/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10551407]

Anyone else thinks modern society is a lot more toxic towards geniuses?

I unironically think there is a lot of untapped potential among NEETs and that they could do great feats in some other environment, but today you have mediocre "normies" everywhere that collectively bully out any excentrics. That's why everything today is mediocre, plain and boring, from science to entertainment.

[Anonymous No.10551426]

>>10551407
Yes, there is bullying of smart people sometimes
No, NEETs are not smart
You find science boring because you have no talent for it

[Anonymous No.10551428]

>>10551407
t. autist

[Anonymous No.10551442]

>>10551407
"People" that have a good IQ but then do nothing with it and leech off of their parents will never be geniuses.
All the people that have average or low IQ but actually go out there and make an impact in the world will ALWAYS be infinitely more valuable than you are.

[Anonymous No.10551490]

>>10551442
>"People" that have a good IQ but then do nothing with it and leech off of their parents will never be geniuses
But how did they get there in the first plc? I don't think any of them wanted to end up in a place like this, wishing to be unemployed living at their parents when they are grownups. There is something in society that makes them resign from life, more than ever before.

[Anonymous No.10551506]

>>10551407
some corners of academia have evolved to selectively promote mediocrity, it's true. and the US system is essentially anti-intellectual. but most of the people on this board are not serious thinkers and do not deserve a place among them.

[Anonymous No.10551532]

>>10551442
There’s nothing impressive about making an impact on the world. It’s what people with easy, normal lives end up doing naturally.

[Anonymous No.10551776]

>>10551407
Geniuses always find their way.

[Anonymous No.10551783]

>>10551407
>toxic towards geniuses?

[Anonymous No.10551814]

>>10551776
Con artists do, geniuses don't.

[Anonymous No.10551823]

>>10551783
I have no idea what's going on in the image.

[Anonymous No.10551826]

>>10551442
aw does this topic strike a nerve, 110 IQ overachiever? we're talking about potential, so "value" isn't the issue

[Anonymous No.10551828]

>>10551783
Shut up you disgusting schizo

[Anonymous No.10551830]

absolutely. the school system caters to the lowest common denominator. academia selects for pawns. actual geniuses either grit their teeth and bear it or get left by the wayside

[Anonymous No.10551869]

>>10551407
Society has always jerked off the more talented massively. You're retarded if you think there is any discrimination towards smart people. You being autistic sperg without friends isn't because you're smart. Bullying happens to dumb people just the same or worse. Your mistake is assuming that talent gives you some innate right to go through life if luxury relying on it alone.
>>10551830
Retard. There are so many countries running so many gifted programs and math/science competitions, or journalists looking for yet another genius kid to hype up, or even just the amount of raw possibility a middle income person has.

[Anonymous No.10551873]

>>10551442
t. Neurotic midwit

[Anonymous No.10551889]

>>10551869
the participants at those competitions as well as the subject of media hype are always academic achievers, a true genius only gains recognition after creating or discovering something important

[Anonymous No.10551902]

>>10551889
Then he can freely create whatever since basically compared to previous times middle income leaves you enough time for just about any hobby. I mean you can hardly complain when your geniuses are in a state of superposition between genius and retard until making some breakthrough, and completely unable to use their genius for anything else. In reality the big inventors were generally academics or something much closer to an academic than to invisible being materializing after a discovery.

[Anonymous No.10551904]

>>10551869
The geniuses you talking about are basically "beep boop I follow what I learned but I have no creativity to come up with something that hasn't been established yet" "Look at me I excell at this thing everyone already knows about"

People that want to astray the beaten path and find new land are not encouraged today.

[Anonymous No.10551911]

>>10551442
I can take the drugs required to damage my brain and start shitting across sidewalks, smashing windows and setting buildings on fire and that would be "making an impact".

[Anonymous No.10551924]

>>10551407
Yes, we live in a society. Geniuses rise up.

[Anonymous No.10551959]

>>10551924
BOTTOM TEXT

[Anonymous No.10551997]

>>10551902
k but your point was that society incentivizes geniuses enough that they'll succeed, I'm saying those incentives are directed at the same people who already succeeded academically. the whole point is that the academic system often doesn't work for geniuses

[Anonymous No.10552002]

>>10551407
holy autism!

[Anonymous No.10552019]

>>10551830
of course lmao if you are actually smart you don't need school to cater to you because it's piss easy, they should definitely offer a bit more in terms of accelerated learning programs so people like me can save a couple years but muh self proclaimed underachiever held back by the system is some balonie

[Anonymous No.10552020]

>>10551407
Just read about Chris Lagan's father.
You'll see his hatred and characteristics in most midwits even though they won't be violent.

[Anonymous No.10552026]

>>10551426
Well whaddya know. FPBP?

NEETs are just NEETs. That's it. Potential exists in everyone, that doesn't mean anything at all. Being an oldfag I kinda get where people like the OP are coming from. I mean, I used to be a teen indoctrinated by movies and weebio flicks decades ago, thinking I had a had "potential", that I could've been a hero if, this and that etc. just happened.

Doesn't work like that.

Success, intellectual achievements etc, are ultimately rather binary in nature. You either produce something, or you don't. Festering with no aim or purpose is just a waste of time and not only doesn't develop you or your skills, it actually puts you back because every moment you spend underachieving, your brain moves closer to depression, insanity, and generally loses whatever focus it once had.

So sitting down doing nothing is not potential. You're just making excuses for wasting time. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is results. Produce them, or don't. Those are what define your worth. Not some transparent excuse for being a lazy bum like "potential".

[Anonymous No.10552064]

>>10552026
You're just rambling about your value judgements and redefining "potential" to align with them, not actually saying something insightful about op's question. Op may be right or wrong but you care too little about impartial truth and too much about other people's opinions of themselves to even consider the question.

