/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10656513]

Why is it impossible to have a legitimate discussion on the racial intelligence gap?

[Anonymous No.10656518]

>>10656513
Because it falls under social "science", which is really just a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals shouting at each other with less than 50% replicability in studies, terrible metrics, and a total failure to formulate even basic theories beyond a brainlet application of statistical methods.

[Anonymous No.10656525]

>>10656518
Can you attack the methodologies of the minnesota transracial adoption study?
I'd be glad to see where it is wrong.

[Anonymous No.10656526]

>>10656513
Because of Hitler.
Otherwise we would be able to talk about it without any issues.

[Anonymous No.10656531]

>>10656525
>130 children, the kind of sample size that a legitimate scientist would call "A hot, steaming turd"

>1976 and 1992, substantially more racist years than the current decade

>Claims to relate to genetic factors, has done literally nothing to diminish non-genetic factors outside the home

[Anonymous No.10656537]

>>10656531
>>130 children, the kind of sample size that a legitimate scientist would call "A hot, steaming turd"
Why?
>1976 and 1992, substantially more racist years than the current decade
What does that have to do with anything?
>Claims to relate to genetic factors, has done literally nothing to diminish non-genetic factors outside the home
Wot? If it's genetic why would they care about other stuff?

[Anonymous No.10656538]

>>10656525
Irrelevant sample size invalidates any conclusion. Terrible methodology. Awful statistical analysis. Retarded focus on a tiny amount of causal factors.

It's such a bad study only someone on /sci/ would post it as believable.

[Anonymous No.10656542]

>>10656538
>Awful statistical analysis.
Bit more detail pls? I'm interested in how studies can fail at that level (stats/basic maths).
I don't recall anything badly done in the minnesota study.

[Anonymous No.10656543]

>>10656513
Because of people who try and force their agendas out of a sense of unfounded superiority. They therefore need to make others seem inferior. You of all people should know that OP. Nice "study". Back to /pol with you and your lot.

[Anonymous No.10656545]

>>10656518
>>10656518
>less than 50% replicability in studies

They score lower in literally every field and academic level

>terrible metrics

How so?

>a total failure to formulate even basic theories

The ancestors of Eurasians moved north out of Africa to a completely different climate that applied completely different selective pressures. Not only that, they interbred with the Neanderthals who had larger cranial cavities which would have given them a boost in terms of room for development

[Anonymous No.10656549]

>>10656538
You do realize that their entire intention was to DISprove the gap? When it didn't conclude what they wanted or expected, they abandoned it entirely

Let's try it another way. Find one single study in which the gap disappears

They don't exist

[Anonymous No.10656551]

>>10656549
>>>/pol/ is that way

[Anonymous No.10656552]

>>10656551

[Anonymous No.10656553]

>>10656545
You already jump to "they" and past the so called study. Why don't you go back to shitchan? Your agenda is clear.

Fellow /sci/guys, the only possible purpose this thread could serve is as a gathering point of memetics on this subject. I'm tired of discussing with these bastards. Slapping catchy infographs that exploded their crap would be a lot more fun. Let's do that.

[Anonymous No.10656554]

>>10656537
When you take the mean of a population, that includes a standard deviation, which describes the variation inside that group.

You'll notice that they've said nothing about that, which by itself is a statistics crime that should get the "scientists" behind this kicked in the balls. But not only is that variation important, it affects the value of the mean. There's a STANDARD, SIMPLE RECIPE for the certainty of your measurements of a mean. They did not bother to report any error bars in the main graph of their study. This is a damning crime that gets you a big fat F in freshman statistics, never mind actual research.

[Anonymous No.10656555]

>>10656553
So you can't answer any of my questions or address my point regarding evolutionary divergence. Gotcha

[Anonymous No.10656556]

>>10656554
I like how you're giving them so much shit when their intent the whole time was to disprove the racial IQ gap

[Anonymous No.10656558]

>>10656552
> posting this picture will certainly prove I'm not a poltard.
kek

[Anonymous No.10656559]

>>10656551
>>10656552
>>10656553
>>10656554
>>10656555
>>10656556
C-C-C-C-COMBO

[Anonymous No.10656561]

>>10656558
>Calling him a poltard will certainly prove I'm not a shill

lulz

[Anonymous No.10656563]

>>10656556
Intent is irrelevant when the methodology is so uselessly underdeveloped that if it was applied to a physics problem, /pol/tards would use it to "prove" that gravity goes up.

