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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/sci/ - Science & Math

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10785174 No.10785174 [Reply] [Original]

>According to the International Monetary Fund, the level of global debt is at historic highs, reaching $164 trillion in 2016.
>when this physical money includes the ones held in the accessible accounts, the amount rises to roughly $90.4 trillion
So the system is designed in a way that most people will never get their money back after loaning it? Hilarious.

>> No.10785178

Explain more, I'm curious.

>> No.10785181

>>10785174
Debt is continually being paid off and created so... no?

>> No.10785182

>>10785178
90 trillion wealth but 160 trillion debt globally

>> No.10785185

>>10785181
So debt is designed to never be paid off?

>> No.10785198

>>10785185
it's designed to make central bankers rich

>> No.10785212

>>10785174
>>>/biz/

>> No.10785225

You do realize that the money supply doesn't have to cover the debt 1:1 in order for the debt to be repayable, right?

>> No.10785231

>>10785212
biz is a bitcoin board

>> No.10785232

>>10785182
Most wealth is NOT held in cash. Also new wealth is created via labor and the utilization of capital. Here's a contrived example so brainlets like you can understand:

1. I have $0 and a tractor.
2. Bob has $0, but lots of arable land. He grants me a piece of land to start a farm on the condition that I will pay him back $x in future.
3. Total debt in system: $x. Total cash money: $0.
4. I use my labor and the tractor to work the land to grow basedbeans. I sell my basedbeans. (wealth created)
5. I pay the Bob with my profits.

>> No.10785272

>>10785174
Just cancel all debt and shoot all bankers

>> No.10785275

>>10785232
6. I pay Monsanto for the right to plant beans.
7. I pay John Deere for the right to maintenance my tractor.
8. I pay the Government for the right to run my business.
9. I hire illegal migrants to work my land so I can spend more time paying bills.
10. I lose money because the industrial farms have greater economies of scale and I can't compete on prices.
11. I vote for Trump
MAGA

>> No.10785286

>>10785185
Yes. It's designed so that your country's GDP can never beat the central banker's compounding interest.

>> No.10785318

>>10785286
GDP is garbage metric anyway. The easiest way for a government to pump GDP is to have the government buy lots of goods and services from the private sector. Government procurement and business investment are counted separately, so it can double the GDP value of every dollar spent. And of course, this is all paid for with borrowing.

>> No.10785402

>>10785275
rent free

>> No.10785435

>>10785174
Just don't pay it
Fuck the (((banks)))

>> No.10787138
File: 445 KB, 1070x1820, world-debt-2017.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10787138

>>10785174

I have a question. So who exactly is the national debt owed to?

Like if the USA suddenly "makes" 20 trillion somehow (let's say by dragging a huge asteroid made of gold and platinum to earth or something ... doesn't matter really how) and they want to pay the national debt back.

Whom do they pay?

>> No.10787150

>>10785174
How can I buy debit shares? Normies use it for everything since it's free money, how can I profit?

>> No.10787173

>>10787138
they pay boomer pensions

>> No.10787457

>>10787138

Bond holders, mainly US institutions

>>10787150

Look at shares of large retail banks.

>> No.10788512

>>10787138
Anyone can buy government bonds, they are low risk instruments that are pretty much guaranteed to be paid out

>> No.10788528

>>10785174
You don't need to get your money back if the interest payments you collect are enough to support your consumption habits.

>> No.10788534
File: 141 KB, 397x441, consumer13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10788534

>>10785174
Man... the universe will show no mercy to The Consumers at some point. It's just too bad we weren't smart enough to stop them. They've now multiplied like locusts and ensured total extinction.

>> No.10788544

>>10785272
you have to be over 18 to post here

>> No.10788555

>>10788534
>them

>> No.10788570

>>10788555
Yes. Them. I'm an only child, don't have children, haven't been on a recreational flight since 2002, don't eat out, and drive a vehicle with 300 miles on it.
You on the other hand are a big supporter of economic/population growth.

>> No.10788651

>>10787138

The best part?

We don't even need ti asteroid mine.

We could print off 20 trillion dollars, hyperinflate our currency, and use that funny money not worth the paper it's printed on to zero oit the debt.

And all those people who invested with then real dollars would be paid back and destroy any possibility of being invested in ever again.

>> No.10789673

>>10787138
>2d chart for 1d number
kill yourself

>> No.10789702

>>10787138
How is japan still solvent?

>> No.10789704

>>10789702
because they owe the debt to themselves

>> No.10789710

>>10789704
Who is (((themselves))) in the context of japanese national debt?

>> No.10789711

>>10789710
japanese banks

>> No.10790183

The faster you can move money, the faster it grows, even if it means loans.

