/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10683166]

>If you aren't passionate about medicine, don't go into it. And if you're just interested in the pay, you can make more money doing other things


Okay, then WHAT the fuck other things are there? I'm serious. I just graduated from my undergraduate university, with a BA in Biology (3.70 GPA). I've been pre-med my entire time, but now I'm not looking forward to the ridiculous hours, the stress, the devoting my entire life to the job...

What are these mythical jobs that can amount to a higher amount of income, other than medicine? I know CS and some IT maybe, but is it too late for me now? (With just a mere BA in Biology)

What the fuck do I even do now? I'm living with my parents for the summer until I figure this out, then i'm fucked

[Anonymous No.10683169]

Pharmacy is 3 years (accelerated) and will allow you to make 100k+ starting. Just go for that. At least you get paid for your extra hours.

[Anonymous No.10683179]

>>10683166

Dentistry. Dentistry is one of those things you honestly can go into for the money. Medicine is a bad idea to go into solely for money because there is so much to the job and obviously patient care will suffer if you're only concerned about making cash which will give you a horrible reputation. But dentistry? Nobody really gives a shit. You can further specialize in oral surgery too. If you were premed the entire time you probably have covered all dental coursework. Study for the DAT now.

[Anonymous No.10683180]

>>10683166
>pharmacy
>law
>CS
>Eng
>Trades ( tradies tend be filled be lower IQ workers so imagine how well a high IQ /sci/entist would do. Ex: big fish in small pond)
>Your own startup or company
>Finance (IB, VC, HF...etc)

[Anonymous No.10683194]

>>10683179
I heard dentistry is going in the gutter with the advent of so many dental corporations. you'd have to be a slave to one of those and you can't have that nice lifestyle. The days of just buying a practice for half a million dollars after already being a half a million dollars in debt is over.

[Anonymous No.10683201]

>>10683166
>Okay, then WHAT the fuck other things are there?

you don't get rich working for someone else. for every VP or Wall Street wizkid making $500k a year there is some pajeet family who owns a couple liquor stores or a two-bit boomer general contractor making about the same.

[Anonymous No.10683262]

>>10683166
hahahahaha get BTFO lousy premed

[Anonymous No.10683276]

>B.S Petroleum Engineer
>$120k starting
>35% salary as annual bonus + raises
>travel the world

Trade off is that it’s competitive as shit and you may spend a good amount of time in the field with rednecks and Mexicans. If you get a comfy office job, then your set.

[Anonymous No.10683286]

>>10683276
bitch i already graduated from undergrad with a biology degree, I can't do another undergrad degree. What's the best, easiest Masters

[Anonymous No.10683332]

>>10683201
How do I make my contracting company?

[Anonymous No.10683337]

>>10683276
>get laid off after 5 years
>no one wants to hire a petro eng for other positionsout of fear that they will leave back to petro once the market picks up
>starve because you spent all your money in thailand

[Anonymous No.10683348]

>>10683166
Not for biology you retard. If you actually become a biologist you will be poor your entire life. I suggest you invest in kneecaps and textbooks and get into med school. Good luck.

[Anonymous No.10683349]

>>10683166
Just go to grad school for cellular/mol bio or biomedical nigga. If you really didn’t take anything that would prepare you for that level of rigor or aren’t up to par academically you should be ashamed

[Anonymous No.10683353]

>>10683332
>get a van
>get some tools
>slap your phone number on the side
>hire some employees once you find a niche

[Anonymous No.10683357]

>>10683349
>cellular/mol
poverty tier
>biomedical
poverty tier

Everyone please stop memeing OP. Unless OP gets his shit together and gets into med school, he'll be poor for his entire life. Don't try to sugar coat it with "alternatives". There are none with comparable wealth to being a doctor. This thread is full of assholes.

[Anonymous No.10683474]

>>10683169
>tfw pharma here is 6 years, has no jobs, and pays about half or even a third of what specialist MDs make

[Anonymous No.10683497]

>>10683166
PA school, 2 years and you have a comfy 6 figure job with way less stress and responsibility than a doctor

[Anonymous No.10683501]

>>10683357
you're a fucking retard

[Anonymous No.10683502]

>>10683166
>biology
>3.7
You will die in med school
>>10683169
Pharmacists are the ultimate wagecucks. Shit working conditions for a doctorate.

[Anonymous No.10683507]

>>10683497
>2 years and you have a comfy 6 figure job with way less stress and responsibility than a doctor

this is why i come to this board. to listen to teens talk utter shit and pretend to be relevant. this comment is the most ill-informed and utterly incorrect answer in this thread. but hey, you tried.

[Anonymous No.10683515]

>>10683501
Molecular/Cellular biologist: starting salary 50k, career peak 100k
POVERTY TIER

Biomedical engineering: starting salary 50k, career peak 100k
POVERTY TIER

>Starting salaries for family medicine were $140,000 to $175,000 in 2012

And that's the lowest paid path in medicine. YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING. OP GET YOUR SHIT TOGETHER GO TO MED SCHOOL OR AT LEAST HAVE THE DECENCY OF KILLING YOURSELF. DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE RETARDS.

[Anonymous No.10683635]

>>10683194

Dude, dentistry = easily raking in 150k at least. With experience 200k is very easy to do. And if you specialize and go into oral and maxillofacial surgery or orthodontics 200k+

[Anonymous No.10683636]

>>10683515

Going into medicine for money is a very bad idea.

>>10683502

>Thinks GPA is a good predictor of performance in medical school.

