Is it easier to colonize Mars or Venus?

[Anonymous No.10755630]

Here is why the answer is Venus and Marsfags are retarded.

Mars has several problems that are impossible to overcome without insane terraforming and importing trillions of tons of materials from other planets:
>low gravity
>low atmosphere
>low magnetosphere (how will you fix that one eh?)

Whereas Venus is already very earth-like, the only problem is a slow rotation (not easily fixed, but compared to Mars' problems it is). The fundamental problem with Venus is atmosphere composition. All you need to do is program some microorganism to go there and change all that CO2 into solid byproduct, there job done. It would reproduce on it's own so no extensive labor required, just shoot a test tube at Venus and wait a few decades.

The hard problem is designing the organism, but compared to Mars' problems it is child's play.

[Anonymous No.10755636]

>>10755630
>Whereas Venus is already very earth-like
Only in the most general sense.

[Anonymous No.10755638]

Venus is easier to teraform.
Mars is obviously easier to colonize. That does not make it a good idea.

[Anonymous No.10755649]

>>10755630
>All you need to do is program some microbes to convert the co2 to into solid byproduct
Good luck designing a microbe that survives 400 degrees f and a corrosive atmosphere.

[Anonymous No.10755650]

>>10755630
The surface of Venus isn't the target, living in the atmosphere is. We can send robots down to the surface if need be

[Anonymous No.10755751]

>>10755650
Who would live in a baloon few km above hell?

[Anonymous No.10755752]

it's easiest to colonize uranus

[Anonymous No.10755753]

>>10755751

I would! Humans have been satisfied for millions of years with access to sex and food.

[Anonymous No.10755772]

>>10755649
>What doth extremophiles

[Anonymous No.10755951]

>>10755630
Its easier to heat things up that cool them down.

Good luck with Venus. At this point not only it is so hot anything organic gets toasted if it tries to reach the surface, its going to be a multi-eon project as well.

>>10755650
Yes, you could do that, but seriously, I never understood the point.

You dont have access to metals and mining. You are basically a fancy form of the ISS. You are completely bound to resupply missions to grow and expand! (ok, fine, maybe you could get carbon out of the atmosphere or something).

Frankly if anyone thinks this has merit, might as well "colonize" the Earth's atmosphere first! And in that one if you accidentally mess up the approach, you dont fall into hell.

[Anonymous No.10755970]

well there is always that magneto satelite running nuclear that can be put up to shield mars, or maybe multiples. When it comes to venus what do we got? Flying cities with little to no acess to the surface. If you can't stip mine it why bother?

[Anonymous No.10756156]

>>10755951
>I never understood the point.

[Anonymous No.10756164]

>>10755951
>might as well "colonize" the Earth's atmosphere first!
If I ever get fuck-you rich I am going to buy the biggest blimp I can and convert it into a luxury yacht that only comes down to resupply.
My toilet is just going to be an opening in the floor where I shit and piss on everyone.

[Anonymous No.10756175]

>>10756164
You'd be like the Captain Nemo of the sky!

[Anonymous No.10756181]

>>10755630
Venus because the gravity on Venus is near Earth gravity. On Mars you'd just have Jello Babies and increasingly poor health. Anyone who mentions "terraforming" as a legit method for anything is an absolute high-tier pop-sci faggot.

[Anonymous No.10756183]

>>10756164
>comes down to resupply.
No need. you can use a hangar on board to have supply craft resupply you.

[Anonymous No.10756201]

>inb4 10 million people on Mars before the first floating science proof of concept unmanned outpost on Ve-Hell

[Anonymous No.10756288]

Put orbiting habitats around both of them first, then let's talk about colonizing them directly.

[Anonymous No.10756299]

>>10755630
colonize =/= terraform

[Anonymous No.10756307]

>>10756181
Can that bus really fit 145 people?

[Anonymous No.10756367]

>>10756307
>New Flyer XDE60: 59 Passengers
>Nova Bus LFS: 65 Passengers
>Van Hool AGG300: 75 Passengers
>Volvo 7900 Hybrid Articulated: 154 Passengers
>Neoplan Jumbocruiser: 170 Passengers
>Hess LighTram 02795: 180 Passengers
>0530 Mercedes-Benz GL CapaCity: 176-193 Passengers
>Rede Integrada De Transport: 250 Passengers
>Autotram Extra-Grand: 256 Passengers
>Youngman JNP6280G Bus: 300 Passengers

Depends on which bus it is, but probably.

