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/sci/ - Science & Math


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10377682 No.10377682 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

...where are they?

>> No.10377683

hiding from us.

>> No.10377690
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10377690

Trembling.

>> No.10377699

Visible stars are proof that we are alone. If advanced aliens existed all stars would have been either stored or used by dyson swarms by now. Therefor they are proof that we are alone.

>> No.10377722
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10377722

>>10377699
>it's another dysonfag episode

>> No.10377727

The truth is Earth was isolated from other civilizations because humanity is actually retarded.

>> No.10377861

>>10377699
Dyson swarms are a horrible waste of ressource. To create a 100% coverage dyson swarm around the sun you would need up around 1% of the ressources there are in our solar system. Now those panels wont last long and you can't recycle them with 100% efficiency. Lets say they have a life cycle of 20 years and recycle efficiency of 90%. It means you would run through the whole ressources of the solar system in only 20.000 years. Even if you put the recycle efficiency at 99% and the life cycle at 100 years thats still only 1.000.000 years before you literally run out of ressources.

Compare that to instead use the ressources in the solar system to burn in nuclear fusion plants and harness the energy directly. Because of e=mc2, you will end up with magnitudes of energy more because you are using the ressources to create energy directly instead of indirectly capturing energy from the sun.

>> No.10377878

The Great Filter is a terrible thing.

>> No.10377893
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10377893

How much energy could we get from paving over the African continent with solar panels?

>> No.10379396
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10379396

>>10377682
They are chilling inside computer simulations that simulate a perfect word for them until the end of time.

Why the fuck would you bother with the boring dead ass universe when ucan literally do anything you want in your own simulation?

>> No.10379401
File: 110 KB, 1280x1024, james_webb_space_telescope.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10379401

>>10377682
>>10377683
>>10377690
>>10377699
>>10377722
>>10377727
>>10377861
>>10377878
>>10377893
>>10379396
There is no Fermi paradox, why?
Let's start by saying that observable universe itself is massive with a radius of 46.5 billion light-years, or a diameter of 93 billion light-years, and we haven't even explored or mapped 1% of that.
Now, for the main crux of the issue for those who understand the massive nature of it, why we haven't received any artificial radio signals, other than the Wow! signal, is because of signal attenuation. By the time signals get here, they're too weak to be picked up by our current technology.
As for why they haven't replied to any of the signals we've either consciously or ambiently sent is, again, due to the massive nature of the observable universe.
We have only been broadcasting radio signals into the universe for around 100 years, that is to say, those radio signals will have only travelled 100 light-years, which isn't really any great distance, and may have passed by exoplanets with extraterrial life that wasn't intelligent enough to receive them.
Part of the way we might be able to mitigate these issues is through the creation of equipment like the James Webb Space Telescope, that will allow us to collect and analyze more data from stars and their exoplanets.
Just wait, we're going to find something.

>> No.10380443

>>10377682
>>(((they)))
you know (((where)))

>> No.10380450

>>10380443
I'm literally an Ashkenazi Jew with ties to Israeli politicians and if I told them about a conspiracy or aliens they would first laugh at me. Then say "anon are you serious?" then take me to a mental hospital.

I never know if I should be offended or flattered by the insane mystical powers and prowess you guys invent for us.

>> No.10380452

>>10380450
British Ashkenazi here, and I agree, they seem to think we're somehow able to keep this 2,000 year conspiracy going, yet most human empires fall within a couple of centuries (and that's without having to keep them secret).

>> No.10380555

>>10377699
Dark matter is actually dyson swarm captured stars.
Prove me wrong.

>> No.10380566

>>10380555
Dark matter doesn't emit infrared light like dyson swarms would have to do due to entropy. Basically disproving that they are dyson swarms.

>> No.10380584

They evolved into the next dimension.

>> No.10380595

>>10380566
You're assuming that the dyson swarms are so inefficient that we would be able to detect their infrared output from here.

>> No.10380604

>>10380595
You underestimate how high the output of stars are. Even if they are extremely efficient the minimum amount of infrared waste energy they would produce is brighter than other infrared signals we can already detect multiple galaxies away for scientific reasons.

When hubble was launched we specifically searched for infrared that would come off from dyson swarms in the nearest million galaxies and we found nothing. Concluding that there aren't any dyson swarms build. Entropy mandates a certain percentage of energy will always go towards waste heat which in the vacuum of space will result in infrared radiation. So we know exactly how much and what type of infrared they would give off. And we found nothing.

We are alone because stars are visible.

