So it's a nice place for asteroid miners to spend their hard earned money...

>> No.10889126

>>10889030
I see where you are going with this.

>> No.10889137

>>10889126
Venus Cloud Blimp Casinos, anon

>> No.10889138

>>10889023

Narrator was born on planet Ourf.

>> No.10889139

Venus - the prostitution planet!

>> No.10889161

>>10889139
Yea, I think those roid miners will have a hard time convincing girls to go out to the belt with them.

>> No.10889201

>>10888207
i.e it doesn't work, complicated machinery will never work for any extended period of time on Venus for quite a while.
Btw, I never had any problem with building a structure that could resist those temperatures, that's why I suggested a tether. The problem is all the delicate machinery and electronics that would be meant to make something like that work, which could most definitely not resist the conditions alone and good luck cooling it.
Not sure what you'd use, but there's definitely materials that should work. Quartz fiber would work, it wouldn't be viable in terms of producing enough of it, but it should work.
>rotates on the night side, so you just need some batteries or fuel cells
Are you fucking insane? You could be stuck on the night side for a very long time, literally whichever way the wind blows.
>so you have a giant fucking tank at the end of your tether? That's fucking nutty.
Fucking what?
>which is why you don't fight it.
Yeah, and the lights go out.
>so a couple other things about a tethered colony. If you tether your colony it has to deal with windspeeds about 210 km/h.
You mean it can make use of that.
>This is about twice the speed of the world record for fastest airship. So how do you build a huge aerodynamic structure that can contend with these wind speeds.
Ok now that you said this don't try to weasel yourself out of this: you're implying the main problem was preventing a structural failure, and not the most like reason which is dealing with all the drag produced by a lighter than air balloon at such speeds.
>is a much bigger problem for your kite.
My what? I mean, I know someone said a kite, but I didn't. I said a tethered lighter than air balloon.
>Turbulence shakes planes around because they'll move through some air moving up then suddenly move into some air going down.

>> No.10889205

>>10886546
Dark.

>> No.10889228

>>10888244
>>10888207
(cont)
> If you move with the air you don't have the problem of suddenly running into a mass of air moving in a different direction.
YOU said, yourself, that the problem airplane have is "they'll move through some air moving up then suddenly move into some air going down"
If you move with the air, that also what will happen to you, literally. I don't have the option of talking more slowly, I really can't do much more for you. Now what do you think happens to the people inside that balloon as it more all over the fucking place?
It's not just that, it will also rotate, and your options to mitigate that are awfully limited. You can have control surfaces which can mitigate it somewhat, you can try to keep you center of mass low which will help somewhat, but other than that there's not much else you can do.
It's not just that. Look, I don't know how to break it to you, but this whole idea of "moving with the air" thing? The way you understood it, isn't going to happen. You're going to respond to the changing air current more rapidly (in most respect a bad thing, see above), but your ship still has some inertia. But if anything the fact that you do move with the air so easily is the largest problem of all with a free floating colony.
>A free colony at least has a chance of of moving away from a storm system.
About the same as having the storm system miss.
>anon, I don't think you understand that if you move with the wind the air speed is zero.
Well, no, but if it were true, it wouldn't deal with the problem you little suggestion has (SEE ABOVE), but if it were true, id look really dumb and stuff.
Now, thing is, 80% of my argument hinges on the fact that "moving" with the air" is exactly what you do not want, so you do look kind of silly when you claim that don't you?
Now, what I did claim is that it is literally impossible for the air velocity around an object to be the same; there's and object in the way. (cont).

>> No.10889277

>>10888207
>>10888244
So you're going to have pressure differences, so you're going to have stresses over your structure. If it's just a rigid, anchored shell who's only job is to float and be a rigid shell that's less of a problem even if the relative air flow velocity is higher on average. But honestly the integrity of the outer structure isn't the real problem, it's all the people inside that would be subject to a perpetually very non inertial reference frame.
> but we can't really discuss much due to lack of data.
The physic doesn't change from the physic on earth, and there's more energy in the system, it's not rocket science.
>Well then perhaps you can tell me how much? Kite electrical power generation still doesn't work that well on earth.
Yeah I guess? I don't particularly care much for kites myself, I think you're confusing two people here.

>> No.10889300

>>10889277
Well I guess if I were to sum things up:
>The very last thing you'd want is to live on venus in a free floating colony. It would have to be secured in place, somehow.
>Airships, like as vehicles, on short term trips through the atmosphere, would probably be mostly fine and dandy. If anything they'd probably be the best way to reach the surface (and come back that is), if at all desirable. You would be nimble enough to avoid storms before they arrive and ensure you remain on the day side if you want to. And even then it will still be quite dangerous, but the thing is is that you wouldn't spend your entire life moving around in that dangerous environment.
>Most important of all, colonizing venus is still a batshit crazy idea, and even if it were successful it would be completely pointless.

>> No.10889355

>>10889161
I think we should focus on sexbots.
if we make them realistic enough, human slavery would be driven obsolete with enough time.
besides they will be cleaner to use than current women and future women so no STD or STI neither space aids.

>> No.10889382

>>10889355
In the future I see old grannies will get their old skin and fat cleaned off the muscle and they will wear a synthetic skin made of electrical sensors and silicon. You will probably get a silicon sexdoll granny who knows all the tricks.

>> No.10889396

>>10889382
that shit sounds like reverse skynet.
I think rich grannies will have the money to pull it off but I doubt the majority will be able to afford it.

