FDVR

[Anonymous No.10724473]

What are currently the main obstacles to the development of full dive VR?
I know it's a huge meme but I'm looking for actual answers. What are the specific problems that need to be resolved for FDVR to become a tangible possibility in the near future?

[Anonymous No.10724481]

>>10724473
The interface I imagine.

[Anonymous No.10724485]

>>10724473
Better graphics cards.

[Anonymous No.10724494]

just get a computer chip implanted in your brain bro

[Anonymous No.10724500]

>>10724473
Graphics. Resolution. UX. Content. Google Stadia might save VR if they manage not to fuck up their streaming.

[Anonymous No.10724503]

>>10724473
Better HDMI cables.

[Anonymous No.10724514]

>>10724481
>>10724485
>>10724500
>>10724503
So the issues lie with the hardware and graphics, but the actual brain-computer interface part is not a problem?

[Anonymous No.10724518]

>>10724494
in all seriousness though, Valve (creator of HTC Vive, best VR on the market) has been exploring brain computer interfaces. A psychologists explains it may be entirely possible with our current technology but you'd still be putting a microchip into your brain.

[Anonymous No.10724523]

>>10724473
Interfacing with the brain at high enough bandwidth to simulate sensations through noninvasive means is a fucking pipe dream. We have neural interfaces that seem to be stable in monkeys for 7+ years, so stability has been solved. We still need to improve bandwidth though. There are some pretty fucking big obstacles for making neural interfaces for consumer use. Without fucking molecular nanotech(IE magic), really the only way to put a neural interface in is with very invasive brain surgery. Brain surgery needs to become massively cheaper and safer before consumer neural interfaces become practical for consumer use. Creating sensation and having seemless motor control also creates some pretty big issues. So you want to chop part of the spinal cord and put a chip in that allows signal transmission to the other part or redirects it to the computer and does sensory input, good fucking luck getting the FDA to approve that. Oops we fucked up and you're now a paraplegic cause you wanted to play Call of Duty XxXx Xtreme Gamer Fuel Version.
>>10724485
>>10724500
>>10724503
graphics are a problem, but a fucking small one. If you want VR indistinguishable from reality you need a bunch of shit. The issues involved with making haptics as good as reality are huge. Now we have to simulate basically everything we touch deforming. That ain't computationally cheap.
>>10724518
Not a fucking chance any time soon for consumer use. Because of the need to do surgery.

[Anonymous No.10724528]

You need visuals, sound, touch, smell and taste that are indistinguishable from real life. So some kind of direct brain interface would be required.

You'd need to then general in VR content that indistinguishable from real life. Fauna and flora that look and act like real creates. A entirely realistic world to move around in. NPC characters that look real and act with human personalities. No IRL human could built all that by hand so it would have to be generated by some kind of ML/AI system(s).

They doesn't even cover the full body care systems required if you wanted to remain immersed for extended periods of time.

It's a meme. Stop reading litrpg porn.

[Anonymous No.10724532]

>>10724523
>Not a fucking chance any time soon for consumer use. Because of the need to do surgery.
Obviously

There's also the possibility of putting sensors on a helmet to read brainwaves. This works well with VR because the VR system is kind of like a helmet. Here's one for sale but I don't think the tech is ready yet. Even still, future gen VR may incorporate it with very limited capabilities.

[Anonymous No.10724546]

>>10724532
>>There's also the possibility of putting sensors on a helmet to read brainwaves.
absolutely worthless garbage.
>>ready yet
it will never be.

[Anonymous No.10724547]

>>10724532
>"Right now, the sensors can measure if someone is learning something, if they’re surprised, if they’re excited or relaxed, whether they have a positive or negative growth in emotion, if they’re engaged or bored."

This is all useful info from a game developer perspective. For instance you could have a game where if it's too too easy and the VR registers a person as being bored, the game will throw waves of difficult enemies at them. Or if they're JUST learning how to play the game, it can register they're still learning and make it easier for them. Or if there's a critical game mechanic the player needs to learn, it can reinforce that learning till it registers the player has properly "learned" the necessary game mechanic.

It's not much now, but it opens up possibilities. For example, there's some studies that can actually read thoughts and images in a persons brain using these machines. They have to wear the encephalogram while being read back words or shown images and a computer read the brainwaves that corresponds to those words or images. It takes a very long time but the computer eventually learns to read your mind. Not practical cause it takes a long time, but if you're playing VR where the computer knows what sounds are in your ears and what images are being blasted to your eyeballs, and there's and encephalograms that knows your brainwave patterns, AND the player is willing and happy to wear the device for a very very long time then you got all you need to get it to read your mind. I think once we start properly mapping brains this way it may be possible to not only predict/read a persons thoughts but possibly with an experimental leap inject them ideas or thoughts which is the 1st step to a the full dive system NerveGear system.

