/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10577054]

At what do level do you think math becomes pointless wank?

[Anonymous No.10577068]

>>10577054
Immediately.
There is no such thing in nature as 2.

[Anonymous No.10577069]

for me personally, category theory. it's completely useless mental masturbation for my field (hard analysis). i recognize the utility of it for other areas of math and physics, but for me it's trash tier.

[Anonymous No.10577076]

Never.

Now sociology on the other hand.....

[Anonymous No.10577083]

>>10577054
Never. The value might decrease as it becomes more abstract, but you can never know how or when something will be of use.
The wave equation was abstract nonsense once, and even the most seemingly pointless mathematics serves society on a cultural level, far greater per dollar spent than modern art or sport.

[Anonymous No.10577086]

>>10577069
>i recognize the utility of it for other areas of math and physics
So how is it pointless?

[Anonymous No.10577087]

>>10577083
there was some maths thing that was discovered in ancient times if i remember that had no use at all until we started using computers

wish i could remember what it was

[Anonymous No.10577091]

>>10577054
Just noticed the earth is flat in that pic lmao

[Anonymous No.10577093]

>>10577054
Algebra is useful.

Calculus is already a pointless wank. The only real application of calculus is calculating the area of volume of curved shapes.

[Anonymous No.10577102]

The devil taught Eve how to do long division

[Anonymous No.10577105]

At the axiom level

[Anonymous No.10577106]

>>10577054
Everything has no objective point or purpose to it, and math is no exception.

[Anonymous No.10577112]

>>10577106
*tips fedora*

[Anonymous No.10577114]

>>10577068
Unironically this (yes really). You might say:
>I have 1 apple
>I am given another apple
>I now have 2 apples
But, that is still completely abstract. The idea of an "apple" is an artificial one - no two apples are identical when looked at on a smaller scale. So what exactly do we even define to be an apple? What we all unanimously accept to be an apple is just that particular type of fruit that meets certain criteria (colour, texture, shape, size, origin) but to say that there are 2 units of the same thing isn't correct. It's 2 units of an abstract thing that we call "apple". In fact, any macroscopic object is like this. No two cats are identical, no two trees, etc.
The only time the number "2" becomes cement is in atomic and subatomic physics, where 2 hydrogen atoms can be identical (if we aren't being pedantic and looking at energies of particles, positions in fields, etc).
But yeah, even when children learn to count from 1 to 10, it isn't cement, it's completely abstract. Unless of course the children are counting 1 neutron, 2 neutrons, ...

[Anonymous No.10577118]

>>10577106
Wrong. Learning objectivity is something baby learns at 4-6 months old (before that the baby thinks that the world is as he sees it himself currently). Before that, for example, baby will forget an item if he no longer sees it. Baby will assume his mother sees the same objects as him.

[Anonymous No.10577119]

>>10577112
I’m not wrong, faggot

[Anonymous No.10577122]

When it stops being useful as an application to other fields/subjects

[Anonymous No.10577126]

>>10577068
Obviously counting is an abstraction. Einstein.

[Anonymous No.10577130]

>>10577054
When you start plotting planes and volumes

[Anonymous No.10577135]

>>10577054
>Mandlebrot
Look how pretty it is, oooo, fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10577170]

>>10577054
For me personally when it stops applying to physics. Math is at its fundament a study of ratios. However not all ratios are present within our universe/existence. For me personally once it doesn't apply to the universe anymore it stops being useful and will be "pointless wank".

[Anonymous No.10577182]

>>10577170
Why did you put pointless wank in quotes?

[Anonymous No.10577193]

>>10577182
I wouldn't call it completely pointless but it's just that at that point the effort to "map" the mathematics just isn't worth it anymore since it will never provide tangible results in reality.

It's not completely useless due to that mathematics having a potential use in future simulations of potential universes different from ours.

[Anonymous No.10577599]

>>10577114
Those smaller scales probably only look more concrete because we are incapable of seeing the full picture at our higher scale of reality. They are likely just as diverse, but to us, they lose all diversity because they are being averaged out over the scale "distance". So what we think are hydrogen atoms, are really just very different "particles" that take on the same properties when observed at a "distance".

[Anonymous No.10577660]

>>10577076
NPC detected.

[Anonymous No.10577662]

>>10577182
wanks are never pointless ;)

[Anonymous No.10577665]

>>10577054
Anything at the level of theoretical physics or above

Though at least something like the large hardon collider gave us some real tangible benefits to society.