[Anonymous No.10552068]

If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?

[Anonymous No.10552077]

>>10552068
I hate this meme.

[Anonymous No.10552079]

>>10552026
No one asked for $10 motivational speeches. This is an utterly worthless post.

[Anonymous No.10552082]

>>10552068
because getting rich isn't worth the effort I can just fuck around and do fuck all living off student loans maybe when those stop ill bother

[Anonymous No.10552084]

>>10552077
It’s not a meme in the least. Capitalism highly favors people who are even slightly above average in intelligence and out current system makes it easy for people to generate wealth once you apply some know how.

[Anonymous No.10552108]

>>10551407
>Anyone else thinks modern society is a lot more toxic towards geniuses?
Yes, more or less >>10551506
Academia selects for skilled adherence to the current paradigm, not for genius work that breaks the paradigm.
NEETs are usually wastes of space. If you are a genius you will probably do something else than NEET.

Another perspective is that genius fails 99% of the time, and does not produce consistent outcomes.

[Anonymous No.10552117]

>>10552019
well the problem I experienced is that while the teachers take 20 minutes to explain something I could've learned in 5 my mind wanders off to something more interesting and then I come back to reality to find I'm behind everyone else, and in subjects where new material is dependent on previous material like math this means you have to backtrack and catch up or you're hosed
private tutors can solve this pretty easily but not everyone has time and money for that

[Anonymous No.10552118]

>>10552079
What part of that was motivational?

The point is really simple: Potential doesn't mean shit, so spending time guestimating how much and what NEET's could accomplish with what kind of support is pointless when ultimately it comes down to results. Either people produce something of value or they don't, and NEETs don't. Case closed.

>>10552064
I've spent 20 years considering the question, arriving to the simple conclusion that it's a waste of time. Much like criticizing someone else's post for not producing value, while producing no value of your own either.

[Anonymous No.10552123]

>>10552118
you've spent 20 years mulling over your insecurity about having low potential in spite of using it to its fullest

[Anonymous No.10552130]

>>10551407
NEETs aren't smart.

Next.

[Anonymous No.10552131]

>>10551869
Society loves the above average, those who give the same answers like everybody else, only faster. It hates the true genius.

Einstein worked his theory while working another job.

Tesla died alone and childess.

Galileo spent his later life in house arrest.

Turing got executed.

Musk got almost killed in school.

Zuckerberg was an outcast before he got rich.

etc. People hate the genius.

[Anonymous No.10552137]

>>10551826
whatever potential they had is already long gone from years of atrophy from vidya and shitposting
sorry

[Anonymous No.10552139]

The true geniuses are forgotten and marginal, only gays, sluts and other degenerates normalfags are exalted. Science has died a long time ago, what I am we have been scientistic, progressive, driven by the Zionist media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBgIBF9Y6PE

[Anonymous No.10552144]

>>10552137
even if that's true, the argument is more about their original potential

[Anonymous No.10552145]

>>10552026
Based and practical-pilled

[Anonymous No.10552147]

As someone who went to a magnet school for gifted high-school students, this thread makes me laugh.

If you have talent, you will always be noticed, and you will always rise to the top. All it takes is one recommendation, one suggestion for an examination, and the rest is history.
>>10551869
Absolutely this.

[Anonymous No.10552152]

>>10552118
>I've spent 20 years considering the question, arriving to the simple conclusion that it's a waste of time
You can feel that way but no one who doesn't already share your opinion cares and it's not relevant to actually answering op's question. Trying to /thread and stop people from discussing what is true because you don't like the attitudes that might result from the answer is the domain of critical theory pseuds and I wish you would stop shitting up the science board like that.

[Anonymous No.10552153]

>>10551904
Gifted program admittance is determined by IQ alone. If you weren't scouted out, you were never a genius.

[Anonymous No.10552155]

>>10552131
Zuckerberg is not a genius, he happened to be the first jew in the social media market

[Anonymous No.10552160]

>>10551407
Yes. I've actually thought a lot about this specific topic and here's what I've came up over hundreds of hours spent thinking about this.

>Primates evolve speech before (human-like) consciousness
>There isn't a regulator for what they express through speech in their brain, so they proceed to always express their exact thoughts as they express themselves with zero deception through body language
>One manages to somehow evolve deception and the ability to put himself in the shoes of others
>Suddenly, this guy can emulate alpha males flawlessly and moreover, claim absurd bullshit up to creating an entire religion around himself, and everyone will believe him because they lack the projection (consciousness) to realize that the primate in front of them might be lying
>He now has absolute access to every female in the tribe, rapidly passing his mutated genes to future conscious primates
>The next generation now has the ability to project themselves into the shoes of someone else and to deceive to an extent, making past deception inefficient and outdated
>One of them evolves just a bit further, doubling down on his deception
>Repeat up until today, where deception like fake niceness (gifting flowers, reciting poems, shit like that) is no longer effective and is an antique of the past generations
>Following the above model, females have very likely evolved guards against deception when it comes to reproduction
>As deception correlates with intelligence, intelligent people trigger those guards and they come out as manipulative
>As females get triggered by those people, male reproductive strategy shifts and people stop trying hard to be smart to stop looking uncool
>A culture evolves around that, where smart people are ostracized while mediocrity is promoted and reinforced by female sexual preference being significantly tilted towards dumb "but honest" males
>Other characteristics of honesty become very attractive, ones you supposedly cannot fake, like confidence

[Anonymous No.10552164]

>>10552118
you've spent 20 years mulling over your insecurity about having low potential

[Anonymous No.10552166]

>>10552153
what percentage of significant scientists went to those programs?

[Anonymous No.10552168]

>ITT: low IQ NEETs justifying their failures and deluding themselves

accept your genetic predisposition towards being mediocre and you'll be much happier. genuine, albeit troubled genius tends to gravitate to success with the aid of gifted education programs, gifted academies, and the various support networks that come with these. of course, there's exceptions, but most of you aren't included.

