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/sci/ - Science & Math

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10682847 No.10682847 [Reply] [Original]

Why do pilot whales not have speech or a higher consciousness than humans when they have over twice the neocortical neurons?
As according to the following, neurons are the true measurement of cognitive superiority:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=21535005

>> No.10682873

>>10682847
>Why do pilot whales not have speech or a higher consciousness
Why do you assume they don't?

>> No.10682883

>>10682847
Define consciousness

>> No.10682892

>>10682847
Who knows what the fuck all those neocortical neurons are doing?

>> No.10682933

>>10682883
The ability to distinguish what you perceive subjectively versus what is reality.

>> No.10682945

>>10682873
If they did they'd be doing a lot more than just acting like a regular non-human animal in the ocean.

>> No.10682965

>>10682945
they could be doing the highest level maths in the world, but have no impetus or drive to apply it to any sort of society or something.

>> No.10683129
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10683129

>>10682933
I'm an OED man myself. Why do brainlets constantly bastardize the English language?

"Subjective" is not a term that can be attributed to an experience, in that it would distinguish it from reality. It is an adjective that characterizes a decision as being influenced by biased judgement.

It's pretty annoying that there are 100 consciousness/spirit/subjective/qualia/retard posters on /sci/.

>> No.10683191

>>10683129
A word can have more than 1 meaning. What I mean by "perceive subjectively" is that only the subject perceives something as true, which is different from reality, like someone seeing a light in the sky and thinking it's an alien spacecraft when it's actually an airplane.

>> No.10683204
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10683204

>>10683191
Brainlet

>> No.10683211

>>10683191
In other words, you like to define words only in ways that support your initial arguments? Your worldview must be solipsistic as fuck.

>> No.10683230

>>10683211
It's actually a common definition of the word. And what's my argument? I only asked a question about pilot whales, and that's not arguing anything. Do you think all words have 1 standard definition created by a committee?

>> No.10683236

>>10683230
Your initial question automatically assumes that pilot whales don't have speech or higher cognition simply because humans haven't observed it.

>> No.10683254

>>10682847
>Speech

They literally communicate with complex sounds.

>Higher consciousness

What does that even mean?

>>10682945
Why? All we did for a million years was toss spears and eat grubs.

>> No.10683256
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10683256

>>10683230
A proposition used to make a conclusion is an argument, so your statement that they don't have "higher consciousness" lol like humans kek is an argument. Jesus fuck read a dictionary. God damn brainlets get off my board REEEEEEEE

>> No.10683261

>>10683236
How does the definition I used make me solipsistic?

>> No.10683291

>>10683254
>complex sounds
Nonhuman animal songs of learned responses for survival isn't nearly as complex as human language.
>What does this even mean?
A greater awareness of reality.

>>10683256
I never said humans don't have a higher consciousness.

>> No.10683314

>>10683291
>Nonhuman animal songs of learned responses for survival isn't nearly as complex as human language.

And? Complexity is a disadvantage.

>A greater awareness of reality.

Meaningless. Humans aren’t any more “aware” of reality than a bug.

>> No.10683320

>>10683314
How is having a complex language disadvantaging us over simple grunts?

How is something like object permanence not being more aware of reality?

>> No.10683362

>>10683320
>How is having a complex language disadvantaging us over simple grunts?

It’d be more advantageous to have a simpler language that is easier to master and use than an unnecessarily complex one. We do not benefit at all from having thirty synonyms for one word nor do we benefit from silent letters.
Pilot whale vocalizations are exceptionally complex for the animal kingdom and do their job perfectly fine.
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00170896

>How is something like object permanence not being more aware of reality?

Cetaceans have object permanence, and lacking it only means you lack object permanence. Doesn’t make you less “aware”.

>> No.10685728

>>10682945
Why's that? They don't have the body to make tools or build civilizations. And we still don't know what cetaceans are saying to each other. But we have observed dolphins to have names for themselves and each other.

>> No.10685737

>>10682847
Different environmental requirements, and they do have speech. You simply can't comprehend simple Globicephalese.

>> No.10686682

>cognitive superiority
>objective measurement
nah

>> No.10686761

>>10682847
These types of sea animals are able to map out huge areas in high detail using sonar. The level of perception of these creature is beyond your ability to imagine. What makes you superior? Because you can put a pointy stick in the whale?