It's literally all P/F in North America. He would probably get buy just fine like most people do. You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.10683638]

>>10683636

by*

[Anonymous No.10683644]

>>10683636
>Going into medicine for money is a very bad idea.
I know, but if I had made the mistake of studying biology I would bite that bullet because I'd rather be miserable and rich than miserable and poor.

[Anonymous No.10683645]

>>10683636
>It's literally all P/F in North America. He would probably get buy just fine like most people do. You're an idiot.

True, 'cept for dem steps. Predicting the future and all, ya know. KISS and KICK till you're SICK of SEX.

[Anonymous No.10683653]

>>10683644

That's why dentistry exists. So you can be rich and not as miserable. If you're going into medicine for the money you should choose specialties with minimal patient contact such as radiology or pathology. Family medicine would be a disaster.

[Anonymous No.10683660]

>>10683645

If OP is American then all he really has to truly worry about is STEP 1 but even so, scoring below average would not be the end of the world because he's American. If he were an IMG studying abroad and fucked up STEP 1 he would probably not be able to land a residency, but he could still probably find a pathology spot in a less desirable location with a low STEP 1 score. Program directors don't only look at your USMLE scores. Research/life experience and interviewing skills are super important too, but you're right, if your score is so low, they might not give you the time of day to prove yourself.

[Anonymous No.10683665]

>>10683166
Are you seriously this retarded? Senior executives in a corporation make tons of money. Shoulda got yourself an MBA.

[Anonymous No.10683667]

>>10683665

>MBA

lol

[Anonymous No.10684570]

>>10683166
I'm MS1 coming from math undergrad because I don't want to work in the soulless finance industry, you don't need to have a "passion" about medicine, there is no such thing as a pre-existing passion for something anyway, you should lookup Cal Newport (prof. of CS), "Why following your passion is bad advice". Basically, passion is built by becoming an expert at something rare and valuable, since medicine falls into that category, you can build passion in it, it doesn't (and shouldn't) come innately despite what brainlet premeds tell you

[Anonymous No.10685046]

>>10683166
That statement assumes that you didn't do a useless, unemployable degree like BA in biology (jesus dude, not even a BSc?). You're fucked if you want to make physician-level money. You don't have the dick-sucking networking skills and connections to go into the banking industry, nor the raw technical and mathematical skills to do quantitative finance. You're also not an engineer or CS major who can get a decently paying wageslave job with just a bachelor's.

[Anonymous No.10685117]

>>10683169
>>10683474
How hard is it to find employment in the US as a pharmacist with a foreign (European) degree?
I know it's pretty much impossible to practice as a physician in the US if you're a foreigner unless you go through another residency, is pharmacy similarly difficult, or can I land an easy $85k job at CVS without much difficulty?

[Anonymous No.10685131]

>>10683515
please dont come to biology or biomed, we dont want idiots who just want money, we want people who actually are interested in the subject
48k a year post-doc and very happy anon. Money doesnt mean shit past basic necessities. Stop believing in what society has told are you are "necessities"

[Anonymous No.10685166]

>>10683166
Become an international banker, lots of money to make there, no education needed.

[Anonymous No.10685396]

>>10683166
medfag here. Money won't be an issue once you get through medschool and past initial training. the reason people say you need 'passion' is because you gotta be bloody fucking resilient to get through that initial part. Whether you call it 'passion' or 'determination' or 'sheer fucking will' is up to you but know that people who don't have that generally end up dropping out or burning out.

I'm not familiar with what you can do with your degree. Are internships or higher research positions possible? Is it possible to combine your interests in CS with your degree (e.g. computational biology or some other shit)?

'Worst case scenario', do some summer volunteering, get your CV in order and apply to a whole range of med schools

[Anonymous No.10685416]

>>10683166
https://www.youtube.com/user/TheChemlife
embrace this path OP

[Anonymous No.10685457]

>>10683166
>>10685396
>I'm not familiar with what you can do with your degree.
I am. Here are his options
1. lab technician, with extremely little opportunity for growth. Jobs will be monotonous and boring, and you will have 0 intellectual impact on a project
2. go to grad school. Masters will result in the same as option 1, but less opportunity for employment, as they would prefer to hire cheaper students, those who just have a BSc. So really this means get a PhD.
3. Work outside of biology. This is most likely going to happen.
4. Apply for a master''s program outside of biology, a more employable field. Engineering masters for sure, biomedical is a bit memey but if the program is good i would do that.

I woudnt really suggest option 2, as you would already know you want to do that. I am in my PhD right now and just doing this shit to do it doesnt make mental sense. I love what i do and even i want to fucking just stop being here sometimes.

[Anonymous No.10685468]

>>10683169
Which branch of pharmacy is the most well paid, regardless of country? Is it always industry? If so, which specific positions (drug design, production, clinical trials...?)

[Anonymous No.10685477]

>>10685457
Interesting insight anon. I'm debating a phd myself, but it definitely speaks to the difficulty of getting one based on the fact that even interested candidates like yourself are thinking that way. is there a high dropout rate?

[Anonymous No.10685514]

>>10685477
I should clarify. I do not want to dropout, or leave, or abandon this at all. Just the workload and when you get close to deadlines and really have to work for 16+ hours a day, if you do not have that drive based on passionate curiosity for the subject, those demands on you will chip away until you're a burnt out puddle.
The dropout rate is not very high, my program typically gets 5-10 students, generally one drops per year, and it is immediately apparent that they dont belong (usually because they burn out during the fucking rotation phase, the EASIEST part of a biology PhD. After 3 years here there has only been one time I really wanted to leave, and I had other stuff going on in terms of family that was driving that. It wasnt really me burnt out, it was just me feeling like what I was doing here was pointless in the grand scheme of things compared to being with my parents during a tough time.
I would highly suggest it if you're a super curious/passionate person who loves biology research, enjoys wetlab work, and dont mind reading/writing a ton. I fucking love my life overall, i couldnt be happier or see myself anywhere else. I will say i am a part of a very close and fantastic lab though, we often do things outside of lab together, even my PI and me alone. Without that support network/enjoyment of going to work, i would have quit long ago.
my biggest piece of advice to you is the same that was told to me: If you go for a PhD in biology or biochem, the most important thing is your relationship with your PI/lab. If this is good, you will enjoy your time, even if you don't enjoy the work. If this is bad, you'll have a terrible time.

