/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10450996]

>A few hundred years of oppression is responsible for literally the entire racial intelligence gap

>70,000 years of evolutionary divergence in wildly different environments played absolutely no role whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.10451004]

>>10450996
Comparing a 17 year old nordic woman with a 70 year old aborigine.
>70,000 years of evolutionary divergence
source please

[Anonymous No.10451011]

>>10451004
Not OP, but I just read the first sentence of your post and you already fell for a fallacy: the continuum fallacy. How many errors am I going to find if the first sentence already is disastrously flawed.

[Anonymous No.10451016]

>>10451004
https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/human-journey/

[Anonymous No.10451017]

>>10450996
The intelligence Gap is mostly due to environmental factors like lead poisoning, which is why as time goes on and more lead is removed from households the average black IQ approaches the average white
Unless you have an explanation for how evolution could possibly cause the average black IQ to raise over 5 points in just a couple decades

[Anonymous No.10451018]

>>10451011
I'm talking about the first sentence of the picture you posted, I might add

[Anonymous No.10451021]

>>10451004
>Human variation is continuous

ALL variation is continuous. Life is monophyletic as far back as we can tell. That doesn't mean that different groups don't branch off

[Anonymous No.10451023]

>>10451017
>The intelligence Gap is mostly due to environmental factors like lead poisoning

But it's not though. Even when factors like socio-economic are removed, wealthy blacks only perform about as well as poor whites

[Anonymous No.10451025]

>>10451023
Not really. Wealthy blacks by definition are wealthy and therefore performed better in life compared to poor whites. Imagine having an IQ privilege and still failing at life. Nothing more pathetic than poor whites on this planet.

[Anonymous No.10451027]

>>10451023
Wealthy blacks were historically segregated into homes with lots of lead too due to the prevalence of segregated neighborhoods

[Anonymous No.10451028]

>>10451017
Intelligence differences are due to environmental differences in the sense that we genetically adapt to the environment we're exposed too, but I assume this is not what you're talking about. The environment does have influence on a persons intelligence. That's why we have the field called quantitative genetics which makes assumptions about the environmental and the genetic influence on intelligence. The current consensus is that intelligence is 70-80% due to ones genes.
The black IQ rising (as did the white IQ I might add) can be explained by the Flynn effect. Also it's quite irrelevant to the discussion we're having as no one is claiming that intelligence is 100% determined by ones genes. I hope this clarifies things!

[Anonymous No.10451039]

>>10451023
Also this doesn't explain why current African immigrants to America have some of the highest IQ averages in the country, even higher than the white average
>>10451028
>the current consensus is that intelligence is 70-80% due to one's genes
No it isn't, there isn't any consensus on this

[Anonymous No.10451041]

>>10451025
Look at the ratio of white billionaires to black billionaires. Also realize that black millionaires are almost exclusively athletes and musicians.

Imagine having literally every handout and set aside ever, and still killing yourself at an animalistic rate

[Anonymous No.10451043]

>>10451004
>Nordic woman
There's no such thing as a "Nordic woman" unless you mean a woman holding a passport from a Nordic country. We're all one race

[Anonymous No.10451046]

>>10451039
>Also this doesn't explain why current African immigrants to America have some of the highest IQ averages in the country, even higher than the white average

Because the ones that come here from said shit holes are here on academic scholarships, so you're getting the top .000001%

>Even higher than the white average

Yeah try finding a source on that

[Anonymous No.10451050]

>>10451043
>We're all one race

[Anonymous No.10451053]

>>10451043
There's a Scandinavian genetic cluster we can draw wherein the girl in OPs picture would find herself in. So yes, there is a thing called "nordic".

[Anonymous No.10451059]

>>10451046
https://geneticliteracyproject.org/2015/07/06/african-immigrant-blacks-do-better-on-iq-tests-than-other-blacks-some-whites/

Also here's an interesting study done on the black children in Germany which were born from the result of black American soldiers procreating with German women
Because no lead was used in construction in post-war West Germany, the IQ of black children was essentially the same as in white children in Germany
https://www1.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf

[Anonymous No.10451060]

>>10451039
You do not understand what "average" means. Just because the white American average is at 103 and the African American average IQ for example is at 85 doesn't mean that every white person is smarter than every African American person. Furthermore you erroneously presume that the African immigrants that are coming to America are representatives of the average African. As the othe ranon pointed out they're upper class people on academic scholarships, so it's no surprise that they're doing very well compared to their kin living in Africa.

