/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10693440]

>Industry will solve climate change for us guise!
>We won't have to give up any of our luxuries at all!

[Anonymous No.10693445]

>>10693440
agreed

[Anonymous No.10693449]

>>10693440
Anyone else stoked to see modern society collapse?

[Anonymous No.10693452]

>>10693449
I'm moving to a red state so I won't have to feel bad about killing and eating my obese neighbors.

[Anonymous No.10693453]

>>10693449
I am worried about the long term employment opportunities for my PhD in a post-apocalyptic Mad Max universe

[Anonymous No.10693489]

>>10693449

Sure - it's just unfortunate I can't be a passive observer and instead have to suffer along side with it.

[Anonymous No.10693491]

Just get a job in the trades and move to Alaska. When conscription comes back you'll get a cushy job instead of a shitty one.

[Anonymous No.10693509]

>>10693440
The fossil fuel shills and their army of denialtards have won. 5C+ warming is locked in and they will all die of old age before the hellscape arrives. It's too bad it's not legal to hang fossil fuel board members in the streets.

[Anonymous No.10693514]

>>10693440
Industry is already solving climate change. Feels good being right. Literally eating a steak right now as you cucks worry even though you are literally doing nothing.

[Anonymous No.10693518]

>>10693514
kill yourself retard, industry is still busy raping the environment to death and you're still busy sucking the bloody fluids off their cocks

[Anonymous No.10693530]

>>10693518
I know you are too ignorant to know this, but if you look at all VC funds that currently own billion-dollar stakes in renewable energy startups and research their board, you will see many big fossil fuels last names. All it takes is a few calls and not being retarded. Here's the shocker for you:

One can simultaneously own the oil AND the company that will replace it. It's called capitalism, you retard. Go black to retweeting and sharing posts on facebook, real big help!

[Anonymous No.10693554]

>>10693530
>One can simultaneously own the oil AND the company that will replace it. It's called capitalism, you retard.
Worthless parasites that revel in their delusions that capitalism will unrape the environment will have to be remedially punished or exterminated for survival. They can't even solve one aspect of environmental devastation, climate warming, fast enough for it to matter. The situation is hopeless for humanity without a total re-invention of society, or mass death. It will be the latter.

[Anonymous No.10693564]

>>10693554
Okay, while you are jerking off to your own fantasies here is an old article that literally everyone knows about except for you:

https://www.industryweek.com/growth-strategies/koch-brothers-build-biofuel-giant-aided-mandates-they-abhor

>Koch is the fifth-largest U.S. ethanol producer and in August opened a $100 million plant that makes biodiesel
>Koch has become “a big player” in renewable fuels
> The company now has a total of six plants in the corn-growing states of Iowa and Nebraska, as well as one in Georgia, and enough capacity to produce 820 million gallons of ethanol annually.

How does it feel knowing that the Koch brothers have done more to save the world than you? Here is a hint: it should feel normal! This is what you would expect. Anyone in energy knows where the industry is headed, the Kochs more than anyone. They are not stupid, they are rich.

[Anonymous No.10693571]

>>10693564
Biofuel is complete shit. After all the energy you put into growing it you only get one watt per square meter of cropland. Even solar gets fives times that on average.

[Anonymous No.10693576]

>>10693564
>100 million
they literally gave more to wille soon to publish BS science than that

[Anonymous No.10693581]

>>10693571
Damn that's great, so you know better than the Koch brothers? Then beat them and become the next big billionaire of the world! That's so great, I'm proud of you.

>>10693576
That's what completing the construction costed, why would they spend more than that? It's called being smart. The point is they have a company that handles these investments, you can just call them or visit their website if you want to see what else they've done.

[Anonymous No.10693584]

>>10693514
>>10693530
>>10693564
You are deluded. It doesn't matter how big renewables get if fossil fuels are six times larger at every step. We have to outright cut the parts of the economy that exclusively use fossil fuels. If you can't have something without using oil, coal or gas, tough.

[Anonymous No.10693591]

>>10693581
The Kochs haven't invested in biofuel because it's carbon efficient or a good energy source. They've invested in it because it's an easy way to obtain money from morons who can't do cost benefit calculations on different energy sources.
It's a buzzword to politicians the same way that Tesla is a buzzword to wealthy Californians.

[Anonymous No.10693595]

>>10693581
the fact they've spent significantly more money protecting their oil interests at the worlds expense isn't significant to you?

[Anonymous No.10693600]

>>10693564
It doesn't matter what the Kichs are doing to diversify their portfolios and pretend to address environmental issues. Corn ethanol is one of the worst alternative fuels for transportation. Monocropped agriculture is terrible for a number of reasons and soil is eroding away much faster than it is replenished because of that. Warming of 5C+ is nearly assured, because the hard changes actually required are not being made, only token gestures like replacing gasoline with corn ethanol.

>fantasies
The fantasy is thinking that capitalism is working to address an existential threat that requires neglecting short-term profit.

[Anonymous No.10693608]

>>10693591
>>10693595
>>10693600

Who cares why they are doing it? The result is the same.

[Anonymous No.10693621]

>>10693608
yes, completely ineffective and insufficient

[Anonymous No.10693630]

>>10693621
The perception is that eventually renewable will replace everything, but there is a lot of R&D needed before this happens. Calculated small steps like what the Kochs are doing are the perfect strategy, at least until some big breakthrough comes from some startup and things can really get going.

[Anonymous No.10693639]

>>10693630
Wrong. Currently we could power all of the US with solar for half as much as a single year of oil subsidies.

Why don't we just cut oil subsidies? Capitalism and lobbying.

[Anonymous No.10693641]

>>10693449
No, because it's going to be a slow and boring process.

[Anonymous No.10693650]

>>10693639
>Currently we could power all of the US with solar for half as much as a single year of oil subsidies.

You are clearly lying here. If you could then just flood the energy markets and kill everyone else. Given that you are not doing this, you are lying.

[Anonymous No.10693672]

>>10693584
m8, the entire issue with renewables is "it costs too much money" the solution is easy "taxes on oil and oil products"

[Anonymous No.10693696]

>>10693650
>You are clearly lying here.
You clearly can't do math so why are you on a math and science board?

>If you could then just flood the energy markets and kill everyone else.
Nope. Lobbying prevents any such thing. The power companies claim that because they own the power lines they get to decide what goes through them. That means you cannot hook up any commercial solar installation to the grid and private installations are limited and disincentivised by net metering laws.

[Anonymous No.10693732]

>>10693564
yikes and cringe

[Anonymous No.10693740]

>>10693452
If it's a red state, when society collapses, you probably won't have to, given how much farm land they have.

[Anonymous No.10693753]

>>10693696
>hat means you cannot hook up any commercial solar installation to the grid and private installations are limited and disincentivised by net metering laws.

Oh, so this is what you meant. This is clearly not "power all of the US with solar". You are talking about hooking up your gangsta solar plates. Sounds like cancer to me, start a solar energy startup and do something useful with your life instead of being an idiot online.

[Anonymous No.10693845]

>>10693753
>Imagine being this retarded
The US spends 4.6 billions dollars just on oil subsidies every year and consumes 3,911,000,000,000 kwH of electricity each year. Solar costs $3.05 per kw of capacity on average after installation and obviously larger installations are cheaper. Even assuming an average of only 4 hours of solar insolation it would take 8.17 billion dollars to replace US energy with just solar which is 1.75 times a year of oil subsidies and 2 billion dollars cheaper than a single year of subsidies for all fossil fuels.

Why are you on a math board if you can't do highschool math?

[Anonymous No.10693850]

>>10693581
>so you know better than the Koch brothers?
you could, like, calculate it, you FUCKING RETARD.

[Anonymous No.10693856]

>>10693845
This all seems very pretty so here's the stress test: If this was true then that means you are sitting on a billion dollar industry. If this was true, why are you not flying right now to Silicon Valley to have funding round and make this into a reality? No one will hesitate at throwing you money for political lobbying if necessary when the stakes are this high. Again, this is great! Good luck, you are going to be rich!

>>10693850
Why would I waste my time doing on-paper calculations when the only thing that matters is the real world: Can you or can you not turn this into a profitable business? If you could, you could be making billions right now. If you don't, it means you are misunderstanding something.

[Anonymous No.10693865]

>>10693856
Laws you dumb motherfucker. Nobody can hook up anything to the grid without the permission of the power companies.

