Scientists and leftism

[Anonymous No.10392698]

Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists? Socialism and communism has repeatedly been proven to be horrible ideas. It's almost self-evident a priori, even without the repeated demonstrations of it's failures, that these are horrible ideas.

So how come there's so many (supposedly) smart scientists still subscribing to these ideas?

[Anonymous No.10392701]

>Socialism and communism has repeatedly been proven to be horrible ideas. It's almost self-evident a priori, even without the repeated demonstrations of it's failures, that these are horrible ideas.
lmfao

[Anonymous No.10392702]

>>10392698
>Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists
Are they? Most scientists and engineers I met have been left of center. Prove that statement before I consider reading the rest of your garbage post.

[Anonymous No.10392714]

>>10392701
he also killed tens of millions of people
suppressing freedom of speech and free expression prevents people from thinking and discussing things freely, which leads to less advancement of knowledge.

I'm not even american btw

[Anonymous No.10392718]

>>10392702
Ok let me rephrase;

Why are there any socialist/communists scientists *at all*?

[Anonymous No.10392724]

>Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists?
Scientists typically have a high IQ, which is strongly correlated with socialist or communist beliefs.

Coincidentally, all three of Ceaușescu's children were physics and mathematics professors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentin_Ceau%C8%99escu

>Working at the Institute of Atomic Physics (IFA) lab in Măgurele, he performs nuclear physics research

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoia_Ceau%C8%99escu

>After completing her Ph.D. in mathematics, she worked as a researcher at the Institute of Mathematics of the Romanian Academy in Bucharest. Her field of specialization was functional analysis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicu_Ceau%C8%99escu

>Nicu Ceaușescu (Romanian pronunciation: [ˈniku tʃe̯a.uˈʃesku]; 1 September 1951 – 26 September 1996) was a Romanian physicist and communist politician who was the youngest child of Romanian leader Nicolae and Elena Ceaușescu.

[Anonymous No.10392729]

>>10392718
Some scientists aren't the brightest, and some were conditioned to be that way. Why aren't you asking about the minority number scientists with far-right tendencies?

[Anonymous No.10392730]

>>10392698
Social scientists are not real scientists, and as for hard scientists, almost all of them are liberals, center left, or social democrats. Not socialists or communists.

[Anonymous No.10392741]

>>10392698
Science and universities often depend on public funding. You will find many more right leaning scientists in the industry.

[Anonymous No.10392744]

because grant gibs.
also not a science thread. would fit better on &hum.

[Anonymous No.10392758]

scientists are hired by the state or a company, so they need a big daddy government/company to feed their family. ALso they live in a bubble outside the real world. This leads to socialism


on the other hand engineers can own their company and work in the real world with real people, solving real problems. This leads to capitalism. Except CS nerd losers, of course

[Anonymous No.10392768]

>>10392741
Scientists in uni were more right leaning in the past: what changed?

[Anonymous No.10392769]

>>10392698
Probably because:

>government grants
>have lives thinking abstractly
>have lives separated from people of a lower intelligence
>socially and physically weak

Scientists often have lives focused around research, never really dealing with finance or profits. If you have an exceptional IQ you're probably going to excel based largely on this alone, so therefore it's easy to dish out sweeping ideologies in their cosy intellectual bubbles, never dealing with actual reality.

Also, don't forget that scientists are just one branch of intellectuals, as intelligent people who want to make money are going to go into different fields.

[Anonymous No.10392780]

socialism or communism were never tried while capitalism always ends up in terrifying conditions

[Anonymous No.10392781]

>>10392729
Although equally bad, they are in my experience much less frequent than far-left scientists so yah

[Anonymous No.10392785]

>>10392780
socialism/communism has been tried at least a handful of times. Always ended in disaster.

Capitalism, on the other hand, has lifted more people out of poverty and objective misery than anything else in history.

[Anonymous No.10392786]

>>10392698
Social conservatism is associated with lower intelligence but economic conservatism is associated with higher intelligence. Actual socialists or communists tend to be quite dumb.

https://www.econlib.org/archives/2015/01/intelligence_ma_1.html

[Anonymous No.10392789]

>>10392780
>socialism was never tried
terrible bait

[Anonymous No.10392797]

>>10392780
You can try. Nobody is stopping anyone from creating a worker-owned company, dear brainlet. It just does not work as well as capitalism, and that is all there is to it.

[Anonymous No.10392805]

>>10392698
Science is unnatural and many traditions stem from specific past conditions and are not always natural. Therefore a scientist who doesn't really know much about why of many traditional beliefs and prefers dealing with things he understands, starts leaning left here. Additionally science can be thought to be very optimistic and provides almost magical solutions to many problems. Therefore there is not much room for many pragmatic beliefs that run right wing, like inability to provide for the poor, eugenics or racism. It's also the reason why right wing latches onto racial biology and concepts like IQ, because they don't really solve anything but rather justify their pragmatism.

