/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10819306]

is the whole 'electric universe' theory true, or at least hold any scientific basis? if true, what would the implications of this be on technology?

[Anonymous No.10819307]

>>10819306
electric universe is pseudoscience that only newage retards and pigeon fucking tesla idiots shill

stay toasty brainlets

[Anonymous No.10819311]

>>10819306
D-Do you even know what the theory is?

[Anonymous No.10819318]

>>10819306
No

[Anonymous No.10819372]

inb4 "prove atoms exist"

[Anonymous No.10819395]

>>10819307
Dont forget about the schizo shitposters!

[Anonymous No.10819606]

>>10819306
>if true, what would the implications of this be on technology?
If true, then every single piece of powered technology you use will either use magnets or electricity including "particle accelerators". Communication would also be wireless as well as power transmission...

OH WAIT.

>>10819307
>>10819395
>>10819372

>I will talk bad about this theory on my device that uses electricity.

It never ends this shit.

[Anonymous No.10819672]

>>10819606
anon, believers in normal physics don't claim that electricity doesn't exist. the difference is that normal physics has four fundamental forces: electromagnetic, gravitational, weak nuclear, and strong nuclear. or, more accurately, we have a unified description of electroweak forces and the strong nuclear (color) force, and we are working on getting gravity worked out too. EUtards on the other hand claim gravity doesn't real and nukes don't real, it's all magically happening through electricity, electricity is the only thing that exists, typically with some invocation of the aether, and denying that atoms exist, denying that subatomic particles exist, and often (since if you get them to think about it, they admit that simply can't work to explain e.g. the sun) they go and talk about panpsychism and how the sun is conscious and that's why it works. so it basically is not only pseudoscience but also invoke magical newage crap too.

[Anonymous No.10819673]

>>10819606
theory of electromagnetism=/=electric universe """""theory"""""

[Anonymous No.10819690]

Death of Einstein's space-time gravity model. Rebirth of Nikola Tesla's electrogravitic model (Dynamic Theory of Gravit 1938).

Basically anti-gravity technology. If you read through any major UFO incident database, you'll find lots of electrostatic observations. Coincidence?

[Anonymous No.10819696]

>>10819690
>Dynamic Theory of Gravit 1938
>http://www.stannet.ne.jp/kazumoto/tesla-gravity.pdf
>those pictures
>not a single equation or logical relation
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Anonymous No.10819700]

>>10819696
>only two references
>both are for "Occult Ether Physics"
the absolute state of tesla niggers

[Anonymous No.10819710]

>>10819306
SAFIRE project ran into anomalous excess energy spikes that contained more power than nuclear reactors. They are on to something bigger than plain fusion and it could be the legendary zeropoint energy field. Zeropoint energy is a possibility. Take a look at the Chernetski Plasmatron and Correa PAGD device for some history on the subject matter.

[Anonymous No.10819723]

>>10819710
>Chernetski Plasmatron
>"The Plasmatron creates more electricity than it consumes"
No it doesn't.

[Anonymous No.10819724]

>>10819700
>>10819700
On the Anomalous Weight Losses of High Voltage Symmetrical Capacitors
https://arxiv.org/abs/1502.06915

ZERO POINT & the Alien Reproduction Vehicle :Mark McCandlish and James Allen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4J9RYUlp9o

[Anonymous No.10819731]

>>10819724
>On the Anomalous Weight Losses of High Voltage Symmetrical Capacitors
There's a pay wall, but reading the abstract it doesn't look relevant.
>ZERO POINT
More woo, gee thanks

[Anonymous No.10819733]

>>10819696
>>not a single equation or logical relation

Tesla's work was stolen by the government after his death and never released to the public. He had crates full of papers.

[Anonymous No.10819735]

>>10819733
So concede that electric universe """theory""" is not a theory, considering that theories have to be able to model something quantitatively. Great.

[Anonymous No.10819737]

>>10819606
you're a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.10819738]

>>10819731
Three independent observations by scientists that hint of a zeropoint field (SAFIRE, Chernetski, Correa) and they all involve pulsed plasmas. Pulsed plasmas happen on the Sun's surface all of the time but we will never get the full electromagnetic model of the sun from NASA in our lifetime. We are supposed to believe their propaganda where all of the magical energy is in the core of mostly helium/hydrogen..lol. No one else sees through their bullshit?

[Anonymous No.10819742]

>>10819738
Where are these observations published?

