Is academia ruined by capitalism?

[Anonymous No.10694958]

I'd argue in some ways academia is ruined by capitalism because scientists have to compete for grants so they can live pay check to pay check. And people who hand out the grants are rich retards who simply hand them out to the ones with the best social skills instead of the ones that actually might solve problems.
I've met scientists at universities and they are fascinated with boring details instead of practical uses and that pisses me off. These scientists probably don't deserve grants but rich people just find them anyway because rich people can't into science.

Scientists that work outside universities are less obsessed with boring details and more with practical uses. This goes for both the private and public sector. However the public sector actually gets stuff done while the private sector wastes billions on simply making isomers of their existing drugs so then can maintain monopoly due to patents and IP laws which are total bullshit.
Capitalism=Anti-science

[Anonymous No.10694963]

>>10694958
Wait, are you complaining about scientists working at universities being not profit driven enough?

[Anonymous No.10694969]

>>10694963
Being profit driven is not the same as being driven by the desire to churn out useful research.
Chads that only like bullshit details are the issue and they're taking all the funding.

[Anonymous No.10694978]

OP, how do you feel about pure mathematicians?

[Anonymous No.10695003]

>>10694978
Scum of the earth.

[Anonymous No.10695155]

>>10694958
>>Another tranny leftist with an anime pic

[Anonymous No.10695179]

>>10694958
Yeah, everyone knows this but I say “let rich retards spend their retard money in whatever retard thing they want”. The same goes for taxpayers who fund this, if you are too stupid to avoid taxes then let your retard dollars flow freely into retard pockets.

Anyways, in industry we see academia as a bunch of retards dancing around each other. If they were actually talented they’d be with us making 300k a year but instead they have to suck dick for 70k. When any of them publishes anything of value (almost never) we just take it and make the money.

[Anonymous No.10695193]

>>10694958
Science isn't ultimately for practicality but it's ultimately for a pursuit of truth

[Anonymous No.10695199]

>>10694958
The same, or similar, perverse incentives were present in the USSR, Red China and so on. Whatever the cause is, no, it isn't "capitalism" so much as the general rat-race-ism and cargo-cultism that afflict brainlet profs and sad-sack postdocs and drive them to publish retarded boring shit all the time.

[Anonymous No.10695251]

>>10695199
Elaborate your post.
What I meant by capitalism was that supporters of capitalism believe that the wealthy know how to handle their money. That wealth means intelligence. But that's not always true. A rich business owner doesn't know jack shit about what a post doc is researching unless he's a scientist himself and that's not possible because scientists are poor. But he might give him grants just because it sounds cool or something even if the post doc just want to do >>10695193 do science for the sake of science instead of trying to genuinely solve problems as quickly as possible.
Resources need to be distributed in a way so that the proper scientists get the funding.

>>10694969
>Let the free market decide
Technological advances stay slow then because rich people don't know what to fund but they're given all the responsibility.

[Anonymous No.10695255]

>>10695199
Elaborate your post.
What I meant by capitalism was that supporters of capitalism believe that the wealthy know how to handle their money. That wealth means intelligence. But that's not always true. A rich business owner doesn't know jack shit about what a post doc is researching unless he's a scientist himself and that's not possible because scientists are poor. But he might give him grants just because it sounds cool or something even if the post doc just want to do >>10695193 do science for the sake of science instead of trying to genuinely solve problems as quickly as possible.
Resources need to be distributed in a way so that the proper scientists get the funding.

>>10695179
>Let the free market decide
Technological advances stay slow then because rich people don't know what to fund but they're given all the responsibility.

[Anonymous No.10695266]

>>10695255
>Resources need to be distributed in a way so that the proper scientists get the funding
Bad scientists often got funded in the Soviet Union for the same reasons, although I know you don't care and will keep calling it capitalism anyway.

[Anonymous No.10695272]

>>10695255
>Technological advances stay slow then because rich people don't know what to fund but they're given all the responsibility.
If you honestly think this (I don’t) then just become rich yourself and fund what you want.

Protip: Become rich by scamming rich retards like Elizabeth Holmes did. God bless her.

[Anonymous No.10695309]

>>10694958
>I've met scientists at universities and they are fascinated with boring details instead of practical uses and that pisses me off.
"Capitalism has failed because people don't give money to the things I like".

[Anonymous No.10695314]

>>10695309
>Writes 300 page PhD thesis over 5 years about a protein nobody cares about

[Anonymous No.10695316]

>>10695266
That's bad. Then things shouldn't be done the way USSR did them.