>Why would I waste my time doing on-paper calculations
Confirmed retard

[Anonymous No.10693869]

>>10693865
Go up to the power companies and tell them "Look you could save x% of your expenses by just doing this. My startup does exactly this and I'll let you buy a majority stake for y$. Sign this contract and you'll give me the right to use your lines under your name in this state as a test-case and if it works you can fund me to expand".

It would be that easy. I am literally telling you how to become a billionaire, just book your flight already.

[Anonymous No.10693873]

>>10693865
>Confirmed retard
Confirmed for never having actually done any real science or started a business for that matter. What you can calculate on paper is usually way off what you can actually achieve in the real world. But I am giving you the chance to prove me wrong and become a billionaire. I am too comfy in my position and I don't see myself as an entrepreneur, so you go do it. If you are right, you could sell this shit directly to the energy companies, no need to get the government involved.

[Anonymous No.10693874]

>>10693869
>Imagine being this retarded
Tesla tried and the power companies said "fuck off". Where am I going to get more working capital than Elon Musk so that I can bully the power companies into selling my energy?

[Anonymous No.10693876]

>>10693873
You clearly have no place on a math and science board. Why are you here?

[Anonymous No.10693878]

>>10693874
>Tesla tried and the power companies said "fuck off"
Post proof and I guarantee you are misunderstanding some aspect of it. As evidence, if it was too hard to do it in the US then just go to the EU and do it there. It's that easy.

>>10693876
I have a Ph.D. in Mathematical Analysis and I work as a quant in Wall Street. I know more about everything than you'll ever know about anything. I am trying to teach you a lesson in how the real world actually works.

[Anonymous No.10693880]

Capitalism is a religion at this point. Some people won't stop believing until it kills them.

[Anonymous No.10693882]

>>10693878
>I have a Ph.D.
>Can't do highschool math
Good larp, now back to /pol/

[Anonymous No.10693885]

>>10693440
>hey guise, don't you think that thing that's the driving force of our economy is really just a luxury?
>surely we can just give it up entirely and increase gibs 10 fold at the same time and that won't cause any problems

[Anonymous No.10693886]

>>10693882
I didn't do pointless math. The fact of the matter is that if those calculations had any meaning in the real world, you'd be a billionaire right now. But you aren't, therefore you are missing something and you are too stupid to realize it.

[Anonymous No.10693887]

>>10693869
>you could save x% of your expenses
we are talking about energy efficiency per area here, not about efficiency in the business sense. but even then, I bet having a shitload of efficient solar panels/towers/water heaters/... would be FAR more efficient than wasting farms on corn monoculture to produce biofuel. but hey, they would lose their opportunity of taking advantage of govt subsidies...

[Anonymous No.10693888]

>>10693878
The power companies own the power lines in the EU too, you dumb motherfucker.

[Anonymous No.10693889]

>>10693886
>The fact of the matter is that if those calculations had any meaning in the real world, you'd be a billionaire right now.
Wew, lad. Clearly you've never worked in Wall Street.

[Anonymous No.10693890]

off: butt-rumpled commies

[Anonymous No.10693892]

>>10693887
Any kind of improvement will mean billions on the other side of their books at the end of the year. Whatever the details are, big execs are waiting for you to come to their office to suck your dick. Why you aren't going is a mystery to me at this point.

>>10693888
But everyone knows EU politicians are far more retarded and authoritarian. You can bully them more effectively than in the US and you'll get your power lines. Remember the EU is the one always suing the big corporations for the big bucks.

[Anonymous No.10693893]

>>10693880
>waaah why won't people stop believing they have the right to own stuff and not be slaves to my communist bureaucracy?

[Anonymous No.10693900]

>>10693892
So let me get this straight. You, who claims to be a mathematician working in Wall Street, think that it's a viable business plan to aquire working capital on loans in order to spend it on lobbying so that I can then begin to make money in a competitive market where my competitors have no debt?

You're 12

[Anonymous No.10693902]

>>10693893
there are self-described socialist countries that rank higher in economic freedom than the United States. the american obsession with Reagan-style laissez-faire capitalism is literally the biggest case of stockholm syndrome in history

[Anonymous No.10693904]

>>10693902
No there aren't.

[Anonymous No.10693905]

>>10693892
>Any kind of improvement will mean billions on the other side of their books at the end of the year
yeah, and that's exactly why the chinese are producing (not too efficient anymore) PV cells en masse. meanwhile, american politicians are subsidizing shitty crops.
the funny part is that the same US government that paid for the research of PV technology is making it hard for US people to install solar PV panels in their own roofs. talk about retardation.

[Anonymous No.10693906]

>>10693904
Good argument. You really showed him

[Anonymous No.10693908]

>>10693900
>a competitive market
Are you saying your ideas aren't competitive

[Anonymous No.10693910]

>>10693906
I don't have to show him shit, he has to show me these walking contradiction socialist countries with high levels of economic freedom.

[Anonymous No.10693915]

>>10693900
I am saying you would do it because the payoff would be billions and ownership of the energy markets for the years to come. You also don't need to do it on your own. You can just form a company with hundreds of HNW investors with the same goal of owning the energy markets and then just plowing through continent.

>>10693905
Then China will win. It's that easy. If the US is willing to lose this race then they deserve to die. I'll make sure to schedule some Mandarin classes soon.

[Anonymous No.10693917]

>>10693908
I'm saying my ideas aren't patentable, you moron. Once the laws have been changed so that anyone can hook up power to the grid then any Tom, Dick, or Harry who knows a solar installer and has a couple thousand becomes my competitor. You would know this if any of your claims were true

[Anonymous No.10693918]

>>10693904
But there are:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom

Three Nordic-Model countries ranked above the US. You should also check out rankings for healthcare and housing since those paint an even more bleak picture for the so-called efficient distribution of goods and services in the American model of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.10693921]

>>10693915
>ownership of the energy markets for the years to come.
Confirmed 12 years old. The laws can't be changed so that only I can use the grid and the massive debt I would then be operating on would run me out of business

[Anonymous No.10693922]

>>10693905
How much of Chinese energy demand is filled by solar power?

[Anonymous No.10693925]

>>10693922
12 gigawatts. More than any other country on the planet

[Anonymous No.10693928]

>>10693918
>Nordic-Model
None of those countries are socialist anon, but let's pretend they are for the sake of argument. How does Norway subsidizing its government programs with oil money help fight climate change?

[Anonymous No.10693930]

>>10693925
>In 2013, China's total annual electricity output was 5.398 trillion kWh and the annual consumption was 5.380 trillion kWh with an installed capacity of 1247 GW (all the largest in the world)

So a tiny percentage of capacity in other words. What's holding them back from fully switching to solar?

The oil lobby?

[Anonymous No.10693935]

>>10693930
Time. They consider reliance on fossil fuels to be a weakness and so they're installing renewables faster than any other country on the planet

[Anonymous No.10693936]

>>10693928
>None of those countries are socialist anon

This is the circular reasoning of American libertarians and conservatives.

1. Someone argues that a more progressive tax policy and market regulation can result in a more equitable economy that better serves the needs of the lower and middle class.

2. Market fanboy falsely equates the above policy to 'communist slavery'

3. Someone brings up the fact that these exact policies have been successfully implemented in countries which describe themselves as largely socialist

4. Market fanboy revises position and changes the goalposts so that the Nordic Model is actually just capitalism all along

>How does Norway subsidizing its government programs with oil money help fight climate change?

That has nothing to do with the fact that the US actually offers less economic freedom by refusing to properly reign in its markets. You're changing the topic because your argument doesn't stand up on its own.

[Anonymous No.10693946]

>>10693935
That's the propaganda line, at the end of the day China still produces 80% of its electricity with coal. So what I want to know is if it's truly as simple to switch to solar as you make it out to be, why is China taking so long to do it despite the fact that there are no greedy capitalist oil and coal lobbyists to get in the way?

[Anonymous No.10693951]

>>10693936
>1. Someone argues that a more progressive tax policy and market regulation can result in a more equitable economy that better serves the needs of the lower and middle class.
Gee, and here I was thinking this thread was about how socialism offered the answer to climate change.

[Anonymous No.10693953]

>>10693946
>So what I want to know is if it's truly as simple to switch to solar as you make it out to be, why is China taking so long to do it

They're actually moving rather quickly relative to their stage of economic development. Remember that China is a developing nation with GDP per capita roughly 15% that of the US.

Also they're one of the only places making major strides in research for new and alternative models for nuclear power.

[Anonymous No.10693956]

>>10693951
>Gee, and here I was thinking this thread was about how socialism offered the answer to climate change.

