/sci/ - Science & Math

>is it basically the limitless pill?
It's more like an addicting autism pill that'll destroy your body in a mere decade of daily use

>>10385690
I was addicted for a while. Got it from a doctor but faked ADD to get the script.

>How does it make you feel?
Motivated. When you first start with it you do all the stuff you procrastinated doing. It's also a good party drug because I have bad social anxiety and adderall made me want to talk to people. It makes you into a fake normie.

The downside is the come down, which puts you into a funk. I would drink beer to offset the fall, and not wanting to come down caused me to raise my dose more and more.

> and is it basically the limitless pill?
While you do get a lot done on it and can seem a bit sharper, the bigger problem I noticed was that I'd hyper-focus on things. I would get hammered in the details and miss the big picture. Not going to lie and tell you that it isn't helpful for doing tedious work though, it's just everything you boost your body with you end up paying for at some point. I even damaged my wrist while on adderall because I worked on my computer so long and it causes you to clench so I strained some muscle that still acts up in my wrist.

I'm now drug free and life is a lot calmer. I'd recommend against getting on that train. Some people can just take a little of a drug, but you don't know who you are until it is too late.

>>10385690
Bump. I have severe ADHD and I am going to try to get meds soon.
>>10385701
Im not too worried about any of this, as it says "chronic abuse". If you don't abuse it, you should be fine.
>>10385881
> It makes you into a fake normie.
Damn, I did not know about this. I suppose it would be okay, as I don't have any friends.

>>10385890
>Im not too worried about any of this, as it says "chronic abuse". If you don't abuse it, you should be fine.
"Abuse" in this case is referring to daily use. You're not supposed to take this for more than a couple months.
Though it is relatively benign if you only use it on special occasions.

>>10385892
What? How do you know abuse is referring to daily use and only that? Therapeutic doses are fine (there may be some issues, but nothing matching the severity of that image ).

It makes you feel like you are a god of knowledge, and that you've figured out the secrets of the universe.

Then for about 3 times as long as the high lasts, you feel compelled to do nothing but cry.

Also the work you do while high is shit anyway. Just stick with self discipline instead.

>>10385690
people I've known who take these kinds of meds get scary when they go off them. my feeling is they make you more like a machine, and stunt your creativity and emotional development. I think it's important mentally to experience boredom once in awhile, especially in childhood, and add medication takes that away.

>>10385690
Never done it, and don't plan to (the most I'll try is modafinil), but amphetamines (Adderall) are neurotoxic even at therapeutic doses. It really only matters if you're using it for years, but it damages dopaminergic neurons, possibly damaging your very ability to feel motivated without it. It's much more productive to make the conscious effort to practice your focus and self discipline (like all things, they are skills that can be trained).

>>10385938
I have add, and "practicing foucs" simply cannot be done. I am, however, worried about neurotoxicity. Should I go off of my medication? Can you link me any sources?

>>10385974
a big part of practicing focus is getting out of the fucking house and doing physical activity. it is not natural to make little boys sit at a desk for 8 hours and then sit at a different desk for 2 hours when they go home. children are not bureaucrats.

>>10385986
But I don't sit at a desk for eight hours, and I'm not a child. I have had this my whole life, and I still do. I couldn't even read before I started taking medicine. I simply do not possess ability to concentrate.

>>10385938
Former cocaine and adderall/concerta addict here, this guys right. You are not an exception despite your belief or knowledge of your own genius, trust me. You will get accelerated thinking capability and creativity, arguably productivity as well for a few weeks. Tolerance will build and your mind and body will start to fail until you are hallucinating or becoming schizo.

I dont not recommend it though but this is the truth. You may not come back and may lose yourself. Good luck

>>10385992
well I do not mean this advice for everyone. some people have actual problems. you might be one of them. but if you want to attempt to "practice focus" this is how I'd go about it. also by easing into difficult activites like reading with a regular progressive schedule and by rewarding yourself systematically for the completion of tasks.

OP here. Seems like the average opinion here is that it's not good for long-term use. Any good alternative alternatives?

>>10385701
This, I speak from experience. Dont use adderall.

>>10385881
Pic related.

Memes aside I need to get a dose increase since 10 mg isn't having any effect on my ADHD. But, I've heard that the neurotoxicity at therapeutic doses can be mitigated slightly with antioxidant intake.

>>10386170
any proof that it causes neurotoxicity?

I was prescribed Adderall and holy shit is it terrible. It strips you away of all your emotions and turns you into a robot NPC normie

>>10386022
https://thethirdwave.co/microdosing-adhd/

>>10385701
This, and you’re about as likely to impair yourself abusing it anyway. Even in moderation it’s not gonna be a boost for long.