[Anonymous No.10756404]

>>10755630
both are stupid

i am not taking any elon muskses seriously if they can't fix global warming first

i wanna see more earth technology not space shit

[Anonymous No.10756419]

>>10755951
The atmosphere provides practically everything you need to make more habitats. With the hydrogen, carbon, nitrogen, fluorine, chlorine, sulfur, and oxygen you can make a wide variety of polymers and composites. And again, you can extract metals from the surface using robots. There's even ferric chloride at 1% concentrations in the clouds.
https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2016-04/miop-dso042616.php
This can be extracted practically through fog netting to collect the cloud droplets. So no you aren't reliant on resupply missions.
>>colonize earth's atmosphere
is much more difficult because the atmosphere isn't as dense.

[Anonymous No.10756439]

>>10756419
What you are talking about is retardedly difficult and hugely energy intensivr compared to dropping a tunnel boring machine on Mars and drilling out kilometres of ready to go habitats. Also good luck creating a robot that can mine reliably at Venus surface temo and pressure lmao, then you still have to get the ore back up.

Venusfags are braindead.

[Anonymous No.10756456]

Venus floating city is worse than an o'neill cylinder in every way

[Anonymous No.10756538]

>>10756439
prove it. Venus is also close to the sun meaning solar irradience is 2.6 KW/m2. In addition, if you are above the clouds solar cells also work facing down because the clouds reflect so much light.
media.cleveland.com/science_impact/other/Landis Venus atmospheric flight study 2002.pdf
>>creating a robot that can mine reliably at Venus surf tem[p]
the pressure isn't a problem. Sure it makes the atmosphere supercritical CO2 and things get interest in terms of corrosion, but the main issue is temperature. Silicon doesn't semiconduct at these temperatures, however silicon carbide based electronics work fine. As for getting them back up we can use an airplane. In the future we can use a tether made of colossal carbon tubes to lift stuff from the surface. Colossal carbon tubes have a breaking length of ~6000km, which should be sufficient for making a >70km tether to reach the surface. And again there's IRON in the clouds layer in the form of ferric chloride. By doing fognetting, we can collect cloud droplets which contain 1% ferric chloride more or less passively.

[Anonymous No.10756618]

>>10756538
>Need to make miles and miles of balloons to hold solar panels to make miles and miles of balloons

Retard

>Carbon tubes

Meme

Just accept that while Venus may happen in the future, Mars is an infinitely superior first target.

[Anonymous No.10756845]

>>10755751
A Colt 45 drinker.

[Anonymous No.10756874]

>>10755772
No known microbe can survive more than 270 degrees Fahrenheit for more than a few minutes.

[Anonymous No.10756897]

>>10756874
Not known to you*
270... f...... lol

[Anonymous No.10756910]

>Is it easier to colonize Mars or Venus?

I pick door number three.

[Anonymous No.10756936]

>>10755630
In the end it doesn't matter what humans do, we won't be able to colonize either because life doesn't exist on either planet, period. Living for extended periods of time in any planet besides earth that we identified will end up causing disastrous consequences. We did not evolve on any other planet, no complex life has as far as we know.

Face it guys, we really only have two choices. Either we take our planet's climatic instability a lot more seriously than we're doing now or we better pray Ayyys exist and they'll share their space traveling secrets with us so we can colonize planets much farther away from earth.

[Anonymous No.10756965]

>>10756936
>In the end it doesn't matter what humans do, we won't be able to colonize either because life doesn't exist on either planet, period.

Doesn’t have any relevance. Imported life can survive.contained within controlled environments.

>Living for extended periods of time in any planet besides earth that we identified will end up causing disastrous consequences.

Prove it,

> We did not evolve on any other planet, no complex life has as far as we know.

Irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.10757017]

>>10756965
I don't have to prove anything, nature already did. No life has evolved in either of the two planets, even imported life that didn't evolve there won't survive for very long. A few years maybe, but nowhere near enough to use as a backup planet for humanity.

If you really think we can create a controlled environment that can sustain an entire human population for generations then I don't know what to say other than for now I think you're delusional.

[Anonymous No.10757029]

>>10757017
>I don't have to prove anything

Dropped.

[Anonymous No.10757030]

>>10757017
Air, water and food are all producable anywhere in the solar system with ice and volatiles. What's your fucking argument.

[Anonymous No.10757060]

>>10757030
I don't think you understand we can't just replace things our bodies became accustomed to for thousands of years, what you're arguing is we can just artificially replace things in a human's environment and not expect other side effects to come from these changes. Until I see experiments done with animals that can survive for decades on another 'controlled' environment and not come back with significant physiological changes I'm not going to change my stance on the matter. Earth is earth and Mars/Venus are no substitute by natural means.