Not necessarily socialism, but regulation is the only answer to climate change. Firms act as independent entities seeking to maximize their annual profits, and there is nothing about the current state of the world that aligns that sort of system with expansion of renewable energy.

The strides that have been made in recent years are wholly because of the subsidies that have managed to lower the price of renewables like solar.

[Anonymous No.10693957]

>>10693893
People who see the unavoidable problem with AGW and capitalism are not necessarily communists. Global warming is something that cannot be escaped except through death. You can't fall back on proclaiming society to be fundamentally an industrial economy to escape those facts. Nature precedes society and society must be constructed around the bare facts of existence, regardless of what model of government you choose.

[Anonymous No.10693973]

>>10693957
>Nature precedes society
Which is precisely why combating climate change is a fool's errand. Until nature causes our models of society to become impossible, our model of society will exist, be it through us or through the developing nations that will supplant ours whose pollution people make excuses for because "at least they're trying". Fighting AGW by definition is just people trying to make society precede nature.

Let me ask you something.
Do you have the balls to tell the people of Africa that they're not allowed to develop and will never be allowed to be anything other poor with a low standard of living? Do you have the balls to go to war to force them to be poor when they tell you to go fuck yourself?

I ask because that's what actually fighting AGW would require. Not just sacrifice by already comfortable Westerners, but sacrifice by the masses of the world.

[Anonymous No.10693982]

>>10693922
they not only produce it for internal use, though. they also sell a shitload of PV cells.

[Anonymous No.10693988]

>>10693956
>there is nothing about the current state of the world that aligns that sort of system with expansion of renewable energy.

That's because renewable energy is bullshit that doesn't actually meet the demands of human society. You going to ship all those goods made in China around the world with solar power? Are all those Chinese fishing fleets strip-fishing the seas bare to meet market demand going to operate off of solar power?

[Anonymous No.10693989]

>>10693973
>Which is precisely why combating climate change is a fool's errand. Until nature causes our models of society to become impossible, our model of society will exist, be it through us or through the developing nations that will supplant ours whose pollution people make excuses for because "at least they're trying". Fighting AGW by definition is just people trying to make society precede nature.

All I'm hearing is "fixing a massive, emergent problem is impossible because I say so"

>Do you have the balls to tell the people of Africa that they're not allowed to develop and will never be allowed to be anything other poor with a low standard of living?

There are multiple African nations on the brink of becoming industrialized (South Africa and Rwanda, especially) and neither of them produce a comparable amount of CO2 per capita as the United States, a country which is already developed. The talking points you're using to justify inaction against climate change are all myths.

[Anonymous No.10693990]

>>10693973
>hurr durr I'm a retard
>ackshually solving globul warman is da problum
yikes

[Anonymous No.10693994]

>>10693988
>You going to ship all those goods made in China around the world with solar power?

If emissions were reduced entirely to those produced by diesel-powered boats, we would probably meet most of the goals set out in the Paris Agreement.

It also appears on a cursory google search that fully-autonomous cargo carrier vessels already exist, so there's that too.

[Anonymous No.10693999]

>>10693989
>There are multiple African nations on the brink of becoming industrialized (South Africa and Rwanda, especially) and neither of them produce a comparable amount of CO2 per capita as the United States, a country which is already developed
That's my whole point dumbass.
Are you going to force them not to industrialize?
What fucking good does it do if America meets every one of your arbitrary climate change goals, but those countries make up the difference when they inevitably develop as Africans strive to raise their standard of living?
>um guys, you need to go back to living in tiny huts and eating bugs because climate change
Yes I'm sure that will go over REAL well.

[Anonymous No.10694001]

>>10693994
>Fully autonomous cargo carriers
Are you operating under the impression that the ships crew is the chief cause of emissions, and not the ship's engine?

[Anonymous No.10694003]

>>10694001
My bad - left out the operative word. Fully-autonomous electric cargo carrier vessels.

[Anonymous No.10694011]

>>10693999
>Are you going to force them not to industrialize?

Read: on the brink of. They are 90% of the way there, and they're still doing way better on cutting emissions than rich countries with the overwhelming financial wherewithal to do better.

>What fucking good does it do if America meets every one of your arbitrary climate change goals, but those countries make up the difference when they inevitably develop as Africans strive to raise their standard of living?

More good than if you don't do anything because you're prematurely convinced the rest of the world will eventually ruin the goal.

[Anonymous No.10694012]

>>10693999
>Are you going to force them not to industrialize?
they're literally doing that right now lol
>What fucking good does it do if America meets every one of your arbitrary climate change goals
It's only "arbitrary" because emissions and temperature increase are a continuum, and because convincing people to go for 80% is easier than convincing them to go for 100%.
>but those countries make up the difference when they inevitably develop as Africans strive to raise their standard of living?
Why is the central part of your argument a hypothetical question?
>um guys, you need to go back to living in tiny huts and eating bugs because climate change
they're literally doing that right now lol

[Anonymous No.10694013]

>>10693440
desd

[Anonymous No.10694014]

>>10694003
>Constructed by Guangzhou Shipyard International Company Ltd, it can travel 80 kilometers (approximately 50 miles) after being charged for 2 hours.

Pardon me for not sharing your optimism.

[Anonymous No.10694015]

>>10694012
>they're literally doing that right now lol
Once again that's the point you dumb fucking faggot.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe they don't want to? That MAYBE they'll use the increasing wealth of their countries to increase their standard of living ?

[Anonymous No.10694016]

>>10693440
>unironically thinking that luxuries are a good thing

[Anonymous No.10694017]

>>10694014
I was actually looking at a project out of Norway, so clearly there are multiple independent firms each working on this same general project.

Again though I reiterate - even if there are edge cases where petroleum needs to be used as an energy source, those don't justify inaction elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.10694022]

>>10694015
man you seem really comfortable gambling the future of humanity on a complete hypothetical

[Anonymous No.10694026]

>>10694017
Until they can make an electric ship that can travel thousands of miles across an ocean powering it's way through 12 meter waves, it's meaningless feel-good propaganda. A man with a garden-hose standing against a California wildfire.

[Anonymous No.10694028]

>>10694022
>People wanting to live better lives is a hypothetical.
Humanity has no future.

[Anonymous No.10694031]

>>10694028
People taking certain courses of action in the future is a hypothetical, yes.

[Anonymous No.10694032]

>>10694026
real quick: give me your best estimate for what percentage of global CO2 emissions come from cargo ships

>Humanity has no future.

Alright Donnie Darko, I'll go stand with the people who are actually doing shit

[Anonymous No.10694039]

>>10693449

[Anonymous No.10694183]

>>10693936
>the US actually offers less economic freedom by refusing to properly reign in its markets


Do you mean American movies dominate the shitty European movies?
Do you mean American designed phones dominate the Shitty European phones?
Do you mean American planes dominate over shitty European planes?

You are mad because American products are so good?

[Anonymous No.10694221]

>>10694183
>Doesn't know what economic freedom is
>Feels compelled to post anyways

[Anonymous No.10694337]

>>10693740
not with +6 degrees global average temperature and no imported fossil fuels

[Anonymous No.10694373]

>>10693440
Air travel only makes up 2% of all emissions.

[Anonymous No.10694402]

>>10694373
But is responsible for 5% of anthropogenic climate change and this sector keeps growing.

[Anonymous No.10695250]

>>10693581

argumentum ad verecundiam from a literal koch-sucker

[Anonymous No.10695264]

>>10693571
too bad our cropland is completely packed tight with no room to expand, then.

anyway, biofuels are a bridge technology, not an endpoint. it will be a long time before we get all ICE vehicles off the roads, if we ever manage to do that. in the meantime, why not switch their fuel source to something that's almost carbon-neutral?

[Anonymous No.10695282]

>>10694026
>>10694014

>it doesn't work now
>so it'll never work

wew

[Anonymous No.10695330]

>>10694032
>real quick: give me your best estimate for what percentage of global CO2 emissions come from cargo ships
90% if you include the things the cargo ships are transporting.

[Anonymous No.10695336]

>>10695282
I thought this was the science board?

