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/sci/ - Science & Math

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1058239 No.1058239 [Reply] [Original]

So /sci/, I just read that chimps can learn sign language.

To what extent can they "talk" to humans once they've learned sign language? Is there actual communication back that presents at least partially complex thinking?

>> No.1058639

bump

>> No.1058665

They have no concept of the word " I "

or the concept of anything that is happening outside of the room, or in the future or in the past. its always in the now.

Our language has heavy use in the time spanning words

>> No.1058666

from what I've heard, yes.

>> No.1058679

>>1058665
>>1058666

So what sort of things do they say? Do they ever initiate conversation themselves, or only respond?

>> No.1058699

>>1058679
yeah the initiate conversations themselves

they say things like they want things or dont want things.

a chimp once lived with only humans and was raised souly around them. Once other natural acting chimps (zoo chimps) came around it, the domesticated chimp called the wild chimps "bugs" It couldn't relate

>> No.1058722

Note that native speakers of the various sign languages the chimps were taught said that the chimps were not speaking sign language fluently.

They think, in linguistic terms, about on the level with a three year old.

>> No.1058723

They can understand what you think they think, but they can't understand what you think they think you think.
humans can do it up to five times then it gets difficult because of the way our brains work

>> No.1058727

>>1058236

jal vv dd wyCsHiRlIStTOPHER POOlLE (AKA MuOqOT, AKA THkEg ADMIN OF 4CHAtNb) IS A DnANkGEeROUsSi,u MhEkNTALLeY IdLgL TxHIEsF. RuEAD ALL ABOUhT IuT HEkRE:c HTTiPa://8x8.80.y21.12/ OR HTTPg:/a/WWW.ANOfNTbALK.SeE/ OR HTTuP:e//AT.KIMsMOqA.SmE/rir lhv q n

>> No.1058737

>>1058723
I had to read that 6 times to understand it

>> No.1058741

>>1058723
what would be the measure and science of that study?
just curious, also kinda un-googleable

>> No.1058742

>>1058737
it's Kimmo's spam... read the cap letters.

>> No.1058743

>>1058737
Unsurprisingly, it's a lot easier in spoken English with the proper intonation. The written mode leaves a lot out that is usually in the spoken or signed modes.

>> No.1058895

>>1058723

So...they can't understand what we think that they think about what we think?

As in, they don't understand how we assume they perceive our thoughts?

>> No.1058914

>>1058895
No. They know what we are thinking. They know what we are thinking they are thinking.
They do not know what we are thinking they are thinking we are thinking.
They know what we they are thinking about us.
They know what we think about them.
They don't know, we know, what they think about us.

>> No.1058921

>>1058665
so that means parrots are smarter than them, they can do past and present tenses
I think we should invent their own monkey language they can speak anyway though.
fuck if black people language is just a bunch of clicks and grunts monkeys can fucking talk.

>> No.1058927

Sorry that's confusing as fuck. It's confusing to talk about but humans do it easily in social interactions.
It's like a troll detector.
chimps are easily trolled

>> No.1058941

>>1058665

Chimps are self aware. They might not have a "word" for it, but they could definitely be taught one.

>> No.1058943

>>1058921
Parrots don't use language at all, they just learn and repeat sounds.

>>1058239
As far as I know the most people have ever been able to teach chimps is how to say if they do or don't want something that's being offered to them. They have no concept of a lot of things required to use language like we do, plus they cannot comprehend grammar.

>> No.1058958

>>1058943
>>HURRR DURRR PARROTS CAN ONLU MIMIC
HAHAHA oh WOW
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_bird

>> No.1058964

they can point to more than less m n m's.

>> No.1058967
File: 47 KB, 419x333, 1273486076268.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1058967

>>1058958

>First line of article
>Talking birds are birds that can mimic human speech.

>> No.1058969

>>1058958
>Talking birds are birds that can mimic human speech.

>> No.1058984

>>1058967
prove that you arnt just mimicing human speech

>> No.1058989

It's sad that a species of ape that was a little closer to our intelligence didn't survive to live alongside us.

Maybe intelligent species immediately create rivalries between themselves.

>> No.1058991

>>1058984
You're a faggot...

OH SHI-

>> No.1058992

>>1058741
>>1058741
bump for this question please
>>1058741

>> No.1059009
File: 3 KB, 203x212, 1273487769741.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1059009

>>1058984

I can comprehend what I am saying, as well as forming coherent sentences. Not only that, but I also have a written language corresponding to my speech, something impossible if you only mimic sounds.

>> No.1059030

Smart chimps are supposed to have IQs around 70 something, IIRC.

Meaning, top tier chimps are about the same as low tier humans.

>> No.1059053

>>1059030
How do they measure a chimp's IQ? Also, there needs to be a breeding program set up to breed the genius chimps together. I want smart chimps for to labor for me, damn it.

>> No.1059068

>>1059009
you could have just learnt to reproduce those sentences

>> No.1059075

>>1059053
planet of the apes shit meng, you don't want smart chimps....

>> No.1059078

>>1059053
By teaching it sign language, then telling it to take an IQ test.

> Koko has a tested IQ of between 70 and 95 on a human scale
http://koko.org/world/

Koko is supposed to be the smartest (or just most well trained) chimp.

>> No.1059091

Related
http://www.theonion.com/video/scientists-successfully-teach-gorilla-it-will-die,17165/

>> No.1059097

>>1059068

If I was just reproducing sentences my responses would make little to no sense, lack grammar and be unrelated to what I'm responding to. I would not be able to represent what I am saying in written form, because they would not be linked in any way.