[Anonymous No.10656567]

>>10656513
>a fact that is worthless and controversial
>why don't people have serious discussions about this outside of anonymous image boards?

[Anonymous No.10656568]

>>10656563
So find a study in which the gap disappears due to negated socio-economic factors

[Anonymous No.10656572]

>>10656567
>a fact that is worthless and controversial

So you think it's worthless to NOT lump a group which is collectively borderline retarded in with those of above average intelligence?

[Anonymous No.10656576]

>>10656568
Find a valid study that proves it first.

[Anonymous No.10656577]

>>10656568
https://www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/5/1/1/htm

Here you go.

[Anonymous No.10656579]

>>10656576
The point is that you can't even bring the subject up without getting shitlisted

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fury-at-dna-pioneers-theory-africans-are-less-intelligent-than-westerners-394898.html

>Lolol you don't have any evidence for the position that will get you blackballed from the scientific community

[Anonymous No.10656581]

>>10656577
>https://www.mdpi.com/2079-3200/5/1/1/htm

I've read it, the gap doesn't disappear. They just make excuses.

Infinite, mealy-mouthed excuses.

>B-but muh Flynn effect

Lol, the Flynn effect has been going in reverse recently

[Anonymous No.10656584]

>>10656579
So in otherwords no evidence exists and you resort to posting some link about a racist with alzheimer's.

[Anonymous No.10656585]

>>10656561
>Shill

Congrats on your schizophrenic conspiracy theory.

[Anonymous No.10656586]

>>10656581
>The paper that actually has standards is the one making excuses
No, the people drawing conclusions from flawed studies at minuscule sample sizes are the ones making excuses.

[Anonymous No.10656587]

>>10656584
>racist

[Anonymous No.10656588]

>>10656587
>Saying blacks are dumber than whites isn’t racist

[Anonymous No.10656589]

>>10656585
>conspiracy theory

>Euro-centric countries are being flooded by 60 IQ Somali immigrants on a daily basis and is admitted so by replacement migration

>>10656586
I asked for a study in which the gap disappears

[Anonymous No.10656591]

>>10656588
>Implying facts can be racist

It's simple biology. They lived in an environment where day to day survival was paramount.

>Don't get eaten by that lion

>Don't starve to death today

>Don't get snapped up by that crocodile while getting water

Europe has fewer predators but a harsher winter which requires more long term thinking.

[Anonymous No.10656592]

>>10656589
There's no proof there even is a gap so why would studies exist about it disappearing? Christ the stupidity of these poltards is beyond belief.

[Anonymous No.10656593]

>>10656589
Burden of proof is on you, you're the one who needs to provide a proper study where it exists.

[Anonymous No.10656594]

>>10656581
Do you even notice your own confirmation bias?
"Making excuses" is also known as controlling for variables, something that can be considered the bread and butter of a statistical paper that aims to highlight the effect of one variable (in this case, race).

[Anonymous No.10656595]

>>10656592
Most people don't even deny that the gap exists, just the root cause

> the stupidity of these poltards is beyond belief.

Psychological projection is a psychological defense mechanism by which a person subconsciously denies his or her own attributes, thoughts, and emotions, which are then ascribed to the outside world, usually to other people. Thus, projection involves imagining or projecting the belief that others originate those feelings.

[Anonymous No.10656596]

>>10656589
>conspiracy theory

Believing that there are “shills” running about paid to call you and people like you a retard is a conspiracy theory. You believe there is a group of humans engaged in some clandestine operation. That’s a conspiracy.

>Euro-centric countries are being flooded by 60 IQ Somali immigrants on a daily basis and is admitted so by replacement migration

Replacement immigration is immigration intended to compensate for a native birthrate below replacement level. It’s not your imaginary white genocide conspiracy theory, sorry to upset you.