[Anonymous No.10685516]

>>10683507
Then would you kindly illucidate my fate anon?

[Anonymous No.10685539]

>>10685516
the fact you used the word elucidate misspelled only speaks further that you are an undergrad desu.

[Anonymous No.10685543]

>>10685117
Depends on the state.

[Anonymous No.10685548]

>>10685416
>channel’s about page mentions biohacking right off the bat
This is an instant red flag you mong.

[Anonymous No.10685559]

>>10685543
Specifically, places like Florida, Texas, California, Nevada...?

[Anonymous No.10685642]

>>10685539
Figured that was obvious, along with the fact that I'm not going for a degree in writing

[Anonymous No.10685656]

>>10683169
Pharmacy is a dead field. Pharmacists will be almost solely MTM consultants in a few years after PBMs kill off retail pharmacy and hospital positions become nearly impossible to get without being per diem

[Anonymous No.10685730]

>>10685656
What about industry?

[Anonymous No.10685738]

>>10685730
Does industry even seek out PharmDs? I'm sure they can land a job, but when you factor job mobility it really limits your possibilities whereas MDs can go literally anywhere for work (that goes for most healthcare workers). From what I understand, PharmDs are trained to be much more clinically inclined and don't bother learning the semantics of the pharma industry, but I could be wrong.

[Anonymous No.10685765]

>>10685738
What? Why would PharmDs have any trouble working in the pharmaceutical industry? I don't know how it works in the US, but in most European countries, you choose to specialize in industrial pharmacy and usually get an MS in something like synthetic/orgo chem alongside the PharmD.
Are you telling me that in the US, MDs (I assume with a subspec in clinical pharm at least) have an easier time working in pharma than actual pharmacists?

[Anonymous No.10685783]

>>10685765
>Why would PharmDs have any trouble working in the pharmaceutical industry?
Most PharmDs in the US don't go for any further specialization during their degree because most of them intend on working in the clinical setting. If you want to work in industry, most just get an MS/PhD instead. That's not to say you CAN'T necessarily, but your PharmD prepares you primarily for clinical training (at least in the US). All the pharmacy schools I've seen around here don't really focus on placing graduates into industry, many are trying to shill hospital "residency" which is also retarded and it just feels like pharmacy schools grasping at straws in an attempt to find a purpose for their shitty professional degree.

[Anonymous No.10685801]

>>10683166

That's a load of horsecrap. Unless you're an engineer there's no safer career path you can take to comfy income for a comfy life than medicine. Just take the damn MCAT and apply. Trust me after being in biotech making shit money for 4 years getting into med school was the best decision of my fucking life. Just make sure you're mentally prepared to work your ass off, organize your time, and if you don't have enough willpower to focus and shit make sure you have some stims ready (Moda Addy caffeine juul) and know how to use them so you fucking ace the step 1 and live comfy forever

[Anonymous No.10685808]

>>10683166
Please don't become a doctor! Thank you!

:)

[Anonymous No.10685822]

>>10685801

Oh and just to follow up with this don't apply to IMGs and avoid going to DO schools. I almost fell for the basically-a-carribean school DO school meme (not all DO schools are like this mind you but primary care mills like WVCOM, Liberty aka TrumpU and LMU-DCOM are exactly this) and regret to this fucking day not studying harder in undergrad so I can get into an MD school. Sure I got into a DO school with lower primary care graduates than average but FUCK being a DO man

[Anonymous No.10685848]

>>10685822
On a scale of 1 - 10 how bullshit is OMT lol

seriously though, you still got into med school. you'll make it fren

[Anonymous No.10685853]

>>10683166
>What are these mythical jobs that can amount to a higher amount of income, other than medicine?


This question is particularly interesting when one considers that the United States is already home to more than 700,000 U.S. physicians, all with doctorates from medical school, in the country's medical workforce, but with a combined U.S. GDP of $18.643 trillion, or $5,976,074 for every man, woman and child.

[Anonymous No.10685859]

>>10685848

9, I imagine it's like going to LLU or Emory as an atheist but worse.

[Anonymous No.10685862]

>>10683166
Law school. Your undergrad doesn't matter and your GPA is good enough for the top tier schools assuming you do even halfway decently on the LSAT.
First year associates are major market law firms make 160k+ starting. Most in NYC are paying 190k starting.

[Anonymous No.10685891]

>>10685862
Law school is expensive, even working a high paying internship over the summers still leaves you with a ton of debt.

[Anonymous No.10685910]

>>10685891
>Law school is expensive
And medical school isn't? Dental school, pharmacy school, business school and others aren't?
Grad school in general is a scam, but unfortunately sometimes it's a necessary scam.

[Anonymous No.10685921]

>medicine
Which specialties have the best balance of good salary, good working hours, not too much patient bullshit and actually interesting work?