>> No.10380610

>>10377682
1. Life is insanely rare
2. Intelligent life is spread extremely thin
3. The distances between intelligent life is incomprehensibly vast
4. Imtelligent life becomes more intelligent exponentially. Meaning the period in which an intelligent civilization is broadcasting radio waves is very small, probably a few thousand years at the absolute most.
5. Intelligent life either becomes far more intelligent than us very quickly, and thus is too advanced for us to comprehend, or dies off quickly.

>> No.10380618

>>10380604
>Entropy mandates a certain percentage of energy will always go towards waste heat which in the vacuum of space will result in infrared radiation.
They'd just capture that waste heat because if it's enough to be detected light years away then it's worth something.

>> No.10380625

>>10380450
>>10380452
Ayylmaos in defense mode

>> No.10380681

>>10380618
Nigga that is impossible due to entropy. At a certain point you will use up more energy trying to capture the waste energy so it's not worth it. Which is why there will be visible infra red radiation.

>> No.10380727

>>10377682
IRAS-based whole-sky upper limit on Dyson spheres

Richard A Carrigan Jr
The Astrophysical Journal 698 (2), 2075, 2009

On the search for artificial Dyson-like structures around pulsars

Zaza Osmanov
International Journal of Astrobiology 15 (2), 127-132, 2016

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/international-journal-of-astrobiology/article/on-the-search-for-artificial-dysonlike-structures-around-pulsars/F81897B07199173A573226D4DC8B77A7/core-reader

Recently an interest to such an ambitious idea has significantly increased: a couple of years ago Carrigan has published an article titled: ‘IRAS-based whole sky upper limit on Dyson spheres’ (Carrigan 2009), where he considered the results of the instrument The Infrared Astronomical Satellite (IRAS). This satellite covered almost 96% of the sky, implying that this is almost whole sky monitoring. According to the study, the searches have been conducted as for fully as for partially cloaked Dyson spheres. The search has revealed 16 Dyson sphere candidates, but the author pointed out that further investigation must have been required.

>> No.10380733

>>10377682
META I and META 2 SETI search discovered numerous possible ET signals, but as they weren’t repeating ones they can’t be confirmed

>> No.10380739

>>10380681
>At a certain point you will use up more energy trying to capture the waste energy so it's not worth it. Which is why there will be visible infra red radiation.
Just not enough to be detected from light years away.

>> No.10380751

>>10380739
Nigga there are calculations done on this based on the energy output of stars and the rate of entropy. The amount of infrared coming off will be higher than other things we are looking at intergalactically.

Why are you so dense on this topic? It's not even like scientists are considering this option. It's a shut and closed case.

>> No.10380767

>>10380751
>The amount of infrared coming off will be higher than other things we are looking at intergalactically.
Then it would still be worth collecting.

>> No.10380819

>>10380767
Holy shit no it isn't. Why isn't it because it's spread over a large area and inconsistent within a dyson swarm. You'd basically have to build another layer over it to collect the waste heat which would release waste heat itself eventually you come to the point where it doesn't make sense to collect it and THIS is the value we are looking for. The point where it doesn't make sense to collect the wasteheat anymore. And we didn't detect it (Hubble is more than 100x powerful enough to detect such radiation)

>> No.10380836

>>10380604
>We are alone because stars are visible.

No, because dyson swarms are an incredibely wasteful way to exhaust the ressources of a solar system. You go through the whole mass of the solar system within a couple of millenias just to keep some incredibely oversized solar farm going. It's retarded and no species would every seriously consider building one.

>> No.10380867

>>10380819
>You'd basically have to build another layer over it to collect the waste heat which would release waste heat itself eventually you come to the point where it doesn't make sense to collect it and THIS is the value we are looking for.
Which is a value below detection.

>> No.10380879

>>10380867
No, it isn't. You retards are talking about turning whole planets into solar panels that will last a couple of years. Nothing of this makes any sense.

>> No.10381148

>>10380836
Letting stars burn randomly is even more wasteful so either way stars shouldn't be burning.

>> No.10381247

>>10377682
Civilisations rise and fall in the blink of an eye. As soon as they industrialise, the clock starts ticking, and they burn out their homeworld in a few centuries. After that, they regress to primitive barbarism and become undetectable. No civilisation ever lasts long enough to make contact with another.

>> No.10381260
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10381260

>>10377682
They realized that real world sucks and uploaded their minds into VR world where they can fuck anime waifus for eternity

>> No.10381272

>>10381148
What the fuck are you talking about.