[Anonymous No.10656597]

>>10656593
>Provide a proper study for your claim which will get you kicked out of the scientific community period.

Notice the OP?

>Why is it impossible to have a legitimate discussion on the racial intelligence gap?

That's the issue I'm trying to get at. Look at how defensive people are getting over it on an anonymous forum. Calling something 'racist' makes it 100% taboo

[Anonymous No.10656598]

>>10656595
>most people
Who your dumbass friends over at /pol/? Still waiting for those studies

[Anonymous No.10656602]

>>10656597
Yeah it's shit did you ignore the whole thread because it hurt your feelings?

[Anonymous No.10656604]

>>10656591
>Implying facts can be racist

By definition, yes they can, but the facts are sadly not yours to hold.

>It's simple biology. They lived in an environment where day to day survival was paramount.

So did everyone in the entire world until the last ten thousand years.

>Don't get eaten by that lion

>Don't starve to death today

People in Europe had to consider EXACTLY THE SAME POSSIBILITIES. Lions didn’t go extinct in Europe until after fucking Plato.

>Europe has fewer predators

Wrong. Europe had giant cave bears, giant hyenas, lions, normally sized but still huge bears, dire wolves, dangerous rhinos and mammoths, sabertooths, etc.

>but a harsher winter which requires more long term thinking.

Africa has a dry season which requires more long term thinking.

[Anonymous No.10656606]

>>10656598
No, the community at large. It's just that they try to claim it's all due to poverty and oppression
>>10656602
There's nothing to ignore, I addressed it all

There's absolutely no circumstance under which the gap disappears

[Anonymous No.10656607]

>>10656518
It only falls under social science because actual biologists have been forced to not conduct any research on difference between races. Anyone doing so is sacked from position of teaching and scientific community. This isn't because the research they are doing is incorrect but because it upsets the harmonious well being of the leftist society of higher ed.

What we're left with is psuedos claiming there's no race, or race is social construct or other kinda nonsense. Race and gender science is to the left as evolutionary/climate change is to the right.

[Anonymous No.10656611]

>>10656606
You've linked one paper with a sample size of 132 and terrible methodology you're a fucking joke.

[Anonymous No.10656613]

>>10656604
Racism is defined as a belief that one race is superior to another

>So did everyone in the entire world until the last ten thousand years

The ancestors of Eurasians moved north out of Africa 70,000 years ago

>People in Europe had to consider EXACTLY THE SAME POSSIBILITIES.

Of course you have to eat day to day but Africa does not have a desolate winter

>Wrong. Europe had giant cave bears, giant hyenas, lions, normally sized but still huge bears, dire wolves, dangerous rhinos and mammoths, sabertooths, etc.

Bears are more territorial than predatory when it comes to humans and cave hyenas were scavengers. Rhinos are not predators

>Africa has a dry season which requires more long term thinking.

Not really. Finding water day to day in the heat is less intensive than finding firewood and food in the cold. Especially since water pools in the same places year after year

[Anonymous No.10656614]

>>10656607
>It only falls under social science because actual biologists have been forced to not conduct any research on difference between races. Anyone doing so is sacked from position of teaching and scientific community. This isn't because the research they are doing is incorrect but because it upsets the harmonious well being of the leftist society of higher ed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2567215/

Can you please prove to me that everyone involved in this was fired?

[Anonymous No.10656616]

>>10656611
>You haven't posted any evidence for the claim that gets you shitlisted just for mentioning it.

You're really not understanding the point of this thread are you? I'm trying to get at WHY the gap is so taboo

[Anonymous No.10656619]

>>10656572
it's worthless because nothing of significance will ever come of it. you are wasting time you could be using for more productive pursuits.

[Anonymous No.10656621]

>>10656616
You can't even prove it exists and you're saying it's taboo? Are you mentally ill?

[Anonymous No.10656625]

>>10656621
The gap very clearly exists but the excuses are made that it's all socio-economic. Genetics can't even be considered

[Anonymous No.10656627]

>>10656619
Yes, but it could. We could resegregate society.