>> No.1059102

Can you train the smart chimps to pick cotton?

>> No.1059112

>>1059091

>scientists believe we will be able to teach gorillas to retort to alcoholism

Why would you do that.png

>> No.1059117

>>1058969
>>1058967
>>read first sentance
>>disregard entire document
Wow, I guess as a scientist i dont have to read anything but the title of a book or page to know something

You guys are as stupid as creationists. Durr i red it, the first line says evolution is true, thats a lie, the end.

>> No.1059143

>>1059117
The article doesn't say anything about them actually using it for language. Stop trying to troll.

>> No.1059153

>>1059097
you could be remembering unique answers to a large number of stimulus. Possible If you had allot of memory.

The way to prove thought goes into your answers is to change them slightly enough that they convey the same message but are clearly unique when asked the same question again. Useful if you ever get abducted by aliens

>> No.1059157

>>1059153
You're being pedantic and talking out of your ass.

>> No.1059173

>>1058992
Answer in here:
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/35/13861.full#sec-10

tl;dr If you look the other way, monkeys will steal your food as they don't know that you know that they might steal it.

The term for this is an embedded mental state.

>> No.1059174

>>1059157
omg just stop feeding the /g/tards

>> No.1059177
File: 14 KB, 225x262, 225px-Nikolaus_Kopernikus.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1059177

>>1059143
>>/sci/
>>trying to tell me I"M trolling
I hope this board gets deleted, I seriously do, you fuckers do not deserve to live, You are ignorant morons who do not care about learning, you only care to inflame others and wallow in your own ignorance.

African Grey Parrots

>>The African Grey Parrots are particularly noted for their cognitive abilities. Some of the most notable African Grey Parrots are Alex, Prudle, N'kisi and a new rising star, Einstein.
[edit]Alex
>>Alex had a vocabulary of about 100 words,[3] but he was one of the most famous birds because of his cognitive abilities. In 2005, World Science reported that Alex understood the concept of zero. Alex died on September 6, 2007.[4]
[edit]Prudle
>>Prudle held the Guinness world record for bird with biggest vocabulary for many years with a documented vocabulary of 800 words.[5]
[edit]N'kisi
>>N'kisi is noted for his impressive English usage skills and other abilities. As of January 2004, he had a documented vocabulary of 950 words and shows signs of a sense of humor. N'kisi is believed to be one of the most advanced users of human language in the animal world.[6]
[edit]Bibi
>>Bibi, a Congo African Grey Parrot, is best known for her ability to use greetings from 20 different languages,[9] earning her the nickname "The Polyglot Parrot." At only three years of age, Bibi has already developed a vocabulary of about 300 words, and she understands the concepts of color and shape.
[edit]Amazon parrots

>> No.1059183

>>1059153
If all we're doing is mechanically repeating learned words and phrases, then how do new ones enter language?

>> No.1059189

>>1059177
u mad

>> No.1059199

>>1059177
>Implying any of that comes anywhere close to constituting language.

>> No.1059205

Arielle is a pioneering bird demonstrating that the

>> No.1059208

>>1058914

So they don't know that we have them figured out you mean? They don't sense that we are intellectually superior to them?

>> No.1059219

Macaws

[edit]Arielle
Arielle is a pioneering bird demonstrating that the [filtered]

>> No.1059223

fucking word filter doesn't make any fucking sense

cliche?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_bird#Macaws

>> No.1059224

>>1059219
Try again bro', almost had it that time.

>> No.1059225

>>1059208
See:
>>1059173

>> No.1059238

>>1059223
I call bullshit, if you're making a claim like that then I'd need more than a poorly cited paragraph on wikipedia linking to some dickshit's book.

>> No.1059264

>>1059238
And I'm going to need more than some faggot's opinion on how birds learn to believe they only mimic shit. theres like 10 examples of birds there and they learn hundreds to near a thousand words digging around on wikipedia hardly yeilds a test battery of thousands of monkeys learning languages, and I cant find one with over 1000 words either.

>> No.1059292

>>1059264
Learning words and sounds does not equal learning a language, entirely different things.

At most these studies have shown that certain animals can be conditioned to use learned sounds in a sequence because it leads to them being rewarded, that isn't language, they have no or very little understanding of what they're really saying.

And it isn't just my opinion, it's the opinion of the overwhelming majority of animal behaviourists, biologists, and linguists across the world.

>> No.1059326

>>1059292
well koko the gorilla has madu up new words for some stuff

>> No.1059335

>>1059292
This is the fallacy of asking for proof of anythin g on fourchan that you fucking started, You demanded more proof than some faggot book that would have its own sited sources, then you waltz in with a generalized statement like THAT is anything more legitimate than a wiki article.
Put up or shut up
I also have yet to hear any solid proof that apes do not in fact fall into your own bullshit, apes are almost always rewarded during tests too.

>> No.1059342

>>1059326
so have parrots, Doesn't count for parrots though, people are too busy masturbating to apes when only a few fucking years ago they didn't even know they ate monkeys.

>> No.1059350

>>1059335
Lol u mad

>> No.1059381

The average chimp has aout the same intelligence level of an average 3 year old girl.

So no, not particulary intelligent conversations.

>> No.1059392

Can somebody explain me why so many people see the intelligence of more cognitively developed animals as such a tabu?