[Anonymous No.10724607]

>>10724547
Worthless gimmick. It'll be used for 3-5 games then people will forget about it. I don't give a rat's ass about VR games, what I really want is to be able to FUCK anime waifus in VR. Can you fug your shitty brainwaves? Fuck no you can't. Inb4 put an onahole on a robot arm or hire a hooker. What if I want to fug a fox girl anon? Can't do that with a robot and I can't hire a hooker with prehensile tails. Then there's the whole n-body problem. If I want to fug one girl that's not too hard, fugging two gets difficult, three becomes borderline impossible. As you can see as the number of bodies I wanna fug increases the complexity scales exponentially. FDVR would not have this scaling problem.
>> brainwave patterns
the bandwidth is just way too fucking low.
>> a very very long time then you got all you need to get it to read your mind.
and training paraplegics to use them to do more or less anything is a long and arguably painful process
>>but possibly with an experimental leap inject them ideas or thoughts
wishful fucking thinking. And if you're doing that why don't we just use rTMS to mentally disable people into thinking that they are playing a game, when in fact they're just staring at 20 randomly blinking LEDs
>>which is the 1st step to a the full dive system NerveGear system.
nope, it's a dead end.

[Anonymous No.10724619]

>>10724514
Brain computer interface can be resolved by creating a strong enough signal that it overrides the brain via wireless. There is a way to write a mass of frequencies like that, but it is a secret. I will give it to you once I have built it. ^-^

[Anonymous No.10724726]

>>10724619
Beyond the hurdle of wireless communication to the brain, for FDVR you need better non-invasive brain reading technology than the current EEG technology available.
The main thing in the way of FDVR is sensor resolution.

[Anonymous No.10724730]

>>10724473
>full dive VR
motion sickness
little tactile feedback
can't fake acceleration

[Anonymous No.10724736]

>>10724730
Why can't you fake acceleration?

[Anonymous No.10724757]

>>10724726
You are already on to me.
Heh. Clever bastard.

[Anonymous No.10724760]

>>10724730
>can't fake acceleration
Anyone who has had a dream where they are falling will tell you something VERY different.

[Anonymous No.10724782]

>>10724730
>>full dive VR
those are problems of REAL VR, why would anyone assume those problems exist for something that doesn't exist?

[Anonymous No.10726071]

>>10724730
>>10724546
>>10724528
>>10724523
But have you all accounted for the exponential growth of technology? The singularity is near, I hope you know.

[Anonymous No.10726072]

>>10724730
this

[Anonymous No.10726074]

>>10726071
>The singularity is near, I hope you know.

So what, you're saying if a computer became exponentially smarter than a human, and (through online full dive gaming) gained access thousands of people wearing a device specifically designed to implant thoughts into a persons head (full dive VR), then it could hijack those brains and add them to it's own processing power? Kind of like the matrix?

[Anonymous No.10726077]

>>10726071
What even is the singularity?

[Anonymous No.10726086]

a compiler that translate machine code into brain code

[Anonymous No.10726092]

>>10724500

>streaming VR games from a server

Are you retarded? Introducing latency is the single worst thing you can do for VR. High refresh-rate, low-latency rendering and displays are one of the highest priorities of VR, and you're talking about streaming games over an internet connection? The fuck outta here.

[Anonymous No.10726148]

>>10724523
>Brain surgery needs to become massively cheaper and safer
How can this be achieved?
I don't know shit about this subject, but couldn't neuroprosthetics be inserted with minimally invasive procedures?

[Anonymous No.10726827]

>>10726148
The problem is finding something the body isn't going to reject.

[Anonymous No.10726830]

>>10726827
Aren't bioinert materials used for that?

[Anonymous No.10726833]

>>10724473
What if the Hololens turns gay sex into straight sex?

[Anonymous No.10726835]

>>10724730
If you can fake electrical signals going into the brain you can fake acceleration. Vestibular signals can be faked with external electrodes:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_vestibular_stimulation

[Anonymous No.10726888]

>>10726148
>>minimally invasive procedures
that's still surgery. Even minimally invasive surgery is expensive. The fact that minimally invasive brain surgery can't be done by a dude who never finished high school in a mall is what makes it expensive. If you want fucking FDVR you might need to do some very very very invasive surgery, like chopping up the spinal cord and putting a chip in between. If we can make automated robot surgeons this may help.
>>10726827
solved. We have monkeys that are going on 7+ years with neural interfaces in their heads. The bandwidth of the interfaces they have needs to improve though. The surgery they have to do to implant them is rather intense. The neural sewing machine will fix that. But it still requires surgery.
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/578542v1

[Anonymous No.10726894]

>>10726888
Just because it has to be done by a surgeon doesn't mean it needs to be incredibly expensive, some surgeries (although they're fairly benign and low risk, like rhinoplasty) are relatively inexpensive.

[Anonymous No.10726940]

>>10724473
Actually interesting and marketable applications for it.

[Anonymous No.10726970]

Neural interface.
We'll eventually get the resolution but we still need a proper mechanism for interfaces that don't need surgery. We currently only able to scan from the surface so we can't really get the nitty-gritty yet, nevermind simulating signals externally with finesse.