[Anonymous No.10819758]

>>10819738
SAFIRE is funded by this shill thing called the "international science foundation" run by some idiot named Frank Costanzo who shills electric universe on pintrest and has a profile on teslacommunity.com. he isn't a scientist at all, instead this is what he does:
>"Unbeknownst to Dave Contarino, some folks came together and decided there's a potential that Dave may need some help, given what's going on over there," said Frank Costanzo, an Arizona businessman and campaign consultant who is listed on the Richardson for President Web site as a former senior adviser to the campaign.
>"He's got a lot of folks out there that really like him and respect him, and I think, at the end of the day, personally, I don't think this is going to be an issue for him," Costanzo said of the federal investigation.
>Costanzo, who lives in Sedona, Ariz., was the Arizona state campaign manager for Howard Dean's Democratic presidential bid in 2004 and more recently served as campaign manager for Democrat Harry Teague, who won the open seat in New Mexico's 2nd Congressional District.
>Costanzo's firm was paid more than $46,000 by the Richardson for President campaign for consulting and constituency services, according to documents on file with the Federal Election Commission.
stupid teslatard shill with no scientific credentials whatsoever

[Anonymous No.10819771]

>>10819696
>>10819700
>>10819733
guys please this is pure desinfo, all of you are a disgrace to tesla's memory because he was a brillian man but all of you are spouting only desinfo about all his work. and I could bet none of you have read his papers or patents.


and that pdf even start by saying "we don't have all the info or the papers because the government has them locked so we just go by... werever..."

tesla did offered his services to the military when he was alive and he openly talked about it in the press this is where "the death ray" comes from...remember some time ago when the CIA published a report about tesla? well it doesn't say anything of interest, theres a huge more info in the press than that report! and it is just desinfo because it goes into the whole "longitudinal wave" thing and they even put "calculations" to leave people thinking "we are on the right track..." just read what tesla said in his own patents!

all this is directly related to patents openly available!

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/death-ray-planes

[Anonymous No.10819777]

>>10819742
The SAFIRE Project - 2017 - 2018 / www.safireproject.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVdzSjPx0g&t=1242s

[Anonymous No.10819778]

>>10819771
the huge majority of people involved with tesla giving lectures and organising events are basically desinfo (in that report the CIA even states that they went to one of this events/lecture)


ERIC DOLLARD is not giving the right info and neither PETER LINDEMMAN (vid) how the hell can you go through the patents and miss the very obvious info that tesla put there?!!! ONLY TO CREATE A REINTERPRETATION OF WHAT TESLA SAID:

https://youtu.be/cmfWGDKVHRE [Embed]

Eric Dollard has a video where he uses a "pancake coil" at one point he says "tesla was using millions of volts" then why the hell don't you use that coil like tesla said?!!! hes using this very bad scheme where hes using a 2.9 Mhz carrier (this is "shortwave" band) hes basically just using the "pancake coil" as a regular antenna (a bad one) this is not how tesla describes his method!!! you just need to listen to what tesla said and use the Very low frequency band with super high voltages! ... thats the whole secret of his technology by his own patents!

51:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFa-IymyWHM [Embed]

and supposedly this is the man that knows more about tesla ?! ALL this is pure misleading information...

pic related is once again the tesla spiral tranformer coil, in this close up you can easily count the turns of the secundary (about 100 ) and it is about 2.5 meters high(!) , in the patents he describes a 50 turn coil 2.4 m high made with regular copper wire.

[Anonymous No.10819779]

>>10819742

The SAFIRE Project - 2017 - 2018 / www.safireproject.com
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeVdzSjPx0g

[Anonymous No.10819783]

>>10819771

When Tesla was 82, instead of speaking at a dinner party, he issued a written statement:
“I have worked out a dynamic theory of gravity in all details and hope to give this to the world very soon. It explains the causes of this force and the motions of heavenly bodies under its influence so satisfactorily that it will put an end to idle speculations and false conceptions, as that of curved space. According to the relativists, space has a tendency to curvature owing to an inherent property or presence of celestial bodies.
“Granting a semblance of reality to this fantastic idea, it is still very self-contradictory. Every action is accompanied by an equivalent reaction and the effects of the latter are directly opposite to those of the former. Supposing that the bodies act upon the surrounding space causing curvature of the same, it appears to my simple mind that the curved spaces must react on the bodies and, producing the opposite effects, straighten out the curves.
“Since action and reaction are coexistent, it follows that the supposed curvature of space is entirely impossible -However, even if it existed it would not explain the motions of the bodies as observed. Only the existence of a field of force can account for them and its assumption dispenses with space curvature. All literature on this subject is futile and destined to oblivion.”

[Anonymous No.10819786]

>>10819778
and this is the patent:

"TRANSMISSION OF ENERGY AND SIGNALS".

this patent/idea is the one that I'm most fascinated with and the whole "secret" to this invention is to just READ he's own words and to also understand his time period (this is important to always keep in mind), this means for example that he uses different units of meassures to what we are used to now, for example he uses "cm" indistinctively for nanoHenry "nH" (inductance) and picoFarad "pF" (capacitance) he also uses "cycles" to note hertz

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/62/90/92/45a5932052a940/US645576.pdf


you can even put the numbers he gives into this "resonance calculator" to confirm his figures:

10.000nH (in parallel with) 40.000pF = about 250Khz

https://leleivre.com/rf_resonance.html

[Anonymous No.10819798]

>>10819771
>>10819778
>>10819783
>>10819786
the way you write shows that you are a nigh-illiterate brainlet, and nothing of what you said has any logical flow. stop being a tesla shill, he was wrong. GR is correct, remember that picture that was in the news a couple of months ago? electric universe is objectively debunked and just because the paranoid pigeon fucker who feared round objects and obsessively cleaned his dining table in between speculating that if one visualizes a picture, then an image of that appears on your retina and if you chop the person's head off while they're visualizing it you could shine a light through the back of their eyes and see what they're thinking like a video projector. guy was a loony toon. arguing in favor of EU using the tesla card is doubly retarded.