[Anonymous No.10695317]

>>10695272
Obviously. But the system needs to change.

[Anonymous No.10695324]

>>10695317
Become rich and change the system then. Everyone knows laws and systems are crafted for the rich anyways. If you want change, fund it.

[Anonymous No.10695327]

>>10694958
fuck off dumb commie, scientific output of capitalist countries dwarfed any other economic systems

[Anonymous No.10695335]

>>10695327
Excuse me look at COMMUNIST CHINA right now.
yes I know they're capitalist but the government controls everything and alot of the funding so it's kind of communist compared to America and shit

[Anonymous No.10695339]

>>10695316
Your complaint has absolutely nothing to do with "capitalism". Say it.

[Anonymous No.10695345]

>>10695339
But it does. Capitalism means that most scientists rely on charity to produce research. Charity is a key factor of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.10695346]

>>10695314
>>Writes 300 page PhD thesis over 5 years about a protein nobody cares about
20 years later that protein might be found to be crucial for something. You don't know, and that's why fundamental research is important.

[Anonymous No.10695361]

>>10695346
Yeah sure but research that can be applied is better

[Anonymous No.10695369]

>>10695361
>Yeah sure but research that can be applied is better
Fundamental research opens new paths of applied research. For example, Faraday's research on electromagnetism. It was fundamental research, and look what it has given us.

[Anonymous No.10695373]

>>10695345
>paying people is charity
You're not making any sense. Were the USSR's very similar funding models "capitalist", and in either case have you thought through ANY of the ramifications?

[Anonymous No.10695417]

>>10695155
>30% of suicides are LGBT related
can i get a source i need to own some libs

[Anonymous No.10695425]

>>10695179

Maybe some people actually care about science and mathematics and not sucking Jew dick for profit, engie cuck.

[Anonymous No.10695428]

>>10694958
no, you're an idiot, please fuck off

[Anonymous No.10695434]

>>10694958
Yes and sjw

[Anonymous No.10695439]

>>10694958

You seem to have shit ass backwards, OP. I agree that capitalism has ruined academia, but this is because capitalism overemphasized direct, profitable applications over fundamental research that won't make money for decades at least. People didn't invent group theory and quantum mechanics because it would give some kike a fun toy to market (although they eventually were used for that). The current system places too much emphasis on applications and nominally increasing profit margins and not enough on actual science.

[Anonymous No.10695468]

>>10694958
>fascinated with boring details instead of practical uses
It's a good way to keep the job.

The rest of your post is just rambling with (pretty randomized) use of buzzwords.

[Anonymous No.10695503]

>>10695439
>>10695369
Damn this is something I hadn't thought about hmmm.

[Anonymous No.10695508]

>>10695373
USSR was plagued by corruption so the party members ended up acting like capitalists. They didn't do that badly though. Remember they sent the first man into space and made the first satellite. Now china is making 5G because they prioritize new applied tech instead of letting the free market in America decide.

[Anonymous No.10695514]

>>10694958
I'd argue in some ways academia is ruined by feudalism because scientists have to compete for patronage so they can live pay check to pay check. And people who hand out patronage are noble-born retards who simply hand them out to the ones with the best social skills instead of the ones that actually might solve problems.
I've met scientists at universities and they are fascinated with boring details instead of practical uses and that pisses me off. These scientists probably don't deserve deserve but nobles just find them anyway because nobles can't into science.

Scientists that work outside universities are less obsessed with boring details and more with practical uses. This goes for both the private and public sector. However the public sector actually gets stuff done while the private sector wastes billions on simply making isomers of their existing drugs so then can maintain monopoly due to patents and IP laws which are total bullshit.
Feudalism=Anti-science

[Trivago No.10695522]

>>10694958
I do not think it has anything to do with whatever bullshit you are talking about, but commercializing education was the wrong move. Since that happened the only people who can become doctors, lawyers, or scientists are those who can afford it or are willing to gamble with their futures. Who is confident in their ability to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars, plus the money they needed for their undergrad.

[Anonymous No.10695525]

>>10694958
No

[Anonymous No.10695533]

>>10694958
/sci/ is a free market board. go back.

[Anonymous No.10695535]

Academia was ruined by academia. Scientists are inherently spineless whores who take on the characteristics of anyone who funds them. Back in feudal days when the church dominated, we saw many scientists also take on the role of holy men, now it's liberal capitalists. Science takes on the shape of the dominant mode of production.