[Anonymous No.10656628]

??????????????????????

[Anonymous No.10656630]

>>10656581
By any honest statistical methodology, "We can't find the difference" is the same as "There is no difference".

Again, back to the "gravity goes up" example. If I propose an experiment to measure gravity using bouncy balls, and record the position of the bouncy ball after SLAMMING IT THE FUCK INTO THE GROUND AT MACH 5 SPEED with a high error margin on time, doing 100 samples, would you call that a good test of gravity? Most of the time, the ball ends up above where it started. Does that mean gravity goes up, or does it mean the experiment is shit?

[Anonymous No.10656632]

>>10656545

what the fuck is sample bias?
what the fuck is a hidden variable?


You're bad at stats and bad at logic, this is why we can't have a discussion.

That graph to me doesn't say black people are dumb (its possible, but not exclusive)
it says that the cultural environment of established people is better than the subjugated broken environment provided by typical black parents in America. Probably due to generations of suppression. Maybe there is some truth in it, but these studies are not well controlled enough or statistically relevant enough to come to that conclusion.


separating genetic environmental and anthropological effects is nearly impossible, so making hard conclusions like "niggers are stupid because this graph says so" is unbelievably naive and only serves to demonstrate a serious lack of critical thinking

[Anonymous No.10656634]

>>10656630
So no example of the gap disappearing.

Gotcha

[Anonymous No.10656635]

>>10656628
>Be china
>Have 1.4 billion people
>Focus intensely on finding the one-in-a-million math autists

Wow what a surprise

[Anonymous No.10656636]

>>10656632
>Probably due to generations of suppression

>A few hundred years of oppression made all the difference

>70,000 years of evolutionary divergence made no difference whatsoever

[Anonymous No.10656637]

>>10656513
no, just declare you want to increase equal opportunity funds by 10x to solve it

[Anonymous No.10656642]

>>10656635
>H-here have some more excuses

[Anonymous No.10656643]

>>10656628
its predominantly a cultural thing not a genetic thing

also these graphs are not normalized for population. 2 billion chicks who went to school 6 days a week, were not aloud to have fun and are doing math so they don't end up in a sweat shop are going to have a major advantage over obese entitled American brats who are told they are 'special' and can 'do anything' from day one despite never being challenged or having accomplished anything at any point in their lives.


but yeah, muh genetics is probably a better explanation.

[Anonymous No.10656647]

>>10656636
Dude

Africa is fucked,
I fucking guarantee if you took white babies and they were raised in Africa or by suppressed African Americans they would turn out dumb as fuck.

There may be a bias in intelligence, but it is strongly confounded by culture and history, which is by far the dominant factor in the final outcome for an adult's comprehension and intelligence.

[Anonymous No.10656653]

>>10656643
>chicks
chinks*

[Anonymous No.10656655]

>>10656513
Because retards like you exist OP

[Anonymous No.10656656]

>>10656634

[Anonymous No.10656661]

>>10656613
>Racism is defined as a belief that one race is superior to another

Therefore facts could conceivably be racist if they demonstrated that one race was superior to another.

>The ancestors of Eurasians moved north out of Africa 70,000 years ago

Thanks for conceding that they experienced exactly the same conditions for the vast majority of history.

>Of course you have to eat day to day but Africa does not have a desolate winter

Africa has a desolate dry season instead. Both environs have herding animal populations that could be eaten in this period.

>Bears are more territorial than predatory when it comes to humans

Doesn’t make them not a danger, especially when they desire the same cave real estate humans do.

>and cave hyenas were scavengers

And predators, retard, just like the hyenas in Africa.

>Rhinos are not predators

Rhinos kill people, especially when “people” is a bunch of dumb cave people with sticks.

>Not really

Genius assessment.

>Finding water day to day in the heat is less intensive than finding firewood and food in the cold

Why did you just lie? You have to both find food and water. Picking up wood isn’t rocket science.

>Especially since water pools in the same places year after year

That’s exactly why such an environment selects for long-term planning. Elephant herds trek for miles to find water sources in the dry season they only know about from elder knowledge.