[Anonymous No.10685929]

>>10685117
I didn't know that Muslims used actuall medicine

[Anonymous No.10686180]

>>10685822

Not American (Canadian) but I find myself in this dilemma. Getting into a Canadian MD school is twice as hard as getting into an American MD school (due to limited numbers, less schools, high amount of applicants, etc). Been considering the IMG route. Not the Caribbean but Australia (University of Sydney and University of Wollongong). Both are MD programs, and I'd ideally like to match in the USA for psyc. Is that possible? What would be the best way to prepare for STEP 1?

[Anonymous No.10686480]

>>10683166
from my knowledge (admittedly, quite limited), being a doctor is one of the most blackpilling experiences possible.

>Daily face to face interaction with the grim reaper, and the inexorable ravages of time upon the flesh.

[Anonymous No.10686624]

>>10683357
He's already not getting into medschool, that is off the table... 3.7gpa...

[Anonymous No.10686626]

>>10683515
50k isn't poverty...

[Anonymous No.10686631]

>>10685910
You don't pay for grad school, it's like working a shit paying job but you do something you actually care about (if you're not, then don't do it). Law school is fine and dandy until you don't get a job because lawyers don't get jobs anymore

[Anonymous No.10687231]

>>10686624
That’s the average GPA for accepted students retard

[Anonymous No.10687363]

>>10686624

You're not too bright are you?

[Anonymous No.10687959]

>>10684570
What did you write on your essay?

[Anonymous No.10688705]

>>10683166
Nursing --> NP/CRNA
Rock that inferiority complex 'till the day you die

>>10686180
Queensland homie,
I'm doing the UQ-Ochsner program and I know that internationals can apply for US rotations. You could get psych experience there

>inb4 it's expensive
never in it for the money

[Anonymous No.10689542]

>>10683166
>What are these mythical jobs that can amount to a higher amount of income, other than medicine?

Literally nothing. The average family doc at my dads clinic makes 350-400k a year while the specialists make 600-800k a year, and many of them went to low ranked schools for undergrad. Unless you go to a top top tier school like MIT for a degree in CS and get a premium job at Google you can't expect to make even close to that salary.

[Anonymous No.10689604]

>>10689542
>The average family doc at my dads clinic makes 350-400k a year while the specialists make 600-800k
How the fuck? Where do you live?
This is not representative of the US in general, is it?

[Anonymous No.10689634]

>>10688705

Thanks. I have so many questions to ask you because I was actually just looking at Queensland/UQ-Oschner. Oschner requires people to have US citizenship or permanent residency I think but I'd probably just go to the regular program. But my questions are....

1) Financing. How do you make this work? It's like 300k CAD and that's not including living expenses. I'd probably have to put up all my savings, ask my parents for some support + take loans.


2). Stats to get in? My cGPA is in the 3.6 range, MCAT will probably be between 505-510 I'm guessing. Is this good enough?

3) Do you have any classmates that didn't major in a STEM field? I studied psychology and humanities. Didn't really take organic chem, physics, or biochem. Would this mean I'm fucked if I wanted to write the USMLE's or generally get through med school? I've noticed that a lot of Australian med schools besides like University of Melbourne, don't have per-requisites.

4) How do you like living in Australia?

5) Are you familiar at all with the internship/process of getting a primary care residency in Australia? Is it feasible to come to Canada or the USA after doing residency in Australia or would you have to redo everything?

Thanks for your help and time if you're still around. These are pressing questions I've always wondered but haven't been able to find anyone to ask.

[Anonymous No.10689638]

>>10683166
haha, lole
fuck you

[Anonymous No.10689649]

>>10685801
As a former software engineer and current doctor, I mostly disagree. I like medicine and have no desire to quit, but nothing about it is comfy. Maybe life is easy if you're a dermatologist, but any remotely interesting specialty also involves high stress, long hours, high stakes, copious government-mandated idiocy, and never-ending professional development and MOC. That's after you get through the extreme workload and stress of med school, the absurdity of having your entire future more or less dependent on the outcome of a single test, the ridiculous scam that is the match, a residency that's barely better than indentured servitude, then six figures of student loan debt to pay off once you're finally done. If you want to practice medicine, there's no substitute. But engineering beats it hands down for quality of life, difficulty and length of training, stress, hours, flexibility, and the sheer amount of complete bullshit you have to put up with. I would never, ever advise anyone to go to med school unless they were sure there's nothing else they want to do.

[Anonymous No.10689665]

>>10689604
No, he's talking out his ass. Primary care salaries are usually in the 150-250k range. Major cities tend to be at the lower end of they pay scale. The less desirable the location, the more they have to pay to attract doctors. Specialties make more, but most are in the 250-350k range. Only a few break $500k, mostly ultra-competitive surgical subspecialties.

[Anonymous No.10689707]

>>10683166
Look into material science that's the shit

[Anonymous No.10689713]

>>10689649
that's very interesting because I'm considering the same path. You worked as a SE, probably making good money, and decided on another path. In retrospect was it the right decision for you? Was it worth the opportunity cost? Are you thinking about retiring?

[Anonymous No.10689769]

>>10689649
You changed from SE to medicine. Any reason for that?

[Anonymous No.10689775]

>>10685738
I've seen someone enter a pharmaceutical company as a research associate at the same level as a Master's as a PharmD. Not sure why they did it though. Maybe just because the benefits were good? Their degree was from Korea.

[Anonymous No.10690021]

>>10689665
>surgical subspecialties.
Excluding orthopedics, the highest paid specs (radiology, dermatology, anesthesiology) are not surgical.

