Why doesn't STEM have unions?

[Anonymous No.10792689]

The bankers, lawyers, stem project leaders and brokers don't study the science, do the experiments, or write the publications. But somehow through some strange alchemy, all the money belongs to them.
It really makes you think doesn't it?
Why are stemlords so under paid?

[Anonymous No.10792697]

>Why doesn't STEM have unions?
they are all socielly inept bitter retards who hate each other

>The bankers, lawyers, stem project leaders and brokers don't study the science, do the experiments, or write the publications. But somehow through some strange alchemy, all the money belongs to them.

The bankers, lawyers, stem project leaders and brokers, those are hard jobs that few can do. any monkey can write publications or do experiments. in fact every year they do it by millions. only very few publications actually matter out of those millions published in a decade, and those who do those get awarded.

>Why are stemlords so under paid?

because stemlord jobs require 0 intelligence or talent. a retard can grind his way there. the moment stemlords unionize they'd get replaced. even most unskilled labor is harder to replace than stemlords

[Anonymous No.10792700]

In most European countries it is. Universities have unions and so do most employers.

[Anonymous No.10792704]

>>10792700
And btw, this does not result in high salaries. Just more stable working environment.
Salaries are pretty mediocre.

[Anonymous No.10792709]

>>10792700
>>10792704

euro unis are full of corruption and nepotism

they are also shittier than all unis in USA and UK, and most of ASIA

[Anonymous No.10792712]

>>10792709
Has not been my experience but it's too big of a region to make such a generalization. I'm sure some Euro unis are corrupt.

[Anonymous No.10792717]

>>10792712
are you a researcher / postdoc or a student?

its full of corruption in germany. a professor can have 30 phds under him and they get paid bonuses if they take international students. so some professors just let everyone in, they do fuckall and get paid shitloads of money.

its common to have 3-4 people with same surname(relatives) in alumni etc.

[Anonymous No.10792723]

>>10792689
I thought big bill was a copper miner.
Typically unions aren't white collar because they come from the labor side with teachers being the biggest exception I can think about.

[Anonymous No.10792732]

>>10792700
it's still pretty shit. The unions have low standards because the salary isn't high enough

[Anonymous No.10792735]

>>10792717
Interesting. I'm an (international) MSc. in Germany as well.
First of all what subject? I do Math.
Secondly what do you consider "corruption"?
Cause of course there are many middle aged professors that do the bare minimum of teaching and "mentorship"?
But I wouldn't consider that corruption in itself.
Nepotism I have not yet witnessed.
Also being international, I don't know about bonuses, but it's much harder for me to get any prof to give a shit. Usually end up working with the other international staff/profs.

[Anonymous No.10792739]

>>10792689
You probably first need to understand how capitalism works. After that, if you don’t like it, you can come to my apartment to collect your one way ticket to North Korea.

[Anonymous No.10792746]

>>10792739
I'm not looking to dismantle capitalism. I'm just looking to understand why people who don't work hard at all get way more money for doing things that don't advance civilization while engineers, PhDs, and other learned stemlords get almost NOTHING even though they're the smartest ones.

[Anonymous No.10792754]

>>10792746
Are you kidding, you said stem project leaders. There is your answer. They do get paid, they just have to be actual S.T.E.M wizards.

[Anonymous No.10792765]

>>10792746
No one gets paid to change the world. In the real world, your compensation is proportional to (amount of money you produced for your investors)*(risk undertaken while doing so).

In science and engineering there are huge risks, but these are entirely taken by the investors. Thus the goal is then to minimize your compensation as to not hurt our bank even more. On the other hand consider an investment banker. His job is literally go out and make money. And he needs to find his own deals. Once he has found the deal, he uses the liquidity of the bank to get things moving, but he was the one taking the risk. In a year that the investment banker makes no profit he’ll immediately get fired. In a year that your engineering project produces no profit, it is the investors that absorb the blow while you happily continue working, receiving a riskless paycheck every month like if nothing bad was happening. This is the difference.

If you want to get the big bucks, start your own company and take your own risks. That way you’ll be the owner of your product and if you succeed your ney worth will be 100 billion like Bezos.