>> No.10790187

>>10788544
but he's right you know

>> No.10790204
File: 375 KB, 2048x1536, orkland.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10790204

>>10789711

>> No.10790221

>>10788570
i bet you're covered with tattoos which is just as bad

>> No.10790223

>>10789704
>>10789711
That's true for nearly every country, foreign debt is only a small fraction of the total debt.
Japan has a good reputation and people trust them to not default or monetize their debt

>> No.10790225

>>10788570
Not having children will contribute to extinction. Have two children, and train them to be Spartans.

>> No.10790268

>>10785174
>So the system is designed in a way that most people will never get their money back after loaning it? Hilarious.
what retards do not get is that everybody holds some debts of somebody else, so in the end, most of the debts cancel out like in telescoping series.

>> No.10790282

>pick up a rock
>convince everyone in the world that the rock is worth 300 trillion
>pay debnt with rock
there you go

>> No.10790285

>>10785174
Yes and no. There is something you are not factoring: the amount of the debt that in the future will be defaulted on. This number is impossible to compute but we know exists (we could compute it with a time machine). After you substract this number, you’ll see it is sustainable.

Remember, investors are in competition with each other and economies move in boom/bust cycle. In a boom debt grows, in a bust weak hands fold and everything ia normalized. We keep track of the winner and the losers and then move on.

>> No.10790309

>>10790282
so diamonds

>> No.10790394
File: 1.63 MB, 3004x2122, Have three children, you disgusting hikkibitchi.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10790394

>>10788570
t. Degenerate Hikkibitch
Start contributing to society and have three kids along with raising them with traditional Western mores, you fucking defeatist faggot.

>> No.10790395

>>10785185
>>10785174
Debt is a fictitious concept and is not related to science.

>> No.10791200

>>10790395
All science is just weird made up stuff. Only thing that is real is my immediate perception

>> No.10791269

>>10791200
Subtle Tooker post

>> No.10792235

buimp

>> No.10793621

>>10785286
You realize central bank's profits go towards the federal budget right?

>> No.10793886

>>10787138
No one answered you fully.
Yes it's US bondholders that are owed to by the US govt, but the biggest bondholder of all is the Federal Reserve Bank, which isn't actually part of the US govt. Regular banks can print money when issuing loans, but the Federal Reserve can print money whenever they want, then they use it to buy US bonds.
In 2015 about $220 billion went to "servicing" the national debt, which just means paying interest on those bonds. A lot of the time they pay the interest on this debt by issuing even MORE debt.

So we have a non-government entity run by unelected mystery men controlling our currency by shackling the government with this insane system, and somehow nobody goes to jail. This is the same system used in every country except for a few, like Iran.

>> No.10793962

>>10793886
lmao here comes the retard who's got no clue to explain how things work

>> No.10794243

>>10785272
>Big brained far leftist/alt righter right here fellow users !
>I think we should shoot all le bankeres !
>then everyone will be rich !!
>I told my mom that if she didn't vote for Bernie I would call child support
And so on.

>> No.10794251

>>10790204
The sky tower is literally just a monument to the sheep penis that all New Zealanders crave so much.

>> No.10794257

>>10785272
bankers are certainly the most successful form of parasite to have evolved on Earth in a billion years of multicellular life

mosquitoes. leaches. lampreys. ticks. none are anywhere near as sickening and harmful to the greater ecosystem as bankers/economists/MBAs/politicians

>> No.10794266

>>10794257
Cats are much worse than all of those combined but you'll ignore it because you're a braindead toxoplasma host

>> No.10794274

>>10785272
>turn the country into a communist """"""""""utopia""""""""""
No thanks

>> No.10794279

>>10794266
>toxoplasma host
you should try it some time. It adds character.

>> No.10794282

>>10785272
>>10790187
Yeah you keep telling yourself that. One day you’ll hopefully mature, put aside your fantasies, and grasp how the world really works.

>> No.10794304

>>10793962
I expected the comprehension ability on /sci/ to be at least average, guess I was wrong

>> No.10794312

>>10794304
you have no clue how money creation works or central banks for that matter, or you suck at explaining yourself

>> No.10794343

>>10794312
Alright, let's hear yours then.