[Anonymous No.10757086]

>>10757030
>I don't think you understand we can't just replace things our bodies became accustomed to for thousands of years,

Prove your claim that we can not.
Humans need air. Air is composed of 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen, approximately.
The oxygen can be found in water ice and oxide minerals which are both plentiful in the solar. System. The nitrogen can also be found in minerals and isn’t depleted as we breath, so it’s less of a concern. Zero mechanical difference exists between O2 on Earth and O2 from somewhere else. Zero mechanical difference exists between nitrogen gas here and nitrogen gas somewhere else. You are delusional.

Humans need water. Zero mechanical difference exists between H2O on Earth and H2O somewhere else. The molecules are functionally identical in every way. H2O is plentiful in the solar system. You are delusional.

>food

Grow it dumbass. Comes out just like plants do here.

>Until I see experiments done with animals that can survive for decades on another 'controlled' environment and not come back with significant physiological changes I'm not going to change my stance on the matter.

Your position is the one that needs to be proven.

>Earth is earth and Mars/Venus are no substitute by natural means.

No one cares what’s “natural”. It’s irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.10757101]

>>10757086
>Your position is the one that needs to be proven.

I don't think you can prove your position either anon. We're talking about complex chemistry here, not basic chemistry.

There are other factors you're clearly not taking into consideration, most importantly the human factor. Besides having to provide artificial gravity and adequate protection from weather related effects including radiation, you're forgetting humans depend exclusively on these 'controlled' environments to survive. There is no other way around this. Meaning if for some reason these environments are compromised or malfunction and we're unable to repair them, we're dead. Considering how humans can't even exist for a century without a war or politically related issue, what makes you think an entire population of humans can survive in a contained environment on another planet?

Taking all this into consideration, it's unlikely something like this would work for very long unless you limited the human population with very strict regulations. We both know people don't like having too much of their freedom restricted.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on this issue because it's clear to me neither of us can prove whether or not colonizing Mars/Venus would work.

[Anonymous No.10757129]

>>10757101
>I don't think you can prove your position either anon.

It’s not the one with the burden of proof.

>We're talking about complex chemistry here, not basic chemistry.

Air and water isn’t complex chemistry, so no we are not. Tanks of Chlorella can do all the air work itself.

>Besides having to provide artificial gravity

Non-concern on Venus. Weaker gravitational fields can be countered with genetic engineering or cybernetics to cut out the issue entirely.

>and adequate protection from weather related effects including radiation

Luckily humans invented a solution to that tens of thousands of years ago. We call it walls. A few meters of rock would also do the trick.

>you're forgetting humans depend exclusively on these 'controlled' environments to survive

No I’m not.

>Meaning if for some reason these environments are compromised or malfunction and we're unable to repair them, we're dead.

Redundancy, pressure suits, and robots. You’d be an awful engineer.

>Considering how humans can't even exist for a century without a war

Switzerland hasn’t been in a war for over 150 years.

>what makes you think an entire population of humans can survive in a contained environment on another planet?

Because we’re not as violence prone as you delusionaly believe.

>Taking all this into consideration, it's unlikely something like this would work for very long unless you limited the human population with very strict regulations.

The population should expand rapidly as the settlement develops in situ. It’s as simple as digging more rooms out of the Martian bedrock.

>We're going to have to agree to disagree on this issue because it's clear to me neither of us can prove whether or not colonizing Mars/Venus would work.

It’d work. You’re just pessimistic and misanthropic.

[Anonymous No.10757157]

>>10757129

By complex chemistry I was talking about human chemistry, chemistry in living creatures. I'm well aware we can find a way to get natural resources like water and air.

>Non-concern on Venus. Weaker gravitational fields can be countered with genetic engineering or cybernetics to cut out the issue entirely.

Then you're going to resort to genetically modifying people, might as well just admit there are things we can't overcome unless we forcefully adapt to them. One of my points exactly.

I'll stop right there, I can tell you broke down the rest of my post but can't realistically paint a scenario you claim can exist. It hasn't existed up until now on any planet. Pessimistic, yes but I don't consider myself misanthropic just aware of the terrible things humanity has done in the past and still does to this day. Using Switzerland as an example is good but not quite what I'd expect in a long term scenario if we're talking about colonizing in space.

[Anonymous No.10757232]

>>10757157
Even if lower than 1g is detrimental outside of 0g, which you have no sources to prove, this can be countered with rotating bowl habitats or gravity trains.

You have literally no argument, everything here can be replicated elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.10757275]

>>10755630
None of the options since space is unreachable for many reasons

The main one being that there is a firmament above the skies

[Anonymous No.10757285]

>>10757232
Then why isn't it happening? Why do I see people like Tyson agreeing with me? What you propose is very logical on paper, yes but I think the moment you apply your reasoning in the real world you'll notice there are variables and relationships you're not considering. Not even engineers like Elon Musk know them. If it was as simple as you claim it would be done, until we construct even a small colony with a community of several thousand humans living for decades AND successfully reproducing, it's just an idea.