[Anonymous No.10451068]

>>10451059
Sorry that study only cites the German study, here's the real deal https://newbooksinpolitics.com/political/farbige-kinder-in-deutschland/

[Anonymous No.10451070]

>>10451059
>Some whites

>black American soldiers procreating with German women

>Mulatto children being black children

From your own source

>Some have suggested that we cannot expect members of ethnic groups to
simply accept the genetic component in the mean-group differences in IQ and
other traits. Yet, with regard to individuals within families, we do acknowledge
that some siblings are more intelligent, more athletic, more physically attractive,
or more socially charming than others. We also accept that some families are
genetically more gifted in certain areas than other families. We should, therefore,
by extension, be able to generalize to all the members of the human family. If
viewed against the backdrop that group differences are simply aggregated individual differences, the former may be easier to accept than has hitherto been
thought

[Anonymous No.10451076]

>>10451070
If IQ were heritable, then mulatto children would most likely have a lower IQ

[Anonymous No.10451077]

>>10451076
And they do

[Anonymous No.10451079]

>>10451059
>Children
Yes that is not a big surprise as blacks develop faster than whites or Asians. Furthermore you made the same mistake as before and presumed that the black American soldiers are representatives of the average black American.
Pretty much every IQ study done on half white half black people shows that their IQ is below the white average. I find it quite telling that you cherrypick one which approves of your views. A very interesting studies that sheds a light on race & IQ and the environmental and genetic factors of it is the Minnesota Transracial Adoption study which I highly advise you to read.

[Anonymous No.10451084]

>>10451079
I like how the MTRA study ended up not showing what they wanted it to show, so they just made a shitload of excuses then abandoned it entirely

[Anonymous No.10451089]

>>10451077
Cool
Now explain the why they don't in environments with lead and segregation
>>10451079
>presumed that the black American soldiers are representatives of the average black American
They literally were though, do you understand how a military draft works?
I'm also not cherrypicking, I simply found an environment were black and white people had a mostly equal development ground. Cherrypicking would be doing the opposite, like using a study in a highly segregated environment with a lead poisoning epidemic disproportionately affecting a certain race
>Yes that is not a big surprise as blacks develop faster than whites or Asians
What studies do you base this conclusion off of?

[Anonymous No.10451093]

>>10451077
>>10451089
*Now explain the why they don't in environments WITHOUT lead and segregation

[Anonymous No.10451094]

>>10451089
>Now explain the why they don't in environments with lead and segregation

They already did, in homes with white families.

[Anonymous No.10451100]

>>10451093
The gap literally never disappears among like socio-economic statuses

[Anonymous No.10451104]

>>10451094
>>10451100
>literally a deviation of +/-4
I'd love to know why that graph is mysteriously missing standard deviation bars

[Anonymous No.10451105]

>>10451104
Probably because it's not the entire actual study but an accurate, truncated representation of findings

[Anonymous No.10451112]

>>10450996
You are trying to convince people you are smarter because of your genes.
Trying to convince people you are smart is an immediate red flag that you are a brainlet.
Trying to convince people you are smart because of your genes is on a whole other level.
If you cannot understand how utterly retarded this sounds, there is no hope for you.
Doesn't matter what studies or evidence you produce.
The fact remains that only an utter brainlet would waste his time on this topic.

[Anonymous No.10451117]

Why were Germans so uncivilized in 1400 AD relative to Chinese Ottoman Turks or southern Italians?

Why were those three groups so backwards by the 1700s relative to the north Italians French Brits and Krauts?

How did the Americans leapfrog the entire world from 1850 to 1950? Why did the Chinese catch up to the west in only 30 years?

Hint: Not genetics.