[Anonymous No.10552169]

>>10552153
This isn't true for all schools. An F in one class I had a beef with the teacher in precluded my entrance in middle school. The psychologist who administered my test said I had the highest score she ever recorded. I wasn't able to join the club because of one single class.

[Anonymous No.10552172]

>>10552155
Indeed, he is still getting mocked, as you've just proven.

[Anonymous No.10552174]

>>10552168
Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas.

[Anonymous No.10552177]

>>10552169
That's extremely unusual. Did you actually see your score?

[Anonymous No.10552194]

>>10552160
>>Repeat up until today, where deception like fake niceness (gifting flowers, reciting poems, shit like that) is no longer effective and is an antique of the past generations
i don't think this is actually true. manipulation just no longer takes those cliche forms, it still exists

[Anonymous No.10552203]

>>10552177
160.

[Anonymous No.10552220]

>>10552172
omg he's overcome so much

[Anonymous No.10552223]

>>10552194
>manipulation just no longer takes those cliche forms, it still exists
Exactly, which is why females are increasingly seeking confident males as confidence is a display of honesty, not a fake persona. You will also hear almost every single one of them put honesty as one of the highest values a man can have. This is because there's an inverse function acting on their mating preferences that's causing them to seriously filter against dishonesty, and that inverse function is the ever-increasing ability of males to be dishonest and fake. At no point in our history was there an entire multi-million member worldwide cult built around abusing psychology to attract females, or the thing we tend to call "PUA".

Also I didn't try to imply that they have successfully filtered dishonesty, quite the contrary, I was trying to imply that it is ever-increasing as it becomes harder and harder to spread your genes in the modern world, requiring further manipulation and social logic than it has ever before, and I was about to get there but the 2000 letter post limit stopped me from going further so I just left it as it is.

[Anonymous No.10552230]

>>10552160
why is it that no one today can feign the traits of the alpha anymore? by your theory we've been selected specifically for that ability for millions of years

[Anonymous No.10552281]

>>10552230
>why is it that no one today can feign the traits of the alpha anymore?
Perfect question. You're talking about the macho culture of the past century that suddenly disappeared in the last decade and even became repulsive to an extent. Fighting some weak male and displaying your dominance over him got every girl wet 20 years ago, now all it will get you is "uhh that guy scares me lets just go somewhere else". Same with "manly hobbies" like fishing or DYI that are considered something that boring losers do nowadays.
In fact it was so oversaturated and presented through pretend-macho betas that feminists came up with "toxic masculinity" to show their repulsion against those people.

Also it isn't hard to feign the traits of the alpha anymore, it's just that females aren't looking for the traditional definition of alphas anymore. They are looking for alphas who are absolutely obviously not faking it because they read online or in a self-help book that they should act aggressive and force their beta ass into MMA or fitness, and such alphas are those that are very obviously displaying results of their alpha characteristics, like having a huge social circle or being a leader with followers, things that betas do not do and are obviously not a fake persona as they're actually real results.

[Anonymous No.10552307]

>>10552117
>well the problem I experienced is that while the teachers take 20 minutes to explain something
true
>I could've learned in 5
true and I did
>my mind wanders off to something more interesting
yep same which wasn't a problem because I already got it
>then I come back to reality to find I'm behind everyone else
wait what that never happened to me ever you just said it was so easy for you too bro?
>and in subjects where new material is dependent on previous material like math this means you have to backtrack and catch up or you're hosed
wait wtf why would I be behind I could've finished the book for the whole year in like the first week I didn't need the teacher to explain shit
>private tutors can solve this pretty easily but not everyone has time and money for that
private tutors? you need private tutors to not struggle in the pisstake that is high school and you think it was because you were TOO SMART?
this entire post is just fucking cope
when the scenario of them explaining shit for ages happened in highschool it was always just them repeating the basic premise over and over expanding with more and more examples until the ball finally dropped for brainlets like u
like there is pretty much nothing you learn in highschool math or any subject really where you could even stretch the explanation to the point where 5 mins in the concept still isn't apparent to actually intelligent people (130+ iq)
you're just not as smart as you think you are, maybe you are of above average intelligence but with deliberating ADD or something idk but there is nothing remarkable about your intellect that's for sure

[Anonymous No.10552333]

>>10552307
you clearly don't share my experience at all and made that up, and while it may be that sometimes they explain something quickly and then build on it that's usually not the case, they start with some kind of introduction, ease into it, make sure everyone's caught up, do some examples, answer questions. I was usually gone in step 1 up until recent years
also you sound mad as fuck, you're probably just another average IQ subhuman defending "merit based intelligence" in this thread

[Anonymous No.10552373]

>>10552333
cope
name one concrete example of a concept that you didn't understand because you dozed off while the teacher was explaining?
in fact thinking back I don't think there even was a scenario in high school where it'd even matter because everything would also be in the book anyways

[Anonymous No.10552409]

>>10552333
If the material is so easy and you can understand it so quickly, why can't you learn it without the teacher?

[Anonymous No.10552441]

>>10551407
I know what you mean. I was tested to have a 130+ IQ as a child but I started failing classes in high school because my normie teachers couldn't understand me. Now I work at a fast food restaurant and live with my parents.

[Anonymous No.10552442]

>>10551407
It's toxic toward everyone. The generation of people that had a sense of the meaning of scouting for new talent, is dead.

[Anonymous No.10552456]

>>10552117
t. Delusional brainlet who can't read

[Anonymous No.10552460]

>>10552441
130 IQ as a child translates to about 115 as an adult. You're not that intelligent. Even 130 is still within midwit range.