[Anonymous No.10757296]

>>10757285
Because launch costs from Earth is too much kg/$, but that is changing. Is this your first space thread?

>Neill degrass Tyson

Literal fucking popsci brainlet

[Anonymous No.10757851]

>>10757296
Money is also of course a reason these things dont happen, high speed transportation? Resorting to fuel cells for short term solution to alt energy vehicles?

It's less costly to just take responsibility for what we have now and improve on things we already know work. We dont have to pour billions/trillions of dollars on something we dont need. Tyson might not be the guy you'll hear out but like I said not even Elon Musk knows for certain we can successfully colonize Mars. He's just like you, optimistic but he cant guarantee we wont run into potentially serious problems, nobody can guarantee that.

[Anonymous No.10757914]

>>10756404
Why not both? You do realize that BOTH are being done right? There is no one tech conglomerate who controls all R&D or anything else for all of humanity, who dictates what should or shouldn't be done. "We need to," type of statements are high order ignorance about how the world works. Humanity will never work towards a common goal; unless there's only 1 human left in existence.

[Anonymous No.10757940]

>>10755649
upper atmosphere is earthlike temperature and pressure

[Anonymous No.10757946]

>>10756419
wow that's amazing, I'm sold on Venus casino-blimp-cities now

[Anonymous No.10757950]

>>10756456
which is worse than Mars, lol, but I'm convinced all three are possible

[Anonymous No.10757952]

>>10755630
>low atmosphere
>low magnetosphere (how will you fix that one eh?)

Not an issue. Just build your habitats several meters underground, problem solved.

>low gravity

Only real problem for a Mars colony. We dont know the effects of 0.38g.

[Anonymous No.10757959]

>>10755630
Venus gravity is too high. You would need a huge two stage rocket and launch pad, same as on Earth, to leave the planet. Except that it must be floating in the fucking atmosphere, too.

Hence Venus colonization is a total meme.

[Anonymous No.10757998]

>>10757914
>type of statements are high order ignorance
no u

enjoy falling for scams

>Humanity will never work towards a common goal; unless there's only 1 human left in existence.
the market clearly wants shit like the smartphone revolution, the internet, etc... that's where the innovation is at. elon musk is just a conman who didn't and can't revolutionize shit

[Anonymous No.10757999]

>>10757950
They are all possible, just not probable. While Elon is correct that a space station colony would require an assload of money and resources to construct. However, a space station colony is the most viable for actually starting a colony, due to the reduced need for all the problems associated with Venus (needs to float) or Mars (gravity issue.) "Colony" in this meaning a place where people will be raising generations of families, not just a "base" where people won't be raising families.

In order of probability:

Mars Colony: High, because of ease of access and low start up cost.
Space Station Colony: Medium, because of very high start up costs.
Venus Colony: Very Low, due to the high cost of flotation requirement and acidic atmosphere.

In order of long term viability:

Space Station Colony: High, because of the ability to control the environment, radiation shielding, and inertial gravity perfectly. Cheaper to move things from since there's no gravity well to get out of.
Mars Colony: Medium, due to cheapness factor and more available resources. The gravity issue can be worked around using novel, but bothersome methods.
Venus: Very low, because the high cost of flotation requirement and acidic atmosphere.

Basically, a Venus colony would be similar to a Space Station Colony, since all the resources must be shipped in. Only you have the possibility of crashing all the time, need to keep it afloat in an unstable environment, and the atmosphere is acidic which constantly eats away at literally everything faster than being on an ocean liner at sea.

[Anonymous No.10758000]

>>10755772
They don't live in a waterless environment. Venus is a hot corrosive water desert.

[Anonymous No.10758003]

>>10757998
>inability to read what you are quoting
>spouting unrelated things

Stop posting already.

[Anonymous No.10758008]

>>10757999
>gravity issue
no such issue exists

[Anonymous No.10758012]

>>10758003
>inability to read what you are quoting
>spouting unrelated things
also no u
kys

[Anonymous No.10758020]

>>10758008
>0.38g
>no problem

Oh my, summer child.

[Anonymous No.10758027]

>>10758020
>>>/x/
you have no data

[Anonymous No.10758045]

>>10758027
>>10758008
That would be really nice. If we all lived in a fantasy world. lol

[Anonymous No.10758050]

>>10758045
you mean like you?
we'll see if your pessimism bears rotten fruit

[Anonymous No.10758166]

>>10758020
>dat scoliosis

[Anonymous No.10758169]

>>10758045
kill this thing immediately

[Anonymous No.10758231]

>>10757285
>Then why isn't it happening?
Do you have a few trillion dollars I could borrow for an investment that might not ever show returns?