>>10385938
Neuroscience PhD here can confirm this

>>10386170
I went from adderall to come back to adderall and finally to meth. Got me to a good research position but I was lucky to be able to get off it I think.

>>10386276
did you try any other meds like vyvanse? or did you just give up on stimulant treatment?

>>10386183
Yes literally just go to ncbi or google scholar or pinned or some shit and search “amphetamine + neurotoxicity”. You’ll probably be able to find papers about plenty of other deleterious effects as well.

>>10385701
This. Stimulants fucked me up senpai. Why would we anybody ever give it to a child is beyond me. Shit was dandy the first 3-4 months but afterwards i couldn’t function without the pill. It’s been 5 years since I last took adderal and my attention span is still fucked from it.

I more than doubled my salary in my four years of adderall. I also nearly died, wrecked my family, got locked up in a psych ward. I'm off it now, I still have my dream job and seem to be working things out with the senpai. So it worked out pretty well for me in the end, but it was a hell of a ride that could have derailed at any time.

>>10386295
Vyvanse was better, but not by much. For some reason the psychiatrist I was seeing prescribed me 60 mg a day (Adderall and then Vyvanse) which is an insane dose for a kid. I wasn't sleeping for 48 hours after taking it. I remember just laying in bed on the come down for hours, unable to fall asleep and feeling absolutely terrible. I would also get paranoid that the government was spying on my Internet use. I would go to Task Manager and delete every operation that looked "suspicious", thinking it was some NSA spying software.

I'm not sure if I even have ADHD. My main symptoms are absent mindedness and disorganization.

>>10386388
Damn. Sorry that happened to you

>>10386394
Every cloud has a silver lining. While I was on adderall, I read thousands of Wikipedia articles. I would have been less educated without adderall coming in my life.

>>10385690
https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/03/01/2016-nootropics-survey-results/

>>10385701
wtf is this fucking bullshit chart

These are prescribed medications at therapeutic doses and the short and long-term effects are well documented. I personally am prescribed methylphenidate and it has changed my life, I love it. Went from unorganized as fuck making a mistake on every question to being the best student in the class. I'm actually upset my class is full of brainlets.

>>10386440
I'm actually better off the drug as well on days I don't take it because it has helped shape my habits.

>>10386434
>reddit

Shit this thread scares me. I've been on addys for about 10 months now. Should I tell my doc I wanna go back to Focalin?

Is focalin just as bad?

>>10385690
Don't do it. It will completely fuck up your reward center and make you depressed when you eventually have to quit because of high blood pressure.

>>10386574
Just dont take them every day, only the days you have to

i have add/adhd and have been using vyvanse and adderall for years. got to college and started abusing them while in my math degree. i think i fucked myself my i dont know how to tell, is there any possible way to get back to a clearer state of mind??? fuuuck these threads give me anxiety

>>10386601
and* i dont know how to tell

>>10386440
>>10386445
sorry to break it to you but if everyone else in your class was as weak as you and used stimulants for academic success you'd be back to your subpar scores...

the drug does the work for you and you cant function without it. In my eyes your skills are depndent on a substance and therefore not reliable, I wouldn't trust you with anything serious and neither does society.

>>10385938
no wonder pro-gamers I know that take it are like zombies when anyone is trying to talk to them.

>>10386600
I only take em when I go to school.

>>10386619
Zombies how so? I find myself much more social and confident when taking them.

It's when I'm off them that I feel fatigued and a zombie

>>10385974
A bit of a late reply but whatever

https://www.oxfordtreatment.com/adderall/neurotoxicity/
That's one source I found with a quick Google search, you can find dozens of nih studies by googling "neurotoxicity of amphetamines". Also, I can attest that practicing focus can be done because I've done it. I used to be completely incapable of focusing for long periods of time and up until last year I had not developed my focus whatsoever. Over the course of a year I literally spent my days trying to focus my attention on tasks for as long as possible every day. I kind of took it to an extreme, but it worked, and now I have self discipline.

>>10386608
Your skills are also dependent on a substance: the food and water you ingest on a daily basis. I really think you should cut back on this substance abuse completely, or else I can't trust you with any serious work, sorry.

>>10386608
hurr durr i don't read the literature, can't cite a single source and regurgitate bullshit.

While methylphenidate has been shown to slightly improve cognitive facilities it's main therapeutic benefit can be seen in helping those with ADHD/ADD which is what it's prescribed for...

>>10386917
So this is only really applying to if you abuse it? If you stick to q prescription you should be ok right?