>>10819779
see >>10819758

[Anonymous No.10819799]

>>10819758
Attack the character instead of the message. Good disinfo technique.

[Anonymous No.10819801]

>>10819672
>anon, believers in normal physics don't claim that electricity doesn't exist.
Correct, they only particularize the actions of such into something "discrete". They also fail to explain what electricity is made of and what causes it.

>electromagnetic, gravitational, weak nuclear, and strong nuclear. or, more accurately, we have a unified description of electroweak forces and the strong nuclear (color) force, and we are working on getting gravity worked out too.
Case in point

>EUtards on the other hand claim gravity doesn't real and nukes don't real, it's all magically happening through electricity, electricity is the only thing that exists,
But gravity is an acceleration, dielectric acceleration to be specific...And electricity is the dielectric field and magnetism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectrophoresis

>typically with some invocation of the aether,
Which is fine since it was never disproved

>and denying that atoms exist, denying that subatomic particles exist,
Which is also fine because there's no empirical evidence of a "particle". Fields are not particles.

>and often (since if you get them to think about it, they admit that simply can't work to explain e.g. the sun) they go and talk about panpsychism and how the sun is conscious and that's why it works. so it basically is not only pseudoscience but also invoke magical newage crap too.

But the only thing we really know about the sun is that it acts as an electrical transformer. I understand though, it's not very helpful to say that it is "x" without explaining why. Try asking those same idiots to define "consciousness" and they'll probably shut up.

>>10819737
>>10819673
>and here's why....

[Anonymous No.10819803]

>>10819798

You can't have magnetism without the electric force. No matter how the establishment tries to deny the electromagnetic nature of the universe (and stars) they will always lose to this one simple observation of nature.

[Anonymous No.10819806]

>>10819803
>You can't have magnetism without the electric force.
And how is this supposed to disprove modern physics?

[Anonymous No.10819807]

>>10819783
you see how you are giving me just a "statement" we just don't know what was his theory in detail and he did offered all his help to the US military,


and he made a lot of mistakes too,


back in those days there was no certainty about a lot of things and the electromagnetic phenomena was not completely understood to a point that made tesla create erroneous conclutions and even calculations for example he was wrong about nuclear energy, he thought that it was impossible , from his observations working with super high voltages he never saw any atomic "rupture" and erroneusly concluded that the feat was impossible, another example is his views on radioactivity

> Now, according to my theory, a radioactive body is simply a target which is continuously bombarded by infinitesimal bullets projected from all parts of the universe, and if this, then unknown, cosmic radiation could be wholly intercepted, radioactivity would cease.

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/cosmic-rays

"Popular science" magazine november 1928 page 170 and 171

https://books.google.cl/books?id=tCcDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16&dq=nikola+tesla&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwia1LrSkbDjAhVZGrkGHUovC28Q6AEIQTAE

[Anonymous No.10819810]

>>10819803
again, can i repeat:
>anon, believers in normal physics don't claim that electricity doesn't exist.
>>10819672
the point is electromagnetism is real, everyone agrees on that so far, it's just that you deny lots of real physics like gravity and nuclear forces, which is retarded

[Anonymous No.10819811]

>>10819801
everything you said is scientifically wrong. go ahead, explain how the sun's energy gets generated then. or how the earth's core is still molten. or how nuclear weapons work. or what that black hole picture was. or how CRT TV's work

[Anonymous No.10819815]

>>10819806
>disprove modern physics?

Astrophysics is currently gravity-centric (Einstein's model) when in reality, electromagnetism is the dominant player even in places like the Birkeland Sun.

[Anonymous No.10819819]

>>10819815
no it isn't. you're full of shit and know nothing about physics.

how about you answer these questions?
>>10819811
oh you can't. too bad.

stay toasty, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10819822]

>>10819798
you cited two different persons, I'm the one claiming that tesla was working "in ordinary ways" and not in some magical electric realm.

teslas work is actually very interesting in normal electromagnetic terms but unfortunatelly hes been cought by the "tesla desinfo community"

[Anonymous No.10819823]

>>10819807

Two words: Virtual particle.

Virtual particles can be made to simulate radioactivity. Yes, radioactivity originates externally from external cosmic energy. This is likely one of the reasons all of Tesla's stuff was kept secret.

[Anonymous No.10819832]

>>10819823
>Virtual particles can be made to simulate radioactivity. Yes, radioactivity originates externally from external cosmic energy.
both false. define “cosmic energy” then. is this newage retard shit now?
wait let me guess, >MUH CONSPIRACY
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.10819839]

>>10819832
If I placed your fat ass in space you'll be bombarded with high energy EM rays from all directions and not just the Sun. This, my friend, is cosmic energy.

