/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10741255]

Why didn't every animal evolve to be poisonous when eaten?

[Anonymous No.10741264]

>>10741255
>get eaten
>animal that ate me dies after eating me
wow this really increases my chances of reproducing!

[Anonymous No.10741267]

>>10741255
Because then all the animals eating them would keep dying, creating a selective pressure that would lead to the few who could eat the poisonous prey without dying to multiply and become the new standard predator.
So those things would balance each other out basically.

[Anonymous No.10741272]

>>10741264
If you're poison but still getting eaten you're at least killing off the predators best able to catch and eat you, which will promote the success of predators who get food elsewhere instead.

[Anonymous No.10741281]

why didnt animals evolve to be invincible

[Anonymous No.10741296]

>>10741264
Wouldn't that discourage the fitness of said predator? Some animals do it, so there's clearly a niche for it. Is there some enormous caloric cost to producing the poison that makes it not worth it?

[Anonymous No.10741299]

>>10741255
Because the animal that didn't die after eating them would grow to powerful and take over the world

[Anonymous No.10741301]

Darwinian evolution isn't complete

[Anonymous No.10741349]

But they did, just the dosage varies! The bigger the vains the more damaging the meat, if they appear not poisonous because some with small circulatory systems can be instantly lethal!

So a fish and a chicken will poison you less than a cow or a piglet! Some used to call this the poisoned fruit aka tree of life, on some scale anyway!

[Anonymous No.10741361]

>>10741296
To be poisonous it generally means the creature has to develop some proteins that must interfere with basic life processes of another organism (such as blocking channels or inhibiting a critical reaction), the proteins must be able to survive the digestive system to effectively kill their target, and finally it has to be somehow not toxic to the organism itself, which necessitates some mechanism for bypassing the poison. These are all pretty nontrivial requirements.

[Anonymous No.10741595]

>>10741255
Because it has a biological cost.

[Anonymous No.10741608]

>>10741255
Every animal is poisonous when eaten, it just takes a long time to kill the predator. Everyone who eats an animal eventually dies.

[Anonymous No.10741612]

>>10741255
Not enough points

[Anonymous No.10741623]

>>10741608
Based Vegan

[Anonymous No.10741629]

Atomic redpill:
They did.
/thread

[Anonymous No.10741646]

>>10741255
Sometimes predation can be beneficial to a species. If a certain species numbers grow beyond a cnsiderable margin there subsistence can be threatened by a lack of resources, predation can keep numbers at an appropiate ecological level, allowing both the survival and continuation a species and it's continuous genetic adaptation by killing of it's weakest members.

Also to a certain extent natural pathogens and toxins ingested during the animals life found in raw meat can have a dangerous effect on predators, so developing your own toxins might not even be necessary.

[Anonymous No.10741690]

If all predators die, the food chain won't work anymore.

[Anonymous No.10741814]

>>10741255
Evolution doesn't occur with a goal. The mutations may just not have happened.

[Anonymous No.10741862]

>>10741264
Uh, yes? The net effect is a massive reduction in the population of your predators that your own birth rate could more than buffer.

Which is the answer to:
>>10741255
This process has already happened, and we're the result of it. That's why mammals have such sophisticated metabolic capacities. Non-humans eg canines have something like 37 grams of ascorbate in their blood at any given moment, more when infected. Any poison that could be developed and reasonably contained, so as not to kill the host, has been employed. Plants did the same. Large animals developed the ability to metabolize these compounds to the point where they're actually health promoting overall.

Think about the world from the perspective of a microbe, insect, so on. It's quite poisonous. I'm sitting here eating cacao beans. Only an old world primate or similar could derive anything but death from that.

[Anonymous No.10741883]

>>10741629
>>10741608
Wouldn't that mean that plants would also adapt such toxic strategies to survive?
No because plants take advantage of their "predators" behaviours in order to reproduce and thrive, the same thing happens to animals at the bottom of the food chain so fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10741893]

>>10741255
Maybe they have and predators (including us) have evolved tp be qble to bypass the poison

[Anonymous No.10741949]

>>10741893
>evolve sophisticated poison
>go through the trouble of making it
>predator just evolves, making it inert
>all that energy, wasted
>still get eaten
Naturally 0wn3d. The sheer futility. Why even bother? It's like Sisyphus, and thensome. Always chasing safety, and freedom. But the rock just rolls down the hill when your predator evolves a way around your defense, every time.