[Anonymous No.10451118]

>>10451094
>>10451100
>>10451104
Shit I misread the graph lol
The graph does show that when black children are adopted into less lead concentrated households their IQ does rise, but this still doesn't control for lead present in their former home and or foster home like the German study could control for in the case of mulatto children

[Anonymous No.10451120]

>>10451112
>The fact remains that only an utter brainlet would waste his time on this topic.

>Only an utter brainlet would waste time trying to get people to understand that treating all people as if they were equal is only causing more problems, and bottlenecking in education

[Anonymous No.10451122]

>>10451089
You disregarded all studies that show that half black half white people have lower IQs than whites because that would shatter your beliefs.
Also regarding the "lead poisoning". This is a fallacy. You are confusing a potential cause for the actual cause.
Even though lead impacts crime, the fact that the races barely differ in terms of lead exposure as children and not at all as adults suggests that lead probably plays little to no role in the American Black-White IQ gap. This conclusion is consistent with Feigenbaum and Muller and Nevin who found that the proportion of an area which was Black continued to predict its crime rate even after its degree of lead exposure was controlled for.

[Anonymous No.10451123]

>>10451118
What is your obsession with lead?

Lead paint has been banned for 40 years

[Anonymous No.10451127]

>>10450996
humans are a species cluster it's offensive to lump all races together and also very dangerous regarding medicine and health, social policy, etc.

[Anonymous No.10451128]

>>10451118
>or foster home like the German study could control for in the case of mulatto children

Your own study admitted there were differences and that basically the only problem was in how you approach presenting them

[Anonymous No.10451129]

>>10451117
Yeah of course it's not genetics. If you didn't work in china under lmao zedong you were dead.

[Anonymous No.10451136]

>>10451123
asbestos is banned to and yet it turns up all over the place.

even when you strip the paint, lead stays in the wood.

[Anonymous No.10451139]

>>10451120
>believing in education
Again you have proved what a complete brainlet you are.
There is no such thing as education. There is only self-education.
Anything else is just for show.
Now you are blaming your lack of education to the system.
Stop digging your own grave brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10451143]

>>10451122
Because it's a real and rampant problem in America, if it weren't then the German and American studies would have similar results
>>10451123
True and lead has been reduced in construction over time which is why black IQ is growing so fast, but still hasn't been completely eradicated
>>10451128
The difference being how my study could control for lead being present and how yours couldn't

[Anonymous No.10451144]

>>10451112
Not OP, but as we are arguing for the same thing I will respond to it anyway.

You erroneously presume that this debate is about us as individuals. This is about the influence genes have on intelligence and how they differ between popularized genetic clusters. This is an extremely important topic due to massive third world immigration and the extensive socio-economic differences between races within a country.

[Anonymous No.10451145]

>>10451117
>people were shorter in 1400 AD than now
>this height is not affected by genetics

[Anonymous No.10451146]

>>10451117
>They're all literally members of two particular races

>Not genetics

[Anonymous No.10451147]

>>10451112
>strawman x5
impressive
>The fact remains that only an utter brainlet would waste his time on this topic.
glorious lack of self awareness here

[Anonymous No.10451151]

>>10451143
As I said before there is little to no difference in lead exposure in children and not at all among adults.
You base your whole belief on one single IQ study done many decades ago. Maybe you should put aside your liberal moral system to try to see the world as it is, not how it ought to be.

[Anonymous No.10451156]

>>10451143
You rambling about lead reminds me of Garrison in South Park when he's writing the sex novel and can't stop thinking about penises.

[Anonymous No.10451160]

>>10451151
Homes with more lead paint have been shown to be far more common in black neighborhoods
If you need me to tell you that making segregation illegal hasn't magically made all neighborhoods diverse there's no hope for you
>>10451156
no u

[Anonymous No.10451164]

>>10451144
> This is an extremely important topic due to massive third world immigration and the extensive socio-economic differences between races within a country.
This is still about you as an individual. You are afraid that people who you perceive as being dumber than you, are a threat to you.
This is a complete paradox and signifies not only a lack of brains but also a lack of balls.

[Anonymous No.10451168]

Hey black dude here.

I know you guys think racism and slavery is gone but we also count the war on drugs as apart of the white mans systematic disenfranchisement of our people.