>> No.10889863

>>10889201
>>complicated machinery will never work for any extended time period
gas turbine engines operate at hotter temperatures.
>>electronics
which is why I said to use silicon carbide electronics which can operate at that temperature in venusian ambient conditions. We already have actuators and even machines that can operate in Venusian ambient conditions
https://honeybeerobotics.com/portfolio/hottech-venus-motor/
https://honeybeerobotics.com/portfolio/venus-drill/
>>cooling it
with silicon carbide electronics, there's no reason to cool anything
>>stuck on the night side
baka, don't you know of Venus' atmospheric superrotation? The atmosphere on a whole rotates faster than the planet itself. You aren't getting stuck on the night side.
>>drag at such speeds
are you a complete retard? Do you not understand that if you move with the wind the air speed is zero. This means the drag you experience will be much less!
>>tethered lighter than air balloon
how the fuck do you build a large tethered lighter than air balloon that can contend with winds 210 km/h? As you said, drag force is a problem.

>> No.10889894

>>10889863
>how the fuck do you build a large tethered lighter than air balloon that can contend with winds 210 km/h? As you said, drag force is a problem.
what about something similar to a zeppelin? like a egg shell designed in a way that can go with the flow of the wind, you said it yourself, if you move with the wind then your speed is zero.
what about something armored but still rubbery, like a beehive and a eggshell.
it would be like a lung in some way but I am sure if it is armored and rubbery at the same time, it will withstand anything, even storms.

>> No.10890024

>>10888758
a really interesting comment seen there

>If you build a cloud city big enough, it doesn't actually have to be light.
>This is something Buckminister Fuller pointed out.
>If you build a geodesic dome large enough, a kilometer or so in diameter, you only need to heat the air inside by about five degrees Fahrenheit to get it to cancel out the weight of the structure itself and float.
>This is assuming a dome made out of steel and glass.
>This is one of those cases where the square-cube law actually works for you rather than against you.
>The structure of the dome is only the surface, but the buoyancy is controlled by the volume; the bigger you build your dome, the greater the payload fraction of the dome is.
>A dome large enough to cover Midtown Manhattan (~3.2km) could support the weight of all the buildings in Midtown by raising the internal temperature five degrees and dropping the pressure by one or two percent.
>Again, such a structure would be glass, steel, and concrete in construction.
>You could get away with a city made from carbon and silicates with meter-thick radiation shields with a self-sustaining population of a quarter million people that could float at STP with a breathable atmosphere.
>If you invert the dome, then you have a flat roof you build a runway on; the rest of the surface would be glass embedded with thin cell solar panels to block about half the light, dropping it to Earth normal.
>You could supply all the rest of the power with a nuclear plant hanging from the bottom of the dome.
>You could put a relatively small and light shadow shield above it to protect the city.
>One hundred twenty-five of these domes would give you the population of Canada or the UK; that's plenty enough to have a self-sustaining civilization.

how feasible is this?

>> No.10890421

Bump

>> No.10890425

>>10886504
Harvest CO2, so you will have walls at -78°C

>> No.10890446

>>10890425
thats what people here been talking about and in fact building floating habitats will be ideal

>> No.10890504

>>10890024
With our current understanding of the venus atmosphere I would say moderately feasible.

I can see air currents and turbulence causing problems. You would need to deal with the structure getting coated in ices or rain.

It makes me nervous to think of floating around atop a superheated superdense ocean of Co2. I can't imagine the horror of being on a ship that was sinking in an invisible ocean.

Still, lifeboats are a thing and not everybody died on the titanic.

>> No.10890522
File: 67 KB, 801x474, Atlas_p-body_concept05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10890522

>>10890504
what would be the ideal size for a base there?
and what would be the ideal biggest there?
a football field?

>> No.10890610

>>10886504
>i would unironically live in an imaginary sci-fi world where we have no problems
wouldnt we all want to live in an imaginary world you fucking retard.

>> No.10890767

>>10890522
Why not simply blanket the entire Co2 ocean in a layer of interconnected floating islands. After ten thousand years or so the Co2 might turn to ice.

Venus would be a totally different world then.

>> No.10890777

>>10890610
I think he meant living there would give him purpose and solving the problems would make that place heavenly
like videogames, it gave many men and boys hope and a purpose

>> No.10890791
File: 236 KB, 803x525, thedailydot-guide-to-the-world-of-4chan-beyond-b 0.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10890791

I'd do it ironically

>> No.10890857
File: 453 KB, 1516x765, guts.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10890857

>>10890610
> we all want to live in an imaginary world

>> No.10890880

>>10890767
it haven't changed at all for billions of years and I doubt human living in floating cities on venus would change the planet except for our own bacteria and viruses evolving to become extremophiles after thousands of years from humans living there and launching their deceased to the planet as a form of cheap cremation

>> No.10890886

>>10890767
>Why not simply blanket the entire Co2 ocean in a layer of interconnected floating islands.
thats the main idea with floating cities...

>> No.10890902
File: 77 KB, 887x1097, 80d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10890902

How would you take a shit on venus?
We aren't just going to go outside and let the hell below burn it?
How would bathrooms work and how would you make a damn bathroom on that place?