[Anonymous No.10552491]

>>10552131
Notice how non of these geniuses are not NEETs? Even Einstein who didn't really like academia (cut class copied etc) is still universally known and appreciated because he put his genius to work and contributed something.

>Tesla died alone and childless
His own god damn fault. Society fucking loved Tesla. He was a sensational genius and his opinion was sought after on many subjects other than science. Only reason why he was maximum incel is because no woman lived up to his expectations (he was also smart enough not to fuck with women just because he was horny)

>Galileo
Tragic here. Too bad we don't live in the dark ages anymore and science is taken seriously

>Turing
Tragic here. They had to kill em off because "muh gays", just like many people on this board would prefer science didn't come from "muh shitskins" or "muh wehmen"

>Musk
I don't know how you can argue society hates this man. Elites may dislike the disruption he causes, but he is loved by the masses.

>Zuckerberg
He is not a genius, he is a conman that has made a fortune by assimilating people into the big data machine of the military industrial complex.

We're not in the dark ages anymore and society has been very progressive in not discriminating against scientist for anything other than their science. I'd say real genius that bears fruit is valued more in modern society than it ever has been.

[Anonymous No.10552504]

>>10552491
>lived up to his expectations
Fuck, it's happening.

[Anonymous No.10552508]

>>10552160
>Smart people are all manipulative liars

my sides

[Anonymous No.10552515]

>>10552460
you write that like you know anything about what you're talking about. You're a fucking retard bro. Childhood estimates are said to be in general inaccurate, meaning he could have gotten higher as well. Likely he got a bit lower because he allowed his brain to rot with years of bad habits.

[Anonymous No.10552517]

>>10552333
>>10552307

>Staying awake in highschool classes
Brainlets detected

[Anonymous No.10552527]

Seems to be true to an extent.

http://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html

[Anonymous No.10552528]

>>10552460
For future reference, what IQ am I supposed to have to be a genius that was torched by society and when am I supposed to take the test that proves it?

[Anonymous No.10552531]

We have 8 billion people. Why don't we have a single Einstein?

[Anonymous No.10552539]

>>10552504
He just wanted a woman that was pure and exhibited the divine femininity that has pushed great men to achieve great things throughout all of history.

[Anonymous No.10552550]

>>10552527
>http://polymatharchives.blogspot.com/2015/01/the-inappropriately-excluded.html
He is bad at statistics, not smart. Even in the comments someone ran simulation of several models where intelligence needs cutoff for position and has no correlation otherwise, and where intelligence is linearly positively correlated with academic success and in both of those similar distribution of IQ was achieved.

Welcome to wordy argument based of hastily scrambled false premise dying to a bit of math.

[Anonymous No.10552573]

>>10552531
Because the amount of information I can aggregate makes me effectively god from every human reference frame, even my own. I used to get reality dysphoria attacks in my late teens, because I could tell that what was possible in engineered reality was far more ridiculous than all the shit I saw in comic books and superhero movies.

Our reality CONTAINS fiction.

Think about that.

[Anonymous No.10552589]

>>10552550
You're right.

[Anonymous No.10552664]

This board's intense fetishizing of IQ is embarrassing sometimes.

[Anonymous No.10553297]

>>10551442
>making an impact for the worse out of ignorance is better than not intervening

[Anonymous No.10553590]

>>10551407
Haha I get it, the brainlet is infinitely dense! HAhaha!

[Anonymous No.10553772]

>>10552026
>Potential exists in everyone
This is one of those things everyone agrees with because it sounds good not because it’s true.

[Anonymous No.10553814]

Its toxic towards everyone but its fixing itself. I genuinely think the last 20 years have been a terrible time to be alive. Just at the cusp of greatness. I wish i was born in 2030.

[Anonymous No.10553825]

>>10553772
who doesn't have potential to something good in this world?

[Anonymous No.10553834]

>>10551783
>not even wrong

[Anonymous No.10554226]

>>10552491
>Notice how non of these geniuses are not NEETs?

No I didn't. That is a complete surprise to me now that you point it out.

Of course we only know those who were able to overcome the society's resistance, not those who gave up and ended up working menial jobs or worse.

>Tragic here. Too bad we don't live in the dark ages anymore and science is taken seriously

Nobody takes science seriously, especially if it goes against established truths.

>I don't know how you can argue society hates this man. Elites may dislike the disruption he causes, but he is loved by the masses.

Now when he's wealthy. The children in school almost killed him how much they hated him.

>He is not a genius, he is a conman that has made a fortune by assimilating people into the big data machine of the military industrial complex.

No idea what that even means.

>We're not in the dark ages anymore and society has been very progressive in not discriminating against scientist for anything other than their science. I'd say real genius that bears fruit is valued more in modern society than it ever has been.

Science has decayed to the point where people are valued for giving expected results and nothing else. Most fields are not really distinguishable from pseudoscience anymore. The latest fad in the medical research is poop transplants.

[Anonymous No.10554458]

>>10552077
it is not a meme. Go work for renaissance technologies, Jane Street, or DE Shaw if you're so smart.
Oh wait, that's right, you aren't.

[Anonymous No.10554459]

>>10552220
we're not saying that, what we are saying is that his life was a perfect storm of talent, privilege, and luck, all three of which were required to place him where he is today.

[Anonymous No.10554467]

>>10552160
manipulation as a successful strategy is alive and well. See: PUA and psychopaths.

[Anonymous No.10554469]

>>10552230
>is it that no one today can feign the traits of the alpha anymore?
they can.

[Anonymous No.10554472]

>>10552307
>then I come back to reality to find I'm behind everyone else
m-maybe he was talking about college?

[Anonymous No.10554478]

>>10552491
>musk good zuck bad
They are very very very similar, in intelligence, family pedigree, and even disposition. The only difference is media optics, which you have fallen for hook line and sinker.