>10% minority population = 50% prison population
>its because they are animals

its one thing to be an edgy teen on the internet. But im blck in real life and none of you are ever gpong to actually take the time and consoder the facts.

[Anonymous No.10451171]

>>10451164
>haha dude why would you care if third worlders destroy your country are you just a pussy or something???

[Anonymous No.10451172]

>>10451164
Shh, adults are talking

[Anonymous No.10451177]

>>10451168
>the white mans systematic disenfranchisement of our people.


>The races are perfectly equal

>But whites were able to universally oppress blacks

[Anonymous No.10451178]

>>10451160
How many times do I have to repeat myself before it penetrates your brain? Lead poisoning has an impact on crime and intelligence, however, there is little to no difference between children and no difference at all among adults.

[Anonymous No.10451182]

>>10451178
Okay sure bud

[Anonymous No.10451185]

>>10451182
What is this, an elevated lead level graph for ants?

[Anonymous No.10451188]

>>10451182
lmao at those error bars

[Anonymous No.10451191]

>>10451188
Even accounting for the error it's pretty clear that black people up until extremely recently have been far more susceptible to lead poisoning

[Anonymous No.10451197]

>>10451182
Small mean differences lead to large differences at the tails of distributions. However, there is no justification for the thresholds used here. In fact, these thresholds are so arbitrary this one chart uses three different standards. This reflects changes in the CDC guidelines about safe levels of lead. For decades, the CDC has been lowering this “safe threshold” as better research has come in with larger samples and more precise measures which have allowed researchers to document the damage that lead does even at very low levels.

Also CDC numbers form tsoi and Pricket show that BLL levels no longer differ significantly by race among the total population.

[Anonymous No.10451200]

>>10451191
probably because they are harder to educate than white people

[Anonymous No.10451216]

>>10451171
that's not even what I am saying.
I'm saying that they can't destroy you if you are smarter and if your civilization is better.
If they manage to destroy you, it means you are stupid and your civilization is shit.
If you want my honest opinion, yes they will change a few things. but the things that will be changed are the bad things that should be changed anyway. The good things will remain and they will adapt to them or perish.
In return, we will have to adapt to the things that are better about their civilization or we will perish.
The end result will be a civilization of humanity that combines the positive aspects of all civilizations.
If you cannot understand how this is inevitable and also a good thing, there is no hope for you.

[Anonymous No.10451220]

>>10450996
Why should natural selection and evolution affect human intelligence, aptitude, or temperament?

[Anonymous No.10451221]

>>10451216
>I'm saying that they can't destroy you if you are smarter and if your civilization is better.
you are quite dumb and uninformed then

[Anonymous No.10451230]

>>10451221
He's clearly just baiting. Don't waste your time on him.

[Anonymous No.10451231]

>>10451221
Have you ever heard about evolution and natural selection?
If you perish then by definition you are inferior and dumber.
Moreover do you think natural selection applies only to living beings?
It applies to civilizations as well.
If your culture becomes extinct, it is by definition inferior.

[Anonymous No.10451254]

>>10450996
>explain how every human is not an identical twin
>you CAN'T
You sure got me...

[Anonymous No.10451257]

>>10451231
So what you're saying is that white genocide proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that white people are inferior in every way to POC

[Anonymous No.10451264]

>>10451257
No. They're inferior to Jews.

[Anonymous No.10451269]

>>10450996
>70,000 years of evolutionary divergence in wildly different environments played absolutely no role whatsoever.
There is actually more genetic variation between people of the same race than there is between people of two different races

[Anonymous No.10451272]

>>10451269
you are actually a brainlet

[Anonymous No.10451278]

>>10451269

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genetic_Diversity:_Lewontin%27s_Fallacy

[Anonymous No.10451280]

>>10451269
Another typical response... oy vey

You do know that the "more variation within than between" argument is true for pretty much every species with a specified subspecies? I guess there's no typological differences between brown bears and polar bears because there's more difference within than between, right? You can also apply the same to humans and chimpanzees.

[Anonymous No.10451285]

>>10451280
So you're saying polar bears are much smarter than grizzlies?