[Anonymous No.10758276]

>>10757129
>>10757129
>Non-concern on Venus. Weaker gravitational fields can be countered with genetic engineering or cybernetics
Most Americans deliberately vote against publicly funded healthcare to spite 'welfare niggers' and spics. Do you seriously think the average braindead voter is going to be forward thinking enough to allow MUH TAXES to be spent on genetically modified cyborgs on another planet? As soon as a republican gets elected president your colony of Eldritch horrors is going to starve to death.

[Anonymous No.10758312]

>>10758050
>>10758027
>>10758169
>>10758166
>>10758020
>>10758045
science facts

[Anonymous No.10758355]

>>10758312
but anon all you need to do is to invest money on it

[Anonymous No.10758357]

>>10758355
we don't have any data points between 1g good 0g bad
there's no telling

[Anonymous No.10758384]

>>10758276
Really, so why don''t they vote to keep them out in the first place?

Tax-livestock can be manipulated into almost anything if you frame it convincingly. What do republicans have to do with anything? What does that even mean when everyone is sickeningly neoliberal? Fascists would have a better chance of colonizing space, desu.

[Anonymous No.10758455]

>>10757940
Creatures like bacteria need water, which does not exist on venus and cannot be imported in necessary quantities. This planet is doomed.

[Anonymous No.10758514]

>>10756288
This is a great idea. That Moon "gate" thing in NASA plans seems feasible. Sure, ressuply and shit, but it is a start, and close to the targets.

[Anonymous No.10758522]

>>10755630
I just want a drone blimp probe sent to the upper atmosphere of Venus to make weather measurements to see if blimp sky lab over Venus is even feasible.

Blimp sky lab would be pretty cool

[Anonymous No.10758895]

>>10755752
How clever! So funny! OMG! Hahaha did you guys get it?
Fuck you retard.

[Prof Sai No.10759692]

>>10756181

The problem with this is... what if those people aren't going where the bus goes? What if they all live in different places? What if it's -10°F outside and the bus stop is two blocks away?

[Anonymous No.10759695]

>>10759692
wear a jacket or walk

[Prof Sai No.10759698]

>>10756910

Agree. The drawbacks to either planet outweigh any benefit. Especially Venus - how is floating in a sulfuric atmosphere above hell in any way better than deep space?

[Prof Sai No.10759704]

>>10759695
>wear a jacket or walk

Face reality. People die like that.

[Anonymous No.10759711]

>>10757914
Actually people can work together towards a common goal up until there's about 200 of them, any more than that and they begin to divide into factions and work against each other. 200 is our maximum tribe size.

[Anonymous No.10759784]

>>10759711
Well yeah, the smaller the size the easier it is to agree on important objectives. The problem I see with space colonization is nobody really wants to do it anytime soon, what for? It's not Elon Musk's fault either, people saying he fails in bringing the space revolution forget the simple fact the majority of people don't care about space colonization. I'm sure they're more worried about preserving this world, as should the rest of us. We don't have the technology to create long term colonization for barren wastelands like Mars. Until we can terraform it enough so it can resemble something close to earth, humans won't want to live there. I don't think it would be feasible to sustain entire populations in the millions the way we do here, having everyone locked up in structures with artificially created environments. I don't see it happening, I think it's A LOT more reasonable to create an outpost like a military or research installation but not an artificially created world in the likeness of earth for people to live for centuries and beyond.

When someone has a plan to restore Mars's magnetic field then I think we have something to start with if we were serious about terraforming a planet with the intention of creating a backup world for humans.

[Anonymous No.10760252]

>>10758522
that is unthinkable, it would probably go all the way from 70 C to something very negative all the time and you wouldn't be able to build anything because everything is corrosive

it would be crazy expensive to even maintain it, there wouldn't be any reliable way to extract any resources, it would be impossible to operate any kind of machinery on the surface because of the pressure, it really isn't any different from mars apart from the gravity that is probably manageable

[Anonymous No.10760275]

just hook everybody up in a simulation ala matrix and be done with it.

[Anonymous No.10760315]

>going for venus
>not Mercury with its infinite energy source readily available water and resources

[Anonymous No.10760917]

>>10755751
>who would go on a ship a few km above the abyss
physics doesnt stop working because of your phobia anon

[Anonymous No.10760922]

>>10756183
amazon is just out of fucking control at this point

[Anonymous No.10760923]

>>10756439
>getting it back up
>a problem
The same density that allows you to have a floating city means you can retrieve vast amounts of weight with no effort by storing a cylinder of liquid lightweight gas and expanding it into a balloon.

[Anonymous No.10760924]

>>10760252
Because light is on the spectrum, autism is a neurological condition.

[Anonymous No.10760926]

>>10760315
>readily available water
do you know something about mercury that we don't?