[Anonymous No.10554479]

>>10552573
so time machines and FTL are possible?

[Anonymous No.10554494]

>>10553772
it is true. See: Jaime Escalante. He taught poor latinos calculus and got virtually all of them to pass. No, it isn't IMO or something more prestigious, but its definitely more than they could have done otherwise. Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_Polg%C3%A1r#Books_and_films_about_Polg%C3%A1r

[Anonymous No.10554500]

>>10554458
They look for a resume, not IQ score. You can be incredibly smart, even knowledgeable but if you don't have anything to back it up, they simply do not care.

[Anonymous No.10554508]

>>10554467
>manipulation as a successful strategy is alive and well. See: PUA and psychopaths.
see: >>10552223

[Anonymous No.10554556]

>>10553772
He didn't say everyone has a lot of potential, but generally most people can do something helpful

[Anonymous No.10554570]

>>10551407
This is actually very accurate. Many scientists and mathematicians have written about this, such as Grothendieck.
Academia in general will praise you for being smart, but the smartest academics will be resented.
People build a lot of resentment towards someone who comes in and outshines them, especially when their pride is tied to their intellect.

[Anonymous No.10554615]

>>10554478
>Musk
>Teaches himself astrophysics and rocket
science
>Teaches himself programming
>Teaches himself pretty much everything
>Creates physical products to sell to people
>Creates useful software like maps and online banking
>Does things ethically or leaves company because he is autistic and is implementing his vision

>Zuck
>Smokes meat
>Creates useful social networking software
>Shifts the paradigm of social media to the unethical fuck-fest that it is today

You could argue that Zuck is more creative for figuring out how to make everyone voluntarily give their personal away, but don't pretend like these two are intellectual equals.

>"U R a sheeple of the modern media"
I actually read Musk's biography and formed my opion of Zuck based on what I know about ethics and technology. If you were capable of critical thought you would realize that being a contrarian is as bad as blindly following the media.

[Anonymous No.10554620]

>>10554472
In either case, if an instructor is really going that slow and you fail the class because of it you're an ADD riddled brainlet

[Anonymous No.10554630]

>>10554500
then go to triplebyte or complete Kaggle competitions or something.

>>10554570
>Grothendieck
funny considering how even he himself considered himself to be a comparatively slow thinker:
>Since then I’ve had the chance, in the world of mathematics that bid me welcome, to meet quite a number of people, both among my “elders” and among young people in my general age group, who were much more brilliant, much more “gifted” than I was. I admired the facility with which they picked up, as if at play, new ideas, juggling them as if familiar with them from the cradle — while for myself I felt clumsy, even oafish, wandering painfully up an arduous track, like a dumb ox faced with an amorphous mountain of things that I had to learn (so I was assured), things I felt incapable of understanding the essentials or following through to the end. Indeed, there was little about me that identified the kind of bright student who wins at prestigious competitions or assimilates, almost by sleight of hand, the most forbidding subjects. In fact, most of these comrades who I gauged to be more brilliant than I have gone on to become distinguished mathematicians. Still, from the perspective of 30 or 35 years, I can state that their imprint upon the mathematics of our time has not been very profound. They’ve all done things, often beautiful things, in a context that was already set out before them, which they had no inclination to disturb. Without being aware of it, they’ve remained prisoners of those invisible and despotic circles which delimit the universe of a certain milieu in a given era. To have broken these bounds they would have had to rediscover in themselves that capability which was their birth-right, as it was mine: the capacity to be alone.

[Anonymous No.10554639]

>>10551442
>the value of your existence and what determines your intelligence or status as a genius is determined by others

>3 men = tiger

[Anonymous No.10554671]

>>10552084
It also favors the highly conscientious, and agreeable. People who are neither but are intelligent have a small chance at great success as an entrepreneur and a large chance of failure

[Anonymous No.10554691]

>>10554615
>Musk
>teaches himself programming at an early age
>self teaches whatever subjects are relevant to his business (fintech, rocketry, battery chemistry)

>Zuck
>teaches himself programming at an early age
>gets taught even more programming via a private tutor (David Newman)
>self teaches/pays people to teach him whatever subjects are relevant to keeping and growing his business (business, marketing, management, acting normal)

I will admit that Musk is a more public visionary than Zuck, but if you think this is because Musk is inherently a "better person" than Zuck and not because his companies' long term goals are more feasible to market than Facebook's, you need to take a step back and realize that seeking first-mover control over space transport, batteries, and neural implants and seeking control of social data are in fact quite similar.

>I actually read Musk's biography and formed my opion of Zuck based on what I know about ethics and technology. If you were capable of critical thought you would realize that being a contrarian is as bad as blindly following the media.
Well biographers tend to be biased, and the fact that you read a biased source on one person and used your own judgement on another says at least a little bit, although I will agree that I was quick to box you in to the "sheep" category.

If we're speaking intellectually, then just reading the "early years" portion of his wikipedia article should be enough. Of course, he's no Bill Gates (man is an actual genius), but he certainly isn't some dumb kid who lucked into facebook.

If we're talking morally, then it's plainly obvious that SpaceX, Tesla, and SolarCity are all ethically superior to facebook. However, this does not make Musk a better person than Zuckerberg. It's simply that Musk leverages the fact that his companies are visionary and their long term goals bring forth that spark of wonder in almost all.

[Anonymous No.10554697]

>>10554671
A large part of the problem is kids being intentionally raised in perfectly good traditional ways that just don't prepare them to excel in capitalist society.

I'll always remember the time I turned down my first job because another applicant was desperate for the position. I told my Christian parents he needed it more than I did and they hit the roof. Furious. The test turned out very different to the study material when it came to my upbringing and I'm sure that's very common with millenials. Whereas lesser able kids with a love of money and high goals ended up pretty successful. Zoomers seems to be better off with this.