>> No.10890976
File: 228 KB, 900x900, CCCP.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10890976

>>10890902
> We aren't just going to go outside and let the hell below burn it?
I don't see why not

>> No.10890982

>>10890976
no, you'll want to turn it into fertilizer or something

>> No.10891008

>>10890982
oh, I get it

>> No.10891009

>>10890902
>>10890976
with what are we going to wip our asses with if we went there?
from where are we going to get something to clean up our asses? there is no toilet paper there

>> No.10891080
File: 74 KB, 1024x532, ship.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891080

>>10891009
We ship it along with the rest of the cargo

>> No.10891104

>>10891080
please take your name off

>> No.10891132

>>10891104
where do you see my name? I don't see it anywhere

>> No.10891137
File: 42 KB, 724x500, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891137

>>10891132

>> No.10891143
File: 33 KB, 535x535, where.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891143

>>10891137
I still don't see it

>> No.10891222
File: 1.13 MB, 1300x900, landis_balloon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891222

>>10889894
if it's tethered you'll need to contend with some pretty enormous drag forces. It is very difficult to make a large aerodynamic colony than it is to make a balloon.
>>10890024
You don't need radiation shielding at the altitude you'd build a colony at. density at 53 km's about 1.36 kg/m^3, so just a bit denser than air. Go do the math yourself. But keep in mind to stay aloft your colony must have a density less than the atmosphere. The more your balloon masses, the less shit you can lift like machinery for life support and factories. Even if you make it out of steel or what not, because it is so large and the wind forces are over such a large area the stress the shell might have deal with could be enormous.

>> No.10891227

>>10888936
That is a reddit meme made by a braindead cumbrain that can't discern higher and lower pleasures.

>> No.10891241
File: 136 KB, 710x823, RnM fan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891241

>>10891227
> Wow, look at me, I am so smart because I criticize people for the reaction pics that they use. I am so much more superior to those braindead cumbrains. Yeah, that's right, I'm not braindead at all, I'm a genius, a god!

>> No.10891262
File: 84 KB, 572x590, No thank you, no founding fathers or enlightment bullshit for me..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891262

>>10891241
Correct.

>> No.10891267

>>10891241
must have struck a nerve to be this upset.

>> No.10891271

>>10891222
>The more your balloon masses, the less shit you can lift like machinery for life support and factories.
what if it doesn't have to come up with giant balloons?
is a swarm of smaller objects viable?
like a group of airships coordinated through computers?
the biggest thing there could be a group of 5 to 10 zeppelins with different functions and the "houses" being just aerostats as a small beginning
then after a while I am sure the people in that swarm could gain valuable experience and information that will allow them to figure out how to make a big expansion
>Even if you make it out of steel or what not, because it is so large and the wind forces are over such a large area the stress the shell might have deal with could be enormous.
what is armored but rubbery at the same time? what type of material could be resistant enough to withstand pressure and blows but also be capable of withstanding stress? something similar to oobleck in behavior
oobleck behaves like a liquid but upon receiving impacts or blows it becomes a solid
so what we would need to have a big floating station is a type of rubber who can pull it off and be capable of withstanding the pressure and the stress, it must be capable of behaving similar to a lung or a muscle
internally it should be just fibers but it has to be protected by a thick "skin"

>> No.10891275
File: 390 KB, 1918x1080, ZB2PMlY.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891275

>>10891227
how about now your majesty?

>> No.10891278
File: 61 KB, 381x381, reigen.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891278

>>10891267
It's not that I'm upset but maybe people shouldn't go out of their way to insult people for their choice in reaction pics

>> No.10891279
File: 500 KB, 1280x720, 1565858805548.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891279

>> No.10891284
File: 161 KB, 540x527, ok.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891284

>>10891279
> this

>> No.10891292

>>10891278
doesn't compare how much you went out of your way in all this.

>> No.10891296

>>10891292
he attacked that other person first, completely unprovoked

>> No.10891323

>>10891271
>>is a swarm of smaller objects viable?
that depends on whether they can station keep with respect to each other. I strongly suspect that if you need any propulsion at all or are unable to build large colonies that the case for venus disappears entirely. I think that in order to make Venus colonies successful you need to carry out large scale atmospheric mining which means putting big plastic nets in the clouds to capture the cloud droplets. If such large plastic nets can't last a long time in the atmosphere before getting destroyed then Venus colonization might not be worth it.
>>something similar to oobleck in behavior
won't help at all. You need something that can deal with the continuous stress of supporting a fucking city. Obleck flows under continuous stress.
>>rubbery
again, you've got a fucking city hanging off of it. How does it remain rubbery without being stretched to its limits?

>> No.10891333
File: 223 KB, 970x765, graphene.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891333

>>10891323
> If such large plastic nets can't last a long time in the atmosphere before getting destroyed then Venus colonization might not be worth it.
Carbon nanotubes and/or graphene might solve that problem

>> No.10891360
File: 19 KB, 375x285, 152554623462.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891360

>>10891275
>>10891278
It's telling of porn addiction, or worse actual or latent homosexuality and exposes the poster as such. To not speak is to condone it, which I will not do. Imagine reacting to something other than a woman and the first thing you think is "DUDE I GOT A HARD ON"—it indeed is telling of a poor mind, and short of preference falsification, meme-tier memetics , it is only explainable by those two hypotheses Peers I've once known have echoed such 'reactions' not as memes but vocalized in person, the words aforequoted. Not one has ever become a friend and I began to dissociate from them completely after hearing that. They were effeminate, very annoying individuals, both traits called out by Aristotle on numerous occasions as being antithetical to virtue. Virtue, being the ultimate and only good, is worthy of being expounded upon, and its enemies worthy of rebuke. You on the other hand, are exposed for the level of filth you are, and have no recourse, no justification and merely seeth.
>>10891296
If you are looking for a safespace, please venture over to www.reddit.com

>> No.10891377
File: 32 KB, 204x213, reigen3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891377

>>10891360
Fine, I'm done arguing, let's go back to the topic at hand.