>> No.10794394

>>10787138
The worlds economy is a Ponzi scheme after all. I can't believe we live in this society

>> No.10794415

>>10794343
for starters regular banks don't print money, yes money is created in a fractional reserve system when it's loaned, but the way you phrased it is deceiving. the only institution with the authority to issue new currency is the central bank.
one of the central bank main jobs is to place (and withdraw) gov bonds onto the market via auctions (what are called open market operations) to control the money supply. the central banker isn't just a bondholder for the government, if that were the case, given that the cb profits go towards the government budget, it would be tantamount to monetizing the debt.
the independence of the cb is fundamental for a sound monetary policy, if the gov were in control of it you'd get a lot of pressure from the gov to monetize the deficit/debt and a lot higher inflation (lots of such examples throughout history)
No the gov doesn't owe money to the cb, which would be tantamount to owing money to oneself because, again people really seem to struggle to get this, the cb profits help fund the federal budget

>> No.10794440

>>10794415
>money is created in a fractional reserve system when it's loaned
how? (not him)

>> No.10794472

Debt is used to force slavery and work. Dumbass OP.

The idea is to indebt people and force them to work to pay so they never become part of the capitalist side of the equation. Debt is good. It's how you keep the serfs toiling.

>> No.10794575

>>10794440
when you put your money in a demand deposit account you have the right too withdraw at any time, but banks lend a fraction of that deposit. now when people take out a loan they usually do so for a reason, whether you're a company investing in new capital or a regular folk buying a car, that money is going into someone else's pocket who in turn will deposit at least some of it into his bank account, and so on. This is called the money multiplier and we can calculate it. in a system with no leakages where all the money is held in bank accounts is equal to the inverse of the reserve requirement. if you want to make this more realistic you have to factor in the cash to deposit ratio

>> No.10794646

>>10794575
I know about the money multiplier. I thought you were talking about the total money in circulation. Money multiplier money doesn't cause inflation.

>> No.10794658

>>10794575
Also money multiplier money is artificial because it doesn't actually exist as soon as its payed back. But when its payed back with interest it is created. I thought you were on those lines. Maybe you could elaborate

>> No.10795130

>>10794646
i never said it does, that's why i said calling it printing money is misleading

>> No.10795143

>>10785174

Yes, as the old saying goes:

"If I owe the bank $100,000, then I've got a problem. If I owe the bank $100,000,000 then the bank has a problem."

>> No.10795147

keynesian economics vs austrian economics
this should be in /biz/

>> No.10795291

>>10795147
this thread got nothing to do with that crap brainlet

>> No.10795859

>>10785232
But the money for the beans came from outside, you didn't create it

>> No.10795879

>>10785174
Capitalism is already dead.
When this shit is going to collapse, i' would like to ask again people who defend Capitalism how they feel about it.
You play with exchange value, you pay the price.

>> No.10797816

>>10785174
The kids are being sterilized. Ecological collapse is accelerating. Manual pollination has begun. Our breadbasket is underwater. The rest of the world is cooking, Australia is wasting water preventing their roads from melting.

It's over. The West will never be great again. It's your parent's fault and to a lesser extent your own as you cling to the illusions created for you, even now. As we near the brutal, bitter end.

Most of us won't survive the next 10 years.

>> No.10797820

>>10797816
Also, yes. That's the purpose of central banks, compounding interest, and usury. You're never supposed to gather the means to escape it. You can't.

>> No.10797842

>>10797816
none of this shit is happening, sucks for you

>> No.10798304

>>10794282
>being a boomer
not even once

>> No.10798329
File: 1.59 MB, 1520x1080, Serial Experiments Lain - 13.mkv_snapshot_15.02_[2013.05.24_05.02.37].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10798329

>>10797842
Sucks to wake up so late I guess.

I feel for you, anyway. Wouldn't be easy.

>> No.10798880

>>10793621
What makes you think he's American?
Also
>Profits
The Fed's "profits" come from matured Treasury bills. The Fed then gives this money back to the government. This of course happens after the Fed pays for its own operations.

>> No.10798889

>>10794415
>it would be tantamount to monetizing the debt.
But the Fed is monetizing the debt? What do you think one of the major reasons why interest rates have been marching constantly lower for decades on end?

>> No.10798897

>>10793886
>it’s the “federal reserve isn’t part of the government” meme
>>>/pol/

>> No.10799578

>>10795879

>capitalism is dead

Hey everyone. Gravity is dead because my political ideology is retarded and can't science.

>> No.10799591

>>10799578
Gravity is one of the fundamental forces of nature.
Capitalism is a system of private ownership of businesses and only exists in the framework of society.

>> No.10799606

>>10799591

Capitalism is the natural state of human interaction, even interaction of other organisms.

Hell, self sustaining chemical reactions can be described along supply and demand.

Any attempt to say, "this political system proves capitalism doesn't real" are no different than saying planes or helicopters disprove gravity.

You didn't disprove gravity, you just managed to temporarily go against matter's inclination at great cost.