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/sci/ - Science & Math

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10640101 No.10640101 [Reply] [Original]

I wondered why we need so much salt in our food, if nearly all of it gets excreted almost imediately.

I got an idea that maybe the urge to eat salty is actually a response to excess chloride, with the purpose that the sodium could be used to get rid of the extra chloride ions. However, since all the sodium we consume comes from sodium chloride, this doesn't work as the same amount of chloride gets eaten with it, throwing us into an endless cycle of craving salt, only the sodium being used up to excrete all the chloride that was eaten with it.

What does /sci/ think?

>> No.10640110
File: 61 KB, 605x390, Kitum_Cave_Elephants.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10640110

>>10640101
>Why do we desire so much salt?

Salt is VERY important for temperature regulation, so much so that Elephants "mine" salt in caves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitum_Cave

>> No.10640147

>>10640110
Did you actually read what I wrote, or did you respond just to the title?

>> No.10640153
File: 32 KB, 600x600, 1557261964374.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10640153

>>10640101
Cos it tastes good

>> No.10640157

>>10640153
The question is why it tastes good.

>> No.10640160

>>10640147
Not him but why? You wrote some shitty shower thought without sources that makes zero sense and you even argument against it yourself.
Meanwhile this could be an interesting thread about humans and salt if you werent such a raging faggot:
Did you know that salt is very good when you want to merge strands of DNA together? If you have an error in your watson crick pairs, normally it would slow down ligation by a good bit, but salt ions can move in between mismatched bases and cause them to bond more strongly speeding up the process!

>> No.10640164

>>10640101
I think you just need to maintain the salt concentration in your body for it to function properly, not only for nerve signals, but also the presence of ions will change biochemistry reactions and since those ions were there always when the body biochemistry evolved your brain makes sure you have enough.

>> No.10640165

>>10640160
How do I argument against it myself?

What do you mean by "salt ions"? There is no such a thing, it's either sodium, or chloride and I said excess of sone causes craving for the other, and since NaCl has them in perfect balance (unlike other sodium minerals such as natron) eating it doesn't help.

>> No.10640169

>>10640165
> "salt ions"? There is no such a thing, it's either sodium, or chloride
what grade school level are you? 5? 6?

>> No.10640178

>>10640169
What is your problem? It's you who wrote nonsense.

>> No.10640179

>>10640165
Mate seriously this could be a nice thread if you werent in it. Can you just remove it from your threadwatcher and move on to another board?
If you want to talk about chemistry at least get a basic grasp before posting. There are links to books in the sticky I think that answer your question and I'm sure since youre such a courious person youll find more on your own...

>> No.10640182

>>10640179
You didn't point out any mistake and instead keep talking about the title instead of the question I asked.

>> No.10640190

>>10640182
Your question if meaningless, as in it literally makes no sense, because you don't even have have a basic grasp of chemistry or biology.

>> No.10640194

>>10640182
Promise to stop posting afterwards?
>I got an idea that maybe the urge to eat salty is actually a response to excess chloride, with the purpose that the sodium could be used to get rid of the extra chloride ions. However, since all the sodium we consume comes from sodium chloride, this doesn't work

>>10640178
This also isnt me you're replying to here, just so you get an idea of how little sense youre making...

>> No.10640197

>>10640190
How does it not make sense? Do you even understand what I'm asking? Why do you keep talking about sweating and DNA, which have nothing to do with that?

>> No.10640199

>>10640194
How is that a mistake?

>> No.10640201

the 4chan theory is that people are deficient in iodine and that's why they crave salty foods

>> No.10640208

>>10640101
SALT FUCKIG SUCKS DICKY BALLSSS!!

>> No.10640210

>>10640197
>>10640199
Are you a literal pajeet, paja? I dont know how many people are in here making fun of you but its at least two...
Thanks for making us all less worried about india becoming relevant any time soon though...

>> No.10640211

>>10640153
NOOOO OH GOD HEAVENLY JESUS WHY THE FROGS KILL MEEEEE NOO IIIIT FOOKIN SUUUCKS BROOOOOOOOOO

>> No.10640213

>>10640210
INDIA IIIIS A FOOKIN PIG STY THOSE SMELLY FUCKS SMELL LIKE A DOG'S ASSHOOLE OH MY GOOD XDD

>> No.10640220

>>10640210
Do I need to break it down for you?

There are sodium and chloride in your body.

Chloride cannot be excreted without a positive ion excreted with it.

There can be too much chloride in the body.

Since the extra chloride cannot be excreted without sodium excreted with it, the body starts craving sodium so that the excess chloride can be excreted.

Since the salt we eat has sodium and chloride in perfect balance, all the sodium it provides is excreted with the chloride and the balance cannot be restored.