>> No.10891390

>>10891333
>>graphene
meme material. Anything more than a couple sheets is just graphite.
>>carbon nanotubes
strong macroscale carbon nanotubes are pure fantasy at this point. I'll concede that there are colossal carbon tubes which have a nice macroscale specific strength, but we cannot as of yet make them longer than a couple of centimeters or in very large quantities
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_carbon_tube
At the current time it's difficult to make any 'nano'-materials at scale.
>>10891360
as your post does not appear to be on topic, I must encourage you to have consensual sexual intercourse.

>> No.10891396
File: 15 KB, 640x600, prism-hex7_43131_md.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891396

>>10891323
we can make rigid aircrafts that can withstand a lot of pressure and cover for a lot of the problems that could arise in venus
rigid aircrafts like nazi zeppelins could be ideal for the swarm
then if we somehow build a hexagonal prism in the correct way, we could use the shape to our advantage and evenly distribute the weight to make the whole thing buoyant and firm enough to withstand the pressure
using hexagonal prism like structures as blocks to build a stable big sized colony may be what will give us the edge and be capable of expansion
the swarm could "sew and web" the "skeleton" of the structure and since hexagons are the ideal and perfect shaped figure to build

>> No.10891399
File: 757 KB, 500x374, future.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891399

>>10891390
> but we cannot as of yet make them longer than a couple of centimeters or in very large quantities
We shouldn't assume that technology will stay the same when we finally get to Venus

>> No.10891446
File: 54 KB, 1143x616, venus.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891446

All of this talk of colonization is great, but we should also talk about the next step: Terraforming. How do we feasibly terraform Venus?

>> No.10891458

>>10891396
>>withstand a lot of pressure
how much? Can you provide numbers? And said nazi zepps certainly couldn't go much faster than ~100 km/h. There have also been numerous airship accidents where they were damaged by storms. Rigid airships tend to be prone to their gas cells popping when carried in updrafts above their pressure limits. Without any numbers your proposal isn't worth considering.
>>10891399
by assuming materials we don't have today you are basically assuming magic.

>> No.10891470

first build a dome on earth with all of the above and see how long you last

>> No.10891474
File: 41 KB, 624x351, tubes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891474

>>10891458
I'm not saying anything about new materials
Anon had conceded that there are colossal carbon tubes which have a nice macroscale specific strength, but we simply don't have the technology to mass produce them...yet

>> No.10891480
File: 82 KB, 1024x768, venus2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891480

>>10891470
Venus is completely different from Earth

>> No.10891512

>>10891480
that picture's shooped.

>> No.10891522

>>10891480
looks cumfy, i guess
if you're fucking retarded

>> No.10891524
File: 62 KB, 998x500, venus3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891524

>>10891512
Well obviously, it's an artist's rendition of a much lower quality image that, I assure you, is 100% real
(<-- see there)

>> No.10891529

>>10891522
If you read OP's post, you would know that we won't have to live on the surface any time soon

>> No.10891566

>>10891458
>how much? Can you provide numbers?
not him.
it depends on the altitude.
the airship gains height the lifting gas expands as the surrounding atmospheric pressure reduces, if the airship climbs beyond this it is necessary to vent gas in order to prevent the gasbags from rupturing.
but if we remain at 52km above venusian surface...in theory we could remain buoyant with no problems since the pressure would be similar to the one on earth but a little bit lower.
it'll take me a while to fully calculate the whole thing since I have to take into account that the atmosphere is 96.5% CO2 so you can float there with air, creating different conditions unlike here on earth, since the pressure and temperature are like earth surface around 50km and 55km.
it would be like if it never took flight and remained static on land.
at 52km above the surface there is 0.9 bar in pressure and there is 1 bar on the 50km.
so I say that at 52km it would be ideal for a rigid airship to be.

>> No.10891582

>>10891446
>How do we feasibly terraform Venus?
by putting shades in front of the planet like solar sail.
with enough we could put a shade and remove the heat from the sun...but then the whole planet would cool down and have a carbon ocean, then it will freeze over and we will have a planet covered in dry ice.
from where the fuck we will get water or even hydrogen? how do we clean the whole thing?

>> No.10891593
File: 18 KB, 450x400, venus4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891593

>>10891582
It's all about moderation and restraint, we should use shades but too much that it would freeze the planet over.
Also, we need to figure out a way to fix the magnetic field. As long as that stays down, The Sun will easily erase any progress that we make.

>> No.10891601
File: 367 KB, 2043x1169, venera-cameras.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891601

>>10891524
Nope that's shooped too. All the Venera probes cameras were angled down and couldn't see the horizon except near their scanning extants. So the areas outside of what the cameras scanned were filled in by artists.
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/guest-blogs/2014/0724-standing-on-venus-in-1975.html
Here's the original imagery data:
http://mentallandscape.com/C_CatalogVenus.htm

>> No.10891606
File: 17 KB, 96x298, I messed up.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891606

>>10891601
> Nope that's shopped too

>> No.10891616

>>10891593
...this gave me an idea.
what if we used all that carbon and created an artificial moon made of dry ice? we would just need the dry ice moon be close enough and the rest will be easy.