[Anonymous No.10690817]

>>10689634
>Financing
No idea how the Canadians finance it, sorry, federal loans for me and a realization that I'd have to live like a resident till 33 to be in the clear.
>Stats
You're fine with those numbers if you apply early.
>Pre-reqs.
Fucking hated orgo but it was useful and ugrd biochem is broader in scope than med school biochem which is narrower in scope but much much more detailed. Out of the pre-recs I'd recommend to take a thorough biochem (or two) course, cell biology/biochem, and an introductory physiology (not A&P that's weak shit) to be safe. If you're missing those classes, double check to see if you'd still be ok with admissions iirc a there are new required courses in the near future.
>How's it down under?
Everything is nearby, public transport in Brisbane is nice, the school is truly international in the sense that there's students from all over the world. It's cool, reminds me of the early physician that studied in Eddinburg to then practice in England and the US docs that went to learn Germany/France and practice in the states. Love being able consider myself as continuing that tradition.
>Internship process
It's tough for foreign grads to match into Australia given the surplus of docs the country has, but you can have luck depending how much you network, how well you do in school and how willing you are to serve as a rural physician. The UQ-Ochsner program has mid-90% match rate and it's meant to have grads match after graduating. Idk why you'd contemplate Aus residency then going back to North America, but assuming you crush your steps, have rec letters and rotate in your desired country for at least a year, I mean sure, you could match but at this point you'd be demoting yourself.

Anytime anon. Best of luck.

[Anonymous No.10691049]

is psychology comfy tier?

[Anonymous No.10691121]

>>10690817

Thank you a lot dude. Duly noted and will take those courses you mentioned. Fingers crossed I get accepted in Canada but Australia seems like an appealing back up plan. Good luck!

[Anonymous No.10691124]

>>10691049

It is. Usually a PhD in clinical psyc will get you a very stable job but grad school/research is not for me. I'm more geared towards psychiatry.

[Anonymous No.10691535]

>>10683515
Legit Biomedical, starting salary 100k, just not many jobs/oversaturated w/ applicants.

Being a MD beats any enginering, hands down. Dont shoot your credibility in the foot by exaggerating/trolling if you actually care about giving good advice to OP

t.biomed engineer

[Anonymous No.10691570]

>>10691535
To clarify, beats engineering in term of annual income

[Anonymous No.10691799]

>>10689713
>In retrospect was it the right decision for you?
Yes
>Was it worth the opportunity cost?
Depends on what you mean. Financially no. I had an excellent job at a top-tier company. If you factor in the cost of med school and the 7 years of lost salary, I would have been better off staying in my old job. But in the sense that it was the price I had to pay to do what I wanted to do with my life, then yes.
>Are you thinking about retiring?
No

>>10689769
I was never interested in software to begin with, I just got into it because it's relatively easy and pays very well. I decided that's not how I want to spend the rest of my life.

>>10691570
Good to clarify that, because if you factor in hours worked, duration and cost of education, and overall quality of life, the MD advantage is not so clear. Plus, if the Democrats ever succeed in implementing one of their hare-brained universal health insurance schemes, MD salaries might drop like a rock.

[Anonymous No.10691823]

>>10691799

Lol @ Americans afraid of universal healthcare. Don't want to join the rest of the civilized world huh?

[Anonymous No.10692259]

>>10691124
>tfw interested in psychiatric research but I'm not a very warm or charismatic person so a psych residency would probably fuck my shit up

[Anonymous No.10692878]

>>10683166
Business was the way to go.

That being said, if you aren't retarded like most medical students, you can get a residency in something amazing like radiology.

[Anonymous No.10692883]

>>10691823
No because our citizens are too fucking retarded. They eat shit and expect everyone else to take care of them. It simply would not work here. 1/3 of the population is morbidly obese and diabetes is skyrocketing.

[Anonymous No.10693221]

>>10692878
Don't know why everyone memes radiology. Dermatology, ophthalmology, urology, cardiology and hematology and oncology are all better.

[Anonymous No.10693254]

>>10683166
Be a welder

[Anonymous No.10693259]

>>10693221
They meme radiology because they get paid a stupid amount and only need a 2 year diploma.

[Anonymous No.10693263]

>>10693259
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Rad techs need that diploma, not radiologists, and they're not anywhere near the level of income an MD has.

[Anonymous No.10693281]

>>10693263
Guess what, they still make a ton of cash dipshit. Get mad about it.

[Anonymous No.10693287]

>>10693281
>70k is a lot of cash
As I said, nothing compared to an actual MD in radiology which makes three to six times as much. Also, the guy I originally responded to mentioned residency which implies a medical degree, not a fucking two year diploma, so learn to read, retard.

[Anonymous No.10693288]

>>10686631
>You don't pay for grad school
wat

[Anonymous No.10693296]

>>10683166
>What are these mythical jobs that can amount to a higher amount of income, other than medicine?

Try to work in finance or go for a PhD. You have no other options - a B.A. in biology won't get you paid more than a medical doctor.

[Anonymous No.10693307]

>>10685514
Any more advice for an aspiring Bio PhD student anon?

[Anonymous No.10693316]

>>10693221
>Dermatology
Problem is that it's incredibly competitive for an incredibly small number of spots.
>Urology
Is a shitty lifestyle. You finger dudes buttholes all day and get called at night constantly for people with kidney stones, then when you do lithotripsy you have to sit there and listen to this loud as banging for two hours in an OR. And when you aren't doing that you are shoving things inside dicks and shaving their prostate out.
>Hematology and oncology
Do you really want to give poison to dying people every day because they want to live a miserable extra 3 months with cancer?
>Ophthamology and cardiology
Not bad choices, but cardiology requires 3 years of internal medicine to specialize. The pay is roughly the same +/- 50k/year depending on where you work.