[Anonymous No.10819840]

>>10819811
>everything you said is scientifically wrong.
>and here's why

>go ahead, explain how the sun's energy gets generated then.
It comes from elsewhere. The universe is quite big and moves energy in large amounts. Why don't you explain where it gets it? To be honest nobody truly knows.

>or how the earth's core is still molten
>spinning thing with pressure disparities cause heat to be trapped inside churning dynamo.

>how nuclear weapons work.
The impotency of power. Really dense thing with lots of potential releases that potential really fast. It is the loss of power. Anything could be a nuclear weapon. A pencil could level a city block if the potential in it was released.

>CRT TV's work
A dielectric beam (Cathode ray tube) is guided by steering coils (a magnetic field) across a screen. Color comes from phosphor reacting to the dielectric beam (that would be "electron gun" for morons who believe that an electron particle exists).

[Anonymous No.10819848]

>>10819840
anon, at this point you look like an idiot. and i'm sure you are. just ask yourself: why do you think this?

if you weren't steeped to your eyeballs in schizo >>>/x/ shit you might open your eyes and realize that you are wrong and that real science actually works and is correct. but no, you're a schizo. sad.

[Anonymous No.10819856]

>>10819848
>we can deduce what the sun is by only being able to measure solar flares

>mass causes gravity
>what is the gravity at the center of mass?
>0
>So the cause of gravity is no gravity
>and apparently the earth is hollow because if there's no gravity at the center then obviously there can't be mass

Unless of course you want to explain what actually causes gravity that is.

[Anonymous No.10819862]

>>10819771
>>10819778
>>10819786
>>10819807
>>10819822
all this is from the same poster and I hope people interested in tesla read his patents and DO NOT take info from third parties like ERIC DOLLARD OR THAT GUY PETER LINDEMAN because they have twisted many things from those patents to create a cult.

I dont know why this is but once you read his patents directly it will be very easy for any EE to undertand and to also undertand why his system didn't caught on...basically his system of transmission is based on the VLF band but this band has too limited channels so its amost impossible to transmit multiple voice channels at the same time and back in the 10s and 20s "voice on the radio" was the biggest thing...

currently the VLF band is used only by some laboratory stations, the military (specially submarines )... but only on morse code mode or other type of pulsed modulation but obviously with the big limiting factor of how much bauds you can put in the chosen frequency carrier.

[Anonymous No.10819865]

>>10819856
the argument you're making is basically an argument that you would realize is retarded if you simply learned high school physics. the shell theorem does not imply that gravity doesn't exist, and if you think that, then you clearly have never done an integral in your life.

even newton had a real theory of gravity. mass sources gravity just like electric charge sources electrostatic force. i doubt trying to argue GR would make any difference for your schizophrenia -- do you know what einstein's field equations are, and what the terms in them represent?

[Anonymous No.10819910]

>>10819862
all the schizoids go crazy by the concept of "RADIANT ENERGY" thinking is just "free energy" heres the explanation from teslas own patent:

tesla explicitly explain this concept in his patent US685958 direct link:

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/56/c9/a3/db18adc1e6b191/US685958.pdf

"the secret" from his own words:

>" It is well known that certain radiations—such as those of ultra-violet light, cathodic, Roentgen rays, or the like—possess the property of charging and discharging conductors of electricity"

"roentgen rays" are X-rays, back them that was the name they used because they were first observed by Wilhelm Röntgen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_R%C3%B6ntgen

tesla worked extensively with X-rays to the point that it becomes scary, he did a lot of experiments trying to perfect Xray photography trying different materials and metals to best produce them that he even reported feeling sleepy after long exposure to Xrays...

>" ...For instance, at a distance of 45 feet from the end of the bulb my assistants and myself could observe clearly the fingers of the hand through a screen of tungstate of calcium..."

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/teslas-latest-roentgen-ray-investigations

[Anonymous No.10819915]

>>10819910
that is the context where the concept of "radiant energy" came to be, "radiant" doesnt mean anything obscure it only means literally "something that produces rays" like an Xray tube will produce "rays of energy" or "radiant energy", this is where he notice that a metal plate subject to X rays will dislodge electrons that could be accumulated on a capacitor and then produce some "work", the explanation for this is the photoelectric effect (pic)

[Anonymous No.10819923]

>>10819910
>>10819915
in that same patent you can even see the tube that will produce this "radiant rays" (ultra violet or Xrays) and the metal plate "sensor" that will collect them , and here is where you can see the infamous diagram that everyone thinks is collecting "free energy" "from all around" ... but no, he explicitly explains in that same patent that this is radiation from the sun specifically uV radiation.