Even if there is a species that was so retarded to build a dyson sphere the material of the whole solar system will be used up and after that it will have to gradually shrink the dyson sphere and after awhile there is nothing there anymore that would block the sun form us. This all would take a few million years at best which is nothing compared to the life span of a star. So in fact, even if there were species so incredibely retarded do build dyson spheres we would still be able to see all stars.

>> No.10381306

>>10381272
Building a dyson sphere around our sun only takes up 80% of the Material of only the planet Mercury.

>> No.10381347

>>10381306
And how long do you think it will last before you have to replace the whole thing?

>> No.10381366

>>10381347
If you are smart you will have a dyson swarm which is a large array of large satellites and once one needs to be replaced you salvage the materials and manufacture a new one. You could also straight up starlift matter away from the star to build new ones. I'm assuming the technology of a civilization with the raw power of a star is advanced enough for transmutation of the elements.

>> No.10381372

>>10381366
100% recycling is physically impossible.

>> No.10381386

>>10381260
>determine entropy is unstoppable
>heat death determined to be ultimate end of universe
>no loopholes like pocket universes to get around it
>but in the waifuverse we don't need to think about any of that

>> No.10381399

>>10381372
Did you even bother to read? You'd salvage the satellite then use starlifting for the extra materials you need. Starlifting is the process of gathering matter from a star. Using the energy from the star you can easily transmutate the matter into whatever type of matter you want to turn it. Or you keep the 20% of Mercury that you have left to slowly over time repair it. But it's not like you'd run out of matter because you can grab most of it from sun if needed.

>> No.10381401

>>10381386
They would still gather all stars in the visible universe to power their VR simulation as long as possible and enlarge their existence as far as possible without fixing entropy.

Stars being visible in the sky means there is no species capable of doing so yet and therefor we are the only technological species.

>> No.10381406

>>10381401
there is no reason for anyone to do this.
You are thinking like a caveman who believes advanced tribe will burn all trees in forest

>> No.10381448

>>10381401
Why would you need the energy of 300 sextillion stars for an advanced video game? One would be more than enough

>> No.10381561

>>10381399
Or you could figure out fusion instead of chaining yourself to such an inefficient system

>> No.10381568

>>10381406
This

>> No.10381579

>>10381401
>to power their VR simulation as long as possible and enlarge their existence as far as possible
Why? At that point why would they even continue to reproduce? What if all their best minds decided "things will only get worse, we might as well go out having fun" and were the first to be fully immersed in their creation?

>> No.10381592

>>10381399
Mining the sun is even more inefficient because of the insane amounts of energy you need to get just one ton out of its gravity well. Your whole argumentation is simply retarded as fuck.

>> No.10381662

>>10381401
VR requires a lot less energy that a real civilization. 1 year in VR can also be a second of real time if the tech is good enough. You produce some bots that casually spread and gather more energy or materials and bring them back but a solar system or two would last a very long time

>> No.10381665

>>10381561
You'd still extinguish all stars in the universe because letting them burn is wasting away energy towards entropy that you will have to use in the very long term. Since matter and energy are limited. So a fusion power using civilization would still store all matter of stars somewhere instead of letting them burn and waste millions of years worth of energy consumption every day
>>10381448
You don't need it now but you want to exist for as long as possible as an evolved species since that is the purpose of life, survival. Therefor a rational species will try to ration all matter and energy for as efficient use as possible. Letting stars burn is the equivalent of shortening the lifespan of your own civilzation. Therefor a civilization that is advanced enough to store the matter within stars or build dyson swarms would immediately do so as fast as possible.
>>10381406
Entropy is universal anon. Even if the species has a far more superior energy generation method the waste of letting stars burn is still contributing towards entropy and if the species lives long enough they WILL eventually need those precious joules since they are inherently limited as there is a limited amount of matter and energy in the universe.
>>10381579
If they have that advanced of VR they will have automated probes doing all that work for them anyway. Them living in the VR as long as possible would be the ultimate goal at that point. Extinguishing all stars in the universe and gathering that material or dyson swarms for power will happen as it's just the most rational thing to do
>>10381592
The sun pushes the material outwards on its own, you just need to collect it.

TL;DR: There can't be a technologically advanced species in existence as long as stars are visible in the universe.

>> No.10381691

>>10377682
All over the universe not giving a shit about some cavemen who can't even conquer their own solar system.

>> No.10381692

>>10377690
The Emperor protects!

>> No.10381697

>>10377699
>muh dyson

Orbital rings are the largest useful superstructures. Dyson shit makes no sense.