[Anonymous No.10760928]

>>10757017
>implicitly his stance suggests he has an understanding of the specifics of cosmic (a)bio genesis
>makes concrete claim with no experimental evidence
>i dont have to prove

>calls other anons delusional

This is peak schizo posting.

[Anonymous No.10760929]

>>10760928
thanks, anon

[Anonymous No.10760932]

>>10760924
wrong thread

[Anonymous No.10760951]

>>10757285
>Then why isn't it happening?
Fucking lol kid. You start out hardline saying it cant happen, get BTFO, so you move on to this?
Shouldnt you be in summer school?

[Anonymous No.10760961]

>>10757157
>Then you're going to resort to genetically modifying people, might as well just admit there are things we can't overcome unless we forcefully adapt to them. One of my points exactly.

We can and must forcefully adapt ourselves to overcome any obstacles and obtain maximum self-actualization, or we will perish. We do not want to do the latter.

[Anonymous No.10760964]

>>10758020
>We have the technology to colonize Ceres
>We still have bones at this time

Wheeze

[Anonymous No.10760979]

>>10758276
>Most Americans deliberately vote against publicly funded healthcare to spite 'welfare niggers' and spics.

No they don’t. That’s ridiculous. Support for national healthcare in the U.S is over 50% now and I doubt the people that disagree with the idea all do it because of racism.

>Do you seriously think the average braindead voter is going to be forward thinking enough to allow MUH TAXES to be spent on genetically modified cyborgs on another planet?

They don’t actually have a real say on where their taxes go in the U.S.

>As soon as a republican gets elected president

Okay so we colonize other planets with robotic dudes once the boomers die of old age. I’m fine waiting that long. It’s also a semi-reasonable timeframe for the technological advancements necessary.

[Anonymous No.10760989]

>>10760928
No, anon has a point. This has never happened before with complex organisms and unless the anon defending mars colonization has proof it can work with scientific data his point is just as moot. Neither side can prove their stance.

[Anonymous No.10760991]

>>10760989
as the marsman what I'm suggesting is that we'll never know until we try, so we should try and then keep trying until it works

[Anonymous No.10761010]

>>10760961
So you're willing to go that far even if it means transplanting your brain in a cybernetic body? This is crazy talk anon, you know it is. The human skeletal structure will change, I dont know to what extent but it will. We also dont know what else the differences in gravity will do to us among other differences. We dont have years worth of that kind of data.

[Anonymous No.10761114]

>>10761010
>So you're willing to go that far even if it means transplanting your brain in a cybernetic body?

I would abandon flesh without even a moment’s hesitation if it means I can feel the crunch of Martian regolith under my steel feet; watch the Sun set and rise upon Olympus Mons through cameras mounted on my chassis, and daydream on its slopes. To trek endlessly through her barren valleys, and to rest upon her toxic soil. I would zoom in on the blue dot in the sky, and think about the countless billions of humans that lived their entire lives upon its surface thinking Mars was some sort of deity, and wonder what great, unimaginable things those that come after me may see and achieve. My only regret would be that I am unable to weep without tear ducts. To be privileged with such an experience, I can not imagine.

But I know enough about myself to be aware that Mars would never satisfy me. If my lifespan allows for it, I would seek new vistas. Glide through the eternal midnight of Europa’s underbelly, and witness the mountains of ice on Pluto. After all that is here has been seen, I would like to take the final plunge, and be hurtled into the interstellar void, never to return. My lust can never, ever be quenched with mere rocks and ice. I must seek out those who share our universe, or die in the attempt. Nothing else matters.

Salvete quicumque estis; bonam erga vos voluntatem habemus, et pacem per astra ferimus

[Anonymous No.10761141]

>>10755630
Mars.

The amount of mass necessary to shield Venus to shut off its runaway climate cycle is too large for a one-planet civilization to muster.

[Anonymous No.10761437]

>>10760979
The average conservative voter's reasoning is usually along the lines of "WHY SHOULD I CONTRIBUTE TO SOMETHING THAT MIGHT BENEFIT SOMEONE BESIDES ME???"

[Anonymous No.10761453]

>>10760926
>https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/text/messenger_pr_20121129.txt

[Anonymous No.10761470]

>>10761437
you just described an average leftist voter, by far the most vocal opponents of funding for space exploration are socialists who think it is a mere toy for the rich and the money should go to welfare

[Anonymous No.10761479]

>>10761470
Completely false and only stupid redneck could say something like that.

[Anonymous No.10761482]

>>10761479
shut up, bourgeoisie

[Anonymous No.10761536]

>>10761470
>you just described an average leftist voter

What are you talking about?