[Anonymous No.10695360]

>>10694026
>Until they can make an electric ship
there's already really interesting projects that help reduce fuel costs by basically putting a big kite on the ship. gives about a 5% fuel saving for basically no input. and besides, it's the open ocean. there's no reason a container ship can't be loaded up with fucktons of solar panels or towing a fleet of them or something.

the real reason we don't have efficient ships is because of economics of international shipping. whoever charters a given trip across the ocean is responsible for fuel costs, so there's very little incentive for the owners of the ship to invest in fuel saving tech

[Anonymous No.10695379]

>>10693440

>https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/05/us-department-of-energy-is-now-referring-to-fossil-fuels-as-freedom-gas/

>US Department of Energy is now referring to fossil fuels as “freedom gas”

What's wrong all the people who are advocating against fossil fuels? Do they hate FREEDOM or something?

[Anonymous No.10695384]

>>10694026
>Until they can make an electric ship that can travel thousands of miles across an ocean powering it's way through 12 meter waves, it's meaningless feel-good propaganda. A man with a garden-hose standing against a California wildfire.
You mean something like an Aircraft carrier? Those usually run on electricity.

[Anonymous No.10695403]

>>10695330
I think this might be the dumbest post in this entire thread, impressive.

[Anonymous No.10695433]

>>10693440
Those planes aren’t drawn to scale retard.

[Anonymous No.10695438]

>>10693440
The ten largest cargo ships in th world produce more Co2 than all consumer Co2 emissions in the world, combined.

[Anonymous No.10695449]

>>10694016
What if you worked hard for your luxuries though?

[Anonymous No.10695451]

>>10695438
Wrong.

[Anonymous No.10695456]

>>10695451
I used hyperbole so people would look and see that it’s the same footprint as Germany’s total output.

[Anonymous No.10695463]

>>10695456
>I was just pretending to be retarded

[Anonymous No.10695467]

>>10695463
10 boats > all of Germany
Calling me names wont change that.

[Anonymous No.10695472]

>>10695467
Are you doubling down is this what you actually believe? Will you accept that you're a complete and utter retard if I give you the actual numbers?

[Anonymous No.10695480]

>>10693514
You psychotic lunatic, doing nothing is about a million times better than literally doing everything you can to fuck things up even more - and convincing yourself that you're fixing things.

[Anonymous No.10695512]

>>10695467
>>10695472
>http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/Environment/PollutionPrevention/AirPollution/Pages/Greenhouse-Gas-Studies-2014.aspx
>International shipping accounts for approximately 2.2% and 2.1% of global CO2 and GHG emissions on a CO2 equivalent (CO2e) basis
>Germany emitted 1.8% of global GHG during 2012
>https://www.climatewatchdata.org/ghg-emissions?breakBy=regions-ABSOLUTE_VALUE&chartType=percentage&regions=WORLD
the world shipping fleet consisted of 50,732 ships in 2014
>http://infomaritime.eu/index.php/2018/08/01/top-15-shipowning-countries-2014-2018/
So to summarize Germany emits less GHGs than 50,000 ships and you are a fucking retard. I hope you learned something about accepting retarded info graphics someone posted on 4chan as truth.

[Anonymous No.10695994]

>>10693564
$100 million is roughly 0.2% of the Koch Brothers' net worth.

0.2% of the median household savings account in the US is $9.66. That's how much the Koch Brothers actually care about renewable energy.

[Anonymous No.10697503]

Why do climate change denialists always have to resort to /pol/itics when presented with overwhelming scientific evidence?

[Anonymous No.10697521]

>>10697503
Because their position is untenable

[Anonymous No.10697522]

>>10697503
because their beliefs are political not scientific

[Anonymous No.10697530]

>>10693449
Yes but with the advent of AI, they will probably end up solving climate change.

[Anonymous No.10697571]

>>10697530
>just kill all the humans, that will solve the problem
>which problem? all problems.

[Anonymous No.10697601]

>>10697530
I don't get it

[Anonymous No.10697632]

>>10697530
How the fuck is AI gonna solve that?

[Anonymous No.10697643]

>>10693581
what little bit of money the Koch bros have invested in biofuels is nothing more than to offset their tax burdens by probably getting some kind of govt tax credits for "investing in renewables"

when your a multi billionaire like Kochs or Bill Gates, you're just looking for way to offload a few hundred million here and there to get some kind of tax credits and at the same time get some type of positive PR out of it

[Anonymous No.10697644]

>>10693696
oh well fuckem. we're all better off going completely off grid and having independent power sources of our own, on site under our own personal control

[Anonymous No.10697646]

>>10697632
by exterminating all humans of course. simple and obvious

[Anonymous No.10697649]

>>10697530
you

[Anonymous No.10697652]

>>10697530
>sacrifices queen
nothing personnel k'id

[Anonymous No.10697661]

>>10697649
Shockingly accurate

t. AI student

[Anonymous No.10697664]

well electric planes are slowly becoming a thing. by the end od the next decade they should replace short flights

[Anonymous No.10697667]

>>10697649
You forgot polyamory and transgenderism. Also lesswrongians are some of yhe least nietzschean persons you can find.

[Anonymous No.10697669]

>>10697649
>MDMA
>not amphetamine

[Anonymous No.10697673]

>>10697669
Never met an AI student who did Amphetamines, I know several who take MD though, me included

[Anonymous No.10697930]

>>10693878
The most generic statement ever..

[Anonymous No.10697949]

>>10693696
Where I live you can actually sell excess energy from your solar panels to power plants or something along those lines. That's not my field though so idk. Anyways, for context I know a few ranch owners who do this and their entire operations are now completely solar powered, so it's definitely possible though I suppose that depends on the region.

This is in burgerland too btw.

[Anonymous No.10697960]

>>10693440
>give up air travel
>only way to travel is now by sea
>ship is powered by coal/fossil fuels

Aye aye captain

[Anonymous No.10697973]

>>10695384
A lot of things are powered by electricity, much of which comes from coal in many parts of the world.

[Anonymous No.10698007]

lots of blithering asshurt libshits itt lol

[Anonymous No.10698213]

>>10697949
Those are net metering laws. They vary state to state, but all of them limit the size of your installation and most of them prevent you from making any money. Usually they "pay" you in the form of energy credits that expire after a couple months. These are the laws I'm talking about and they need to go.

[Anonymous No.10698216]

>>10697960
Kek

[Anonymous No.10698219]

Fuck the enviroment, we can just go colonize other planets.

[Anonymous No.10698237]

>>10697960
>>10698216
Man, it's almost like these shills don't know how much energy various forms of transportation use

[Anonymous No.10698246]

>>10698007
>denialist=conservative
you wish but denialists are really just morons

[Anonymous No.10698298]

>>10697649
rly close 4 comfort

[Anonymous No.10698316]

>>10698246
Unfortunately there's a bit of overlap between the two groups.

[Anonymous No.10698330]

>>10695433
/thread

[Anonymous No.10698358]

Yeah we're really going to save the world when people can't even come together long enough to stop name calling to discuss actual strategies.

I guess it's a good thing all of you are basement dwelling fucktards anyway and the real minds are hard at work solving this crisis.

[Anonymous No.10698399]

>>10693918
these countries are all capitalist economies with relatively more social programs they can afford because
A - their populations are smaller
B - they have mostly white populations who don't live on welfare
C - they don't spend half their budget on the military because they're allied with the US

[Anonymous No.10698407]

>>10698399
A - and GDP is way smaller
B - not even going to dignify that with a response
C - Almost like US military spending is unsustainable and unnecessary.

[Anonymous No.10698419]

>>10698407
you know B is true deep in your heart. they've trained you to ignore it but they can't make it go away.
and we can argue about how much military is necessary but you can bet your ass they'd all start scrambling for a military if the US broke their alliance with them

[Anonymous No.10698428]

>>10698419

[Anonymous No.10698436]

>>10698428
like I said, that's not what the argument is about, I'm saying supposed European socialist paradises couldn't afford half the shit they do if they didn't rely on the US for protection and needed their own competent military

[Anonymous No.10698443]

>>10698436
The EU could increase their funding far beyond the combined spending of russia and china with only a marginal increase for each individual nation. US "protection" is unnecessary for the EU.

[Anonymous No.10698468]

>>10698443
the EU is shit and their army will suck if they ever actually make it

[Anonymous No.10698491]

>>10698468
Your butthurt nationalism doesn't change the fact European governments are better for their people than America.

[Anonymous No.10698500]

>>10698468
Loving the non-arguments and claims of supernatural knowledge.

[Anonymous No.10698507]

>>10698491
the ones that aren't arresting people for hate speech and opening the refugee floodgate maybe
>butthurt nationalism
do u know what time the narwhal bacons???

[Anonymous No.10698516]

>>10698507
>the ones that aren't arresting people for hate speech

Arresting people for hate speech is good.