The body is still too high in chloride, and the craving remains.

>> No.10640231

>>10640220
You don't even know that chemical molecules can be ions and seem to think that lumps of sodium and chlorine are floating around inside our bodies. You also write like you just got out of kindergarten. There is zero point in continuing the discussion because it's like trying to have an argument with a chimp.

>> No.10640235

>>10640220
You should try to not eat any salt for as long as you can, paja. According to your brilliant theory nothing would happen right? Since all the rest of us retards are animalistically craving it without needing any of it.

>> No.10640238

>>10640231
>You don't even know that chemical molecules can be ions and seem to think that lumps of sodium and chlorine are floating around inside our bodies.

No idea what makes you think that.

>You also write like you just got out of kindergarten.

Not my native langauge and no idea what makes you think so.

>> No.10640242

>>10640235
I have tried. Nothing happened in a month. The most bothersome part was obtaining enough variety of food without salt.

>> No.10640250

>>10640242
>I have tried. Nothing happened in a month.
Post research notes and results. How did you measure what did or didnt happen?

>> No.10640255

>>10640242
Also dont stop! You might eventually start to feel nauseous or sick but thats just your body craving useless stuff!

>> No.10640271 [DELETED] 

>>10640250
Well there were some symptoms as less sweating and darker urine, but nothing serious. There are cultures who don't use salt, such as the Yanomami. Why don't you post sources about people getting too sick from too little?

>>10640255
I still don't think you read my question.

>> No.10640273

>>10640250
Well there were some symptoms as less sweating and darker urine, but nothing serious. There are cultures who don't use salt, such as the Yanomami. Why don't you post sources about people getting sick from too little?

>>10640255
I still don't think you read my question.

>> No.10640303

Boludon

>> No.10640320

>>10640273
Spoiler: most foods/drinks contain salts anyway. Even those that supposedly dont.
Try living using only deionised water and foods with as little salts as possible

>> No.10640321

>>10640273
>Hyponatremia
This is as far as I will spoonfeed you. Ill also stop bumping the thread now. Thought it had potential too, but maybe with an op who can be bothered to use google...

>> No.10640331

>>10640320
please go back

>> No.10640343

>>10640320
I did use deionized water.

>>10640321
Yes, it would be a from of hyponatremia, but I have no idea what you mean. If you could use google, you could google that the kidney indeed cannot excrete ammonium, so it needs to excrete chloride as sodium chloride.

>> No.10640519

>>10640343
Ammonia is processed through your urine? Why the fuck do you think salt is relevant except for normal functioning of the body?

>> No.10640585

>>10640519
The body needs sodium to excrete chloride, since it cannot produce ammonia.

If the body is too high in chloride, it has no way of getting rid of it without losing too much sodium, so it needs a source of sodium without chloride in order to get rid of it.

>> No.10640587

>>10640585
Which means that if you are sodium deficient because the body is using the sodium to get rid of chloride, eating salt won't resolve the deficiency, because salt contains chloride, and the body is using up sodium to excrete it.

>> No.10640976

>>10640101
>body needs sodium and chloride to function
>inner land regions tend to have lower quantities of both per food item (plants or meat)
>land animals evolve to like the taste of rock salt/minerals to compensate

It has nothing to do with trying to balance out sodium with chloride or vice versa. It is the same mechanism that let's people love sweets and sugar. You evolved to cherish those when you find it by chance (like a berry bush or a tree carrying fruit) but today it is artificially surrounding us in everyday life.

>> No.10641079

>>10640976
But if you do that, the salt cravings stop and salt less food becomes preferable to salty.

>> No.10641114

>>10640585
Sodium is not the only cation present in your body, idiot

>> No.10641327

>>10641114
It's something like 30 times more common than the next more common one. And it can be used, which is the point, so excreting chloride depletes it.

And it works.

>> No.10642014

Op you're a fucking dumbass

>> No.10642020

>>10640147
This nigga posting about salt-mining elephants and you expect anyone to give a fuck about your thread?

>> No.10642213

>>10640585
You are painfully ignorant. So much so that I believe you're doing it on purpose. Either way, please stop posting permanently as your ideas are useless in every way.

>> No.10642258

Na+/K+ ion channels in your brain make your neurons work. that's like asking why we need sugar; it's an energy source

/thread

>> No.10642356

>>10642258
Did you read more than the title? no you didn't.
>>10642020
>>10642213
Dtto

>> No.10642407

>>10642356
I read every single one of your posts, which is precisely why I came to the conclusion that you're ignorant.

>> No.10642414

>>10642407
But you keep saying we need sodium, which I do not dispute. I'm saying that regular salt cannot restore it, since it contains chloride and sodium is used up when kidnies remove chloride.