[Anonymous No.10554705]

>>10552307
personality aspects and lack of discipline can make this happen independant of intelligence, stubborness too. What hes describing is common for people with those traits, and if your reacting so violently to them you are likely placing 100% of your success in your intelligence and not attributing how easily you can work within a set structure or your orderliness. That alone is more important in how education is structured than intelligence up untill you are BA+, and if you lack the personality traits or worse, you are disorderly or disagreeable you are pretty much fucked regardless of iq.

[Anonymous No.10554716]

>>10554697
>Zoomers seems to be better off with this.
they're less ethical?

[Anonymous No.10554742]

>>10552084
Capitalism/individualism favors the somewhat above average. It despises tose who are way too much above average, as they threaten to outcompete everybody else. (and nobody wants that)

[Anonymous No.10554746]

@10554705 not even worth a (You)
>if you're unyielding to bad ethical practices being encouraged you're fucked regardless of iq

this is why no one takes modern academia seriously anymore

[Anonymous No.10554755]

>>10554716
The education system and parenting has adjusted for the modern world.They just seem to be more realistic and motivated but ofcourse not having a sudden recession to welcome them to the working world is a plus.

[Anonymous No.10554763]

>>10551407

CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
CHARLES C. LAURITSEN LABORATORY OF HIGH ENERGY PHYSICS

October 14, 1985

Dr. Stephen Wolfram
School of Natural Sciences
The Institute for Advanced Study
Princeton, NJ 08540

Dear Wolfram:

1. It is not my opinion that the present organizational structure of science inhibits "complexity research" - I do not believe such an institution is necessary.

2. You say you want to create your own environment - but you will not be doing that: you will create (perhaps!) an environment that you might like to work in - but you will not be working in this environment - you will be administering it - and the administration environment is not what you seek - is it? You won't enjoy administrating people because you won’t succeed in it.

You don’t understand "ordinary people." To you they are "stupid fools" - so you will not tolerate them or treat their foibles with tolerance or patience - but will drive yourself wild (or they will drive you wild) trying to deal with them in an effective way.

Find a way to do your research with as little contact with non-technical people as possible, with one exception, fall madly in love! That is my advice, my friend.

Sincerely,

(Signed, 'Richard P. Feynman')

Richard P. Feynman

RPF;ht

[Anonymous No.10554868]

>>10551407
NEETism is result of mental health issues. If you're mentally unhealthy everything is hard regardless of IQ, and potential.

[Anonymous No.10554877]

>>10554868
>mental health issues
and mental health issues are a consequence of being intelligent enough to realize that your choices essentially boil down to either being complicit or going along to get along with a profoundly sick and corrupt society

[Anonymous No.10554894]

>>10554868
Im sure intelligent psychopaths have no problem with going along to get along
psychopaths face no mental health challenges or existential dilemma.

[Anonymous No.10554896]

The NEET phenomenon is very interesting. It would be nice to see it conclusively explored but I think it would lead to politically controversial results.

[Anonymous No.10554909]

>>10554896
I'm curious what kind of results you're thinking of. The possibilities I can imagine are something about gender dynamics and feminism, or about institutional favoritism and the response of groups that are harmed by it.

[Anonymous No.10554918]

>>10554909
Have you ever heard of the great pacific garbage patch? Are you aware that tigers are near extinction? Do you care?

Ya... lol. its just a bunch of loser white males, bitter for deservedly losing their jobs to more able women and minorities.

You are cancer

[Anonymous No.10554921]

>>10554896
- too much trouble and often risk for little reward
- barrier to entry artificially high (competition with the entire world, plus prerequisites just to take the relevant degree)
- ANXIETY

there's your study

[Anonymous No.10554928]

>>10554918
what?

[Anonymous No.10554930]

>>10551407
Nice thread, thanks OP

>>10551490
Bingo

[Anonymous No.10554932]

>>10554928
exactly...

[Anonymous No.10554933]

>>10551407
In my opinion, one of the biggest problems with the recent generations is the lack of parental figures. Children are neglected while their parent/s work, given an ipad or videogame system for entertainment, and are totally deprived of conversation, emotion and touch. Then those people who neglected and abused us feel entitled to spitefully rant about the children they failed to raise.

[Anonymous No.10554941]

The 2000s and the 2010s are almost over guys. The sun is rising once again and we're back in the saddle heading off to Mars. The good times are coming round again.

[Anonymous No.10554948]

>>10552147
>As someone who went to a magnet school for gifted high-school students, this thread makes me laugh.
>All it takes is one recommendation, one suggestion for an examination, and the rest is history.
Holy shit. If this is bait, good job. If it's not bait, you're retarded as fuck. Do you realize that not every country/state/county/city has those systems in place? You probably went to some rich yuppie school that your dad paid for and believe you're smart because so.

[Anonymous No.10554951]

>>10551506
Your haughty projection only serves to reveal your nature and agenda, and your cute instigation is humdrum. Be gone, troll.

[Anonymous No.10554952]

you can't reasonably expect someone with no real community to spend 40-60+ hours of their week doing surrogate activity

[Anonymous No.10554953]

>>10554763
>You don’t understand "ordinary people." To you they are "stupid fools" - so you will not tolerate them or treat their foibles with tolerance or patience - but will drive yourself wild (or they will drive you wild) trying to deal with them in an effective way.

This is literally my opinion as well. I really don't like going down this misanthrope path but it's really fucking hard to consider someone with 100 IQ or less as "human". They're dumb, uninspired, disordered, have a fetishism for mediocrity and are still stuck fulfilling the exact same primal desires in the exact same way that societies 10000 years ago were fulfilling - basic necessities plus sex. In fact this is what every animal does, and the thing that differs us from lesser animals is the fact that we have more abstract existence and can afford to expend our energy on higher purposes, which normal people are incapable of.