The beauty of radiology is that there are plenty of spots and patient encounters are limited, mostly to quick procedures such as lumbar punctures, organ biopsys, or joint injections and the residents typically do those.

Radiology is also pretty much shift work, 9-5 and then you leave, if you are on call you read specific emergency studies over night, assuming your hospital doesn't have nighthawks that read over night.

Then of course there are niche specialties, like neurointerventional radiologists who go in and pull clots out or bust them directly and their salaries can be over a million.

[Anonymous No.10693317]

>>10693287
Learn to calm down, this is the internet you don't need to be a big baby. If you're so intelligent why do you let yourself get upset over things that don't matter?

[Anonymous No.10693345]

>>10693316
>incredibly competitive
Rad is as well.
>shitty lifestyle
Honestly from what I've seen uro is one of the least terrible surgical specialties when it comes to work-life balance. Plus it's one of the few specs where you can choose to do exclusively clinical consults and not surgery.
Also you get used to dicks.
>give poison to dying people
Sure, it can be emotionally draining, but it's very interesting, has lots of research opportunities and the pay is extremely good. Also you're not on call.
>3 years of internal medicine
Right that's how it works in the US. Still a very good spec though. Cards make much more than IM though, where did you get that data?
I also forgot to mention ENT, anesthesiology and GE.

>>10693317
>say some retarded shit
>get called out on it
>"uh learn to calm down dude"
Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10693351]

>>10693345
Lol you're so upset, I can't believe you're knowledgeable in the least. You're way too impatient to be any sort of medical professional. You act like an upset child.

t. First year faggot

[Anonymous No.10693355]

>>10693316
Oh by the way interventional rads get regular radiation exposure unlike diagnostic rads, so that's something to take into account.

[Anonymous No.10693364]

>>10693351
>"you're impatient because you hurt my feelings on 4chan"
Jesus christ what a whiny pussy. Don't go into medicine for your own sake.
>t. First year faggot
Yeah, I figured.

[Anonymous No.10693382]

>>10693345
>Rad is as well.
It is indeed but derm has about 1/3 of the residency spots that rads has. Derm is also a hard speciality to get a clinical rotation/audition in because there aren't as many dermatologists as radiologists.
>>10693345
>Honestly from what I've seen uro is one of the least terrible surgical specialties when it comes to work-life balance. Plus it's one of the few specs where you can choose to do exclusively clinical consults and not surgery.
>Also you get used to dicks.
It isn't as bad as other surgeries sure, but it is still surgery and I didn't care for it. It's interesting as all hell, but it isn't my cup of tea.
>Sure, it can be emotionally draining, but it's very interesting, has lots of research opportunities and the pay is extremely good. Also you're not on call.
The pay is only slightly higher than radiology though. I personally would not want to work with dying people for the rest of my life, but that's just me. The research is incredibly interesting though with all of the immunotherapies they are coming out with.
>Right that's how it works in the US. Still a very good spec though. Cards make much more than IM though, where did you get that data?
Sorry, meant that cards is +/-50k from radiology depending of location. It's a great specialty but it's a lot of patients too.
>ENT, anesthesiology and GE.
ENT has even fewer spots than dermatology.
Anesthesia is a great specialty indeed, but it does occasionally involve people needing emergency treatment, plus the general surgeons are often pains in the asses.
GE was alright, but the days were also pretty long because there are usually a lot of scopes and a decent number of patients to round on. Lots of buttholes.

Most medicine specialties really aren't bad for lifestyle. Regardless of what you choose, you will be in the top 1% of earners. Ultimately it should be something you re passionate about. Fortunately, I really, really enjoy radiology. It just so happens that it pays well too.

[Anonymous No.10693384]

>>10693364
You sure are pal, you're literally describing yourself. I imagine you're gritting your teeth slapping those fat sausage fingers against the keyboard in a rage. THIS GUY ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG! REEEE!

[Anonymous No.10693386]

>>10693355
>Oh by the way interventional rads get regular radiation exposure unlike diagnostic rads, so that's something to take into account.
True and in the prior decades cancer rates have been higher in radiologists in general, but I believe that the rates have pretty much equalized because of the consistent use of shielding. There are way too many people who don't use lead glasses though.

[Anonymous No.10693390]

>>10693307
Nothing specific, I cant really think without prompts right now, I am putting together a presentation. If you ask me questions I will answer them in depth, I'll check back every 30 minutes or so.
Best thing you can do to prepare yourself is do an REU program, as soon as possible. Get over the normal schedule of school asap, research doesnt work like that, I come in on weekends all the time (like now), holidays dont really have meaning for me, and some work *has* to be done at certain times, say tuesday at 2:30 am. try to work during the summer doing research if possible, that will expose you to the schedule of research well.

[Anonymous No.10693406]

>>10693382
True, derm is very competitive. But if you can get in, it's one of the most pleasant specialties in my opinion. There's also psych but you need to have the mind for it.
>it is still surgery
Yeah the only surg spec that is truly easy on you is opthalmology.
>I personally would not want to work with dying people
I'm guessing it's hard to get used to, but there's also a certain amount of pride and satisfaction you get from treating patients successfully.
>it's a lot of patients too
Do you dislike patient interaction? If that's a factor then yeah, there are few specialties that offer a high salary, interesting work and good hours. Rad is the only one that comes to mind, actually.
>ENT has even fewer spots
I didn't know that. Why is that?
>Most medicine specialties aren't bad for lifestyle
The entirety of surgery aside from ophto and uro are terrible (and plastic in certain circumstances). Other than that I think neuro, peds and nephro can get very stressful with heavy hours.
>>10693386
I think rads and interventional cards are the only specs that incorporate an actual health risk (not counting being a surgeon and pulverizing your back and dying from stress and shitty life choices in your fifties)
Interventional rad is great though, lots of advances and tech improvements currently. Do you want to do diagnostic or interventional?