[Anonymous No.10695565]

>>10694958
>I've met scientists at universities and they are fascinated with boring details instead of practical uses and that pisses me off.
People thinking of science in terms of quantifiable short-term uses (i.e. turning results directly into money) instead of a pursuit for truth ruined academia. People like you, you little piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.10695601]

>>10695535
That's why funding should be revolutionised

>>10695565
Advancements are not always profitable. But obscure science is bad. Applied science is not always profitable.

[Anonymous No.10695633]

>>10694969
This is bullshit because who decides what's useful and what isn't?

Not everyone can be working on the cure for world hunger.

[Anonymous No.10695818]

>>10695633
We don't need people researching obesity. It's not a serious issue.

[Anonymous No.10696049]

>>10694958
Academia was ruined by faggots and transgender freaks

[Anonymous No.10696053]

>money extracted from the public is apportioned by merit through a central planning system
academia is socialist

[Anonymous No.10696059]

>>10695818
ironically a cure for obesity would make a whole lot more money than a cure for world hunger

[Anonymous No.10696072]

academia is ruined by foreigners who pride themselves on sniffing their own farts and trumping-up the products of their incremental busywork so they can eventually work permanently in the USA and help tptb undermine the american middle class.

[Anonymous No.10696098]

>>10696072

but am i being too harsh? do i have a warped perspective? i often ask myself this question, but nobody will ever give you an honest answer so it's hard to know how crazy you are.

[Anonymous No.10696153]

>>10695314

[Anonymous No.10696178]

>>10696059
Yes but it's not a real problem.
People should eat less but they don't.

[Anonymous No.10696182]

>>10696053
Most professors have to wish for grants and grants are charity. That makes it capitalist

[Anonymous No.10696187]

>>10696182
i dont think you really understand what capitalism is

[Anonymous No.10696195]

>>10694958
Researching ways to slaughter communists worked wonders for science in the late 20th century

[Anonymous No.10696201]

>>10696187
Capitalism is consolidated wealth in the hands of a few people who then decide what to do with it. Unfortunately people treat those more or less ordinary men like god's and they don't use their wealth responsibily

[Anonymous No.10696261]

>>10696201
which is the opposite of what happens with academic funding

[Anonymous No.10696292]

>>10696261
Based brainlet. This is what happens when humanities and social science is defunded.

[Anonymous No.10696391]

>>10694958
I often think capitalism and socialism are equally bad at academia. Academia is smelling your own farts.

This thread is shit.

[Anonymous No.10696398]

>>10695417
Yandex it (because Google might delete it from their engines lately) or Bing it.

[Anonymous No.10696402]

>>10695309
It's actually more:
>I didn't even try to get money for this idea I think is big because of my autism

[Anonymous No.10696410]

>>10696201
>Capitalism is consolidated wealth in the hands of a few people
Not even people, organisations and non human entities.
You have no idea how bad things really are. We're microbes in larger organisms.

[Anonymous No.10696645]

>>10695439
>capitalism overemphasized direct, profitable applications over fundamental research that won't make money for decades at least
Jesus fuck, this.
I'm stuck learning mathematics with a room full of engineers, being taught by postgrads without PhDs with undergrads for tutors.
It's so fucking annoying because good research into the nature of things ends up churning out things that are worth more in the long run. If I could have a stipend, I'd happily churn out results all day and let the industry people make the money. I don't care about the money. I just want to learn and share information.

[Anonymous No.10696682]

>>10694958
>capitalism
>grants

Why would capitalism be about relying on bureaucratic "grants" and non-profitable science like you described? I think you are very retarded.

[Anonymous No.10696688]

>>10695439
Why you think "actual" science isn't profitable is beyond me

[Anonymous No.10696694]

>>10696688
because the vast majority if it isn't

[Anonymous No.10696700]

>>10696645
>Lul fuck money I'll do highly technical work for McDonald wages
And people wonder why stem is saturated and wages are suppressed
>>10696682
See dolphin poster

[Anonymous No.10696727]

>>10696694
Give me an example then

[Anonymous No.10696743]

>>10696727
just look at any science journal. nearly every paper in it is an incremental increase in knowledge about some protein or species or physical phenomena nobody but the authors knew or cared about. unless you're VERY lucky, like once in a lifetime lucky, your research will go unnoticed for years or permanently. even the CRISPR system, which turned out to be a wild success, languished unnoticed for years before someone noticed it could be targeted.

can you think of a way to monetize ecological studies of a couple different nearly-identical species of toads? or a way to make money off of figuring out why sexual development resulted in different size gametes? can you explain how to be a commercial success because you figured out an additional role for a known protein in meiotic recombination?