>> No.10642441

>>10642414
>But you keep saying we need sodium
I've stated no such thing. All I've pointed out is that you're ignorant, which you cannot dispute.
>I'm saying that regular salt cannot restore it, since it contains chloride and sodium is used up when kidnies remove chloride.
This is exactly the kind of pointless statement that I based my statement off of.

>> No.10642527

>>10642441
>lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Ignorant of what exactly?

>This is exactly the kind of pointless statement that I based my statement off of.

What exactly about it is wrong?

>> No.10642536

The glucose symporters in intestinal epithelial cells require sodium as the partner molecule. Similar glucose/NA cotransporters are found in the heart and kidney as well. This could be one of many functions that contribute to sodium desire.

>> No.10642551

>>10642536
Again you keep arguing that the body needs sodium, which I never disputed.

>> No.10642553

>>10642536
I'm saying that salt cannot provide sodium, since the body needs one sodium to excrete one chloride, so you lose all the sodium on excreting the chloride. Which is why we keep craving it despite eating it; you need a source that doesn't contain chloride with it.

>> No.10642563

>>10642551
>the body needs one sodium to excrete one chloride
what the fuck are you talking about
Even if this was true, other bioavailable cations could be used to bind with the chloride

>> No.10642567

>>10642563
There is too little of them and you would lose them as well. The body cannot synthesize any cation from common elements.

>> No.10642657

>>10642567
LITERALLY WHAT THE FUCK EVEN IS YOUR POINT.

>> No.10642660

>>10640101

>> No.10642669

>>10642657
YOU CANNOT GET ANY SODIUM FROM REGULAR SALT, YOU NEED ANOTHER SODIUM COMPOUND.

Seriously why is it such a problem to understand what I'm saying?

>> No.10642684

>>10642669
Because it makes no sense that you think you've discovered something. This kind of pointless thought doesn't even deserve a /sci/ thread

>> No.10642700

>>10642684
But it works, just try it.

>Because it makes no sense that you think you've discovered something.

What do you mean? Why is it nonsens? New things get discovered all the time, otherwise we would live in prehistory chasing mammoths.

>> No.10642707

>>10642700
>But it works, just Paja it.
>>Because it makes no Paja that you think you've discovered something Paja.
>What do you Paja? Why is it Paja? New things get discovered all the Paja, otherwise we would live in Paja chasing Pajas.

>> No.10642713

>>10642707
Sure you think you're very smart. It isn't my fault you cannot understand it, I try my best and there is no reason why it should be a problem.

>> No.10642716

>>10642684
I've read the thread and you're clearly the idiot. His point is
1. During our evolutionary history we consumed food with more sodium than chlorine (meat).
2. The "same mechanism that lets people love sweets and sugar" (why not just say taste or satiation-of-craving) is triggered by sodium in table salt.
3. Due to the chlorine in table salt the deficiency isn't met, so the craving returns.

>> No.10642725

>>10642713
>Sure you think you're very Paja. It isn't my Paja you cannot understand it Paja, I Paja my best and there is no Paja why it should be a Paja.

Paja Paja Paja
Paja
Paja Paja Paja Paja play with my Paja daddy oh rub it hard ohhh Paja Paja

>> No.10642732

>>10642716
The thing I'm criticizing is that he seems to think he's discovered something new. That's all I've said. I think you've lumped someone else's posts in with mine.

>> No.10642751

>>10642732
He argues as if he's discovered something new, because society operates as if he has. His implied question is why do we add salt to food rather than something else like sodium ascorbate?

>> No.10643394

>>10640343
no you fucking did not use water without ions you fucking stupid fuck
jesus you are honestly a waste of air and totally rustling my jimmies
Now i know this is a troll thread and i'm leaving

>> No.10643412 [DELETED] 

>>10643394
Yes, from a fish tank RO.

>> No.10643417

>>10643394
I fucking did. I see there is no point of arguing with you, you simply mock and deny everything I say.

>> No.10643437

>>10642716
>>10643394
This is correct. I can't believe that nobody got that idea before me.

>> No.10643719
File: 81 KB, 759x486, Paja.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
10643719

>>10643437
>This is Paja. I can't believe that Paja got that idea before Paja.

Oh Paja please I need it bad, fill me with your Paja. Spurt your Paja into meeeee

>> No.10643835

>>10643417
Bro, literally go read Lehninger Principle of Biochemistry and some physiology books
PLEASE
This is becoming some /x/ type of logic and it should be evident that its not something to be proud of

>> No.10643858

What is google?