[Anonymous No.10656666]

Hey OP,
Have you ever taken a scientific course at the graduate level, let alone undergraduate level?

I'm not saying this to appeal to authority to win an argument; I really don't give a shit about this specific case. I just want you to step outside yourself for a moment, and seriously consider that maybe people who have gone through several years of education and research aren't missing the point that is so obvious to you, and rather, have already considered the explanation you are presenting, and probably even more that you've never even thought of, before reaching their conclusion.

This is not unlike the people who dismiss global warming with the argument that "the global temperature is cyclical and rises and falls periodically regardless of human activity". Do you really think that a researcher working on this problem for most of his adult life has not considered this? If it's obvious to you discovering it on a shitty jpg on 4chan, how come all the brightest minds of academia missed it? Who do you think collected and presented the data in the first place?

The point I'm trying to make, and an answer to your question of "why is it impossible to have a legitimate discussion of x", is you. You are what is making it impossible. You just don't have the necessary background to understand the discussion, and instead you and people like you patrol the internet for articles and scientific reports that confirm your world view. Again, I'm not trying to dismiss you in any way, I just want you to consider that the likelyhood of you stumbling upon some great scientific result on the internet is very, very slim, and to maybe consider getting an education in the field if you want to discuss contemporary research.

[Anonymous No.10656671]

>>10656666
inb4
>muh jews

[Anonymous No.10656674]

>>10656666
As a scientist who is regularly told i'm wrong about how the world works primarily by the least educated I approve of this post.

[Anonymous No.10656684]

Here's the medium article again with a good current review of the topic
https://medium.com/@houstoneuler/the-cherry-picked-science-in-voxs-charles-murray-article-bd534a9c4476

>At this point it is important to emphasize just how mainstream Murray’s views are in the field of intelligence research. The most controversial sentence in The Bell Curve attributed about half of the black-white IQ gap to genetics, the rest to environment. In 2013, a survey of 228 intelligence researchers found that the typical scientist in this field agrees

to answer op's question, because it hurts people's feelings.

[Anonymous No.10656688]

>>10656666
> quad post best post
It's shame this needs to be said. It's even worse that it also doesn't matter despite being correct because those it applies to the most will simply ignore it.

[Anonymous No.10656696]

Because people are self-interested retards and will ignore evidence on all sides in favor of basic bitch tribalism.

Here is the truth,

>Genes effects IQ
>Genetic bottlenecking effects IQ
>Population dynamics effects IQ
>Mate selection effects IQ
>Prenatal nutrition effects IQ
>Malnutrition in early childhood effects IQ
>Stress and cortisol levels during pregnancy effects birth weight which in turn effects cognition/behavior/IQ
>Starvation/Fasting and cortisol levels during pregnancy effects birth weight which in turn effects cognition/behavior/ IQ
>Iodine consumption in both prenatal/early childhood effects IQ
>Omega fatty acids consumption in both prenatal/early childhood effects IQ
>basic literacy effects IQ
>catagorized usage of bilingualism between school (second language) and home (native language) effects IQ
>Parasites during prenatal/early childhood effects IQ

All of the above can be easily googled with research papers explaining in detail. But because people are self-interested retards especially the ones here and on other boards/forums they will only choose one factor and die on said hill for it. I'm not even going to pretend what I say in this post will convince the retards but laying out the facts will at least show someone in this thread is impartial to the situation.

[Anonymous No.10656717]

>>10656696
Also lead.

[Anonymous No.10656720]

>>10656513
Because no one denies the gap for legitimate reasons.
It's no different to there being an intelligence gap between humans and worms. Facts and theory are completely unambiguous and all say there are gaps, but that makes some people sad so they decide to believe there aren't and anything saying there are must be because of racism or flawed methodology or whatever.

[Anonymous No.10656740]

>>10656596
>Replacement immigration is immigration intended to compensate for a native birthrate below replacement level.
You just described what white genocide is you dumb faggot

[Anonymous No.10656743]

>>10656598
SEETHE harder

[Anonymous No.10656745]

>>10656656
>this is the best /sci/ can come up with

[Anonymous No.10656748]

>>10656740
Genocide: “the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.”