[Anonymous No.10792817]

>>10792746
Power structures, faggot. Learn them.

[Anonymous No.10792918]

>>10792765
>In science and engineering there are huge risks, but these are entirely taken by the investors
No. All the risk is taken by me because I chose a stem major instead of fucking banking where I could have been rich considering my good grades and business man gather

[Anonymous No.10792934]

>>10792918
But no one agreed to pay you for that risk. You took that risk for free. If you are american you even got in debt to take that risk. Why you did it? Don’t ask me.

[Anonymous No.10792961]

>>10792934
I did it to contribute to civilization with my own brain and hands. Someone has to cure cancer.

[Anonymous No.10792964]

>"The homeowners don't pick the furniture up from the store. They do not move the furniture to the home. They do not carry it up the stairs, but by some weird alchemy all the furniture belongs to them."

>T. Gom E. Dumbass
>Professional moron and moron leader

[Anonymous No.10793028]

>>10792964
Correct. Why does it belong to them?

[Anonymous No.10793073]

>>10792961
True and trust me that if you actually cure cancer you’ll have an easy life. But being “person who has the potential to cure cancer” is not an achievement on it’s own. It may be enough for a pharma company to hire you, but you won’t make much until you prove you can lead the lab.

[Anonymous No.10793090]

Because the person who puts up the assets and capital to fund or research a project is owed the revenue of anything produced. This is fair. Engineers or technicians or researchers or are working for the capitalist have voluntarily agreed to work for him in exchange for a salary, not ownership of the project. This is very simple.
Unions are by and large garbage in the 21st century. Many academics ARE members of instructors unions/associations, btw.
t. UIW Seafarers, AFL-CIO affiliate Local Wilmington, CA

>The union bosses, lawyers, professional crybabies don't do any of the work, but somehow through some strange alchemy, a portion of my salary goes to them.
>It really makes you think doesn't it?

>>10793028
>dude what is property

[Anonymous No.10793128]

I want communists to leave

[Anonymous No.10793187]

>>10793128
Stay poor then faggot.
Never whine about your wages again

[Anonymous No.10793191]

>>10793187
I'm not poor

[Anonymous No.10793192]

>>10793073
So one out of the 30 people involved in the project deserves a livable wage?
While most bankers deserve millions?

[Anonymous No.10793196]

>>10793191
There we have it gentlemen. Only rich people like this scumbag like corporate capitalism with welfare to bail out banks and businesses

[Anonymous No.10793199]

>>10793196
I'm literally a due-paying member of a union, fag. Are you?

[Anonymous No.10793203]

>>10793192
No banker deserves millions. Bankers MAKE millions. The ones who don’t you don’t hear much about because they just shoot themselves. Have you ever felt that kind of pressure in your engy job? Doubt it.

[Anonymous No.10793210]

>>10793199
Yes I am. I wish I could tell your Union that you're actually an apologist for exploitation online so they'd take care of you

[Anonymous No.10793211]

>>10792689
Everyone is always going to assume that their area of expertise will make money. In contrast, bankers and investors are non-bias third parties.

Having bankers and investors, should at least in theory reduce the number bankruptcies.

[Anonymous No.10793218]

>>10793203
Why do they feel the pressure? Because they're gambling with the money.
And whenever their Ponzi scheme fails the government bails them out.
Maybe we should change the system so that the money actually goes to the people advancing Civilization like engineers. Otherwise this civilization will collapse

[Anonymous No.10793230]

>>10793218
You have no idea. The government cares when old money families lose their money. They don’t give a shit about the bankers who are their slaves basically. Oh how nice it must be to just be a cog in the machine. Your monthly compensation is a riskless payment, and your decisions have no impact. Start your own business and maybe you’ll stop being such a kid.

[Anonymous No.10793245]

>>10793210
>so they'd take care of you
ahahahaha what the fuck? you're LARPing
Please tell them. Union is in >>10793090

[Anonymous No.10793262]

>>10792689
Because STEM is a set of fields that rely upon COMPETENCE to get ahead. This is anathema to the root philosophy of unions.

[Anonymous No.10793267]

>>10792689
Mining gold involves more than hitting rocks with a pickaxe you brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10793275]

>>10793187
You fucking moron. You're implying that COMMUNISM has *improved* people's wages?!?