>>10385690
It's effectively cocaine and you are kidding yourself if you think it isn't neurotoxic

>>10385690
Makes you feel accelerated and sociable. Suppresses divergent thinking in favor of convergent thinking, ie interpolation and deduction with current set vs extrapolation. Made my resting heart rate sit at around 125 bpm regardless of dose. Also made me feel cold and eventually knocked out fine motor function. Long term use cripples working memory and messes with your attentional allocation. This took over a year to wear off.

It's a tool and not a very good one. I used to occasionally get a craving for it, but knew I wouldn't really want it even if I had it in my hand. This went away.

Worth noting is a dose of 60mg eventually had me entering amphetamine psychosis.

Adderall is fucking pseudoscience.
Ah, but Desoxyn... there's a REAL nootropic

>>10385690
try desoxyn... now there's a REAL nootropic

>>10386434
Just looked into Semax and based on the literature it seems worth trying for a student like me. Anyone know if this vendor is any good?
https://amphx.com/semax/

>>10387883
Why do "the Russians" seem to be better at everything?

More and better drugs, better technology, "authoritarian" culture that happens to not devolve into mediocrity at every turn. Certainly they have their own propaganda and lies, but nothing like the west.

Just took 500 mg of phenibut. Another great substance we wouldn't have without them Ruskiis.

taking 20mg for add right now

i dont feel shit and it doesnt help me at all

>>10387903
Because of the Soviet Union, anon.

>>10387903
Phenibut's great but we have gabapentin and that's kinda better and less addicting. I got prescribed it after using phenibut for a few years and I'd recommend it over phenibut just bc phenibut wd is such a pain and gabapentin's easier to use in moderation.

>>10385690
enjoy your heart problems and ruined brain

>>10387382
No it's still toxic anon

>>10387883
id be worried about semax. ACTH stimulates cortisol production, which may lead to massive adrenal issues (addisons disease) with chronic use.

>>10385881
>faked ADD
When will this meme end? There is no agreed upon etiology of ADHD and most psychiatrists are of the opinion it is a catch-all, applied to correct any executive dysfunction for cover of prescribing of CNS stimulants. It can be prescribed to healthy individuals without any harm. The notion that there is a distinct ADD/ADHD brain is a myth. If you're faking it, most physicians are already well aware, which is a good thing. Cosmetic psychiatry is eugenic.

>>10388286
>When will this meme end? There is no agreed upon etiology of ADHD and most psychiatrists are of the opinion it is a catch-all, applied to correct any executive dysfunction for cover of prescribing of CNS stimulants. It can be prescribed to healthy individuals without any harm. The notion that there is a distinct ADD/ADHD brain is a myth. If you're faking it, most physicians are already well aware, which is a good thing. Cosmetic psychiatry is eugenic.
I agree 100%. Fortunately, I think the meme will end soon. Psychiatry is mostly kept alive but the ignorance of the sheepish boomers. They will die off in the next few decades and psychiatry will die with them. As much as Millennials and Gen Z have problems, we tend to be much more skeptical of such pseudoscience.

>>10388352
>As much as Millennials and Gen Z have problems, we tend to be much more skeptical of such pseudoscience.
Coming from the generation that invented 1000 genders

>>10388391
That's all millennial/gen X cat ladies though.

>>10388394
That's true. I have to admit I have a bit of hope for the zeds

>>10386022
Take a concerted effort to work on your concentration and self-discipline (and diet, exercise, yadda yadda). Make a daily schedule and force yourself to do one thing at a time. Other than that, if you're *that* compelled to use drugs, modafinil seems much safer than amphetamines. Or better yet just stick to caffeine.

>>10388352
I said it was cosmetic, not superfluous. So we quite clearly do not agree.

>>10388286
>he makes stuff up
>he doesn't even read the literature
this website is garbage

>>10388687
It used to be much better, it really did. I first came here ~2008 and mostly browsed /b/ initially. This place had a lot of interesting conversation and real character. This was near the end of when the internet felt like the wild west.

The underlying seeds of what it would become could still be felt because they were acting on everything, everywhere. But still, it did used to be different.

>>10386979
this isnt a thread about real issues bro, noone here has ADHD, all you do is have to much time

>>10386966
We need food and water to live, we dont need psychopharmaka to live.

Why is modern society so reliant on these pills? There must be a reason every other kid needs these to succeed. Is the education system faulty? Is it the sugar? Smartphones?

>>10389161
Read Industrial society and its consequences

>>10389161
Brain damage. Early umbilical clamping, vitamin K (aluminum), vaccines, fluoride, and wireless devices. Bad food and failure of gut flora and the intestinal barrier also plays in, along with collapse of family and community structure leading to children spending more time with braindead perverse media which advocates this kind of behavior.

>>10389161
positive feedback. when one kid gets on performance enhancers all the other kids have to join in or they'll fall behind. eventually so many children are on the stuff that the normal kids are outliers and get diagnosed too.