UN Definition
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

No, immigration intended to compensate for low native fertility rates isn’t genocide, and intent to destroy is specifically required. You’re a retard.

[Anonymous No.10656749]

>>10656674
Get over yourself

[Anonymous No.10656753]

>>10656748
>No, immigration intended to compensate for low native fertility rates isn’t genocide

That's how /pol/ defines it nevertheless. I don't think it fits definition of genocide either but you providing the /pol/'s deifinition of white genocide while also insiting white genocide doesn't exist all in one sentence was outright moronic. That is what I was pointing out.

[Anonymous No.10656754]

>>10656513
Because it always end up in burgers yelling burger shit at each other in 3 posts

[Anonymous No.10656758]

>>10656743
>Education was rated by N = 71 experts as the most important cause of international ability differences. Genes were rated as the second most relevant factor but also had the highest variability in ratings. Culture, health, wealth, modernization, and politics were the next most important factors, whereas other factors such as geography, climate, test bias, and sampling error were less important.

Why do /pol/ tards never actually read studies? Is there some kind of IQ gap here between /pol/ users and non /pol/ users? Is this clear IQ gap caused by education? genes? culture?

[Anonymous No.10656771]

>>10656753
I could provide you the definition of light saber and plenty of the internet will argue about it but that doesn't make them real.

[Anonymous No.10656773]

>>10656758
>One limitation of the study can be seen in the small sample and low response rates. The sample consisted of 71 respondents, which is small compared to Snyderman and Rothman's sample of 661 respondents (of 1020 invitations). In addition, self-selection of experts could have biased the results.

>We attempted to increase response rates by using an Internet survey, emailing invitations (and reminders), and announcing the survey at intelligence conferences. Despite these measures, response rates were still low. The low response rates may be attributed to the length of the survey (which took about 40–90 min to complete), self-censorship, or fear of addressing a controversial subject (despite assurances of anonymity). The low response rates may also reflect a paucity of experts on intelligence and international differences in cognitive ability. There may be 20–50 scientists who study international differences in intelligence. Based on this estimate, the number of respondents (71 people) may exceed the number of scientists who study the topic! Because the aim of the survey was to obtain expert opinions on the research questions, our view is that participation of people with only tangential knowledge of the subject matter could distort answers more than low response rates attributable to self-selection by experts.

Please tell me more about not actually reading your studies.

[Anonymous No.10656780]

>>10656773
you're the one who cited it lmao I agree it's a shit study

[Anonymous No.10656781]

>>10656758
>genes were rated as the second most relevant factor

That proves the /pol/ point you idiot. Second most important factor is still significant. And especially in current political climate, where genetic explanation is extremely controversial, it is telling that it ranks at second place.

[Anonymous No.10656784]

>>10656596
>Replacement immigration is immigration intended to compensate for a native birthrate below replacement level.

Which would be possibly acceptable if it was not composed of migrants of inferior genetic stock.

[Anonymous No.10656789]

>>10656758
>N = 71
Just say 71 for fucks sake.

[Anonymous No.10656790]

>>10656780
No, you retard, I cited (Rinderman, Coyle and Becker, 2013), you cited (Rinderman, Coyle and Becker, 2016) which is obvious since my study asked about heritability.

Holy shit, is being illiterate a requirement for posting on this board?

[Anonymous No.10656791]

>>10656748
>No, immigration intended to compensate for low native fertility rates isn’t genocide, and intent to destroy is specifically required.
There is no such need and therefore no compensating immigration is needed. You've fallen into the cult of infinite growth with GDP as your god. Your mascot should be a can which gets kicked down an infinitely long road. Too bad eventually a wall appears but you'll be dead by then so it's not your problem.

[Anonymous No.10656798]

>>10656790
>Not using the most recent work from the same authors.
You want to know how I know you are cherry-picking?

[Anonymous No.10656799]

>>10656781
There's also the matter that culture is largely due to intelligence in the first place. It's not as if Europeans just moved north and found infrastructure