>> No.10891620
File: 22 KB, 474x474, Pepe2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891620

>>10891616
> created an artificial moon
The resources we would need

>> No.10891622

>>10891566
>if the airship climbs beyond this it is necessary to vent gas in order to prevent the gasbags from rupturing.
and then once the updraft stops, your colony starts to sink. This is also another cause of airship crashes.
>>the pressure
I thought it was clear we were discussing pressure applied to the shell from a wind gust or due to wind shear? I guess this wasn't clear?
>>10891606
it fooled me too anon, it fooled me too.

>> No.10891635
File: 133 KB, 528x321, hugging.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891635

>>10891622
> it fooled me too anon, it fooled me too.

>> No.10891689
File: 133 KB, 962x640, Dragon_Dream.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891689

>>10891622
>and then once the updraft stops, your colony starts to sink. This is also another cause of airship crashes.
dammit.
this whole thing is a damn challenge.
hmm...since its carbon dioxide maybe we could use that to our advantage with some sort of plant like the ones in the carboniferous period to refill the air after we use the emergency air to remain afloat.
plenty of sun and a lot of carbon dioxide to transform may give us a key here.
cyanobacteria also work well on oxygen poor enviroments.
>I thought it was clear we were discussing pressure applied to the shell from a wind gust or due to wind shear? I guess this wasn't clear?
there is currently no airship that could withstand for long the pressure, the dragon dream airship is the closest thing that comes to my mind that would last under those conditions for a while but not for a reasonable amount of time.
the ML 86X may be a good candidate.
I think we need to actually invent a aircraft that could withstand venus.

>> No.10891691

>>10891635
this image just looks gross. like a pile of white maggots or something. dont post it again

>> No.10891705
File: 142 KB, 960x829, cyanobacteria.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891705

>>10891689
> cyanobacteria also work well on oxygen poor enviroments.
Well, the question is: How do we store them? Do we just keep them in open-air containers to allow them to convert the CO2?
After this, we'll still have to engineer the cyanobacteria to be more efficient at converting CO2 as they won't have a lot of space to multiple freely

>> No.10891707
File: 8 KB, 250x238, comeonnow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891707

>>10891691
> being this new
They're called wojaks, newfren

>> No.10891728

>>10891707
I know that. Bunch of naket white guys group hugging though. It's gross. Makes me cringe.

>> No.10891738

>>10891691
>>10891728
this is basedcringe I’m not sure what to make of it really

>> No.10891755
File: 1.31 MB, 410x472, cringes.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891755

>>10891728
> People are not able to have a heart to heart moment if they're white
Now that is cringe

>> No.10891782

>>10891689
>>10891705
Or you can leave some portion of the balloon uninflated so that it doesn't burst when the air expands. Another more difficult option is to modulate the buoyancy by having a gas bag that you can increase the pressure of. By increasing pressure one can increase the density. Of course we don't really know how much of a problem said updrafts or wind gusts are in the first place. Heck it's still a big scientific question whether Venus actually has lightning or not. As for making lifting gas, you'd be better off just splitting water for hydrogen and oxygen, both of which are lighter than the atmosphere of Venus.

>> No.10891799
File: 53 KB, 600x450, venus5.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891799

>>10891782
> it's still a big scientific question whether Venus actually has lightning or not
I feel like we should've figured that out by now. Actually, how do you figure out whether or not a planet has lighting storms?

>> No.10891873

>>10891799
maybe it depends with temperature, chemical composition and pressure
scientist believe that the thunder and lightnings of venus are produce through a clash of wind currents and creating enough friction to make electricity through sulfuric acid
the only reason that comes to my mind is that there may be a little bit of ferric chloride that reacts with sulfuric acid that could cause energy discharges
remember that 96% of venus atmosphere is CO2 so maybe sulfuric acid and iron chloride behaves different in that enviroment

>> No.10891899

>>10891799
Yes venus has shown signs of something like lightening but afaik it is still unconfirmed. Storms are rare just like clouds I think.

>> No.10891924
File: 68 KB, 840x852, 20180113_ir2_20160904_170212_174_l2b_v10_PseudoRGB_f840.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891924

Akatsuki is the Japanese satellite currently studying Venus. It spent five years drifting in space before it was pushed into Venus orbit.

Have a picture.

>> No.10891965
File: 29 KB, 640x480, Elysion.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10891965

>>10891924
it looks superb, to think that something so pretty can hide hell itself.
if a fully functional flying colony its settled on venus someday, I hope they call it elysium.
it would be fitting since that colony would be like a paradise and below it would be the real version of hell.
that colony would be a place of science and were scientist will indulge in their jobs.

>> No.10892232

>>10886504
> treating Venus as gas giant

>> No.10892237

>>10892232
gas giants are too light to support cloud cities, the best you're going to get is nuclear ramjet probes and trying to scoop He3 and Hydrogen out of the upper atmosphere

>> No.10892864

>>10892237
don't forget about rocket fuel.

>> No.10892961

what could you eat in venus?
would it be feasible to bring aquaponics from earth?