>The rays or radiations which are to be utilized for the operation of the apparatus above described in general terms may be derived from a natural source, as the sun (fig 1 and fig 2), or may be artificially produced by such means, for example, as an arc-lamp (fig 3), a Roentgen tube , and the like (fig 4), and they may be employed for a great variety of useful purposes.

link to better search through the patent :
https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-685958-method-utilizing-radiant-energy

the patent is basically for a solar panel ... in those days there was no semiconductors or solar cells so he was relying on the high energy of uV radiation and Xrays to "dislodge electrons" , this has to do with the photoelectric effect he even states that:

>it will be found that when the radiations of the sun or of any other source capable of producing the effects before described fall upon the plate P an accumulation of electrical energy in the condenser C will result.

>Many useful applications of this method of utilizing the radiations emanating from the sun or other source and many ways of carrying out the same will at once suggest themselves from the above description. By way of illustration a modified arrangement is shown in Fig. 2, in which the source S of radiant energy is a special form of Roentgen tube devised by me having but one terminal k

[Anonymous No.10819927]

>>10819865
>i doubt trying to argue GR would make any difference for your schizophrenia -- do you know what einstein's field equations are, and what the terms in them represent?

They don't represent a thing if space or time have no actual basis in reality. Which they don't.
>but space can be curved!
What can be curved? It's a privation of something else that is actually real.

[Anonymous No.10819941]

>>10819923
PETER LINDEMMAN did a whole lecture based on that patent and some how he did get nothing out of it , he presented the info but at the same time he twisted everything from that patent VERY SNEAKY BASTARD!!!

all this is pure desinfo made only to fill schizos mind:

https://youtu.be/cmfWGDKVHRE

[Anonymous No.10819943]

>>10819927
If you take space and time to be real, and take measurements, and compare them to the theory, you find that the theory gives unprecedented precision in describing the motion, energy, and evolution of physical systems. If that's not a great reason to accept the reality of a model, I don't know what is.

[Anonymous No.10819949]

>>10819927
i said, let's not argue GR. it's clearly beyond you. let's focus on newtonian gravity. you made an argument that the shell theorem debunks gravity. because at the center of the earth, gravity is zero--so you say--this "debunks gravity". well, if you believe in electromagnetism so hard, then if you have a spherical volume that has a uniform charge density throughout the volume, then the electric field at the center of that sphere would be zero. same argument, this is gauss' theorem / shell theorem and it applies just as well to any inverse square law. have you also debunked maxwells equations, anon?

if you want to argue GR we can, but do you acknowledge that newtonian gravity is exactly what GR predicts for things that are not moving close to the speed of light in regions of weak gravitational fields? (this means, basically anywhere besides close to the surface of a black hole or neutron star)

if you agree to newtonian gravity (which you should since it's the same kind of inverse square model as electrostatics) then the issue becomes: is GR a correct generalization of newtonian gravity? well, yes, it is. we've seen gravitational waves and black holes and light bending and it works on GPS satellites. does Tesla's shill theory work for any of that? no. it's not even a real theory, unless you show me one equation that hasn't been debunked experimentally

[Anonymous No.10819955]

>>10819943
>If you take space and time to be real
See that's the problem you moron. This leads to:

>and take measurements, and compare them to the theory, you find that the theory gives unprecedented precision in describing the motion, energy, and evolution of physical systems. If that's not a great reason to accept the reality of a model, I don't know what is

Religious beliefs. I'm not just going to believe it because a group-think said so. You don't debate an irrational religious belief based on what their understanding of it is and on their terms, you go for the foundation. In this case it would be

>space and time

Prove/explain what these things are and then I'll subscribe to listening to your descriptions of them.

[Anonymous No.10819958]

Any argument that gravity is actually due to EM dipole forces is easily blown away by two facts.
1. Gravity follows an inverse square distance relation (dipole forces are inverse cube)
2. Gravitational acceleration is independent of the accelerating body's mass (EM acceleration is inversely proportional to mass)

[Anonymous No.10819966]

>>10819955
do you know what a "space" or "vector space" means in mathematics? have you read euclid where he talks about width, height, and depth? well spacetime is basically a vector space. where we have dimensions like width, height, and depth. time is treated as a fourth dimension just like those other three.

is that clear enough?

[Anonymous No.10819972]

>>10819941
and now ken wheeler, I kinda like the guy and I kinda agree with him on somethings about photography and to be very honest some of his analogies are kinda nice but them he comes with massive bullshit like this:

the magic "antigravity empanada" ....

go to 13:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG2dtVEJO6g


he might as well be just desinforming people, none of his "pratical designs" are proven. he claimed he could use magnetism to select gold from rubbish but first you had to pay all the expences for the trip to your place so he could explain it to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kfvyk0LHLSY

and that is exactly what this other shill is doin with the concept of "radiant moray energy"

>give me some money and I'll give you "the secret"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHTCZu8OZtI

[Anonymous No.10819976]

>>10819955
This is how the scientific method works
1. Make assumptions and generalizations based on acquired observations
2. Make predictions by following these assumptions to their logical conclusions
3. Collect new data and compare with predictions
4. Revise and repeat

It doesn't matter what space and time <<actually are>> (which is a loaded phrase). What matters is that there are agreed upon methods to measure these quantities, and the accuracy and usefulness of the predictions.