>and opening the refugee floodgate maybe

Allowing in refugees is good. Lol

You’re what happens when you learn all your knowledge of the world from YouTube and /pol/.

[Anonymous No.10698570]

>>10693449
i'd be stoked if by then i somehow miraculously managed to get a huge amount of food and weaponry, else there wouldn't be a point in living

there was recently a trucker strike in my country and shit was fucked up, it didn't get violent but everything went chaos mode so quickly

[Anonymous No.10698580]

>>10698436
Dumbass American propaganda, in the age of nuclear arms. land militaries are hardly necessary anymore. Ameritards just use stuff like this as an excuse to pour even more money into their already bloated military industrial complex under the guise of "protecting the poor euros".

[Anonymous No.10698583]

>>10698516
this seems to be low effort bait but the thing is in clown world you never know for certain anymore

[Anonymous No.10698589]

>>10698580
not even a standard redditor would speak with such overbearing ignorance combined with such confidence. you must be underage as well.
this is going to be a long summer.

[Anonymous No.10698591]

>>10698589
This post was typed by virgin hands

[Anonymous No.10698601]

>>10698589
Not an argument

[Anonymous No.10698619]

>>10698591
>>10698601
LMAO we sure showed him. This website fucking sucks don't you guys agree? Let us together return to the superior internet community that garners the discourse of intellectuals such as ourselves.

[Anonymous No.10698627]

>>10698619
Does accusing people of being redditors win all your internet arguments?

[Anonymous No.10698634]

>>10698619
muda da, they're paid to post here

[Anonymous No.10698647]

>>10693449
I used to but I became more invested in my family and the slow collapse of society into uncertainty is not something I want for the kids. Gonna try to have them ride on their inheritance or at least become adapt enough to fulfill a save and beneficial servant role for the secured elites.

[Anonymous No.10698651]

>>10694337
So they won't have enough to feed the cities. Oh well.
You make it seem like farming was just this impossible feat globally before the 1800s

[Anonymous No.10698652]

>>10693880
>>10693902
>>10693957
Daily reminder that Swedish energy production is almost GHG free, and their energy sector is entirely privatized, aka, capitalism.
They specifically mention the free market on their govt site: https://sweden.se/society/energy-use-in-sweden/

You homosexuals are chasing a boogeyman that agitators have sold to you.

[Anonymous No.10698657]

>>10698652
not even a standard redditor would speak with such overbearing ignorance combined with such confidence. you must be underage as well.
this is going to be a long summer.

[Anonymous No.10698660]

>>10693936
Who says we want equity? Equality of opportunity is what most of us want. Fuckin commie

[Anonymous No.10698667]

>>10693440
Literally just kill the third-worlders.

[Anonymous No.10698668]

>>10693440

All you had to do was accept that nuclear is safe.

[Anonymous No.10698671]

>>10698657
why can lefties never think of anything original to say? is it because everything they think is given to them by someone else?

[Anonymous No.10698674]

>>10693845

Larger installations are more expensive because of the duck curve.

[Anonymous No.10698677]

>>10698671
Not even a leftist, can sense a high levels of butthurt emanating off this post though

[Anonymous No.10698688]

>>10698674
>Imagine being this retarded
The duck curve doesn't have anything to do with the cost of a solar installation. Larger installations cost less in labor and there are discounts for buying components in bulk

[Anonymous No.10698695]

>>10698652
Market participants in capitalism prefer a lack of regulation. Sweden has a regulated capitalism where negative externalities are addressed with laws. That's unfortunately mostly not the case in America when it comes to global warming issues, and particularly not so in developing economies.

[Anonymous No.10698696]

>>10698674
utility scale is cheaper

[Anonymous No.10698699]

>>10698652
Another example of a country with GHG free energy is France who has an almost entirely state owned grid.

[Anonymous No.10698704]

>>10698696

[Anonymous No.10698714]

>>10697673
grow some balls and take both

[Anonymous No.10698716]

>>10698704
Why is rooftop residential so expensive?

[Anonymous No.10698736]

Ok, so let's recap:

>>10698657
Endless stream of ad hominems without even a hint of an argument.

>>10698695
>Capitalism with regulation isn't capitalism, even when the state says so.

>>10698699
Non-sequitur. The original statement was that capitalism was bad and against the environment. Not only that, but France (public sector) is still behind Sweden (private sector). Somehow this is still supposed to be an argument against capitalism.

Keep an open mind, gentlemen. We're on the science board, look at what works and what doesn't. Don't be anti-science.

[Anonymous No.10698759]

>>10698736
I didn't say it "wasn't capitalism." Capitalism is not some monolithic thing, and when it comes to environmental issues a country can have "good capitalism" or "bad capitalism," so to speak. The point is that capitalism wants short-term profit, and firms benefitting from short-term profit and who stand to lose from long-term issues will neglect those issues unless incentivized or forced to behave in a way aligned with the long-term goal, or their competitors are given an advantage that allows them to take over. Fossil fuel firms are doing exactly that in America right now, ignoring the problem and actively shilling to promote public ignorance and delay action.

[Anonymous No.10698773]

>>10698716
Probably mostly the higher instillation costs, combined with expensive small scale inverters compared to utility scale equipment that only needs a single inverter for thousands of panels.

[Anonymous No.10698774]

>>10693449
>>10694039
God I hate collapse fags. It's really easy to pretend that pessimism is realism.

[Anonymous No.10698788]

The idea of perpetual progress isn't realistic. We may stop at a roadblock that takes decades or more to overcome.

Cold fusion was promised decades ago. Where is it?

[Anonymous No.10698798]

>>10693440
I don't even know why people are still discussing if climate change is a real thing if in the end we still need sweeping energy/environmental changes even if it wasn't the case. Oil is a finite resource and we need it for many other products other than fuel. Hell, oil will become more useful as advances in plastic devices have made massive strides and we aren't able to effectively recycle plastics at the moment. It just seems sensible from a resource management perspective to want to conserve finite, but necessary resources. The sun, on the hand, will be around for a pretty bloody long time, much longer than it'll take for humanity to use all of it's oil, so it makes sense to use solar for our energy needs. If people claim it's too costly for "third world shit holes" to afford it then put more money to driving the cost down as people have been doing for a while, if can be made competitive to things like oil and coal they suddenly become viable. In the meantime advances in smaller nuclear modules have substantially driven the cost down of nuclear power which would allow us buffer time to make alternative energies cheap enough to allow more widespread adoption. Hell, you could probably strike a deal with China and India to have them buy solar cells from other nations and pay them back over a period of time. At least that way you get the ball rolling. This isn't even to say this is a complete solution, advances in battery technology are needed, which is another underfunded field of study, but just because there are big challenges doesn't mean we give up, that's stupid and defeatist. Further things like farming and cattle raising are just costly and wasteful. In vitro meat has also begun to make strides and is more land conservative. I genuinely don't understand why conservatives don't want any environmental policies that ultimately result in more resource/land conservative action, especially if it could be made economically profitable & if it is inevitable.

[Anonymous No.10698835]

>>10698774
Where is your evidence that everything will be just fine? The best case scenario for us right now is a boring dystopia.

[Anonymous No.10698843]

>>10698677
can sense high levels of lying on the internet from this post

[Anonymous No.10698847]

>>10698688
it ousts you as a newfag when you don't know how to use the meme arrows

[Anonymous No.10698855]

>>10698736
the "ad hominem" post was just him repeating what someone else had said to him earlier (that's how they argue on facebook)

[Anonymous No.10698869]

>>10698835
>Where is your evidence that everything will be just fine
Where's your evidence that your butthole will be fine when I get my hands on you?

[Anonymous No.10698876]

>>10697530
AI will solve climate change by teaching us to give up our luxuries for a more naturalistic, yet technologized, lifestyle. Something akin to the word "ecotopia". Think like, technotribalism.

[Anonymous No.10698893]

>>10698847
You have to go back
>>>/hm/

[Anonymous No.10698931]

>>10698893
wow good one
lurk for 2 years before posting please

[Anonymous No.10698979]

>>10698931
I've been here since I was underage a decade ago. Form a coherent argument of go back to fantasizing about dicks

[Anonymous No.10698992]

>>10698436
>if they didn't rely on the US for protection
>he actually thinks northern european countries would be shaking in their boots if the US didn't spend half of everything on its military

[Anonymous No.10699074]

>>10698835
Lazy people get lazy results. Get to work and make a better world like the best of us.