Abstract

Ionic sodium, obtained from dietary sources usually in the form of sodium chloride (NaCl, common table salt) is essential to physiological function, and in humans salt is generally regarded as highly palatable. This marriage of pleasant taste and physiological utility might appear fortunate--an appealing taste helps to ensure that such a vital substance is ingested. However, the powerful mechanisms governing sodium retention and sodium balance are unfortunately best adapted for an environment in which few humans still exist. Our physiological and behavioral means for maintaining body sodium and fluid homeostasis evolved in hot climates where sources of dietary sodium were scarce. For many reasons, contemporary diets are high in salt and daily sodium intakes are excessive. High sodium consumption can have pathological consequences. Although there are a number of obstacles to limiting salt ingestion, high sodium intake, like smoking, is a modifiable behavioral risk factor for many cardiovascular diseases. This review discusses the psychobiological mechanisms that promote and maintain excessive dietary sodium intake. Of particular importance are experience-dependent processes including the sensitization of the neural systems underlying sodium appetite and the effects of sodium balance on hedonic state and mood. Accumulating evidence suggests that plasticity within the central nervous system as a result of experience with high salt intake, sodium depletion, or a chronic unresolved sodium appetite fosters enduring changes in sodium related appetitive and consummatory behaviors.
PMID 18514747 [Indexed for MEDLINE] PMCID PMC2491403

>> No.10643863

Abstract

Sodium is a necessary dietary macromineral that tended to be sparsely distributed in mankind’s environment in the past. Evolutionary selection pressure shaped physiological mechanisms including hormonal systems and neural circuits that serve to promote sodium ingestion. Sodium deficiency triggers the activation of these hormonal systems and neural circuits to engage motivational processes that elicit a craving for salty substances and a state of reward when salty foods are consumed. Sodium deficiency also appears to be associated with aversive psychological states including anhedonia, impaired cognition, and fatigue. Under certain circumstances the psychological processes that promote salt intake can become powerful enough to cause “salt gluttony,” or salt intake far in excess of physiological need. The present review discusses three aspects of the biopsychology of salt hunger and sodium deficiency: 1) the psychological processes that promote salt intake during sodium deficiency, 2) the effects of sodium deficiency on mood and cognition, and 3) the sensitization of sodium appetite as a possible cause of salt gluttony.
Keywords: Homeostasis, Motivation and reward, Salt Appetite, Mood, Hypertension

>> No.10643867

>>10643858
>>10643863

LARPers should be gassed
Questions should be searched before being asked
Everyone here should quit existing

>> No.10644343

This thread is really strange. All the attacks on OP are straw men. For example,
>>10643858
>>10643863
attack OP as if to say
>OP, why do you say that sodium is unnecessary? Here, look, there's scientific articles that show it is an evolutionary necessity!
When OP didn't say that sodium is unnecessary.

It's as if most of the posters ITT are paid shills working for the salt lobby.

>> No.10644475

>>10644343
>All the attacks on OP are straw men
I disagree. All the attacks on PAJA are Paja men.

>> No.10644890

>>10644343
Or the food industry.

Basically, chloride and phosphate deplete sodium from the body. Table salt canot restore the balance, as the chloride excretion depletes as much sodium as the salt provides. This causes cravings and people keep eating. Holy shit they know it, that's why they switched to phosphoric acid, they make people overeat on purpose.

>> No.10644896

>>10644890
I need more Paja in my diet. That's why I eat so much, it's a subconscious craving for Paja.

>> No.10644902

>>10640220
I wonder if you could excrete Cl- with K+. Or Ca++. Or Mg++. I wonder if biocarbonate complexes could mediate ion imbalances. I wonder if OP has ever looked up "chloride excretion" on Google.

>> No.10644912

>>10644902
You need those too, their concentrations must be kept at exact balance, the body can't just excrete them willy nilly. Bicarbonate does restore balance, but in the opposite direction, it is an anion.

>> No.10644913

>>10640101
youre retarded salt taste like shit

>> No.10644915

>>10644912
>the body can't just excrete them willy nilly.
What do you excrete, Paja?

>> No.10644917

>>10644896
You shut up.

>> No.10644919

>>10644917
I need you Paja.

>> No.10644921

>>10644890
>Or the food industry.
>Basically, chloride and phosphate deplete sodium from the body. Table salt canot restore the balance, as the chloride excretion depletes as much sodium as the salt provides. This causes cravings and people keep eating. Holy shit they know it, that's why they switched to phosphoric acid, they make people overeat on purpose.


Don't let the troll distract you from this, please.

>> No.10644924

>>10644921
>Don't let the troll distract you from this, please.
Says the attention whore namefag.

Paja Paja is that your real name? What country do you live in? Tell us more about yourself. You don't want to be anonymous so you must want people to notice you.

What's your favorite color

>> No.10645006

>>10644343
>ITT are paid shills working for the salt lobby.
Based schizo

>> No.10645338

timekeeping

>> No.10645371

What is the function of chloride in the human body.