>by far the most vocal opponents of funding for space exploration are socialists who think it is a mere toy for the rich and the money should go to welfare

This is a contradiction from your first statement. Holy shit. You are dumb. Welfare benefits other people.

[Anonymous No.10761582]

Just imagine all the 'basedboy' and manlet memes stormfags would spread about Mars colonists. I can already see it: Donald Trump 2032 : Mars has to pay! We're getting ripped off! Cut funding for WELFARE ALIENS!

[Anonymous No.10761822]

>>10755630
>low gravity
Which we don't even know is even significant and, unless it's somehow worse than microgravity, is still manageable
>low atmosphere
Much easier to function in a near vacuum than under 1km of water's worth of pressure - ground level is where the resources are. Also far easier to heat what's effectively the Solar Systems largest thermos (your Mars colony) than to cool everything down so you don't start literally cooking. You can go with the cloud city meme but again, resources are on the ground.
>low magnetosphere (how will you fix that one eh?)
Live underground and spend less than half your day outside? Live as long as any radiation worker in America.
If you really want it fixed, a shit tonne of solar power generation and a fuckhuge magnet in a lagrange point.
> slow rotation not easily fixed, but compared to Mars' problems it is
Lolno
>All you need to do is program some microorganism to go there and change all that CO2 into solid byproduct, there job done.
Which needs to survive the leadmeltingly hot atmosphere with no water, somehow get energy through said thick atmosphere to sequester all 2000 gigatonnes of CO2 and reproduce fast enough to do it all on a submilennia timescale.
Tell you what, you whip up a viable organism to do all that, and I'll sell everything I own to send it to Venus.
>>10757060
So your argument is basically that Earth has some magical intangible quality necessary for human life that's completely unreplicatable even with future technological advances. This is homeopath tier bs. Like oxygen split from water and nitrogen taken from the an alien atmosphere has memory and remembers its origin so it can poison humans.
Fuck Biosphere 2 closed the loop for 2 years 3 decades ago and it had a bunch of arbitrary restrictions on it trying to replicate real biomes, let alone what will be possible in a few decades without those restrictions, with ISRU and with more than 8 people.

[Anonymous No.10761828]

>>10761822
>Which needs to survive the leadmeltingly hot atmosphere with no water, somehow get energy through said thick atmosphere to sequester all 2000 gigatonnes of CO2 and reproduce fast enough to do it all on a submilennia timescale.
the microbes would be effective in the upper atmosphere, where there are earthlike temperatures and pressures
they can float there on the winds in algae-like colonies
the lack of water is a serious issue, but can't it be synthesized from sulfuric acid and carbon dioxide?

[Anonymous No.10761829]

>>10760922
That vid is fake

[Anonymous No.10762115]

>>10756419
The densest the clouds get is 0.1g/m3. 0.1g of 1% solution and that 1% solute is like 1/3 iron by mass.
>>10757101
By knowing that everybody dies if they fuck up? We've been able to end this ecosystem for decades and still haven't.
We're also completely dependent on technology now. If all the computers simultaneously failed literal billions of people would die. But they don't because we don't just have 1 of each thing and the entire system can self replicate.
>>10757851
Both of those have a lot more problems than money. And neither are getting cheaper and easier at a similar rate as launch costs.
>>10758020
>>10758312
Linking an image of another anon repeating your opinion is not data or proof.
>>10760917
You float/can swim in water. And people can come rescue you.
Also few people actually live on ships in the middle of the ocean long term. They use them to get places or live on them near places.
>>10760923
A balloon that survives 500 degrees and inflates under 90atms and provides enough density difference to go all the way to 1atm?

[Anonymous No.10762179]

>>10762115
passive harvesting though. You can always bring material up with an airplane.

[Anonymous No.10763248]

>>10755630
Venus if you just want to do it for bragging rights, Mars if you want to do anything useful with it/have it be self sustaining.
hint hint: You're not getting any minerals from the atmosphere, so how the fuck do you have automated machines working under a hundred atmosphere of pressure, corrosive conditions and 400C? Don't delude yourself into thinking you'd have the power to cool the sensitive internal electronics and mechanical parts. It's not even clear how you'd power them at all (fucking wind? long ass cables? batteries?! RTGs?).
>>10755650
no.

[Anonymous No.10763272]

>>10755752
your anus haha now I get it

[Anonymous No.10763382]

the fuck, is captcha fucked here too?

[Anonymous No.10763394]

allowing any colonization of anything before we get earth back in line is a brutally inhumane guaranteed death sentence for earth.
It allows capitalists and billionaires an unchecked opportunity to exploit and abuse Earth and those who can not afford to flee it from afar in a well nigh impenetrable stronghold

[Anonymous No.10763408]

>>10763394
If we make it succesfully as space niggers fuck earth.