>inb4 5 seething replies with a fedora picture

[Anonymous No.10554956]

>>10554941
We're never going to recover from the widespread introduction of the smartphone and social media. These caused a profound transformation to the way we behave, which took less than ten years.

[Anonymous No.10554958]

>>10554868
Well high IQ doesn't protect you from the effects of bullying and abuse while making both likely. Hard to do anything meanignful with C-PTSD.

[Anonymous No.10554959]

>>10552160
Incel spotted. Women don't dislike you because you're intelligent (you're probably not even intelligent, you lack self awareness). It's because you're a sperg with no social skills.

[Anonymous No.10554966]

>>10554959
It makes you extremely attractive to women, if anything.

[Anonymous No.10554968]

>>10551783
Stop trolling with a proof you know is wrong, you're likely not even Tooker, you just use his attempt to troll people. At least evolve your game at this point, and stop selling stale bread.

[Anonymous No.10554969]

>>10552664
Based and redpilled. Weird that the most intelligent posts always have 0 replies while the stupidest posts have 10 replies.

[Anonymous No.10554978]

>>10554615
>I actually read Musk's biography
Holy shit he has a biography? Is he releasing it in chapters or some shit?

[Anonymous No.10554985]

>>10554966
Women do like intelligence. I but I have to clarify that anxiety, overthinking, low self confidence and being fidgety are more unattractive than intelligence is attractive. I used to not get women because of that but now women love me.

[Anonymous No.10555037]

>>10554630
nice quote

[Anonymous No.10555045]

>>10554763
wow, nice find, neat correspondence.

[Anonymous No.10555058]

>>10554868
Keep trying to convince people it's those "autistic NEETs" psychological issues and not social engineered systemic issues. You're so close.

[Anonymous No.10555070]

>>10554877
This is accurate. The social health issues lead to mental health issues in the ones who don't realize it's by design.

[Anonymous No.10555450]

>>10552152
Hold on now, I'm absolutely not trying to stop people discussing anything at all. Trying to silence people with altering viewpoints is precisely what is wrong with the world, also precisely what you're doing. What I'm doing is offering a view, an opinion. It could help. Or it could not. Since the question being asked is hardly something that can be resolved through currently known scientific means anyway, opinions are all anyone here have to offer. You'd do well to heed your own words though. If you disagree with with me, that's fine. But don't attack my person, or claim to know my agenda simply because you don't agree.

[Anonymous No.10555572]

>>10555450
>also precisely what you're doing
No it is not. You were ignoring the topic of this thread in order to share your tangential opinions. I pointed that out. Your behavior is not welcome because we are in an environment with the expectation that people will discuss the topic in the op, and that people wanting to discuss different topics will make their own threads. You are perfectly free to make another thread and share your opinions there. I promise I will not attempt to derail your thread into a discussion of op's question.

You are attempting to conflate making value judgements with trying to determine truth in non-rigorous ways but they are not the same thing. Despite your insinuation that the only discussion that can be had about this topic is people declaring their value judgements at each other many people in this thread are doing things besides declaring their value judgements. That kind of discussion is what op seemed to be asking for, as opposed to your meta opinions that the actionability of this topic is more important than its truth.

While it is true I can not know for certain what your motivation is I think it is likely you failed to recognize the possibility of the type of discussion that has been occurring because you care more about actionability and influencing other people's behavior than you do about truth, like I previously suggested.

[Anonymous No.10556298]

>>10551407
>Anyone else thinks modern society is a lot more toxic towards geniuses?

warfare conducted on only the smartest members of a civilization is easy to make stealthy, and in the long term is devastating to the population and civilization.

[Anonymous No.10556421]

>>10551490
>"I only live in my parent's basement because SOCIETY didn't appreciate my superior intellect"

[Anonymous No.10556501]

>>10556421
No one wants to live with their parents just to not have to work.

[Anonymous No.10557821]

No, the new generation is more tolerant of people who are different.

[Anonymous No.10557873]

>>10552026
So you're saying Mexicans who work at 4 jobs rotating across multiple fast food stores are genius because they produce results?

[Anonymous No.10557917]

>BRO IM SO SMART JUST BELIEVE ME

[Anonymous No.10557936]

What the FUCK is a neet?
If you're barely getting by in a barely stable environment with parents or not, job or not, you're a slave or surf or hobo basically. A disenfranchised individual

If you're living at home with parents with income to support you what is preventing you from doing something? I'd kill to have that. I'm a literal wageslave atm trying to get out. Are there actual intelligent people neeting?

[Anonymous No.10557955]

>>10557936
But my point really is low economic mobility and shit like that is what is contributive to supposed smart people failing. This society doesn't support exceptionalism in general because too many people are too poor in a first world nation to buy education

[Anonymous No.10557959]

>>10557936
>what is preventing you from doing something?
In most cases probably trauma/abuse during formative years and the resulting life-long (if untreated) anxiety disorders, CPTSD, depression, etc. Anxiety disorders are way, way worse than people give them credit for. Especially combined with intelligence, where the person can come up with far more possible bad outcomes to be anxious about.

[Anonymous No.10558003]

>>10551407

Society in general seems more spiteful towards people who do not function as they're supposed to or do not want to lick upwards.

Add to that the diploma caste system and you're pretty much a laughing stock if you talk about being intelligent without oozing some papers.

Once you have worked at a university you will see that its in many cases a protected system where politics play a huge role. Go against the grain and you'll suffer. Most of the time the mediocre robot(which is still pretty clever) will beat a cunning "outsider" unfit for hirarchy.

[Anonymous No.10558015]

It is your idea of genius that is wrong. The real geniuses are the ones on top right now, OP.

[Anonymous No.10558048]

>>10557936
>Are there actual intelligent people neeting?