There is also the part where private sector is absolutely unwilling to invest into research that doesn't bring short term benefits so paycheck lies on the government mostly.

[Anonymous No.10392817]

>>10392780
>capitalism always ends up in terrifying conditions
meanwhile all the most developed countries in the world are capitalist + some taxpayer funded welfare on top

truly terrifying I swear

[Anonymous No.10392837]

>>10392701
>>10392714
You're both retarded. Authoritarians cannot lead a socialist or communist country. Stalin was an oligarch a drunk and so obsessed with the "idea" of communism that he thought it could be applied to any field and growing plants as close together as possible would make them into a colonial organism.

[Anonymous No.10392849]

>>10392698
>Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists?
Because they're smarter than you

>Socialism and communism has repeatedly been proven to be horrible ideas.
Scientists apparently disagree

>It's almost self-evident a priori, even without the repeated demonstrations of it's failures, that these are horrible ideas.
Self-evident for you, a brainlet, possibly!

>So how come there's so many (supposedly) smart scientists still subscribing to these ideas?
Because capitalism is pure evil.

[Anonymous No.10392859]

>in one generation turn the poorest Great Power in Europe with a literacy rate of 15% into a space-faring superpower that launched Sputnik
>eastern europe immediately becomes an impoverished hellscape as soon as socialism collapses
>70 years after your death people on a sri lankan motorcycle enthusiast forum claim that socialism doesn't work

[Anonymous No.10392895]

>>10392789
Not real socialism

[Anonymous No.10392909]

>>10392895
>>10392859
>>10392837
so which is it?

[Anonymous No.10392918]

>>10392837
>Authoritarians cannot lead a socialist or communist country
Why has literally every communist country been authoritarian?

[Anonymous No.10392927]

>>10392729
>Some scientists aren't the brightest, and some were conditioned to be that way.
Scientists tend to have amazing hubris. They constantly make wild claims that aren't even realistically measurable with 100% confidence and most are proven wrong inevitably.

[Anonymous No.10392937]

>>10392918
Because it's easy to become a leader when you both control the military and promise wild shit to the people.

[Anonymous No.10392942]

>>10392859
>180x180
Why would anyone take you seriously when you can't differentiate between a thumbnail and a proper image?

[Anonymous No.10392946]

Actually, everyone else in this thread is wrong, and I'm right. That's why I'm in charge and you're not.

[Anonymous No.10392978]

>>10392927
>They constantly make wild claims that aren't even realistically measurable with 100% confidence and most are proven wrong inevitably.

Very much like shitposters on this very image board.

[Anonymous No.10392989]

>>10392698
because they are niggers that rely on government funding for their research

[Anonymous No.10393001]

>>10392978
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWdD206eSv0

[Anonymous No.10393010]

>>10392978
Kind of. At least they're not claiming they can measure exactly how massive a galaxy thousands of lightyears away is. But also it's off for some reason because of "dark matter".

[Anonymous No.10393015]

>>10392698
They were raised to believe that society is a meritocracy, primarily based on intelligence. But income only correlates very roughly with intelligence. They see the disparity between what they get and what they "deserve", and infer injustice.

[Anonymous No.10393026]

>>10392989
>niggers
Why the racism you fucking faggot?

[Anonymous No.10393054]

>>10393026
>faggot
Why the homophobia you fucking nigger?

[Anonymous No.10393060]

>>10393054
>homophobia
Why the islamophobia?

[Anonymous No.10393097]

>>10393060
>islam
Why the antisemitism you goddamn goat fucker?

[Anonymous No.10393118]

>>10392837
>Stalin was an oligarch
What do you mean by that? He was actually an ascetic who eschewed luxury and wealth. Even negative historical accounts like Stalin: The Court of the Red Tsar by Simon Sebag Montefiore and the recent works by Stephen Kotkin (both anti-communist) confirm that he was driven by genuine ideological conviction, not personal wealth or power.

[Anonymous No.10393124]

*sends a young politician to the gulag for the rest of his life for not clapping emphatically enough at the soviet*
*makes it illegal to criticize literally anything to do with the state*

[Anonymous No.10393127]

>>10392701
Many North Koreans praise Kim's reign too, what's your point
Socialism literally ruined the whole Eastern Europe

[Anonymous No.10393129]

>>10392701
>No unemployment
Because everyone was dead or in the goolags. He did free the Russians from their Jewish overlords though. Stalin aside, I've met some old ruskis who said middle class life was more or less the same as it was in the West.

[Anonymous No.10393131]

>>10393127
Tip: you aren't talking to someone who is honest or open to legitimate discourse.