[Anonymous No.10696774]

>>10696743
>early every paper in it is an incremental increase in knowledge
That is because big steps are harder to come by, if that is what you are missing

>can you think of a way to monetize ecological studies of a couple different nearly-identical species of toads

You were talking about big general steps like QM and I assume Relativity, not toad stamp collection. Did you get confused with your own point?

> or a way to make money off of figuring out why sexual development resulted in different size gametes?
That is pretty obvious: not both gametes need to have the initial fuel and protein for the zygote process

[Anonymous No.10696860]

Academia is partially ruined by market driven research. For example if I go to google scholar and I want to know about causes of being denied a mortgage I get 90/100 papers that are about racial difference and if race is a factor in the process. No in depth look at anything else that would be interesting to consider.

The ones handing out the grants are governmental organizations but they get bought up anyway, representative democracy is a facade for the oligarchy (very obvious, nobody wants true democracy anyway).

Boring details are the norm in science, with how big the industry has become often researchers are required to study rather boring details. So their thesis for graduating their phd is boring and not very exciting and everything else they do as well. Actually challenging the status quo is deemed risky in science and it will not be recommended by someone guiding your phd or if you hold a phd. So what you get is one study that analyzes some factors, find some conclusions. Then another that analyzes, find slightly different conclusions. And this goes on for sometimes 300+ papers on the subject, while it could've stopped at just 3 instead. The others are just bloat that are referencing each other and barely add something new or interesting.

I don't really think that capitalism ruins science overall though, it is more that very little actually care about doing actual science. Take a look at Plato, which you should absolutely read and how education was given form.

>>10695514
The new feudal lords are a bunch of banks and a few companies.

[Anonymous No.10696911]

>>10694958
>patents and IP laws
are regulations, not part of the capitalist system.

[Anonymous No.10697078]

>>10694958
Everything is ruined by the globalist bankers. There is no other cause of our perpetual mediocrity. Academia, and the public research apparatus, is just part of that debt-based machine.

\The profit motive has inarguably ruined biology and medicine. The Rockefeller medical-chemical complex which rose in the early 1900's was the primary cause.

>>10695155
There used to be some good anime.

[Anonymous No.10697093]

Dunno why people insist the US of A isn't gommunist, they've been ruled by trotskyites for the last 60 years?

[Anonymous No.10697478]

In all honestly, would it be worth it for someone to get a PhD in physics nowadays or stay in the work force and make a chill 50k a year. All of the grad students told me never to do a PhD because it really wasnt worth it in the end, but I'm unsure if they tell the truth.

[Anonymous No.10697488]

>>10696743
>even the CRISPR system, which turned out to be a wild success, languished unnoticed for years before someone noticed it could be targeted
And the original directionless fill-in-the-blanks "research" had nothing to do with it. This is like saying the natives were important explorers because they were in America before Columbus; the fact is Columbus would have arrived anyway, and in fact the natives' presence by and large impeded quick and thorough exploration of the continent.

[Anonymous No.10697498]

>>10695345
>>10695508
>>10695535
>>10696182
>>10696201
>the USSR is capitalist
>concentration of wealth is capitalist
>materialism is capitalist
>a focus on the here-and-now is capitalist
Quit beating around the bush, OP. This is classic anti-semitic dogwhistling. The same language and sentiments permeate half the posts on/pol/.

[Anonymous No.10697499]

>>10694958
Please, PLEASE don't be one of those retards who believes that "anything relating to money" = "Capitalism". Oh wait, you are. Fuck off you ignorant shit.

[Anonymous No.10697519]

>>10695508
5G is bad.

[Anonymous No.10697568]

>>10695324
pah, wasting my life for the chance of a few adrenalin kicks after buying useless junk instead of trying to understand existence itself.
In the end we all die and i rather spend my time doing what i love

[Anonymous No.10697589]

>>10697568
>trying to understand existence itself
L0Lno philosophag

[Anonymous No.10697598]

>>10697568
understanding existence is capitalist.

[Anonymous No.10697602]

>>10694958
>by capitalism
>not by sjw pc cucks

[Anonymous No.10697604]

>>10697498
Dumb bait

[Anonymous No.10697612]

>>10697598
This. "Understanding" itself is a fundamentally capitalist Western concept that erases (and in turn is deconstructed by) non-Western ontologies and epistemologies, and collectivist communitarian and feminine/LGBT etiologies. If you have trouble understanding this, well, congratulations on being born white and male -- by the way, your kind are going extinct soon, so enjoy it while "it" lasts lol.