/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10554838]

do you stop reading a book if you notice a mistake in that book? for example i was reading an essay of francisco j. ayala "evolution of life: three research frontiers" and he suggested that only humans have minds and now im baffled. i would be in an information bubble if i read people only i agree with...

[Anonymous No.10554848]

>>10554838
>suggested that only humans have minds
You know exactly what he meant. Fuck off to >>>/reddit/

[Anonymous No.10554938]

>>10554848
not really
im pretty autistic
also reddit is probably not for mildly autistic people like me

[Anonymous No.10555571]

bump

[Anonymous No.10555574]

>>10554838
Minds do not exist.

[Anonymous No.10555649]

>>10554838
>someone made a simple claim without hemming and hawing and hedging and handwringing
Oh boo hoo. Yeah, maybe your dog has some kind of mind, maybe a gorilla does, or the computer player in your viidya. But they're fucking stupid, they can't into grammar or arithmetic or the concept of object permanence or 99% of things expected of intelligent life 99% of the time, so until some actual evidence comes up against it we're going to use "mind" to mean a human mind because it's so completely unique. Insert this as a footnote in every text ever where "mind" is used in a way that gives you dumbass feels

[Anonymous No.10555657]

>>10554838
there are many philosophy books and articles i've read that i had to stop reading when they started talking about quantum mechanics and got it totally wrong. philosophers are fucking brainlets 99% of the time

[Anonymous No.10555666]

>>10555649
They have their own number sense. And why would you expect them to into human grammar? Can you into dog grammar? Didn't think so.

[Anonymous No.10555669]

>>10555666
>its all relative
>we're all equal
>EVEN animals
You'll get your wakeup call someday.

[Anonymous No.10555671]

>>10554838
he's right if, by mind, he means self-awareness. animals can't pass the gom jabbar test for a reason

[Anonymous No.10555702]

>>10554838
>>10555666
Considering you don't have a theory of mind, theres a good chance you're on the spectrum

[Anonymous No.10555712]

>>10555671
Is there a real life equivalent to the gom jabbar test?

[Anonymous No.10555714]

>>10555574
okay so there is a brain only?

[Anonymous No.10555743]

>>10555671
they can pass mirror test tho

[Anonymous No.10555776]

>>10555743
the problem with the mirror test is that all self-aware creatures will pass it, but not all creatures that pass it are self-aware

i have no citation for this, but there is no proof either way and i'm sure i can find some fallacy pointing out how fallacious it is to extrapolate "we are self-aware and we can pass it therefore any species that passes it is self-aware"

>>10555712
not really, although the general idea is that humans can use awareness to override instinct while an animal would act with reason, on instinct alone

i mean psychology is necessarily a pseudo-science so you really aren't going to get any empirical answers here

[Anonymous No.10555782]

>>10555776
without reason* oops

[Anonymous No.10556776]

>>10555776
so why can animals plan and cooperate and even commit suicide?

[Anonymous No.10556794]

>>10555712
Yes, every painful initiation ritual in the world.

[Anonymous No.10556917]

>>10555671
>gom jabbar test
/sci-fi/->

[Anonymous No.10556935]

>>10555776
>the problem with the mirror test is that all self-aware creatures will pass it

If a creature recognizes it has been marked, but doesn't give a fuck, it fails the test.

[Anonymous No.10556962]

I read Brian Greene's Elegant Universe or whatever and it contain a few mistakes like relativistic mass and light slowing down in matter. I still continued reading it though.

[Anonymous No.10557056]

>>10556962
how do you know there are no more mistakes you couldnt recognize?

[Anonymous No.10557073]

>>10556776
A penguin walking thousands of miles to its death “”on purpose”” is not the same as some guy killing himself with a shotgun

>>10556917
The topic of this thread is pseudoscience where basically anything goes

>>10556935
And?

[Anonymous No.10557472]

>>10554838
>only humans have minds
That's not a mistake, that's a fundamental disconnect from reality. Considering the topic he's writing about, it'd be tempted to assume he doesn't know what he's talking about at all.

[Anonymous No.10557676]

>>10557472
this
also learn english

[Anonymous No.10557934]

>>10557073
There was a case of a bear being used for bile production in China escaping its cage, killings its cub, and then killing itself.

[Anonymous No.10557948]

>>10555649
All life is intelligent, even bacteria and mobile phones. “Intelligence” does not mean what you think it means.

[Anonymous No.10557954]

>>10555671
Wrong. All animals are self-aware.

>>10555776
Mirror test is irrelevant pseudoscience.