>> No.10893467
File: 1.73 MB, 3264x2448, aquaponics.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893467

>>10892961
yeah, pretty much

>> No.10893471
File: 54 KB, 535x750, adonis.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893471

>>10891965
It won't be the only colony though. What would we call other colonies? I think one other should be called Adonis. What do you think?

>> No.10893517

>>10893471
Adonis has a nice ring to it.
we should make the culture in that colony akin to /fit/, everyone should have a desire to have a perfect body in there and try to be like adonis was.
maybe also be a place where eugenics takes place too.
"the place where you strive for perfection and reach perfection, Adonis, an home and a ideal."

>> No.10893524
File: 1011 KB, 1020x568, pillar men.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893524

>>10893517
<-- This pretty much

>> No.10893535

>>10893467
now...how do we move fish from earth?
I doubt a fish can withstand space travel.
bees will also be needed at some point.
the only animal I think should work and be able to perfectly move from earth to venus or mars would be that frog that can do what cryogenics dreamed of doing.

>> No.10893544
File: 312 KB, 1280x731, 733.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893544

>>10893524
Yes.
Exactly that.
I hope they don't end up death if a genius among them rise above and they demonify him for offering a revolutionary idea for the best of their colony.

>> No.10893559
File: 951 KB, 880x601, o'neill cylinder.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893559

>>10893535
> Genetic Engineering
> O'Neill Cylinders

>> No.10893574
File: 297 KB, 1280x956, pillar men3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10893574

>>10893544
Any more spicy pics of pillar ladies?

>> No.10894017
File: 378 KB, 1920x1536, ryan-reos-screenshot010.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894017

>>10893574

>> No.10894022

>>10893559
only through eugenics is when humans will figure out how to make them.
when we don't have any genetic defects or diseases and be enhanced to the very limits is when will rise as a species.

>> No.10894036
File: 174 KB, 2048x1150, genetic engineering.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894036

>>10894022
true that

>> No.10894068

>>10894017
thanks, any more?

>> No.10894071

>>10894036
the only thing that I find hard is the immune system enhancement.
we will really have a hard time to become tanks.
it wouldn't make sense to become perfect only for a mere virus or bacteria to kill you...
you would need the dna of every single person that survived a lethal disease or something in order to make a perfect immune system.

>> No.10894082
File: 192 KB, 680x512, 30b.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894082

>>10894068
Here's one.

>> No.10894100
File: 15 KB, 600x384, pepe10.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894100

>>10894082
That meme was long dead before it was even alive, it was never funny. Cease this foolishness!

>> No.10894118

>>10894100
Is not the definition of a meme reliant on the notion that it moves between minds, and not merely stagnates within the mind of its author?

>> No.10894122

>>10894100
It's not a meme. It's the truth. And because it's the truth, you hate it.

>> No.10894124

>>10894118
By the time dat boy and other old memes died, they were still moving through the internet. So that definition doesn't really work.

>> No.10894125
File: 264 KB, 952x1344, 1562429772911.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894125

>>10894100
>it was never funny
Nothing funny about something that ruins so much potential in this world.

>> No.10894135

>>10893559
it would be ideal
>>10894071
try adding copper to the iron in the blood, it'll give the same anti-septic properties to human blood
we already harvest the poor horseshow crabs in order to get vaccines
why not get those properties ourselves?

>> No.10894138
File: 62 KB, 320x371, pepe11.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894138

>>10894125
Fine, let's go back to the topic at hand then

>> No.10894140
File: 50 KB, 720x471, nanomachines2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894140

>>10894135
> try adding copper to the iron in the blood
We should do one better
Nanomachines, son.

>> No.10894151

>>10894140
but if anything happens, nanomachines could destroy our bodies through some programming error or become inactive through some kind of EMP
besides the damn space radiation could make people carrying nanomachines sick
it also would make us weaker in the long run and I rather have a badass immune system and have nanomachines implanted as a option
nanomachines are great but it can also make us way too reliant on them, we need both copper-iron blood alongside nanomachines to ensure we will not have a genetic void

>> No.10894168
File: 140 KB, 362x368, 1H8uMEV.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894168

>>10894140
>>10894151
>fucking nanomachines
we should let that to space exploration, the last thing we need to be worried about is a potential computer virus.
though having legit blue blood and nanomachines would make you a literal god it can also have disadvantages.
the copper added into the iron of our blood may have adverse genetic effects that may not be beneficial, you may even become unable to reproduce with other humans unless they have the same blue blood.
and nanomachines will inevitably become the aquiles heel of humanity thanks to us being to shitty to not ruin something good, do you imagine a fucking trojan annihilating humanity? it would be deplorabe if not shameful to be wiped out by our own damn creation...it would suck, so I rather have nanomachines as far away from earth and humanity as possible, the only way we could use nanomachines without worries and at 100% is through space exploration and colonization.

>> No.10894187
File: 7 KB, 250x242, 1487479013399.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894187

>>10894168
>this is why we can't have nice things
>mfw there will always be some fucktard ruining something good for everybody
>mfw we will never be able to use nanomachines and benefit from them 100 percent without certain people constantly trying to kill us with malwares

>> No.10894233

>>10894168
>>10894187
What's stopping us from Mind Controlling everyone(including ourselves) and simply removing the desire to sin. At that point we will be able to overcome anything.

>> No.10894237

>>10894233
because if one could mind control everyone then it is obvious that there will be others who will be able to counter it.
we should just not attempt the mind control thing and simply through eugenics become too smart to sin and behave like animals.