[Anonymous No.10451288]

>>10451285
>so you're saying [disingenuous non-sequitur]
gradually, I began to hate them.

[Anonymous No.10451290]

>>10451011
He also fell for Lewontin's fallacy right in the next paragraph.

[Anonymous No.10451301]

>>10451220
>Why should natural selection and evolution affect human intelligence, aptitude, or temperament?

Because human brain is the fastest evolving organ since our divergence from common ancestor with chimpanzees. Most of the genes that set us apart from them are connected to neural development.

[Anonymous No.10451306]

>>10451257
white people are more intelligent but also suffer from pathological altruism, which may not be a good trait for long term survival

[Anonymous No.10451313]

>>10451290
It's always the same with these people. They keep spouting the same bs and get called out every time. Fortunately, there are some race-deniers who won't foolishly hang on to their debunked ideas. I hope that the "lead-poisoning" guy learnt something from this thread.

[Anonymous No.10451319]

>>10451177
what are you talking about universally oppress?

Do you not know anything about history?

white people have been getting fucked by china and the arabs since the beginning of recorded history. You guys get on top for 100 years, struggle with leadership, and then say youre the best.....

[Anonymous No.10451326]

>>10451216
>I'm saying that they can't destroy you if you are smarter and if your civilization is better.
>If they manage to destroy you, it means you are stupid and your civilization is shit
Holy shit this might no joke be the most retarded thing I've ever read. It's like saying that if you're the stronger man in a fistfight you can just completely ignore the other guy and if they manage to kill you while you aren't paying attention or fighting back it means you are stupid and weak

[Anonymous No.10451333]

>>10451319
>blacks
nigger reading comprehension lol

[Anonymous No.10451335]

>>10450996
The argument is that the brain is Turing complete so everyone is really the same amount of smartness.

[Anonymous No.10451337]

This debate goes fucking nowhere.
At the end the things are way simpler than the mental gymnastics some /pol/tards like to do:
>IQ does not predict success, it justs predicts extreme retardness
>Richard Lynn's studies about IQ are incorrect (it shouldn't surprise you when you use common sense and realize that he practically said 50% of population has the same intelligence as a child with Down Syndrome).
>socioeconomic phenomena has conditioned blacks to perform worse in IQ test. It's getting better with time, but people here are retarded enough to think just because education is public blacks should now be performing the same.
>At the end, blacks can end up being succesful despite not scoring high in IQ tests. This is because math and language proficiency (the two things that are probably more correlated with IQ) does not define success.

[Anonymous No.10451338]

>>10451333

im smarter and more educated than you dude.

this is why i just lurk......

cant even browse /sci/

[Anonymous No.10451341]

>>10451337
>IQ does not predict success, it justs predicts extreme retardness
wrong
>Richard Lynn's studies about IQ are incorrect (it shouldn't surprise you when you use common sense
>if research degrees with """common sense""" it's wrong
>socioeconomic phenomena has conditioned blacks to perform worse in IQ test
wrong
>At the end, blacks can end up being succesful despite not scoring high in IQ tests.
>outliers mean there are no general trends
imagine posting any of these things on a board that is ostensibly interested in science

[Anonymous No.10451360]

>>10451053
No there is not. Scandinavians are increadbily diverse. The one pictured could very well have more genetic material in common with an african than a german or walesman.

[Anonymous No.10451368]

>>10451059
The americans sure liked raping german women.

[Anonymous No.10451369]

>>10451360
imagine actually believing this

[Anonymous No.10451374]

>>10451313
No one proved me wrong though

[Anonymous No.10451375]

>>10450996
because you don't understand evolution and every race has shown to have highly intelligent individuals.

[Anonymous No.10451378]

>>10451375
>every race
Not even close to being true

[Anonymous No.10451382]

>>10451360
>>10451375
LMAO I'm done for today

[Anonymous No.10451388]

>>10451378
yes it is anon? are you just disagreeing with me because "muh superiority".