Sensory interoperation.
In the first place, we don't have the means to summon up images, sounds, etc from neural interfaces.
How are you going to perceive through interfaces? What about innate senses? Are we going to add on top then suppress the original? Or override the innate senses entirely?
Are we going through ethical and legal hell just for FDVR?
I'm sure seedy gov entities would love/hate this shit.

Mass market.
What part of the neural connections are made from nature or nurture? If a significant amount of connections are formed as a person grows, then there is a good chance that each person is different enough that pick-up and play is impossible without conditioning. How is conditioning done?

Frankly, until some researcher does something Cool And Totally Groundbreaking™, I doubt we'll approach the FDVR dream anytime soon.

[Anonymous No.10727000]

>>10726970
>>we still need a proper mechanism for interfaces that don't need surgery.
impossible without basically magical molecular nanotechnology. As in you snort a line of microscopic robots, they go up into your brain, plug into neurons, and form a little network that communicates signals in and out using ultrasound. This does have limits though. You can only put so many microscopic robots in your brain before the heat produced by them starts becoming a problem.
>>we don't have the means to summon up images, sounds, etc from neural interfaces.
this can be fixed with software. We can't right now because the neural interfaces we have don't have enough bandwidth. Can't fix a software problem when we don't have the hardware.
>>How are you going to perceive through interfaces?
well it takes a mouse less than 60 minutes to learn how to use a new infrared sense.

[Anonymous No.10727083]

>>10727000
I made the post under the assumption that current technology improves at some point. The issue is in the areas where we reached an impasse.
>>magical molecular nanotechnology
I wouldn't bet on nanotechnology. afaik, the brain is a black box so minute control is difficult if not impossible.
>>this can be fixed with software.
The issue I'm trying to communicate is trying to send arbitrary signals to the brain. For vision, would it be wise to directly interact with the ocular nerves? Is it possible to do so without damaging it? My main concern is creating a practical entry point and also extracting learned behavior to model perception.
>>well it takes a mouse less than 60 minutes to learn how to use a new infrared sense.
Neat! It looks like it uses a simple IR detector rather than image sensor. Still cool.

[Anonymous No.10727267]

>>10727083
>>the brain is a black box
with tiny fucking robots that can swim around your brain and read/write electric signals it ain't a black box anymore
>>minute
you snort quite a bit of tiny robots, the control would not be minute.
>>send arbitrary signals to the brain
we don't how the signals work in the brain because we don't have a good way to measure them. Invasive neural interfaces help fix this problem and are helping us understand what's going on with brain signals.

[Anonymous No.10727819]

>>10726077
An excuse for things getting better with no effort.

[Anonymous No.10728460]

>>10726074
actually, the matrix uses human's body heat as energy. also, why would they need to use human brains when they would be better? mechanical computers are much more scalable, anyways.

[Anonymous No.10728526]

>>10728460
>matrix uses human's body heat as energy
don't you remember how the last movie ends? Neo gains "the power" to bend reality in the Matrix AND the real world. Hence the real world is also the Matrix and even the machines don't know they're in a machine. Hence all those humans producing body heat, aren't really humans producing body heat, they're just in the matrix convincing the other robots they're there to produce heat.

Humans producing energy from body heat is just a trick to convince the machines they're not in their own version of the Matrix.

[Anonymous No.10728528]

>>10724473
>What are currently the main obstacles to the development of

>full dive VR?

You talking glasses that let you see computer generated worlds without you puking?

Or a holodeck for your brain?

[Anonymous No.10728532]

>>10728460
>actually, the matrix uses human's body heat as energy.

that was a rewrite of the script... originally, they were using peoples brains as bio-computers. because that made sense thermodynamically.

they changed it before filming because "they didn't think the audience would understand it"

[Anonymous No.10728627]

Interface!

[Anonymous No.10728658]

Let's explore, many thing the interface would have to be invasive as in linked to the brain internally, meaning brain surgery! I think there is an intermediary step, less invasive and equally productive!

We know we can stimulate perception two ways via internal process aka brain poking, lol, and external the rest of the neurological system aka skin and inbetween!

So mapping the brain is intricate and takes time, it has stages and stages, however mapping the rest of 5he nervous system and mapping areas in the brain that decode basic sensations is 5he way to go!

We can start small like develop an pod environment that can externally stimulate our body and basic sensations paired with the virtual reality observed to produce a realistic enough experience. This will give us a platform to improve the system overtime and continue working on developing the internal approach.

Sit in the pod, hear, see, touch, feel and the pod can be made such to allow the moment of the body fully and the notion of space to be infinite! This can be done easily now a days, frankly I think it is! It will get better as hardware and software are refined, once we understand our toone we will master it! By toon I am referring to frequencies we produce as a system and cknpatmentalized components, we just play the toon and bam!

[Anonymous No.10728893]

>>10728658
Your enthusiasm is refreshing.