[Anonymous No.10819989]

>>10819949
i said, let's not argue GR. it's clearly beyond you. let's focus on newtonian gravity. you made an argument that the shell theorem debunks gravity. because at the center of the earth, gravity is zero--so you say--this "debunks gravity". well, if you believe in electromagnetism so hard, then if you have a spherical volume that has a uniform charge density throughout the volume, then the electric field at the center of that sphere would be zero. same argument, this is gauss' theorem / shell theorem and it applies just as well to any inverse square law. have you also debunked maxwells equations, anon?

Absolutely true, also at the center of magnetism there is no magnetism. All you have done is further proved that

>at the center of and field modality
>there is none of that field

Also Maxwell's equation describe what a field does, not what it is so yeah....

>well, yes, it is. we've seen gravitational waves and black holes and light bending and it works on GPS satellites.
Faraday effect/EMR

>>10819966
do you know what a "space" or "vector space" means in mathematics?

I'm talking about actual reality here, sheesh.

>have you read euclid where he talks about width, height, and depth? well spacetime is basically a vector space. where we have dimensions like width, height, and depth. time is treated as a fourth dimension just like those other three.

But what would be the case that the universe functioned on
>non euclidian geometry
like maybe
>hyperbolic

>>10819976

>1. Make educated hypothesis based on acquired observations.
FTFY. So what did you observe as "time" and "space"? Or was that just entirely assumed to exist? See you actually need empirical evidence to test.

>It doesn't matter what space and time <<actually are>> (which is a loaded phrase). What matters is that there are agreed upon methods to measure these quantities
Lol.

[Anonymous No.10819994]

>>10819989
An educated hypothesis consists of assumptions and generalizations. What do you observe as "dielectric fields?" Or was that just entirely assumed to exist?

[Anonymous No.10820001]

>>10819994
>What do you observe as "dielectric fields?"
Same difference as "electrostatic field", only Maxwell and Steinmetz dubbed it the "dielectric field".
Or was that just entirely assumed to exist?
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to be a massive asshole here and ask something before I answer that question:
Define "exist".

[Anonymous No.10820002]

>>10819989
>also at the center of magnetism there is no magnetism.
Not true. Magnetic fields are strong at the center of magnets.

>Faraday effect/EMR
Now provide a quantitative description that replicates observation.

[Anonymous No.10820009]

>>10820001
In my eyes, the existence of a model depends on its ability to accurately quantitatively predict physical observations and measurements. The more phenomena that can be accurately calculated from the model, the more it can be said to really exist.

[Anonymous No.10820046]

>>10820002
>Not true. Magnetic fields are strong at the center of magnets.
No, the edge of the field is the strongest. The expression of the field is magnetism, the absence towards the center is the absence of magnetism. The bloch wall separating the poles logically has less magnetism because it is the null point between polarities.

>>10820009
>the existence of a model depends on its ability to accurately quantitatively predict physical observations and measurements.
>The more phenomena that can be accurately calculated from the model, the more it can be said to really exist.

Now how do you calculate the absence of phenomena?

[Anonymous No.10820053]

>>10820046
no anon, take your gauss meter and read the magnetic field out in and around a simple coil electromagnet. the field is strongest inside the coil

it's amazing that people who worship electromagnetism so hard that it becomes the (mystical) only force in the universe have no idea how electromagnetism actually works

[Anonymous No.10820063]

>>10820046
>Now how do you calculate the absence of phenomena?
Very vague question. You could calculate that the electric field at a point is zero, in which case a stationary charge at that point will not experience electrical acceleration. That, I suppose, is calculating the absence of a phenomenon.

[Anonymous No.10820091]

electric universe tard BTFO

it's amazing how they have all these pre-canned lines and the same kind of retarded rhetoric where every question gets answered with a question. i wonder if somebody could train a neural network to find assholes like this and autoban them, since they all say the same shit, dodge actual discussion, and commit the same logical fallacies over and over

[Anonymous No.10820100]

>>10820053
https://www.kjmagnetics.com/blog.asp?p=surface-fields-101
https://www.supermagnete.de/eng/faq/Do-you-have-a-x-gauss-magnet

Lets see what manufacturers of magnets have to say about your absolutely incorrect statement.

[Anonymous No.10820112]

>>10820100
are you going to disagree with my statement about coil electromagnets? i suggest you open Griffiths E&M, the mathematical derivation of this fact from maxwell's laws is presented on pages 227-229 of the third edition.

if you want to argue details of solid-state magnets, then it depends on materials science. in terms of classical E&M, solid-state magnets that are conductors differ from solid-state magnets that are insulators and what their permittivity and permeabilities are, among other things. to understand those, though, you need to know solid-state physics, but i guess for you that's all fake news cuz atoms don't real, right?

[Anonymous No.10820117]

>>10820100
The magnetic field strength at the center of a permanent magnet is weaker than at the edges, but is NOT zero.