Clearly, you neither studied STEM *NOR* History.

[Anonymous No.10793310]

>>10793275
I don't really want to defend communism, but wasn't Stalin a scientist?

[Anonymous No.10793314]

>>10793310
no he wasn't

[Anonymous No.10793329]

>>10793314
When I argued for more scientists in politics in an alternate history site, someone claimed Stalin was a scientist. No one challenged the veracity of that claim

[Anonymous No.10793337]

>>10793329
he was not a scientist, and that bizarre anecdote you just shared is not evidence he was one. he was literally an impoverished gangster from a young age.

[Anonymous No.10793342]

>>10793275
If everyone is paid the amount equal to their effort, then it's fine.

[Anonymous No.10793361]

>>10793337
Bizarre anecdote? Are you serious? Is that how you see your life? What are memories to you?

[Anonymous No.10793375]

>>10793337
The thread had a lot more traffic than this one and the site has a penchant for grilling people on historical accuracy.

[Anonymous No.10793385]

>>10792689

OP, they do. Here's a short list of STEM workers who are unionized:

>crane operators
>RR operators
>miners
>ironworkers
>machinists
>electricians
>sound/comm (read: internet) electricians
>plumbers
>drywallers (area formula is math)
>radio broadcast technicans

It's only software compsci faggots that aren't unionized.

[Anonymous No.10793400]

>>10793385
What about us biologists

[Anonymous No.10793404]

>>10793375
That doesn't make him a scientist, retard

[Anonymous No.10793423]

>>10793400
That would require you to have a spine

[Anonymous No.10793443]

>>10793404
There's a reason the first post you responded to was a question, not a statement. I wasn't completely convinced myself.

What struck me as strange is why the Soviet Union didn't seem to value durable goods. Things like refrigerators, toasters, blenders, grills, washing machines, dryers, washers, central air heating and air conditioning, microwave ovens, vacuum cleaners, personal computers etc... would have been a boon to the Soviet Union. The primary purpose of science is to improve quality of life. If Stalin was a scientist, then why didn't he value improving the quality of life for his people?

That was the jist of what I asked. There was never a satisfactory response.

[Anonymous No.10793451]

>>10793443
I don't understand why you are still fixated on this. Stalin was unambiguously NOT a scientist. Nothing about his life or his accomplishments as a dictator imply this.

[Anonymous No.10793460]

>>10793451
He turned USSR into a superpower in less than a generation. He was definitely an honorary political scientist

[Anonymous No.10793463]

>>10793460
>He turned USSR into a superpower in less than a generation
Thanks to the wave of industrialization that was established since the late 19th century in Russia. Political science isn't "science" btw.

[Anonymous No.10793466]

>>10793451
What about before he was a dictator?

I vaguely recall there be being a book about Stalin having ambitious dreams for a Russian electrical grid in his youth. Didn't read the book though. Based on this premise, he at least seems to have had some scientific vision, irrespective of his credentials.

[Anonymous No.10793472]

>>10793466
Sounds vague and inconsequential. Still not a scientist. Hmm, you're so obsessed with proving he was a scientist that it's almost like you have an agenda of sorts...

[Anonymous No.10793481]

>>10793472
No. The issue is just unresolved.

>>10793451
>fixated on this
Just undecided.

[Anonymous No.10793483]

>>10793203
>Bankers MAKE millions.
*fills your AAA MBS with subprime garbage*
I have more respect for drug dealers.

[Anonymous No.10793496]

>>10793481
>The issue is just unresolved
It's not unresolved. It's like saying "Was Napoleon Bonaparte a ballet dancer? Well at one point in his life he expressed admiration for ballet so I guess it's unresolved." Stalin had no schooling or training in any field of science or engineering. He was a criminal and manual laborer up until joining the Bolsheviks.
>dude but there's a book that includes "Stalin" and "Science" in the title
Not very cogent

[Anonymous No.10793528]

>>10793496
Why are you still giving him (You)'s
For a board that brags about it's IQ so much, it sure it full of gullible retards who can't help but take the most obvious b8, hook, line, and sinker.
And for fucks sake if you absolute must fucking reply to trash off topic threads like this, don't bump them.