[Anonymous No.10699109]

>>10693509
>5C+ locked in
>>10693600
>5C+ nearly assured
>>10694337
>+6 degrees

LMAO, before this thread is over we'll have 10 degrees of man-made global wammin.
Meanwhile we're hardly at 1 degree even though CO2 went up 50%.
Also if it really becomes an undeniable issue, which it clearly is not as of today. We can technically still plant enough trees to sequester all excess carbon.

A 100 year old oak can weigh up to 20 tonnes containing 10 tonnes of carbon and sequestering 30 tonnes of CO2, not counting what it puts into the soil over its lifetime. The average person on the planet produces 5 tonnes a year. So with 17 oak trees you could easily counteract his production. You only need a plot of land of 1000 m^2 for this and I'm exaggerating.
7.5 billion people
7.5 trillion m^2 land
7.5 million km^2 land
151 million km^2 is Earth's total land area.
Every nation on earth should just assign 5% of it's landmass to be reforested.
Done, solved.
You're welcome.

[Anonymous No.10699113]

>>10699109
Exact amount of warming is mostly dependent on how aggressive we curb emissions, as it depends on human action it's impossible to predict.

[Anonymous No.10699120]

>>10699109
Good shit, some actual thought going into a post, I'm impressed with you 4chan, but how will you beat our evil alien overlords who psychically keep people trapped in ignorance and ineptitude so we can never evolve to the 4th density and become breathefarian beings of light?

[Anonymous No.10699129]

Global Warming is just one of the different things contributing to the end of the society.
What about toxic aspects of technology that are breaking down human bodies and activating latent diseases due to the poison in the bloodstream that wasn't present a century ago. This is causing infertility too.
And not to mention the rise of Nazism that's gonna start another world war.
Humans are destroying the environment, themselves and then getting ready for war. It's 3 in one.

[Anonymous No.10699138]

>>10698583
Says the guy who wants a race war right now to destroy the planet in nuclear hellfire. Stop pretending you care about anything

[Anonymous No.10699144]

>>10699109
do you honestly think people haven't thought of that before?

[Anonymous No.10699145]

>>10699129
>rise of Nazism
What?

[Anonymous No.10699151]

>>10699145
What else do you call ultranationalism?
Are anti immigration parties gonna stop at ethnostate stage? They're gonna start a world war once they've killed or deported all their immigrants. We are overdue for one too.

[Anonymous No.10699154]

>>10699151
would be pretty cool if the US gets to be the axis of evil this time around.

[Anonymous No.10699163]

>>10699151
I don't think a bunch of boomers voting for a wall and euros trying to break away from the eu is comparable to nazism.

[Anonymous No.10699168]

>>10699163
>I don't see trends
But lucky for you, I do.

>>10699154
USA was kind of always the bad guy except during world war 2. WW2 vets were actually somewhat good men and voted for logical shit. Their parents and kids weren't.

[Anonymous No.10699172]

>>10699163
if you dont see it you're either willfully ignorant or part of the problem

[Anonymous No.10699252]

>>10699109
>oak trees
>151 million km^2 is Earth's total land area.
kek.. the mind of a child

[Anonymous No.10699332]

>>10699109
I'm pessimistic because there is an army of denialists, including Trump, and progress on the issue has been very slow. As >>10699113 points out, it's impossible to predict the amount of warming since it depends mostly on the aggressiveness of human action to solve the problem. Considering the obstructionist deniers, I have very little hope that it won't be a catastrophe. Your back of the envelope calculation is illustrative but also too simplistic to characterize the full situation. More than afforestation is required, particularly in light of soil erosion and the threat of desertification as a result of increased temperatures.

[Anonymous No.10699345]

>>10693564
>Spend millions lobbying anti-climate change propaganda
>Realize nature acts and changes regardless of how many idiots you convince otherwise
>Diversify holdings to cut losses on a dying industry
>Said army of idiots now acting as if they were environmental angels all along
The stupidity of the stooge is above belief. Not to mention bio fuel does create more issues than it solves.

[Anonymous No.10699692]

>>10698759
I agree with all that, but whatever. My original point was that capitalism isn't inherently bad for the environment, and I think I made that point.

There's no capitalist countries without any regulations, and yes, some of those countries have better, some worse. It's no reason to dismantle capitalism, especially given its success otherwise.

[Anonymous No.10699701]

>>10698570
that trucker strike was lit. moving to Santa Catarina soon so I can live in a comfy farm self-sustaining myself

[Anonymous No.10699877]

>>10697673
God I regret taking MDMA. I have gotten permanently damaged.

[Anonymous No.10700128]

>>10693449
i'll just move back into the wilderness where i was born and tend to my crops and shoot deer and moose and big chicken birds like my ancestors did in the same forest

[Anonymous No.10700859]

>>10693440
Use electric zeppelins.

[Anonymous No.10700900]

>>10695360
>there's no reason a container ship can't be loaded up with fucktons of solar panels or towing a fleet of them or something.

As long as they can build some extremely durable panels which can withstand saltwater and various storms which pop up that may work. A lot of people really underestimate how much the sea and salt can fuck your shit up.

The panels alone probably couldn't power the entire vessel, but at least they could cut down on the amount of fuel needed. Plus it's good to have a backup in the event of a rogue wave or something knocking out the panels.

[Anonymous No.10700989]

>>10699877
Your own fault. Test and measure any stimulant, one month rule, no exceptions.

>inb4: b-but I did all those!

[Anonymous No.10700992]

>>10699109
not even a standard redditor would speak with such overbearing ignorance combined with such confidence. you must be underage as well.
this is going to be a long summer.

[Anonymous No.10701119]

>>10699151
>Are anti immigration parties gonna stop at ethnostate stage
Most anti-immigration parties don't even want an ethnostate.

[Anonymous No.10701343]

>>10701119
You must be a liberal

[Anonymous No.10701369]

>climate change
>bad
Why do retards say this? It's literally going to save the world. You realize it will overwhelmingly affect the third world and areas near the equator? Have you seen Africa's population projections lately?

[Anonymous No.10701376]

>>10699109
brb planting oaks in the Sahara

[Anonymous No.10701385]

>>10701369
That's totally wrong because pesticides will turn them infertile anyway. Fake graph btw. There's /pol/tards saying Europe would be 50% muslim by now it didn't happen

[Anonymous No.10701393]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc_4Z1oiXhY
Geo-Engineering can fix everything, but no-one is having that conversation. I wonder why? Could it be because climate change is less of an issue and more of a political tool for hysteric retards? Sort of like
>>10699129

We can literally lower the global temperature 1 degree c by just painting most roads and roofs to be white or grey. It's totally insane and meaningless to worry about climate change in the west when it's growing nations in the east that will have the most impact ultimately and we have zero control over the likes of India and China who absolutely do not give a shit and will rightfully continue industrialize because their societies depend on it.

[Anonymous No.10701396]

>>10701385
>fake graph
>from the UN
Go and find a single similarly reputable source that isn't in line with my data, I'll wait.
>hurr durr but poltards said!
Has nothing to do with this.

[Anonymous No.10701397]

>>10699332
>progress on the issue has been very slow
How can you be this deluded? We've made insane developments on energy, the us is literally energy independent right now. What is so slow? Of course people are going to deny it because the main supporters of "climate change action" dont actually want to fix anything, they just want to tax people

[Anonymous No.10701399]

>>10701396
>Birthrates are dropping all over Africa
>No they're going to go to 50 billion!
Wew

[Anonymous No.10701403]

>>10693449
>to see

You mean horrified to watch as it currently collapses at a snail's pace?

[Anonymous No.10701415]

>>10701399
>hurr durr what is the following downward trend
Do you even understand a projection is? Can't help but notice you still didn't post a source for your non-argument.

[Anonymous No.10701473]

>>10701415
Btw Africans don't use resources. And they're not even gonna be allowed to, they'll be working long hours for low wages in Chinese factories for most of this century. As technology improves there will be efficient consumption because north europe is producing sustainable technology to low their rates per capita which will be given to the Africans later when they're able to afford it. I voted today and my party won. We're going green.
It'll be totally fine.

[Anonymous No.10701536]

>>10701119
absolute nonsense

[Anonymous No.10701545]

>>10701536
I'm anti-immigration because I'm anti population growth. I couldn't give a shit about an ethnostate.