[Anonymous No.10820132]

>>10820117
EUtard BTFO’d himself this time since he can’t read his own plot

[Anonymous No.10820264]

any other electric universe idiots care to try and argue why atoms don’t real or why tesla and his ether and pigeon fetish are so great? i bet we could BTFO a few more of you if you’re up for it

[Anonymous No.10820313]

>>10820264
>>10820132
>Pigeonshill trying this hard while making no point
Dog barks, wind blows.

>>10820117
Not zero but also NOT there.

>>10820112
Well that's great, but I was talking about magnetism and magnets. Electricity is made by the motion of magnetic fields, and magnets have no magnetism in the center. It is the absence of magnetism, the dielectric.

[Anonymous No.10820331]

>>10820313
>Electricity is made by the motion of magnetic fields, and magnets have no magnetism in the center. It is the absence of magnetism, the dielectric.
oh okay, so electric charges don't exist? if i rub a balloon on my head, then that doesn't mean electric charge accumulates on my hair or the balloon? i guess it must be, what, just purely magnetic monopoles?

have you looked at maxwell's equations recently? the one about the divergence of the B field being 0?

sorry, i forgot you are innumerate, my bad. you are entitled to your opinions. magnetic monopoles not existing is a social construct, sure, and you can change to a woman, if that's how you identify

[Anonymous No.10820336]

>>10820313

see:

>>10819972

[Anonymous No.10820340]

This is all you need to know, OP >>10819307

[Anonymous No.10820415]

>>10819783
here is another mistake tesla made:


>Terrestrial phenomena which I have noted conclusively show that there is no Heaviside layer, or if it exists, it is of no effect.

https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/articles/true-wireless


the "heaviside layer" is now called the ionosphere and is divided in layers D, E, F, they are directly related to sun activity and its actually of great use because this is the layer that allows the shortwave band to get very long propagation.

he was a very brilliant man but he did make VARIOUS mistakes in his explanations.

[Anonymous No.10820427]

>>10820415
as i stated, the man believed if you chopped off someone’s head while they were visualizing something you could make a video camera picture of what they were visualizing by shining light from behind their eye, and also he was afraid of round objects and was OCD about cleaning his dining room table. also pigeons

[Anonymous No.10820435]

>>10819307
retard
>>10819690
based

[Anonymous No.10820437]

>>10820435

[Anonymous No.10820443]

>>10820437
>projecting

[Anonymous No.10820454]

>>10819840
>Really dense thing with lots of potential releases that potential really fast. It is the loss of power. Anything could be a nuclear weapon. A pencil could level a city block if the potential in it was released.
That's not an explanation of how they work.

[Anonymous No.10820461]

>>10819856
>mass causes gravity
>what is the gravity at the center of mass?
>0
Dear God in heaven...

[Anonymous No.10820463]

>>10820427
you know what? I'm not really attacking tesla...

the whole problem with tesla is that he is currently co-opted by the "tesla desinfo community" the man doesnt deserve all this schizos that don't know nothing about basic electronics to go orbiting aroung him creating a "new wave hippy cult"

tesla was an honest man that doesn't deserve all the pseudoscience garbage spit out by his orbiters.

[Anonymous No.10820471]

>>10820463
fine, we might forgive tesla for marrying a pigeon and believing you could project people's last thoughs through their retinas like movie film reels, sure. he did invent a few things (not nearly as much as edison though). in that case i agree that newager retards and EU schizos have totally absorbed him into anti-science culture, which if he were alive today, i believe he would disown all that crap, true

[Anonymous No.10820477]

>>10820471
*last thoughts through their retinas....

(he literally believed in this. i think they referenced it in one of the Wild Wild West movies)

[Anonymous No.10820532]

>>10820471
yes, I agree.

tesla orbiters even think he invented AC.... but his invention is actually the induction motor which is still a very important development.

[Anonymous No.10820541]

>>10819307
100% accurate as proven by the rest of this thread.
fpbp as never been more fpbp

[Anonymous No.10820567]

>>10820331
>oh okay, so electric charges don't exist?
There is "Charge" and "discharge".

>i guess it must be, what, just purely magnetic monopoles?
The loss of inertia necessitates polarity. Inertia itself is not magnetism, the loss of it is magnetism.

>have you looked at maxwell's equations recently?
Indeed. None of them tell me what a field is.

>>10820461
What causes gravity? How about you try and answer that instead of pissing on yourself.

>>10820454
That is a perfect explanation of how they work. "Radiation"...."to radiate". The loss of power, released from potential. To be more specific, we use denser materials that are full of more potential energy. They're already unstable and easier to release with the force from another explosion. So basically:
>We blow up a really dense material that's already unstable

[Anonymous No.10820606]

>>10820567
oh. okay. “discharge” . that exist just like charges? i thought “charge” was a noun in this context, but “discharge” is a verb. are you sure you aren’t making shit up?

[Anonymous No.10820611]

>>10820606
Both are what something does. A battery/capacitor for instance can be charged and discharged.