[Anonymous No.10451389]

>>10451375
>averages don't exist

[Anonymous No.10451402]

>>10451389
avgs of what? we don't have a proper way of measuring intelligence....we don't even know what causes it. all we can really measure is, are they mentally challenged, normal, above normal, and every race hits these three categories reasonably

[Anonymous No.10451406]

>>10451402
>avgs of what?
IQ you dumb nigger
> all we can really measure is, are they mentally challenged, normal, above normal
wrong
>and every race hits these three categories reasonably
if "reasonably" means "in the same proportion" then this is wrong too

[Anonymous No.10451409]

>>10451406
wow, your really turning this into another iq thread. i'm done

[Anonymous No.10451410]

>>10451409
it has explicitly been an IQ thread since the fourth post and implicitly from the OP you illiterate mongoloid

[Anonymous No.10451416]

>>10450996
Modern leftish philosophers tend to dismiss reason, science, objective reality and to insist that everything is culturally relative. It is true that one can ask serious questions about the foundations of scientific knowledge and about how, if at all, the concept of objective reality can be defined. But it is obvious that modern leftish philosophers are not simply cool-headed logicians systematically analyzing the foundations of knowledge. They are deeply involved emotionally in their attack on truth and reality. They attack these concepts because of their own psychological needs. For one thing, their attack is an outlet for hostility, and, to the extent that it is successful, it satisfies the drive for power. More importantly, the leftist hates science and rationality because they classify certain beliefs as true (i.e., successful, superior) and other beliefs as false (i.e., failed, inferior). The leftist’s feelings of inferiority run so deep that he cannot tolerate any classification of some things as successful or superior and other things as failed or inferior. This also underlies the rejection by many leftists of the concept of mental illness and of the utility of IQ tests. Leftists are antagonistic to genetic explanations of human abilities or behavior because such explanations tend to make some persons appear superior or inferior to others. Leftists prefer to give society the credit or blame for an individual’s ability or lack of it. Thus if a person is “inferior” it is not his fault, but society’s, because he has not been brought up properly.

[Anonymous No.10451419]

>>10451288
Do you deny evolution? Polar bears obviously have harsher conditions.

[Anonymous No.10451428]

>>10451419
>[more disingenuous non-sequitur]

[Anonymous No.10451430]

>>10451428
So you're saying harsher conditions caused whites to be smarter than blacks?

[Anonymous No.10451431]

>>10450996

[Anonymous No.10451445]

>>10450996
So this ok?
boards.4channel.org/sci/thread/10444903

[Anonymous No.10451469]

>>10451430
>*hebraic screeching*

[Anonymous No.10451503]

>>10451469
I'm trying to become a racist pretty bad, but I need some solid arguments. Help a brotha out.

[Anonymous No.10451577]

>>10451280
>I guess there's no typological differences between brown bears and polar bears because there's more difference within than between, right?
Well if that were the case, maybe color of fur wasn't such a smart criterion by which to classify, no.
> You can also apply the same to humans and chimpanzees.
No you can't, pretty certainly the genetic distance between any pair (human, chimpanzee) is going to be greater than the distance between any pair (human, human). The same cannot be said about humans of different "races"

[Anonymous No.10451654]

>>10451503
Do you think it's natural and healthy to care more about yourself than about others? Do you think it's natural and healthy to care more about your own family than about other families? Your race is just your extended family

Even if you would prefer some utopian hippy world where nobody cares more about themself and their own people and everyone shares everything, that's not the world we live in and it should be obvious that in a world where people are grouping up and working as a team, anyone who doesn't do that is just going to be outcompeted or killed

[Anonymous No.10451663]

>>10451654
>Your race is just your extended family
But... there are some black people I spend more time with than white people I don't know.... I should care more about those strangers than my own acquaintences? Hmm. I'll consider it, though it seems unintuitive.

[Anonymous No.10451704]

>>10451285
maybe they are smarter by some standard deviations, I doubt anyone bothered to research this in detail tough

[Anonymous No.10451717]

>>10450996
Recent large scale genetic studies that utilize whole genome sequencing show that human races exist. They are just called *genetic clusters* mostly for political reasons, and there is some overlap between them, but it is not like racial groups must be distinct to be a valid concept. Picture related.