[Anonymous No.10557957]

>>10557934
;_;
fucking chinks

[Anonymous No.10557963]

>>10557073
>A penguin walking thousands of miles to its death “”on purpose”” is not the same as some guy killing himself with a shotgun

Yes it is. Undertaking a task you are aware will result in your death is suicide by definition.

[Anonymous No.10557981]

>>10557934
sorry but an anecdote about a bear in china isnt proof that animals are self-aware

>>10557954
>All animals are self-aware.
>Mirror test is irrelevant pseudoscience
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness

You are wrong on all accounts. Also any discussion of this topic is going to necessarily revolve around pseudoscience, so it's entirely redundant to even mention it.

[Anonymous No.10557998]

>>10557954
>>10557963
Also I'm fully expecting a retarded semantic argument in spite of the fact that there is no known test for self-awareness and there is not even a remote consensus on a single animal being self-aware other than humans

[Anonymous No.10558006]

>>10557954
>Wrong. All animals are self-aware.
even annelids? how do you know?

[Anonymous No.10558010]

>>10557981
>All animals are self-aware.

Yep. They’d be unable to walk if they weren’t.

>Mirror test is irrelevant pseudoscience

Yep.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_consciousness

Congrats on linking a Wikipedia article for no reason. Ants can pass a mirror test but not most mammals. That alone renders it a joke, from which no conclusions can be made.

>You are wrong on all accounts.

Nothing you said or cited refuted any of my claims, so, uh.....nope. Try again.

[Anonymous No.10558024]

>>10557934
Bile production?

[Anonymous No.10558027]

>>10557998
>Also I'm fully expecting a retarded semantic argument

No idea what you’re talking about.

>in spite of the fact that there is no known test for self-awareness

Well in hospitals they just poke people and try and communicate to determine the level of awareness or provoke it. Works pretty well.

>and there is not even a remote consensus on a single animal being self-aware other than humans

That’s not true at all. It’s easy to determine if a gopher is aware. If it’s not reacting to you, it’s probably not aware, so poke it to wake it up.

[Anonymous No.10558038]

>>10558006
>even annelids?

They have brains and move about, right? I think even Box Jellyfish are aware.

>how do you know?

They have neurons and aren’t sleeping their whole lives.

[Anonymous No.10558073]

>>10558038
but this does not mean that they are self-aware

[Anonymous No.10558089]

>>10558073
>but this does not mean that they are self-aware

What do you think “self-aware’ even means?

[Anonymous No.10558165]

>>10558089
the same thing as self-conscious?

[Anonymous No.10558175]

>>10558165
What’s that mean? Bunch of nonsense terms. I’m only talking about experiencing subjective awareness.

[Anonymous No.10558244]

>>10558024
Bear bile is an ingredient in many traditional Chinese "medicines".

[Anonymous No.10558278]

>>10558010
>>10558027
>Yep. They’d be unable to walk if they weren’t.
God damn you are fucking retarded
>the capacity for introspection and the ability to reconcile oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals
is not necessary for walking, dumbfuck

Self-awareness =/= awareness, sentience

Completely different concepts you dumb fucking retard, kill yourself

>Mirror test is irrelevant pseudoscience
>Yep.
I don't even know why you brought this up to begin with. My original point before your dumbass ever replied to me was literally that the mirror test DOESN'T prove self-awareness.

>Ants can pass a mirror test but not most mammals. That alone renders it a joke, from which no conclusions can be made.
You are so fucking retarded it's unbelievable. Can you read? That's literally MY point here >>10555776

>You are wrong on all accounts.
Sure I did, you just can't read (which I just proved).

>No idea what you’re talking about.
>durr you need self-awareness to walk
>durr i don't know what self-awareness is so i will just use my own retarded definition that is incongruent with any academic definition

>That’s not true at all. It’s easy to determine if a gopher is aware. If it’s not reacting to you, it’s probably not aware, so poke it to wake it up.
>aware
Jesus fucking christ dude kill yourself, where did I ever say there weren't any "aware" animals?

>determine the level of awareness or provoke it
pic related

>>10558089
>what do you think "self-aware" even means
>being so retarded that you can't just look up the definition

>>>10558175
>durr bunch of non-sense terms im only talking about experience subjective awareness
yep, confusing "sentience" with "self-awareness" like a true dumbfuck

>Sentience: the ability to be aware (feel, perceive, or be conscious) of one's surroundings or to have subjective experiences.

[Anonymous No.10558311]

>>10558278
You’re a very angry person. I hope you find love one day.

[Anonymous No.10558319]

>>10558278
what can prove self-awareness?