[Anonymous No.10820613]

>>10820611
no, a capacitor stores a thing called “electric charge”. electric charge exists, even according to maxwell and tesla. it is not a verb referring to a transfer of “something else”. electric charge exists according to everyone, and if you disagree you need to read maxwell or even tesla

[Anonymous No.10820677]

>>10820613
>a thing called “electric charge”
A thing? What is this "thing" made of? There is nothing quantitatively different, it's what something does. A capacitor is charged and discharged, the "charge" is only quantified "as something" for use in equations. There is nothing there there noun wise because absolutely nothing quantitative is different about it. Same with a magnet vs an unmagnetized piece of the same material.

>electric charge exists, even according to maxwell and tesla.

"It is the established practice of men of science to call the vitreous electrification positive, and the resinous electrification negative. The exactly opposite properties of the two kinds of electrification justify us in indicating them by opposite signs, but the application of the positive sign to one rather than to the other kind must be considered as a matter of arbitrary convention, just as it is a matter of convention in mathematical diagrams to reckon positive distances towards the right hand. No force, either of attraction or of repulsion, can be observed between an electrified body and a body not electrified. When, in any case, bodies not previously electrified are observed to be acted on by an electrified body, it is because they have become electrified by induction."- A treatise on electricity and magnetism by Maxwell

[Anonymous No.10820696]

>>10820677
okay, your second quote basically amounts to maxwell saying "oh, some people call positive charge positive, but actually you could call it negative". that's totally fine. but he uses the word "electrification" quite prominently, which is basically implying the existence of electric charge.

>A thing? What is this "thing" made of? There is nothing quantitatively different, it's what something does.
so what is happening when i rub a balloon on my hair? not "charge"? charge doesn't real?

even maxwell and tesla, not to mention faraday and the other pioneers, knew that one could deposit a charge on things. it's common sense for anyone who does experiments, but i'm sure you've never done any.

have you ever gotten a shock from touching a light switch or something? that's due to "static charge" which maxwell and tesla and faraday were completely comfortable with. maybe they didn't know what it was made of, but it was surely real.

i don't want to argue electrons with you, because obviously that leads to a tangential shill script you probably can crib off of, all i want to say is that since the very early founders, static electric charge was known to exist. in fact, the ancient greeks knew about it from rubbing amber on rabbit pelts.

[Anonymous No.10820698]

>>10819606
>Not falling for schizophrenic "Electric Universe" flapdoodle means you don't believe electricity exists

[Anonymous No.10820776]

>>10820696
>okay, your second quote basically amounts to maxwell saying "oh, some people call positive charge positive, but actually you could call it negative". that's totally fine. but he uses the word "electrification" quite prominently, which is basically implying the existence of electric charge.

"it is because they have become electrified by induction"
Which is an action. To "charge" and "discharge" is an action. There is nothing empirical you can point to called "charge". The effect you feel, the shock, the static charge is all induced from a displacement of what is present. That isn't a "thing". It's like calling a shadow a real thing just because you can see it and feel the effects of it. What you "see" and "feel" is the absence of what has properties.

>the ancient greeks knew about it from rubbing amber on rabbit pelts.
"But during their comprehension of these they do not disturb them by introducing another motion, but lead on the beginning of the slower lation in conformity to that of the swifter. And these, adapting to themselves a similitude of the ceasing motion mingle together one passion from the union of sharp and flat. From whence they afford pleasure to the unwise, but joy to the wise, through the imitation of divine harmony, subsisting in mortal motions. And, indeed, with respect to all effluxions of water, the falling of thunder, and the wonderful circumstances observed in the attraction of Amber, and of the Herculean stone; -in all these, nothing in reality of attraction takes place: but, as a vacuum cannot anywhere be found, and these particulars mutually impel each other,-hence, from the individuals when separated and mingled together tending to their proper seats, and from these passions being interwoven with each other, such admirable effects present themselves to these view of the accurate investigator."-Plato.

[Anonymous No.10821070]

>>10819955
>making predictions and taking measurements to verify or falsify them are religious beliefs
Why are you even on /sci/? It's not even anywhere near /x/ which I assume was your intended destination.

[Anonymous No.10821577]

"fucking magnets, how do they work"

as for your back and forth, not interested, I came here for...something other than this.

[Anonymous No.10821623]

>electric universe thread
>it's one dull retard arguing himself
He stopped avatarfagging, so there's some evidence of self awareness and growth.
At this rate he should be potty trained before the sun burns out.

[Anonymous No.10821775]

>>10821070
>Why are you even on /sci/?

To discuss science, but it seems all the religious nutcases want me to just "take things to be real". Like the jehovahs dipsticks want me to believe in the watchtower, or Christians Jesus Christ. Your proverbial "Jesus Christ" is "space and time", this is what I'm expected to take for granted and just believe. The only problem is that these things don't exist.

>measuring and predicting something you don't even know is real is completely different than a secularized metaphysician trying to describe his never seen deity and the order his deity brings.

Both are describing shit that has no basis in reality, one just uses a different language than the other. Measurements aren't real, it's what's measurable and phenomenal that is real.

>>10821623
>sun
>burning
Another stupid misnomer you bought into, good job. Keep making posts that "attack" me, they give me chuckles now and then.