[Anonymous No.10701577]

>>10701545
i don't give a shit what your personal opinions are, you said "anti-immigration parties"

[Anonymous No.10701584]

>>10701577
ya ok. this is my 2nd post in this thread, buddy. I just saw you assuming anti-immigrant = racism and took exception.

now, kindly go fuck yourself

[Anonymous No.10701601]

>>10701584
i can't think of a single reason to be anti-immigrant that isn't racism, to be quite honest.

[Anonymous No.10701615]

>>10701601
Well thats probably because you're a fucking moron.
Without immigration, my country's population would not be growing. My countrys consumption would not be growing. My country's production of waste, and co2 emissions would not be growing.
Hence I am anti-immigration.

You're a fucking idiot. Playing right into the hands of the fascist mega-corporations that literally need the population in the west to continually to grow to make a profit.

[Anonymous No.10701620]

>>10701615
Got it, pointless, unfounded racism.

[Anonymous No.10701626]

>>10701620
you're a fucking fascist - the neoliberal sjw type. Pretty cool niche you got yourself. you get to virtue signal while sucking the status quo corporate cock.

[Anonymous No.10701627]

>>10701626
Lol why are you so mad at the idea of being called racist? I would have thought you'd embrace it.

[Anonymous No.10701632]

>>10701627
You are the only racist here.

[Anonymous No.10701635]

>>10701620
I honestly can't see how that post is racist. Care to explain.

[Anonymous No.10701636]

>>10701632
Ah yes, welcoming immigrants regardless of their country of origin makes me racist. You have the biggest, most wrinkled brain I've ever seen. Mine is a cueball in comparison.

[Anonymous No.10701637]

>>10701635
See, you're making the mistake of trying to engage with them in good faith.

[Anonymous No.10701639]

>>10701627
Do you believe that people outside of the west are incapable of improving their lot in life without immigrating to the west?

Seems like deep down you are an actual bigot, in the truest sense of the word.

[Anonymous No.10701645]

>>10701636
>more repulsive virtue signaling
>from the hypocritical bigot who unironically believes "those poor poor poor 3rd worlders need our help"

[Anonymous No.10701646]

>>10701639
I believe that your nationality or ethnicity doesn't matter, your achievement in life is a function of the environment you're present in and you can be successful and productive in the right environment no matter what country you came from.

[Anonymous No.10701647]

>>10701397
Energy independence is NOT progress on decarbonization. Decarbonization is happening slower than it needs to in virtually every industrialized country. We're on pace for several degrees Celsius warming at the current rate of decarbonization.

[Anonymous No.10701657]

>>10701646
So you believe that people outside of the west live in a bad environment, then
good
for
you

[Anonymous No.10701666]

>>10701657
i think that bad governments can exist anywhere. for example, south american migrants would be MUCH better served going to canada than the USA, which is a hellscape that NO ONE should aspire to live in. Japan, as racist as it can be against its own minority populations and against foreigners, at least has much better healthcare than the USA. Similarly, South Korea has a healthcare system orders of magnitude better than the USA. My point of view is not limited to immigration to western countries; if anyone can find a better country anywhere in the world, i think they should be able to find success there.

[Anonymous No.10701673]

>>10701666
>i think
I really don't give a fuck what you think. I didn't read the rest of the shit you wrote because you're a fucking moron. You called me a racist for giving you a good reason besides racism to be against immigration (population growth).

Now I realize you obviously don't give a fuck about the numbers, i.e. emissions/pollution etc. when you convert a low carbon footprint 3rd worlder into a high carbon foot print 1st worlder, you just want virtue signal and destroy peoples lives for telling the truth by calling them racists.

Now, kindly, go fuck yourself. You disgusting hypocritical virtue signaling fascist scum.

[Anonymous No.10701676]

>>10701673
i also dont give a fuck what a racist on 4chan thinks

[Anonymous No.10701682]

>>10701676
Then go back to fucking reddit you fucking waste.

[Anonymous No.10701690]

>>10701682
lol im not a redditor dumbass. i nuked all my accounts seven years ago and never looked back. i'm a channer through and through, have been for more than a decade

[Anonymous No.10701696]

>>10701690
Take back the racist charge.

[Anonymous No.10701700]

>>10701696
nope!

[Anonymous No.10701703]

OC up ITT

1984

>inb4 Orwell

[Anonymous No.10701706]

>Human cognition takes a detectable hit at 800ppm CO2

>indoor residential, commercial and industrial regularly exceed this threshold

[Anonymous No.10701708]

>>10701700
You're obviously a sick, vindictive little man then. More interested in playing vindictively little games and destroying people then in truth or solving real world problems. We can be enemies if you want. I'm fine with that.

[Anonymous No.10701711]

>>10701708
My overall goal is to support a shift toward socialism in the united states as a means to effectively fight climate change, to treat minorities and immigrants equally, and to provide free healthcare to all people present in the country.

[Anonymous No.10701719]

>>10701711
Ya sure it is...
Anyone who puts their trust in someone like you (including your precious immigrants) will pay dearly sooner or later.

[Anonymous No.10701724]

>>10701719
i'm a fucking nobody. nobody puts their trust in me. i'm literally nothing but one vote among millions.

[Anonymous No.10701726]

>>10701724
liar

[Anonymous No.10701730]

Mauna Loa Observatory | Atmospheric CO2 Concentrations
June 2, 2019
414.28 ppm
NOAA-ESRL
June 2, 2018
410.66 ppm
NOAA-ESRL


414.28 ppm-410.66 ppm=3.62 increase (0.87% growth rate per year)

Therefore,

800ppm=414.28ppm*e^(x*0.87)

1. What year will atmospheric CO2 reach 800ppm?

2. How many human beings will be on the planet and how many of them will suffer cognitive impairment from the CO2 enriched atmosphere?

[Anonymous No.10701733]

>>10701730
The genes that cause cognitive impairment in high co2 air will disappear, as will the genes that cause one to give a fuck about the environment.

[Anonymous No.10701734]

>>10701733
I don't think you understand how long evolution takes or how quickly the climate is changing

[Anonymous No.10701738]

>>10701734
maybe not. still you can't argue that forces of natural selection aren't already pushing the species in a certain direction

[Anonymous No.10701741]

>>10701738
Yep, extinction. Apparently we never evolved to be smart enough to clean up after ourselves so we don't choke on shit

[Anonymous No.10701743]

What year will CO2 reach 800ppm?

[Anonymous No.10701751]

>>10701741
There are 8 billion people. I doubt that at least a few of them don't have the genes to think clearly enough in an extremely polluted high co2 environment to effectively hunt and eat rats.

[Anonymous No.10701755]

>>10697649
id rather be that guy than a boomer tbqh.

[Anonymous No.10701756]

>>10698876
holy based as fuck. kinda of like wakanda

[Anonymous No.10701761]

>>10701751
Nobody has ever needed them. If they exist at all it's a complete fluke and they almost definitely don't

[Anonymous No.10701763]

But wait there's more.


1. What is the current trend of IQ, corrected for migration and concentration of populations?

>Answer: Declining.

2. Estimate effect of accumulations of Ozone (O3), PM2.5-10, nanoparticles, and Chloro- & Fluoro- Nitro- Methyls on human cognition.

[Anonymous No.10701768]

>>10701393
>chy
>nuh
https://www.windy.com/-Show-add-more-layers/overlays?cosc,20.221,109.336,3

[Anonymous No.10701769]

>>10693514
>Literally
>literally
Literally twice in one literal sentence.

[Anonymous No.10701778]

Imagine breathing 800ppm CO2 air with a body burden many times higher PFOA and PFOS because Trumpf did nothing, your parents did nothing, the media didn't even care....

[Anonymous No.10701790]

>>10701730
>0.87% growth rate per year
faulty since CO2 releases increase at higher rates every year

[Anonymous No.10701807]

>>10701790
the 2.7% increase is almost identical to the economic/population growth increase, and always has been

what evidence do the carbon tax shills have that it will change that relationship?

[Anonymous No.10701810]

>>10701682
Reddit is right wing. Their admins won't ban the Donald but are about to ban chapotraphouse for calling for the deaths of slave owners. Reddit is fascist. Even 4chan is more leftist than Reddit.

[Anonymous No.10701814]

>>10701763
IQ won't decline if education is improved. Stop gate-keeping education.

[Anonymous No.10701829]

>>10701810
>advocating murder is the same as supporting a president who likes to spout off on Twitter but has moderate center-right politics
This is why we can't have nice things

[Anonymous No.10701844]

>>10701829
Advocating for the execution of slave owners that died centuries ago is somehow murder?