>>10386917
>googling
Please avoid using the term “google” as a verb, meaning to search for something on the internet. “Google” is just the name of one particular search engine among others. We suggest to use the term “search the web” or (in some contexts) just “search”. Try to use a search engine that respects your privacy; for instance, searx.me.

>>10388687
>>he makes stuff up
And yet you failed to delineate what.
>he doesn't even read the literature
Ad hominem implying an appeal to ignorance.
>this website is garbage
Look in the mirror. You're the one who wrote an unsubstantiated reply, which looks more like a strong emotional reaction than actual critique. Surefire sign of a brainlet is they usually say "this is bullshit", and walk away.

>>10385701
I've been taking adderall for about 10 years and I'm just fine. The key is that I've never abused it, and I only take it when I need it, some days I only take half of the doseage. This shit has saved my ass. The people that fuck themselves up generally take higher and higher doses, don't sleep, and most likely don't even have ADHD in the first place.

>>10389534
Even at prescribed doses it will fuck you up from daily use. You're in the minority though. Self-moderating doses and only taking it when you "need" it will substantially decrease the negative side effects.
>and most likely don't even have ADHD in the first place.
The negative side effects observed are identical between those diagnosed and not.

Be honest with yourself, I told my psychiatrist that I need it for school but didn’t want to build a tolerance. she gave me 10mg last year. I use 5 mg every other day and sometimes I feel like 5 is too much. I skip the weekends when its a non test week. I’m happy with the results but it takes discipline. i have a tremendous backsupply and could easily abuse it but I know it takes so little to raise my dependency, I just hide the pills. Goodluck tho op start low

>>10389507
No, fuck you. Google is a verb in modern vernacular.

>>10387382
Nope. Maybe if you only take it like once a month you can mitigate it but like I said, even at the prescribed dose its neurotoxic if you take it consistently over long periods of time.

>>10386388
Well you were right about the government spying on you.

>>10386917
Any tips on developing your focus? I do meditation, but maybe you know something else?

>>10389507
What about yandex.ru? Startpage or duckduckgo?

Unfortunately aside from yandex, every other search engine is junk is most contexts. Unless it's something the power structure doesn't want you to know.

how is adderall compared to vyvanse (lisdxamfetamine)?

I take a 20mg under my tongue and it makes me study physics for 8 hours straight

Just quit the internet bro.
That will be a better solution to your concentration issues than amphetamines.

>>10391635
You know this guy might be on to something.

If you actually have ADD, keep ONLY to the prescribed dose while getting into a cardio exercise regiment. This helps long term neurotoxicity issues. Do NOT go binging and popping 3x your prescribes dose to party. God forbid if you do that and drink a lot of alcohol.
If you don’t legitimately have ADD, do NOT fucking take adderall. Don’t be a dumb shit.
I can’t wait for the day that I can replace this pill with a simple implant in my head.

>>10385892
Basically yeah, stay the fuck away from it if you have heart/blood issues.
IDC much because I use it sparingly and I have chronic hypotension (good genes, I guess), so it doesn't pose much risk, but I still am aware to the possible dangers...

>>10386600
THIS.
I only take them when prepping for exams/for the exams themselves, and use them sparingly throughout the semester (when I can't overcome my ADD symptoms through the sheer will and pure autism).

>>10387533
>125bpm
Dude, that's high.
I hardly go over 90-ish while taking it, then again, my heart rate usually drops to the low 70s/high 60s...

>>10389602
Sort of in a similar situation.
Was kinda funny when i went in to fill my prescription last time and the pharmacist was surprised that the last time I got from that pharmacy was about a year ago, and when he checked he was kinda shocked that I got only 4 out of my 12 allotted prescriptions in a year.
Like, what the fuck?! If i have ADD that means I can't have some self-discipline??

>>10390104
This
Fuck those glow-in-the-dark CIA Niggers.

>>10392411
Yep, it sucked man. Happened both with and without levoamphetamine, so it wasn't norepinephrine based.

>>10388352
Smoothbrain af response. It's clear you have no idea what you're typing. Stick to lurking unless you have an education on the topic. No, /pol/ is not education.

>>10392251
>I can’t wait for the day that I can replace this pill with a simple implant in my head.
same. when is this coming? 15 years?

>>10385690
just turns your dick off so you can focus on something that's not sex

>>10387533
there's your fucking problem brainlet
>Worth noting is a dose of 60mg eventually had me entering amphetamine psychosis.

keep your tolerance low, start with 2mg and if you get to the point where 10mg does nothing then TAKE A TOLERANCE BREAK

>>10389507
Shut up autist, its obvious what it means and what It could imply