>> No.10894240

>>10886504
You better bring one hell of an air conditioner because of how unbelievably hot it is there

>> No.10894246

>>10894240
that would be vital.

>> No.10894260

>>10894240
The temperatures aren't that bad at high altitudes

>> No.10894271

>>10894237
Why would somebody want to counter anti-sin Mind Control. Doesn't everybody, deep down, want to live in a state without sin?

>> No.10894522

>>10894271
Because also on a deep level, free will is the key of innovation and creativity.
Mind Control in the long term run leads to stagnation and will end up in destruction.
The only way to be free of sin is to be too smart to commit them and have all your needs met, thats why eugenics are so important.
If you are the closest to biological perfection as possible and have all your needs met, then sins becomes pointless since you already have it all.
Its way better to be to smart to be evil and in turn help each other out now that we lack defects and have everything we need.

>> No.10894540

Can someone explain how you can make land float on another planet if we can't even make stuff float on this planet

>> No.10894577

>>10891965
>>10893471
The colonies of Elysium and Adonis, fitting names.
What about the Arcadian Colony? or the Yggdrasil Colony? The arcadians focus on gardens and aquatic life, Yggdrasil is the main center of investigation and its name symbolizing the growth.

>> No.10894707

>>10894540
The same way homeless people build floating islands out of softdrink bottles.

>> No.10894710

>>10894271
Anyone who doesn't have a say in what qualifies as "sin," populist hive-mind genocidal asshole.

>> No.10894727

>>10886662
people live in baltimore

>> No.10894753

how are you gonna make shit out of Carbon and oxygen alone?

>> No.10894785

>>10888262
Sounds true and I went to university

>> No.10894830
File: 649 KB, 1920x1080, uo0f8u3adejtyifi6jcl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894830

>>10894753
Honestly... You don't have to man. Turns out we have the technology to put a pressure vessel on the surface of venus. Not that you need to put a person down there with robotics.

The temperature becomes the primary hurdle with surface exploitation at 500°c.

It doesn't need to be this difficult. We can just use explosives or kinetic energy devices to pulverise an opencut mine.

Vessels like Co2 ocean diving submarines will dredge this material in bulk and haul it up to industrial islands floating higher up.

Everything just uses gas as ballast instead of air.

>> No.10894836

>>10894830
What's going to power the vessel? We're not getting tesla waves all the way to venus

>> No.10894905

>>10894836
That example is of colonisation stage capabilities. Assume you already have a major habitat floating above you. It is the size of a small city.

You can use an umbilical tether but you would be much better off with small modular nuclear. It's "on the horizon". With one of those you could power the compressors and an active cooling system.

>> No.10894912
File: 89 KB, 452x428, d4481057.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10894912

>saturn has 1G like earth
>mars and mercury have the same gravity
>the sun has 25G or some shit
I wonder what it would be like to drive a bike on the moon.

>> No.10895484
File: 29 KB, 741x568, pepe7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10895484

>>10894710
I don't know man, but something tells me that everybody agrees that putting a computer virus into nanorobots to kill everybody is a pretty bad thing to do.

>> No.10895492
File: 67 KB, 640x436, motorcycle.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10895492

>>10894912
I've heard somewhere that moon dust is charged with static electricity and would easily destroy unprotected machinery. It's much better to ride a bike on Mars

>> No.10895558
File: 11 KB, 239x210, keks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10895558

>>10894727
> people live in baltimore

>> No.10895717
File: 765 KB, 498x432, Dio_KEK.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10895717

>>10894727
>people live in baltimore

>> No.10896286
File: 130 KB, 900x542, ITER.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10896286

>>10894905
>small modular nuclear
You mean one of these?

>> No.10896591

>>10886504
How would you "ironically" live on a planet?

>> No.10896612
File: 300 KB, 1005x755, 68747470733a2f2f6b36312e6b6e332e6e65742f746172696e67612f422f442f352f442f382f412f496e666f5f5365742f3639312e706e67.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10896612

>>10896286
Here, have a spoon. (I have no idea if this is the best option available). I don't want to wait for LFTR stuff.

It raises interesting questions about non-proliferation and some people on earth don't want a bunch of mad scientists roaming the solar system with nuclear reactors.

It's all going to need to be heavily regulated and, inevitably, enforced.

>> No.10896756

>>10896612
Nuclear Reactors aren't actually as dangerous as people make them out to be
see here(skip to 9:37) --> https://youtu.be/lL6uB1z95gA?t=578

>> No.10896763
File: 92 KB, 1280x720, gods.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10896763

>>10896591
We will probably never be able to fully comprehend the intricacies of OP's mind

>> No.10896788

Why is the atmosphere in Venus so dense? It's not due to gravity, and heat must only be part of the story

>> No.10896799
File: 240 KB, 1402x935, venus atmosphere.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10896799

>>10896788
It's simply thicker, that's all that there is to it

>> No.10896868

>>10896799
No, it's not simply thicker, there is an underlying reason why and im asking what that is.
The surface of Venus has 91atm pressure at .9g from nearly entirely co2
Why?

>> No.10896897

>>10896591
Living on namek.
Also venus is like literally a hell world.

>> No.10896902

>>10896868
we don't truly know but one of the reasons must be the composition of the atmosphere itself and because there may be ferric chloride acid somewhere.
we need to launch a probe there to scan the surface.

>> No.10896905

>>10896902
and the atmosphere.
to give us a clue and the answer we seek.