[Anonymous No.10701847]

>>10701829
The_donald and frenworld advocate for murder every day. The thing is that the admins have a nazi agenda. Remember corporations sided with Hitler and built his his chambers. This is simply a repeat.

[Anonymous No.10702688]

>>10701847
>reddit has a natsee agenda
you failed in life

[Anonymous No.10702693]

>>10702688
Admins love r/the_donald

[Anonymous No.10702872]

>>10702693
It's pretty much the biggest revenue stream none of the dumb boomers there adblock

[Anonymous No.10702879]

>>10702872
Plus they buy and use Reddit gold every day. I guess the money is worth for those kike admins. Reddit is now a training camp for Nazism. Like Siemens was serving nazis when they built gas chambers for Hitler

[Anonymous No.10702888]

>>10702879
sure nigger

[Anonymous No.10702893]

>>10702888
You'd be doing better on reddit with your nazi redditor buddies.

[Anonymous No.10702904]

>>10693440
I firmly believe that climate warriors that by default only do moral panderig for internet points on various platforms need to be made to live what they preach. This means human chicken cages as their apartments because tight living is more ecolocigal also reduces heating, only vegan diet consisting of organic barley and oats for them, just water for drink rainwater that is, only cold showers, no cars, no flying, no oil based products, no complex multiphase products like electronics, no unnatural chemicals like toothpaste, I want them all locked up and starving in such super ecolocigal chicken pens, fuck people like them, all of them, they need to finally die or at least live miserably by their own preaching driven to logical extremities, I hate them so much, and for their happiness pushing them all into chicken cages to live like that would immensely reduce carbon footprint, so you are concerned about climate, well we can and must force you like you actually do you fucking pure evil fuck.

[Anonymous No.10702910]

>>10702893
t. never used reddit

[Anonymous No.10702929]

>>10702910
;)

[Anonymous No.10702991]

>>10693845
It's not that simple. You can't just run numbers and think that's how it will work out in the real world. For example the energy grid is a demand based system. A huge investment in energy storage (batteries) would be needed to convert over to purely solar and you have losses because batteries are like 80% efficient and it would be a maintenance nightmare. Yes batteries need maintenance. Also your cost calculations are based upon current consumption. When demand rises the price won't be static, resources to produce panels and batteries may be limited and price could become cost prohibited. Then there's the cost of converting every vehicle to electric. And long haul trucks are impractical to electrify because of the laws of physics.

It makes more sense to run your country on nuclear than solar for reducing co2.

[Anonymous No.10703017]

>>10702991
t. Bad at math

[Anonymous No.10703029]

>>10698580
>in the age of nuclear arms. land militaries are hardly necessary anymore.
If the object is controlling resources you can't use nukes dumbass.

[Anonymous No.10703059]

>>10703017
>does simple calculation
>doesnt factor in major factors
>muh math is correct! It's easy to convert over to full solar

Your math is only as good as the information you use. There's a reason why factor of safety margins are used in engineering, and it's because you can't be 100% sure of every variable. There's too many variables in economics to just say it will cost X to convert an economy over to solar.

[Anonymous No.10703065]

>>10703059
My math was an overestimated that concluded that the price of solar installations capable of powering all of the US would cost less than a single year of oil subsidies. How many years do you think it will take to pay for batteries? How long to you think.it would take to install it all?

You are bad at math

[Anonymous No.10703092]

>>10703065
>oil subsidies
fossil fuel subsidies

[Anonymous No.10703117]

>>10703065
>How many years do you think it will take to pay for batteries?
You're assuming unlimited easy to mine resources for batteries. "Rare" earth metals are not unlimited. You're not factoring in maintenance of batteries and the fact they have a life expectancy. You did not factor in the 80% loss of energy. And you sure as fuck didn't account for the fact that electric trucking is impractical. You did not factor in the electrifying cars. Your "math" is right, your logic is not and therefore can not be applied to the real world with any semblance of accuracy.
Pumping out some basic equation then applying it to the real world almost never works out. The real world is more complicated than your simple high school equation. You'll learn when you get out of school that reality does not conform to your ideals.

[Anonymous No.10703124]

>>10703117
>Imagine being this retarded
Oh, well I guess I'll just use saltwater batteries or any of the other feasible options

[Anonymous No.10703165]

>>10703124
>are low power and slow to charge and discharge. The faster they are charged or discharged the more energy is lost as waste heat and the lower their efficiency and capacity. To provide the maximum amount of stored electricity they need to be discharged very slowly.

Sounds like a very impractical battery to use in a electric vehicle... not only that the mass is significantly more than current li-ion batteries for the same watthours.

>but muh battery technology will get better to the point it will be practical
(Assuming), wishful thinking based on your optimistic ideals.

[Anonymous No.10703181]

>>10703165
>We can only use one technology
Wew, lad. You seem to really want to spend several times more money to continue polluting the Earth.

There is no possible way that all of the maintenance and costs that I "forgot" will add up to more than 10 billion dollars per year so why are you advocating that we continue spending such an absurd amount to prop up an industry that would otherwise fail?

[Anonymous No.10703182]

>>10702904
You consume more for your redundant and useless consumption based job then you do when you're off work. The world would be better off if people like you were given a guaranteed basic income and told to just fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10703183]

Soon.

[Anonymous No.10703253]

>>10703181
>You seem to really want to spend several times more money to continue polluting the Earth.
CO2 being classified as a pollutant is absurd. A single human being produces probably ~700kg of co2/year just by being alive. Clearly the answer is you stop breathing.
>why are you advocating that we continue spending such an absurd amount to prop up an industry that would otherwise fail?
You're assuming that the reason why they subsidize it is because it wouldn't be economically viable to still use which is not the case. Lots of renewable power is heavily subsidized around the world, guess it's not viable by your logic. Like I said, your logic is flawed. Food is heavily subsidized as well. Things are subsidized because it furthers the goals of the organization. Most likely it's subsidized to promote population and economic growth, not to make it "viable."

[Anonymous No.10703271]

>>10703253
>Imagine being this retarded
You should Google "carbon cycle" and feel bad about your ignorance

>You're assuming that the reason why they subsidize it is because it wouldn't be economically viable to still use which is not the case.
Wew, lad. Renewables are already competitive with all forms of fossil fuels except possibly natural gas with a tiny fraction of the subsidies. What do you think will happen once you pull 10 billion a year out from under them?

You're really bad at math

[Anonymous No.10703376]

>>10703271
>Renewables are already competitive with all forms of fossil fuels
Show me the electric transport truck that can make a 1000km journey in 10 hours.

>you're bad at math
Point to the math I've done that makes you reach this conclusion faggot?

>muh carbon cycle
I understand the carbon cycle. It still stands to reason you not being alive would reduce carbon going into the air which would allow me to burn more carbon fuels in your place since it's the same byproducts of combustion. Fossil fuels are literally dead shit that lived long ago so all were doing is returning that carbon to the carbon cycle. Your arguments hold no merit.

[Anonymous No.10703390]

>>10703376
>Show me the electric transport truck that can make a 1000km journey in 10 hours.
Entirely unnecessary with electric trains and better logistics, but here you go

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi

>Point to the math I've done that makes you reach this conclusion faggot?
You don't understand scalar quantities and you can't understand or perform highschool math

>I understand the carbon cycle. It still stands to reason you not being alive would reduce carbon going into the air which would allow me to burn more carbon fuels in your place since it's the same byproducts of combustion.
You are pants-on-head retarded. Biomass is carbon neutral because all of the CO2 released was sequestered from the atmosphere in the first place.

You have no place on a math and science board

[Anonymous No.10703488]

>>10703390
>Biomass is carbon neutral because all of the CO2 released was sequestered from the atmosphere in the first place.
This sentence is likely too complicated for him to understand. So I'll rephrase for him.
>>10703376
It's about how much carbon is coming out of the fucking ground, not about how carbon that is already above ground is cycled.

[Anonymous No.10703496]

>>10703488
Quality post. Also checked

[Anonymous No.10703607]

>>10703029
Right, so China is gaining such a massive control over Africa's natural resources because it threatens African countries with its huge military?

[Anonymous No.10703679]

>>10703390
>>10703488
You guys are most likely talking to a retarded 14 year old suffering form Dunning-Kruger effects in every subject he's ever touched.

[Anonymous No.10704560]

>>10693440
test

[Anonymous No.10704683]

>>10703679
That's cool. Hopefully he learns something

[Anonymous No.10704707]

>>10704560
CLIMATE CHANGE IS A JEWISH CHINESE CONSPIRACY!!!