[Anonymous No.10393134]

>>10392859
>as soon as socialism collapses
It was an impoverished hellscape during socialism you idiot, we have some real prosperity compared to 40 years ago
Yes, we, I'm actually Polish and I know what it was like here

[Anonymous No.10393135]

>>10392698
>Reading, "Rick Warren's The Purpose Driven Life: What on Earth Am I Here For?," which is about God's 5 purposes for human life on Earth and a copy of, "The King James Version of the Holy Bible."
>religion vs science thread
>/pol/ thread

OP, are you irony posting again?

[Anonymous No.10393140]

>>10392698
Hmm, I don't know many scientists who are outright commies, at least not people who are in the STEM fields. But left leaning yes. I consider myself right wing but I am all for people fucking who they want, and believe in social programs.

[Anonymous No.10393145]

>>10393026
>>10393054
Why the homoism?

[Anonymous No.10393147]

>>10392785
Socialism that was taken over and diverted by authoritarianism can hardly be called socialism anymore.

That said, personally I think a true socialist society will never be achieved, which is why I lean social democrat than real deal socialist.

>>10392817
Terrifying for anyone who isnt in the top race brackets. Capitalism cant survive without a large class of people who are essentially bankrupt slaves. Even having a robust middle class is antithetical to capitalism, because it can only protect itself through government welfare, regulation, and social programs like unions. If you want to get a better life for yourself and you weren't born in the uber rich, you're mostly stuck waiting for a miracle.

Also American capitalism relies on carrying out, supporting, or engineering atrocities on a global scale. We have our finger in every pie because we have to, to prop up our own wealth and excess.

[Anonymous No.10393150]

>>10393097
S-s-sorry Mr. Finkelstein.

[Anonymous No.10393157]

>>10393147
*tax brackets

[Anonymous No.10393183]

>>10392698
Most scientists compete on a bureaucratic level for grants, rather than on a capitalist profit motive basis. This is pretty much how socialist economies work - people propose ideas and hope they're given the resources/power to put them into action by some obscure all knowing committee. It's pretty natural for them to think more socialism means for grants for them, since they have all the good ideas. What they don't realise is that the grant money comes from a fully functioning economy that only works in the absence of serious socialism.
Intelligent people also tend to more empathetic, and so can often be fooled into believing things that have dire negative consequences as long as they sound nice and egalitarian. Supid people tend to be more selfish.
Also, this disparity has increased since the 60s, possibly due to more opportunities for smart right wingers in private industry or because of the long march through the institutions that commies instigated.

[Anonymous No.10393197]

>>10393150
Nice thumbnail dumb phoneposter

[Anonymous No.10393209]

Well I would say that, as a scientist, I am not stupid. Therefore, I don't make the assumption that socialism and communism are opposites of Capitalism, so I don't use one to defend the other.
However, I also have enough math to know a non-conservative, non-ergodic, non-Martingale model when I see one, and so I definitely see the scam of Capitalism, without ever having to bring up socialism at all.

Next, I have had to publish enough peer reviewed material to know to be successful you can't have obscure definitions, and arbitrary assumptions and expect to get anywhere.

So I'll just come out and deny your whole argument.
#. Scientists aren't left leaning because "left" has no definition.
#. Scientist aren't capitalists or socialists or federalists or anything, because they know what bad management is when they see it, and know good management has nothing to do with ideology.
#. Scientists know that "proof" is only consistency, not applicability, and so never accept proof without both the math and the data, and even then keep an open mind to the exceptions.
#. Scientists know that just because you are good at one thing doesn't mean it translates to anything else, which is why they don't fall for "leadership" memes or other magical thinking stories of ideology or culture.

Lastly >>4chan.org/pol is that way. There is a reason 4channel.org is now separate.

[Anonymous No.10393241]

>>10393209
>There is a reason 4channel.org is now separate.
Yeah, newmoot wanted money.

[Anonymous No.10393251]

>>10393241

Fucking capitalist!

[Anonymous No.10393259]

>>10393134
I'm also from Central Europe and you're clueless. During socialism we were poor, but we had first world level healthcare and education systems. Now we are even poorer, but with third world tier healthcare and education systems.

>we have some real prosperity compared to 40 years ago
That's why millions of Poles flee Poland to the UK, Germany, and elsewhere?

[Anonymous No.10393262]

>>10393124
>*sends a young politician to the gulag for the rest of his life for not clapping emphatically enough at the soviet*
>*makes it illegal to criticize literally anything to do with the state*
Imagine being this stupid. None of those things actually happened, brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10393265]

>>10393127
>what's your point

[Anonymous No.10393277]

>>10393259
Compared to when they fled despite the country doing everything it can to prevent fleeing? To people stealing Eastern German airplanes just to flee to Eastern Berlin? Yes it's a lot better. At least meat is a product you can actually access in a store, back in the day it was only available in Silesia and Warsaw, and not always either. The reason we're behind the West is communism set us back.