>> No.10896932

>>10896868
There is a lot of Co2. The weight of it all compresses the Co2 into a superconducting fluid.

.9g is irrelevant compared to the sheer amount of Co2 in the atmosphere.

>> No.10896933
File: 173 KB, 2000x1414, akatsuki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10896933

>>10896905
>>10896902
JAXA is currently studying it with their probe, Akatsuki

>> No.10897082

>>10896932
Is there? Not that I'm doubting you but what keeps so many atm of pressure on a planet with .9g and no magnetosphere to stop the solar winds from stripping the atmosphere away

>> No.10897385

>>10897082
The atmosphere IS being stripped away. What is left is mostly the heavier gasses. All or most of the carbon has been baked out of the crust and combined with oxygen as sunlight broke down water and evaporated the hydrogen or something.

It's not like we really know. The heat of the Co2 layer must have prevented liquid water from forming. Clouds got cooked etc. Venus is possibly the remnants of a small inner gas planet.

We were lucky that life sequestered so much carbon within the crust before it got too hot here. That and/or the original makeup of the planets was quite different.

>> No.10897427
File: 29 KB, 640x360, x65j79Td.640x360.9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10897427

>>10896933
but still, I believe that throwing a special probe in the clouds of venus would be the thing that gives us all the answers.
synced with akatsuki and giving the satelite important information inside and outside of venus clouds.
what if akatsuki cannot see important and interesting stuff inside venus? things that akatsuki cannot detect.
having a probe inside and akatsuki outside would give us a perfect view of the planet and its behavior, composition and how it ended up the way it currently is.
a weather balloon or in this case a rigid ballon would be the thing that will give us a forecast of the climate on venus and its erratic behavior, with akatsuki complimenting it...we would have an actual clear look at another planet atmosphere and behavior.
I can only imagine the information and secrets held in that planet.
if it is successful, it will make many powerful companies and countries interested in the behavior of mars atmosphere and a key to make a better colony, alongside getting to study another planet more intimately.
it will also make countries interested in titan.
the rich information and answers given from venus atmosphere will be a step forwards in science and humanity, do you imagine if we found in venus a place were we can form a colony? a place on the planet ideal for someone to go there?
or even more interesting...what if we can't live there because there is a lifeform living there or the conditions make it impossible? it will give us an answer sending a probe there.
also as a bonus we get to map venus accurately.

>> No.10897593

>>10897385
this makes me wonder what would it been if mars and venus formed on opposite sides, like swapping places.
mars forming where it was supposed to be venus and viceversa.
would mars become another mercury? would venus had been a mini-neptune or a dry-iced planet?
or maybe would venus had been just a ice ball that would only need heat to be earth-like?

>> No.10897706

>>10897593
From what little we know it seems like our solar system is unusual. Current data indicates that most systems have a superearth or gas giant in the goldilocks zone.

Superearths are probably much more like venus than earth. Maybe the water we detect when examining them is a cloud layer above a boiling Co2 ocean. A younger venus.

Planetary geology is very interesting. If I went to uni that would be the only course I'd be interested in.

>> No.10897813

>>10897706
indeed, it fascinates me too now.
planetary geology will become a important part of human history if we don't wip ourselves out of sheer stupidity.
until now, planetary geogology is just speculation, imagination and use the data you got from the planets composition in order to determine its history.
if we sent people to mars I hope it triggers astronomy and all that comes with it into a space floor revolution, fascinate the people with whats outside of our world.
maybe if we sent people to mars and sent a weather balloon/probe hybrid to venus we will manage to do just that.
who knows...do you imagine a cave on mars that have the same pressure of earth? or that venus upon a closer look is actually rich in metals?.

>> No.10898280
File: 607 KB, 1100x1100, europa.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10898280

>>10897427
Plenty of people, including me, are already interested in Venus, Mars, Titan, Europa, and Neptune. It's only a matter of time before we reach them all

>> No.10898457

>>10898280
I hope so too.
ganymede is the planet that everyone forget though.
it has a really thin atmosphere, a magnetosphere and plenty of material to use, it may make going to europa a lot easier.

>> No.10898512
File: 70 KB, 800x800, ganymede.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10898512

>>10898457
oh damn, I never even thought of that

>> No.10898514

The problem with colonizing venus is there's fuck all for the colony to do. They'd basically just be a drain on someone else. Not to mention the inherent problem with being on a floating city is that you can't use the surface to land or take off from as easily as you could any other terrestrial world, with the added benefit of needing an escape velocity close to earth's.
Seems like more trouble than it's worth.

>> No.10898516

>>10898514
I already posted this before, but I feel like it needs to be posted again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BI-old7YI4I
There are many good reasons to set up a colony on Venus

>> No.10898683

>>10886504
>>10886504
wait just one minute, down in the lower right is that an RBMK? Also what happened to this thread? I mean seriously?

>> No.10898798

>>10898683
What do you mean what happened?

>> No.10898820

>>10898683
it evolved from fantasy to how to actually live on venus and overcoming the challenges.
also a RBMK is a good idea to use on venus.

>> No.10898830

>>10898820
>>10898798
I'm talking about the anime girls and nanomachines.

>> No.10898847
File: 41 KB, 340x270, rare pepe4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10898847

>>10898830
We're on 4chan, what did you honestly expect?

>>
Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Name
E-mail
Subject
Comment
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.
reCAPTCHA
Action