[Anonymous No.10693442]

>>10693406
>Do you dislike patient interaction?
Not a lot, but some days I just don't want to deal with them. Radiology gives me the option to have as much as I choose.
>I didn't know that. Why is that?
IIRC the government allots money for residency spots, so they must think there isn't a need for more or the hospitals don't want to chase the opportunity.
>The entirety of surgery aside from ophto and uro are terrible (and plastic in certain circumstances). Other than that I think neuro, peds and nephro can get very stressful with heavy hours.
I honestly only truly hated general surgery. I didn't care for the other surgeries because there is a lot of time you don't get to spend with your family. But general surgery is just god awful. OB/GYN is pretty terrible too.
>Interventional rad is great though, lots of advances and tech improvements currently. Do you want to do diagnostic or interventional?
I am going into my intern year in July so I haven't really decided yet. I matched into diagnostic because I didn't like doing procedures all day but there are so many ways to get into interventional that it doesn't really matter to me, if I end up enjoying it ill find a way in.
If I do do interventional it will likely be neuro just because it has such a huge impact on someones life.

[Anonymous No.10693457]

>>10693442
>I honestly only truly hated general surgery
What was it about it that you disliked so much?
>I matched into diagnostic
It's pretty cozy. Whatever it is you end up choosing I wish you the best of luck anon.

[Anonymous No.10693463]

>>10683166
Get an MBA and go into manufacturing and research

[Anonymous No.10693473]

>>10693457
>What was it about it that you disliked so much?
The residents. They were miserable pieces of shit who hated their lives and had to take their hatred out on medical students. They chose a shitty career then got pissed off about it and decided everyone should suffer.
I know not all gen surg is that bad, but these guys were just terrible and made me hate surgery in general.
>>10693457
>Whatever it is you end up choosing I wish you the best of luck anon.
Thanks bro, what are you in by the way?

[Anonymous No.10693487]

>>10693473
>The residents
Figured as much. Surgeons are hard to deal with.
>what are you in
I'll be choosing a spec next year (eurofag) and given my grades and interests I'm strongly considering derm.

[Anonymous No.10693814]

>>10686631
Professional schools does not work like grad school in the sciences. There is generally no funding available, tuition is considerably more expensive, and the workload does not allow for paid side gigs. Everyone is on student loans unless they happen to be independently wealthy.

>>10693259
>>10693281
>>10693317
Holy shit, imagine being this retarded.

[Anonymous No.10693924]

my sister has to decide between pharmacy, dentistry and generalist

I know that it's not an easy decision, but I want to know what's the best for someone who:
(i)is not very strong emotionally, and is sensitive but also above average of intelligence
(ii)wants to become a cardiologist
(iii)wants a decent pay but isn't obsessed with money
(iv)would like to have the potential to go work abroad (in Europe)
(v)doesn't want a risky job, where mistakes will cost her a lot (emotionally and judicially)

[Anonymous No.10693927]

>>10693924
i suggested dentistry and pharma to her, but I'm not a medfag (I studied mathematics) so I have no say in this

[Anonymous No.10695222]

>>10683353
How do I start my company based on a niche product that I create through additive manufacturing?

[Anonymous No.10695490]

>>10683276
>>B.S Petroleum Engineer
What if I'm shit at maths and engineering?

[Anonymous No.10696634]

>>10689649
Fucking wisdom, here.

[Anonymous No.10697770]

>>10689649
>I would never, ever advise anyone to go to med school unless they were sure there's nothing else they want to do.
and how did you know this before going through it? plus there's lots of people who, once they get in, realize it's not really for them but they're a few hunderd grand in debt so power through it

[Anonymous No.10697839]

>>10689649
You're being dramatic, there are lots of "comfy" specialties.

[Anonymous No.10697953]

>>10683497
PA school will cost you 2/3rds what med school does for 1/3rd the pay. You're a fucking cuck if you're willing to spend >$60k per year for a job that starts in the 80s if you're lucky.

That said, medicine in general is a sinking ship, at least in the US, and you can bet that even as a physician, in the course of your career you're going to see your salary obliterated by either Medicare For All, increasingly oligarchical insurance companies, or some hellish combination of the two, and unless you went to a top-tier med school/residency, good luck getting a job in concierge care.

[Anonymous No.10697965]

>>10689649
This guy gets it. Medicine certainly isn't what it used to be, and hours, patient volumes, and tuition costs are going up while pay is staying stagnant and your patients are getting actively shittier thanks to the ACA and the opioid/obesity epidemics. On top of that, thanks to the rise of EMRs and shit like meaningful use, etc, you'll now be spending more time than ever doing mindless charting. You still make good money, but you're working harder and harder for it, and the writing on the wall is that we'll see Europe-tier physician pay in the US within the next decade or two, with fuck all to account for the insane cost of medical school here. Not unionizing was probably the single stupidest thing that physicians ever did.

[Anonymous No.10698000]

>>10697953
Medicare for all isn’t gonna happen any time within the next couple decades. The AMA won’t let it happen

[Anonymous No.10698008]

>>10698000
>The AMA
>Having any political power whatsoever

The AMA can't even get residency slots funded or get the government to actually pay back tuition reimbursement, how the hell is it supposed to be able to keep Medicare For All from happening, especially since so many young docs are indoctrinated true believers who would be 100% for it?