[Anonymous No.10793531]

>>10793496
>Not very cogent
The point of that picture was to show that the issue is unresolved. Search engines should have a straight forward answer to a straight forward question.

Google seems to go both ways. On the one hand, J.D Bernal claimed in 1953 that Stalin was a scientist. "The Daily Beast" seems to make the opposite argument.

[Anonymous No.10793608]

>“Great Scientist” himself, Joseph Stalin.

[Anonymous No.10793612]

>>10793608
Communism can science

[Anonymous No.10793615]

>>10793608

[Anonymous No.10793630]

How about a union of search engine workers? Maybe then there will be more cogent search results.

[Anonymous No.10793820]

>>10793630
Thank you for your contribution

[Anonymous No.10793846]

>>10792689
There are unions at least in Europe.

[Anonymous No.10793877]

>>10792689
This is dumb. The mine owner paid someone to find the gold, bought the land, and presumably bought all the equipment needed to mine the gold.
I'm all for fair wages and non-slave working hours, but that reductionist view does nothing to help the cause

[Anonymous No.10793885]

>>10792689
unions should be banned
its cartel type of behavior that i do not approve.
every man should have the right to win on a free market and the government should be there only to level the playing field to be the same for everyone.

[Anonymous No.10794325]

>>10793885
They even the playing field

[Anonymous No.10794329]

>>10793885
>Muh unions r bad

Low union membership is now wages are depressed, dumb fag.

[Anonymous No.10794331]

>>10792689
Supply and demand

[Anonymous No.10794333]

>>10793877
Kill the mine owner. Wealth accumulation is terrorism.

[Anonymous No.10794335]

>>10794329
Unions don't do shit anymore either

[Anonymous No.10794419]

>>10794331
Demand for Ponzi schemes instead of science

[Anonymous No.10794860]

>>10792689
Europe some states do. Others onlt government. In a lot of places there's the belief that being educated and skilled means that o can negotiate your own wages or that wages are for the trades.

[Anonymous No.10794863]

>>10794860
only government and schools I mean.

>>10794335
That's how unions lose power.

[Anonymous No.10794868]

>>10792765
>but he was the one taking the risk. In a year that the investment banker makes no profit he’ll immediately get fired.

Nah they give you a lot chances.

[Anonymous No.10794873]

>>10793203
>. Have you ever felt that kind of pressure in your engy job?

Lots do. Especially for big contracts.

[Anonymous No.10794878]

>>10793230
>Your monthly compensation is a riskless payment, and your decisions have no impact.

One mess up intentional or not could cost millions.

[Anonymous No.10797081]

>>10794329

No, chinkshit is why, and unions are a major cause of companies moving to china

[Anonymous No.10797085]

>>10797081
So westerners should work for Chinese wages?

[Anonymous No.10797091]

>>10797085
People didn’t work for chink wages before manufacturing migrated at the end of the 20th century.

[Anonymous No.10797095]

>>10797091
Cars and planes weren't cheap back then and phones didn't even exist or were super expensive

[Anonymous No.10797549]

>>10797081
They move to China because despite its many business issues their wages are Rick bottom and they'll do anything. Turns out if a prostitute refuses to fuck you or do certain sex acts you can either fund someone who has lower levels of self respect or find someone who can do it but with a higher cost.

[Anonymous No.10797600]

>>10793451
how can you be sure he wasn't a scientist?

[Anonymous No.10797602]

Unions are created by people who are severely unhappy with their working conditions. Most STEM workers have high pay, low stress, and reasonable work hours. There's no reason to unionize.

[Anonymous No.10798123]

>>10797602
Low pay high stress and long work hours though. I've seen programmers working for 20 dollars an hour

[Anonymous No.10798143]

>>10798123
You've obviously never had an actual high stress low pay job.

[Anonymous No.10798269]

>>10798143
I actually have. That's why I'll never settle again

[Anonymous No.10798289]

STEM is filled with arrogant and socially retarded people who have been manipluated by Chad employers into thinking that they're so much smarter than everybody else they can't have a union holding them back.