[Anonymous No.10393297]

>>10393209
> Well I would say that, as a scientist, I am not stupid. Therefore...

Did you just appeal to your own authority as a scientist... in general? You being a scientist has nothing to do with your literacy on the topic and the garbled argument that followed is evidence of that.

[Anonymous No.10393316]

>>10392698
>Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists?
Because public research doesn't pay well, so they have to rely on government gibs. The very fact they have to pay to get published in paywall-protected journals thay don't even pay them back is proof the system is fucked up. They should really consider flipping standard journals off and finding a way to do private yet open research instead.

[Anonymous No.10393322]

>>10392698
>Why are so many scientists left-leaning, often to the point of being outright socialists or even communists

its easy to be liberal when everyone around you is smart and bourgeoisie

[Anonymous No.10393357]

>>10393262
>None of those things actually happened, brainlet.
Oh my sweet summer child.

[Anonymous No.10393368]

>>10393209
>There is a reason 4channel.org is now separate.
Yeah. To separate the sfw and nsfw boards onto different domains for the sake of advertisements. What did you think the reason was?

[Anonymous No.10393383]

>>10393297

Not him but by that logic your appeal to ignorance makes you no better to provide a suitable argument to his or op's assertions.

[Anonymous No.10393395]

>>10393129
>Because everyone was dead or in the goolags.
This must be a troll. Nobody can seriously be this stupid.

[Anonymous No.10393404]

> being this stupid >>10393297

The irony of not reading the whole post, and of not understanding it, and not seeing how it literally says that being good at one thing doesn't make you good at other things, then falsely attributing identify oneself as the subject of OPs post as being an appeal to authority....

[Anonymous No.10393408]

>>10393265
you're a sad little man

[Anonymous No.10393411]

>>10393277
>At least meat is a product you can actually access in a store
Only if you escape the horror of unemployment, and only if a capitalist gives you enough money to survive in exchange for exploiting you.

Poland used to produce lots of science and mathematics research. Now, all the high IQ scientists and doctors fled the country to the West.

[Anonymous No.10393418]

>>10393357
>>10393408
Imagine being so low IQ and incapable of critical thinking that you never question for a moment anything you are told by corporate news and corporate think tanks.

[Anonymous No.10393426]

>>10393418
KEK

[Anonymous No.10393428]

>source: nkvd

[Anonymous No.10393432]

>>10393426
>KEK
>you're a sad little man
>Oh my sweet summer child.
These kinds of responses are a sign that you've lost the argument

[Anonymous No.10393438]

>>10393428
>source: CIA

[Anonymous No.10393451]

>>10393411
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, they only did so in modern times because it was impossible in a political system that prevented you from visiting any western country in fear of you fleeing?

[Anonymous No.10393454]

>>10393438
Your reddit meme needs more jpg

[Anonymous No.10393457]

>>10393265
Based and juchepilled
>>10393127
>Socialism literally ruined the whole Eastern Europe
The continous assault of the Jewish capitalists and their American imperialist pigdogs upon the people ruined Eastern Europe*

[Anonymous No.10393459]

>>10393451
Have you considered that maybe, just maybe, they only did so in modern times because during socialism, the state provided a decent quality of life for scientists, mathematicians, and doctors, which made them content to live in their home country instead of fleeing a hellish capitalist dystopia?

https://www.tvn24.pl/tvn24-news-in-english,157,m/poverty-in-poland-is-still-a-big-issue-noble-gift-charity-report,887794.html

>Over a million children in Poland live below the poverty level, according to a report by the Noble Gift charity (http://www.tvn24.pl)

I'm sure it's somehow socialism's fault that capitalism turned Eastern Europe into an Africa tier shithole.

[Anonymous No.10393481]

>>10392698
Because pure capitalism cannot have fundamental science.

Even worse, proposal rate race has been slowly but surely destroying science all together. It is not so distant in the future that science degrades into a state of something close pictured in Idiocracy.

[Anonymous No.10393489]

>>10393459
I dunno, have you tried asking the people working on the soviet nuclear program?
Oh that's right, they were rounded up in a city against their will and prohibited from contacting their loved ones, let alone shitposters on a basket weaving forum
Gee, they must have loved it

[Anonymous No.10393510]

>>10393459
>I'm sure it's somehow socialism's fault that capitalism turned Eastern Europe into an Africa tier shithole.

Eastern European here: dumbest thing I ever read. Eastern Europe post 1995 is the fastest developing major global region after China.