[Anonymous No.10698028]

>phd in math
>300k starting
>any job I want

[Anonymous No.10698162]

>>10698008
Why would physicians need tuition reimbursement? Most of us make over 200k a year and there are ways to avoid paying it back like being in a rural underserved area, paying on an income based repayment plan and working at a nonprofit for 10 years, simply paying your monthly payments for 20 years, etc.

Residency slots probably aren’t even wanted by the AMA, it keeps doctor salaries high and ensures that they are an important and finite resource

Don’t underestimate the lobbying power of money, it won’t happen.

[Anonymous No.10698223]

>>10697953
Is it actually better nowadays to practice medicine in a country with socialized healthcare? Especially since a lot of euro med schools are free?

[Anonymous No.10698302]

>>10698223
It absolutely is in terms of patient workload (compared to >70% of American docs) and hours worked per week, but it absolutely is not in terms of what they pay you (unless you work in private practice). The low pay isn't a big deal there since med school is essentially free over there, but try telling some orthopedic surgeon stateside that he's now making under $150k/year while he's looking at his $500k in student debt.

Also, in most European countries, the generalists like PCPs, family medicine, and internal medicine all get paid the most, because good primary care knows everything about everything and can save the system shitloads of money, while the specialists get paid shit because specialists only need to know about their specialty and even in the best of cases represent a net loss to the system in terms of money paid vs outcomes.

[Anonymous No.10698304]

>>10698028
is it more than one person posting this shit over and over?
I think it's just one person
he must be deeply insecure

[Anonymous No.10698368]

>>10698302
>specialists get paid shit
That's not true, though. Specialist salaries are consistently above GP salaries in almost every western European country.
Even in private practice though, salaries are still lower than in the US. Top earners in medicine in western Europe bring in around 300-400k, while American physicians can break 600-700k without even being statistical outliers.

[Anonymous No.10698392]

>>10698368
And don't forget how hard they get fucked on the tax front, too. That doc getting paid $400k in Germany is lucky if they take $200k of it home.

[Anonymous No.10698414]

>>10698392
They can just go work in Switzerland or another country with lower taxes, it's not like the entirety of Europe is a pinko hellhole.
And no matter the country, doctors are still among the top earning professions anyway.

[Anonymous No.10698429]

Ι am into PT and even though I love my school and the subject, I find neurology and biochemistry more interesting. I kinda regret it

[Anonymous No.10698654]

>>10698414
>Just move to Switzerland, bro

Is that the "just get into concierge care" for the europoors?

[Anonymous No.10698711]

>>10698654
>>Just move to Switzerland, bro
It's not that hard to get a job there if you're a Belgian, French or German national.

[Anonymous No.10698727]

>>10683166
There's no such thing as high pay and low stress for people in your strata.

[Anonymous No.10698734]

>>10683332
Go to town hall and register your business. Put your ads online, try to get some maintenance deals with local businesses.

[Anonymous No.10698746]

>>10695222
If you're asking for advice on how to start your business on 4chan you're fucking up. It seems like you've never worked before so I'll give you some advice. None of these people are going to hand you anything and all their advice is speculation anyway. Additive manufacturing sounds great, but what have you actually done? Have you built any prototypes? You need to put the money forward and start making shit in your mom's basement and selling it in Etsy. Then expand from there. But my advice is worth what you paid for it.

[Anonymous No.10698764]

>>10698727
>for people in your strata
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.10698848]

>>10693287
>70k is not a lot of cash
imagine living in some wage slave state like california
lmao

[Anonymous No.10699254]

>>10698304
This is a really old and stale meme

[Anonymous No.10699922]

>>10683502
i got into pharmacy school with my 2.7 GPA biology focus. I am not ranked 28 out of 80 with a GPA of 3.5. No, undergraduate work did not reflect my pharmacy work.

[Anonymous No.10699924]

>>10683166
You nigger 99% of doctors aren't passionate about medicine but do it for the paycheck, prestige, power, respect. Those are as good as any. Its not like your average doctor is some inspired Salk figure curing children against all ods and shit. Stfu and go to med school you normie fuck.

[Anonymous No.10699928]

>>10693924
>>10693924
Either internal medicine/primary care
or
dentistry.

honestly cardiology is pretty chill too, all the risky shit is for surgeons (and the real gangsta pay).

[Anonymous No.10699975]

>>10699922
why'd you grade so low in uni

[Anonymous No.10700032]

>>10698711
You must not have any friends or family

[Anonymous No.10700179]

>>10699928
>all the risky shit is for surgeons (and the real gangsta pay).

Most surgeons barely make more than medicine specialties. The ones that make a lot of money are Ortho and neurosurgeons.

[Anonymous No.10700204]

>>10698008
>since so many young docs are indoctrinated true believers
You mean so many young pre-med students. Unless they're going to school on daddy's money, they'll drop that shit the moment they see their first student loan bill.

>>10698162
>ways to avoid paying it back like being in a rural underserved area, paying on an income based repayment plan and working at a nonprofit for 10 years
That's what he meant by reimbursement. If you look into those programs, you'll find that very few people have every managed to meet all the requirements and collect anything because the government has designed them to be nigh-on impossible.

>Residency slots probably aren’t even wanted by the AMA, it keeps doctor salaries high and ensures that they are an important and finite resource
That's clearly the case. The AMA openly lobbied to cap residency slots before they suddenly reversed course and started screaming about the physician shortage a few years ago. They may have overplayed their hand though, since now everyone is looking to replace as many MDs as possible with PAs, NPs, and other bullshit "providers" because they're so much cheaper.

[Anonymous No.10700207]

>>10698848
Imagine being so poor you think $70k is a lot of money anywhere.