Meanwhile chad Employers are forming cartels among themselves and are blackballing employees who move around seeking higher wages because they have social skills and realize that collective bargaining works.

[Anonymous No.10798310]

>>10792918
The risk in any given project is taken by whoever is funding the project and putting their own assets on the line if it fails. You are just getting a direct guaranteed payment for a given amount of work/time, regardless of whether it works out in the end or not. If you want to make more money you have to take more risk.

[Anonymous No.10798325]

>>10798289
This.
>>10792689
STEMtards generally see themselves as having a career, not a job. Someone shovelling shit for a living has no ambitions about becoming the head shit shoveller through his superior shit shovelling ability and becoming rich. An engineer doesn't want to hurt his career prospects, however unlikely, by showing the wrong kind of attitude, especially one that might bite him in the ass later in a supervisory or administrative role.

[Anonymous No.10798328]

>>10798143
>high stress low pay job.
Honest question, what jobs are those? I've had low pay jobs like working at a trash sorting facility and construction but those were generally pretty chill even if physically demanding. Just do what you're told.

[Anonymous No.10798397]

>>10792918
College isn’t job training, it’s to make you less pleb. It’s why rich people still send their kids.

[Anonymous No.10798522]

>>10798328
>what jobs are those?
Not exactly stem, but anyone whos worked in a kitchen during the dinner rush.

[Anonymous No.10798531]

>>10792689
>wrangle nature to get more out of it
or
>wrangle society to get more out of it
Scientists need to split their efforts between wrangling society and nature.

[Anonymous No.10798583]

>>10792765
>In science and engineering there are huge risks, but these are entirely taken by the investors.
Except that's false because most of the funding comes from government agencies and not corporations. Further, the yield of profits from science usually vastly exceeds any costs from "dull" years. It has by far one of the best returns on investment of anything, yet receives less compensation and funding.

[Anonymous No.10798601]

>>10798310
Wrong. The rich man stays rich

[Anonymous No.10799612]

>>10798531
How much?

[Anonymous No.10799713]

>>10792689
>every country with their engineering institution

[Anonymous No.10799723]

>>10794329
Workers have been screwed by fiat currency and cronyism.

[Anonymous No.10799741]

>>10798583
>Except that's false because most of the funding comes from government agencies and not corporations.
Yes that is unfortunately true and also why only 1 out of a 1000 papers is even remotely competent.

>Further, the yield of profits from science usually vastly exceeds any costs from "dull" years.

Well, when? Because you are getting your paycheck now. No one is telling you to work for nothing for 3 years until the product pays off. You are getting immediate satisfaction. It is the investor who has to postpone satisfaction and wait in agony to see if his investment will go to 0 or will actually yield something.

>It has by far one of the best returns on investment of anything, yet receives less compensation and funding.

Here's a thought: everything gets as much funding as it deserves. Just like the right price of anything is the market price.

[Anonymous No.10799751]

>>10793090
>shoulderles top

I want to nakadashi that wabbit

[Anonymous No.10800355]

>>10799751
Uhhh

[Anonymous No.10800422]

>>10798601
Rich men get made in multiple generations of success. Becoming rich is possible, but it takes luck and a lot of ability. Of course it's easier for those already on top to stay on top, but this is true in most systems.

[Anonymous No.10800426]

>>10798583
The reason you don't get paid more is that you or somebody else will do it anyway.

[Anonymous No.10800431]

>>10800426
Not if you unionize. That way nobody will do it.

[Anonymous No.10802510]

>>10794335
What are you talking about? They do plenty. Each month they collect dues, isn't that enough?

[Anonymous No.10802519]

>>10802510
This is an argument against unions, right?

[Anonymous No.10802552]

>>10802519
No, it's just redistribution of wealth. You don't have a problem with that, right?

[Anonymous No.10803318]

>>10802552
It's bad since we're already poor

[Anonymous No.10803493]

>>10802552
I object to taking dues from workers and giving that money to people who don't lift a finger, yes.

[Anonymous No.10803537]

>>10792689
Because unions still wouldn't be able to break the Jewish science publishing cabal. Fuck Elsevier and all of their "journals" with their agenda that just follows the fashions of the fields