>> No.10381698

>>10379396
I can't wait to have my perfect simulation to live in, this one sucks ass

>> No.10381717

>>10381665
The universe is young and full of resources Anon, infinite as far as we know at least in terms of space and extension, what makes you think any spacefaring species is even worried about that sort of thing atm, our own species can't plan for more than a few thousand years at best, and even if we manage to figure out a way to travel FTL I suspect hoarding star energy will be of relevance for us for a long time, not when you might as well figure more efficient ways to use it therefore lowering your needs for Dyson solutions

>> No.10381729

>>10381698
>What if you're already simulating your won life Anon
>What if the real you thought it wise to live your reality as it is rn
>What does that mean for the other reality if what you think sucks now is what you thought preferable then

>> No.10381746

>>10381697
Dyson swarms. Not dyson spheres. Dyson swarms are just millions of satellites orbiting the star to capture 100% of its output minus waste heat. Easily repairable and technically feasible over time.

>>10381717
Entropy means matter and energy are limited and will eventually run out. Thus it makes rational sense if you have the ability to do so especially if you have automated self-replicating probes to send them out to extinguish all stars since every day they are burning away millions of years of potential existence away.

Why would you let them burn? Basically there is no effort involved you just send 1 probe out that uses the planets around the star to build dyson swarms or extinguish the star in another way. There's absolutely no rational reason for the species to choose to let the stars burn at this point.

If there is a species advanced enough to pull this off the stars would disappear. But the stars are still visible thus there are no advanced species in the universe.

>> No.10381760

>>10377682

Here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQE6qkwfaGo&t=14s

listen to this guy without prejudice.

>> No.10381779

>>10381746
You assume those technologies will work as you intend to.
Maybe civilization who attempted self replicating robots ended up dead by their own creations grey goo style

Maybe their technology is not even following the same path ours is having and they won't even have such analogous in the first place

>Why would you let them burn?
Is akin to asking why don't we have a moon base or are doing all we can right now to have one? It would make economical sense, same as an space elevator, but we don't, yet those are realistic technologies we could attain within our lifetime, aliens might think it's not worth the trouble because there is no urgent need for it, and won't be for a very long time worrying mostly about the now and observable events of the future.
They might have found other sources of energy through the universe that are way more efficient than stars, say dark energy/matter antimatter magic ponies and they choose to gather such resource instead, you need to think outside of the box anon

>> No.10381805

>>10381779
It isn't relevant if they have better technology and better power generation.

Because entropy means that in the long run every piece of matter and energy is going to eventually end up entropic. This means that you need to extinguish all stars to maximize the amount of existence your species has.

No matter how powerful their technology becomes and what kind of power generation they use this remains true.

Imagine if Earth was the entire universe. Only Earth. We would have the Sun and our Planet. Imagine we have perfect technology. We would first use the power of the sun saying "why use oil when we have superior energy like the sun" once the sun burns out in billions of years we'd have to go back to using fusion power and nuclear power eventually back to natural gas and oil. Then to coal and then to burning wood until we would run out of resources to keep our existence going.

However going through those last power sources still gave us significant extra existence. Especially if we were just living in a VR and noticed nothing just that the VR lasted some extra million years or so.

It makes no sense for wasteful things such as stars to exist in a universe with advanced species. Visible stars are a direct confirmation that there are no technologically advanced species out there.

>> No.10381830

>>10381665
This is one of the dumbest posts I have ever read. Humans are technologically advanced yet we can still see stars and we will still see them million years from now.

>> No.10381837

>>10381805
Technology follows needs, the cold era of the universe is so far away from happening that in practical terms it might as well not exist, not everything is survival and resource gathering you know, you probably don't think too much about your 1000th descendant, why would they be any different?

>> No.10381902

>>10379401
>Let's start by saying that observable universe itself is massive with a radius of 46.5 billion light-years, or a diameter of 93 billion light-years, and we haven't even explored or mapped 1% of that.
That is one of the grossest misunderstandings of the Fermi Paradox I have ever seen.

>> No.10381965

>>10381830
>Humans are technologically advanced yet we can still see stars and we will still see them million years from now.

No we won't in a million years time we will have them all either encapsulated within dyson swarms or stored all their matter for potential future use.

Also technically we already started building a dyson swarm and obscuring 1 star since we already have satellites around our sun and over time the number will only grow and we aren't even multi-planetary yet.

>>10381837
The misconception you make is that it does take effort or consideration of some part. The only thing you need to do is make a Von Neumann probe and send it off to another star system with the task of replicating and extinguishing every star. It's like 1 button press not a whole planning session.