You arsaying yourself wageslaving sucks and even if you get some kind of fancy degree you are probably way worse off than your middle class boomer parents, think of all the millennials with college degrees and debt that barely get by. Smart think to do is just drop out and leech off your boomer parents and whatever benefits you can get. If you are a first world citizen and you don't give a shit about normie shit like status symbols and vacation(which is just another status symbol really) there is literally no reason to participate in this downward rat race.

[Anonymous No.10558055]

>>10558015
The people on top are unprincipled mediocre human garbage. Our society literally rewards the lowest people.

[Anonymous No.10558081]

>>10558055

That's what you say to yourself to justify your situation of non-success. Everyone that is on top right now has the means, capacity and motivation that lead them there.

It's all about the mindset, and you currently believe people get rewarded instead of achieving something by their own efforts. Start by changing that.

[Anonymous No.10558099]

>>10558081
Achievement itself warrants no credit. People “achieve” things out of a narcissistic desire for status and do so by dishonest, pathetic means such as networking. Networking is inherently slimy and two-faced. Ambitious person = bad person.

[Anonymous No.10558111]

>>10551407
>That's why everything today is mediocre, plain and boring, from science to entertainment.
Nah, it's just that life is not a movie and scientific inquiry is very boring (or at least looks so to an outside observer) on a day to day basis. It's not all illuminations and drawing with chalk on windows. Even extremely intelligent people spend a lot of time hard at work either reading papers or working on their stuff and it is kind of a grind.
And yeah, maybe there is untapped potential among NEETs. School can be traumatic towards gifted children and maybe some of them become NEETs, but I don't think the majority of NEETs are examples of this phenomenon. Then again, I don't know.

[Anonymous No.10558126]

>>10558111
this, i've always thought this was a big problem for people who get messed up growing up and retreat into fictional worlds. real life is so, so, so boring and unfulfilling compared to even the most boring fictional worlds that nothing about it seems desirable by comparison.

[Anonymous No.10558139]

>>10554953
Do you live in a cave ? How old are you, honestly ? I cannot imagine someone in their twenties having a worldview so lacking in nuance and empathy.
You honestly sound like every 16 yo pseud after reading Zarathustra for the first time.

[Anonymous No.10558863]

>>10551442
>gauging this by socio-economic "value"
Yikes...

[Anonymous No.10558893]

>>10551407
I don't think so, if you're Newton tier today you're one of those students who gets all the grants and can go to school forever without paying and getting money in return. If you're not, you're fucked but you were fucked in the past as well

[Anonymous No.10558906]

>>10551442
>All the people that have average or low IQ but actually go out there and make an impact
yeah being a WAGEKEK for the bull NEET

[Anonymous No.10558919]

>>10551407
You have to engineer society properly if you want to tap into it's potential. It's a matter of the spirit of the person. Hard times make strong men because all the weak ones died. That doesn't have to happen with proper societal technologies though. Nobody researches culture sciences anymore. They just study mass movement to make a profit off of society.

[Anonymous No.10558935]

>>10552168
>aid of gifted education programs, gifted academies, and the various support networks that come with these
woah thank God those are available to every child

[Anonymous No.10559651]

>"I-I'm smart, I swear! It's society's fault I've accomplished nothing and never will!"
>"In fact accomplishment is a lie anyway! I know this because bearded greek man said so 2000 years ago!"

C O P E

[Anonymous No.10559793]

>>10551407
Academia has always hated those not in it. They are the virgins who were beat up and decided to call themselves the geniuses despite not contributing anything to anything.

[Anonymous No.10559801]

>>10551407
No, because the geniuses who are alpha enough to fight back and win respect among normies are pushed to become near perfect beings and do a lot of good for society. Nothing is handed to you in life, this post just comes off as self victimization and begging for validation. Bullies are a powerful gatekeeper to the keys of society, they are a right of passage that you must endure or overcome in order to get what you want. And it never stops, you must keep pushing if you want to be great. If not you deserve failure.

[Anonymous No.10560017]

>>10552002
Nice pic

[Anonymous No.10560047]

>>10551783
Glad to see arXiv have effective schizo filters.

[Anonymous No.10560052]

>>10551407
Dude what are you even talking about? Scientific breakthroughs on everything possible are made daily, just not talked about.

There's beyond gigabit internet capabilities being developed/tested.

>In the first announcement, researchers say they’ve obtained 26.2 terabits per second over the roughly 4,000 mile-long trans-Atlantic MAREA cable, in an experiment; and in the second, networking company Ciena says it will start deliveries of an 800 gigabit-per-second, single wavelength light throughput system in Q3 2019.

There's new material science ongoing that will blow everyone's minds when they are used in consumer products 20 years from now.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/04/190411101808.htm

Just get off your lazy ass and study hard and make a difference if you want to because there are tons of people working out there doing this stuff right now and you can join them. Don't let other people's opinions get in your way because I don't see the mass media cheering these guys on for being progressive and LTGBQBBQWTF or whatever but they are doing it anyway.

[Anonymous No.10560114]

>>10554763
Interesting bit of history. Thanks for sharing.

[Anonymous No.10560125]

>>10551407
"The wise men were cunning. They ran to the mountains and hills, the veils and the hollows, splitting their souls into a myriad of shards to hide away from the tyrants grasp. Awaiting the return of The True King and a golden age to which deserved their efforts." - Cyran

[Anonymous No.10560227]

>>10558099
And someone with low IQ but high social skills would claim that networking is more representative of a high-value individual than IQ since the former is actually mare correlated at the positive extremes with opportunities to give value to individuals and society than IQ. There are plenty of smart losers and far less unaccomplished superconnecters.
The fact that you claim to be "smart" despite still irrationally clinging to naive worldviews which serve your ego rather than truth (much like every other low IQ npc) is laughable.