[Anonymous No.10577733]

>>10577599
Going by this, the number 2 is literally never not a complete abstraction

[Anonymous No.10577991]

>>10577093
>Calculus is already a pointless wank. The only real application of calculus is calculating the area of volume of curved shapes.
Calculus is integral to modern society, and it has been for at least 100 years. Not many needs to really understand it anymore because it is systematized to the point that it can be almost completely done by computers.

[Anonymous No.10578014]

>>10577091
Kek

[Anonymous No.10578030]

>>10577054
>At what do level do you think math becomes pointless wank
Everything above long-division.

[Anonymous No.10578038]

Anything above what I understand

[Anonymous No.10578047]

>>10577054
This is hard to answer when you insist reducing the complexity of math to one dimension. The simplest answer is that it seems there are huge advantages in doing pure math at all levels. We don't know what turns out to be useful, and we should be wary of throwing out stuff looks useless. Luckily, we mathematicians are not easily discouraged by this uncertainty as do it mainly for the beauty anyways. Just leave us alone and don't spread pathological views about a craft that evidently time after time eventually helps society in ways so powerful and deep it is hard to fully comprehend, even for us.

[Anonymous No.10578142]

>>10577054
The mathematician in me wants to say never, but.....

Transcendental number theory. It's really cool and the sheer difficulty of it intimidates me, but I sometimes wonder as to why.
For those much smarter than me, please redpill me on TNT.

[Anonymous No.10578183]

>>10577087
Probably someone in the history of binary.

[Anonymous No.10578240]

Whenever it's a very specific problem that is very complicated to solve but for which the tools to solve already exist and there is nothing gained from it (like from generalization or making the problem even simpler). Therefore, for instance, category theory is very very useful since it is influential to almost all mathematics. But solving a complicated integral as some challenge to prove other 4channers that you're smarter than them because you have a greater capacity at keeping many things in your mind, might be quite useless.

[Anonymous No.10578340]

>>10577118
Yeah so whats the objective point of learning that?

[Anonymous No.10578360]

>>10578142 >>10577054 >>10577069
Math with no known application yet is Intellectual Masturbation.

However nowadays there are lots of applications even very abstract fields like Differential Topology (in Astronomy) or Number theory (in Cryptography).

Stuff like Algebraic geometry can be applied in String Theory... Although String Theory is arguably also useless mental masturbation.

[Anonymous No.10578363]

Math with no known application yet is Intellectual Masturbation.

However nowadays there are lots of applications even for very abstract fields like Differential Topology (in Astronomy) or Number theory (in Cryptography).

Stuff like Algebraic geometry can be applied in String Theory... Although String Theory is arguably also useless mental masturbation.

[Anonymous No.10578412]

>>10578363
>Intellectual Masturbation
So guuuuuuuuud

Do you view art as merely intellectual masturbation too?

[Anonymous No.10578424]

>>10577170
>For me personally when it stops applying to physics.
Imagine doing quantum mechanics with a compass and straight edge.

[Anonymous No.10578493]

>>10577068
You're not an idealist? That's pretty cringe bro.

[Anonymous No.10578520]

>>10577093
If it doesn't require calculus (even if just to derive the equations) it probably isn't science.

[Anonymous No.10578577]

>>10577068
>>10577114
>>10577599
>>10577733
Mathematics, science, and everything else that humans have ever thought of are obviously abstractions, but that doesn't mean that they're pointless.
Right now, this interaction is possible with the help of abstractions. Our computers were built with the help of abstractions, as were the satellites that connect them. In fact, the language I am using in this instant to communicate ideas (themselves abstractions) is itself an abstraction!

[Anonymous No.10578587]

>>10577054
Engineer here, we will find a way to apply it. When you need to decrease the cost of producing personal lubricant by 37.8% you start resorting to all sorts of dark arts.

[Anonymous No.10578702]

everything above a bachelor (3 yrs) at a european university is worthless

[Anonymous No.10579587]

>>10577054
once you reach pointlessly abstract computations that serve no purpose in anyone's life

[Anonymous No.10579655]

>>10579587
>in anyone's life
So all computations are good then. Thanks, fren. I like computations too.

[Anonymous No.10579662]

>>10577054
SSS

[Anonymous No.10579967]

>>10577054
When without mathsists or scientists and then when within those when among specialists or asians