It just doesn't make sense for stars to be visible if there was any complex life out there.

Therefor there are no technologically advanced species out there besides humans

>> No.10381972
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10381972

Take the Greenpill, brainlets. The universe itself is a creation of the Earth - which is literally God. There is no other explanation, in the final analysis.

>> No.10381977

>>10381972
I'm going to break up your faggot Earth and use it to build dyson spheres around stars.

>> No.10381980

>>10381965
That's your scifi fantasy. There is no reason to think that dyson spheres are practical. Even if they were, million years would not be enough to do it throughout the galaxy. And even if that would someday be done there are galaxies billions of light years away that we will never be able to reach no matter what we do. Even if aliens were doing something like that right now we would not be able to see it for billions of years.

>> No.10381990

>>10381980
>Dyson spheres
never talked about spheres here. I said dyson swarms. Dyson swarms are just millions of satellites orbiting a star and capturing 100% of the star's output and losing a little to waste heat.

There's no technical hurdle because it's just normal satellites that we have already around the sun right now, just a fuckload of them instead.

Here's a calculation on how you could colonize the entire milky way galaxy in just 500,000 years using Von Neumann probes. The TL;DR of it is that you can send probes to multiple solar systems from one place and then from there it sends it to multiple as well which reduces the time to make every star in the galaxy into a dyson swarm or at least extinguish the stars only ~500,000 years.

About your last remark due to entropy dyson swarms would release waste heat in the form of a very specific infrared radiation which we actually looked for at the nearest million galaxies and didn't find with the hubble. There is no evidence that there is any dyson swarm contructed yet.

Basically there is no evidence of dyson swarms and there are stars visible in the sky. Conclusion is that we are the only technological species in the observable universe.

http://www.rfreitas.com/Astro/ComparisonReproNov1980.htm

>> No.10381997

>>10381990
Doesn't matter if it's sphere or swarm. The argument that technological civilizations can't exist because you can see stars is beyond retarded. We are here and so are stars. No civilization can ever reach all of universe without breaking the laws of the universe.

>> No.10382040

>>10381997
Fine let me rephrase that. From the start of the technological ability to build dyson swarms it will take 500,000 years for all stars in their galaxy to disappear

This means there is no technological species in the galaxy because we can still see all stars in our galaxy and there is no sign of any star disappearing so there is no technological species that has the ability to start building one like we do.

We still have 500,000 years to make all stars in the milky way galaxy disappear. And lo and behold we already have dozens of satellites around our star and we are barely beyond the industrial revolution that was about 150 years ago.

>> No.10382050

>>10382040
But that's ridiculous. Humanity is a space-faring civilization yet we haven't done any of that. If there are other aliens in the galaxy and they are looking at the stars thinking "wow look there are stars I guess there's nobody else but us lol" they would be completely wrong because we are here

>> No.10382084

>>10381977
If the Earth disappears, so will the universe.

>> No.10382423

>>10377893
that would be dark energy

>> No.10382459

>they don't think advanced civilizations wouldn't aim to feed all matter in the local cluster into appropriately sized black holes and non-fusing matter depots to store it for later
fuckin brainlets

>> No.10382468

>>10382459
>he thinks he understands the psychology and aims of millions of years more advanced godlike aliens
you're like a penguin trying to do nuclear physics

>> No.10382838

>>10381372
99.999998% recycling.

>> No.10382852
File: 158 KB, 480x800, Screenshot_2019-02-06-15-14-14.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10382852

>>10377682

>> No.10382874

>>10377682
hiding because they are smart

or they've all been reduced to a lower dimension by the highest order civilization still remaining, which is still in like 7d space in some distant galaxy

>> No.10382887

>>10377682
They're.... they... THAY'RE CALLING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!!!!! GET OUT, ANON!!!!!! GET OUT OF THE HOUSE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.10382890

>>10377682
they are just one hit of dmt away

>> No.10382896

Lifeforms as we understand them are unique to earth.

>> No.10382899

>there are no aliens
>god does not exist
>there is no such thing as ghosts

>> No.10382917

>>10382896
Please share data.

>> No.10382930
File: 82 KB, 511x122, revealedtomeinadream.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
10382930

>>10382917
Here you go.

>> No.10383030

>>10379401

COPE

>> No.10383402

>>10377682
They're just biosludge at the moment. We're the first.

>> No.10383484

>>10381990
How often does one have to tell you that Dyson swarms are absoluetely retarded? If you want to "collect the solar matter for later reuse" you just let it burn out and collect it later.

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