[Anonymous No.10741964]

>>10741949
Also, this is consequentially an argument against evolution by natural selection. It may well be that animals have an "autoevolution" element, which attempts to rearrange or reactivate dormant genes. Perhaps this is even guided from off this planet, and this is all just a massive guided, iterative algorithm.

That natural selection is the only thing at play is deeply false and bordering on a religion. Which needs to die, in a fire. I know some retard is going to come and tell me how retarded I am, but fuck em. He's just a brainwashed zealot, for many reasons legitimate and not.

[Anonymous No.10741966]

>>10741255
expensive specialist strategy that would not survive arms race with parasites or specialized predators who can metabolize the toxins.

[Anonymous No.10741975]

>>10741883
Except you're a fucking retard and an herbivorous diet is objectively superior for humans.

[Anonymous No.10741978]

>>10741975
It is not many essential and semi-essential amino acids cannot be found in plant based diet and human jaw and teeth are designed for omnivorous diet. there is literally no good reason to eat only plant products

[Anonymous No.10741991]

>>10741978
This. Was indirectly vegan for a while, after a month or so it started to strange things to my brain and connective tissue. In general I became less resilient.

That's not to say a vegan diet couldn't be done well, I have a lot of restrictive criteria which made it infeasible. I only eat turkey and beans now... more or less, and feel much better. Rice is also very bad. I cut out most starches.

If you have leaky gut, bone broth and spicy food will probably be highly beneficial.

[Anonymous No.10741999]

>>10741978
There is not a single nutrient necessary or beneficial to human health or development that is only available from animal sources. Human physiology most closely resembles that of frugivorous species (animals who eat primarily or exclusively fruit).
tl;dr you are wrong on both counts

[Anonymous No.10742009]

>>10741999
yet meat feel good
meat make work good
explain

Also, there are some bitter truths you have to face about the world as it is now. The spectral content of the sun has changed, this is why plants are becoming greener. A last ditch effort to survive. Look up global dimming. A byproduct of this is massively increased oxalate and endotoxin production. Plants are rapidly becoming net poison for a lot of people. I don't know what the answer is. Society, even without our current braindead abhorrent waste, cannot continue without viable agriculture.

[Anonymous No.10742014]

>>10741991
Beans are not good for you and you really shouldn't cut out starches either. Bone broth definitely a good idea if you have GI tract problems though
>>10741999
checked, and you are a fucking brainlet please read an evolutionary biology textbook before contributing to the degradation of this board

[Anonymous No.10742023]

>>10742009
>doesn't counter anything I said
>>10742014
>doesn't counter anything I said
Name a SINGLE nutrient that is beneficial to humans that occurs only in animal products.
Or explain why herbivorous humans have longer and healthier lives than omnivorous humans.
Or explain why our physiology most closely resembles that of frugivores if we are not biologically designed (evolved) to be frugivores.

[Anonymous No.10742025]

>>10742014
Rice and potato were essentially killing me. Grains to form a base meal didn't work either. Buckwheat produced great sickness, as did quinoa. Millet is a goitrogen and on some level I don't really consider it a legitimate food unless you're literally starving.

I don't know, for some reason beans work despite lectins etc. I have to mix it with coconut oil and cumin, paprika, and chili pepper as well. Apple cider vinegar before the meal.

I wish I'd known about bone broth nearly ten years ago.

[Anonymous No.10742029]

>>10742023
Tell me about what supplements you're on.

[Anonymous No.10742034]

>>10741255
Common OP, this is second grade.

[Anonymous No.10742045]

>>10741255
Because evolution does not have a top-down perspective of "how things should work".

[Anonymous No.10742057]

>>10741255
What if circumstances force you to resort to cannibalism ?

[Anonymous No.10742059]

>>10742045
Literally zero evidence for this claim. You have no basis to suggest this place wasn't seeded with a plan, or if the logic of the universe doesn't demand a "plan". Or the "autoevolution" I mentioned above, which would employ logic a bit beyond epigenetics.

Stop claiming to know things you don't know. This is science, not a religion. You don't get to just say it's this or that way because it sounds good and feels good. And I'm serious about this. That's not science, and it needs to stop.

[Anonymous No.10742911]

why didnt animals evolved to be frens?

[Anonymous No.10742928]

>>10742059
>You have no basis to suggest [THING CONTRARY TO MY ASSUMED CONCLUSIONS]

Classic debate strat, m8. 8/8

[Anonymous No.10742941]

>>10742928
That's right kiddo, you heard me.
>He can't EVEN respond!
Heh. Looks like you've been BTFO.