[Anonymous No.10763710]

Mars' problems are eaiser to solve than Venus'.

A station produce a large magnetic field at the Mars-Sun L1 will shield the planet from solar and cosmic rays. Allowing allowing the atmosphere to build up some naturally.

Then Mars can be further built up by crashing ice asteroids and comets into the planet. Adding co2 and water.

Eventually you'll get an acceptable atmosphere. Not necessarily earth sea level, but enough to ditch pressure suits and arctic clothing.

The gravity problem is overcome with transhumanism.

[Anonymous No.10763714]

>>10763710
there isn't enough asteroid mass in the whole solar system to provide Mars with an acceptable atmosphere
honestly you're better off just strip-mining the whole thing out and turning it into a factory

[Anonymous No.10763730]

>>10756181
>jello babies

Source? I'm unaware of any long term tests on Human suitability in 1/3 G.

[Anonymous No.10763770]

>>10763714
>there isn't enough asteroid mass in the whole solar system to provide Mars with an acceptable atmosphere

Hit it with a gas giant moon or TNO

[Anonymous No.10764131]

>>10755630
>>10755630
> Low gravity
Not a huge problem. Even in zero G you mostly just have to eat right and exercise. It could potentially cause issues on a developing skeleton but we just don't know yet
>no atmosphere
Doesn't need one initially. Colonies could be built in the large underground caverns and caves imaged by satellites. In fact it actually solves the Martian dust storm issue too. There is no rush to terraform.
>no magneto-sphere
Several designs for an artificial high powered magnet-satelite to he placed in Mars orbit creating an artificial magneto-sphere already exist. This is a problem we can solve with existing real world tech. We would just need a metric fuck ton of copper

Venus on the other hand is far too hot for current tech to handle for extended periods, the atmosphere is wild and corrosive, and it would be harder to terraform. Also, Venus lacks a magneto-sphere just like Mars.

The real question is why not both? I have no doubt that a few thousand years from now both planets will he thriving garden worlds transformed by mankind into majestic colonies. Or at least working industrial colonies, in addition to countless Oneill cylinder colonies, ring worlds, and maybe even a Dyson swarm around the sun. You can't stop the March of progress.

[Anonymous No.10764214]

>>10755752
Never gets old. Don't @ me faggots.

[Anonymous No.10764262]

>>10763714
You only need 55 kPa at Mars Sea Level. Which is the air pressure at the earth's highest town in Peru.

[Anonymous No.10764379]

>NASA is making a clockwork rover to send to Venus
>Clockwork
I-is it finally time?

[Anonymous No.10764540]

>>10760989
>data his point is just as moot
no it isnt because he has proposed an experiment, the other anon essentially just said "nuh uh because i said so"

[Anonymous No.10764569]

>>10762115
>A balloon that survives 500 degrees and inflates under 90atms and provides enough density difference to go all the way to 1atm?
Yes, buoyancy doesnt stop working on venus. How did you think they raise ships and wreckage from extreme depth?
>You float/can swim in water.
Many areas of water on the planet that people routinely traverse are almost as lethal as the clouds of venus (for the purposes of this point), if you fall into the north atlantic you are dead from exposure in minutes , yet people do so because they know that the ship they are on is properly engineered. To put it in perspective, a properly designed venusian habitat would be safer than any aircraft on earth.

[Anonymous No.10765457]

>>10764569
>Yes, buoyancy doesnt stop working on venus. How did you think they raise ships and wreckage from extreme depth?
The problem isn't any one of those, the problem is doing all of them at the same time.
Airtight, and flexible enough to expand while still being durable enough to survive the temperature and chemical environment and it needs to start at a low enough pressure to make the trip without regulation and has to withstand a 90 atm differential. Or it needs pumps, valves, sensing etc all open to the elements to actively control the internal pressure and all the equipment needs to also survive the incredibly hostile environment though at least you can use don't need to use a flexible lifting body then.
And it needs to do all that economically and while being light enough and providing enough lift to actually carry a significant amount of material.
And it needs to survive 500 mile per hour winds on the way up.
Transport to and from the surface? Possible. Doing it on a large enough scale to supply a self sustaining colony cheaply enough? Good luck.
>if you fall into the north atlantic you are dead from exposure in minutes , yet people do so because they know that the ship they are on is properly engineered. To put it in perspective, a properly designed venusian habitat would be safer than any aircraft on earth.
And people aren't exactly clamoring to seastead on the north atlantic either, are they?
People work there sure, but that's a far cry from living there. The people that do go out do their job and come back. They don't move there, raise children, retire there.

[Anonymous No.10765461]

>>10756164
yfw some roodypoo shoots it with a rifle

[Anonymous No.10767606]

>>10756156
Why not?