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/sci/ - Science & Math

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10372794

Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:30:32 2019 No.10372794 [Reply] [Original]

"Reality should be studied by physical scientists using the tools and methods of
the physical sciences, and there can be no better language for expressing their
findings than the language of physics. For after all, physics is the most
fundamental science, that to which all other sciences can supposedly be reduced."

But this gives rise to yet another problem: physics is not self-explanatory. If physics
is regarded as an expression of the structure of reality, then clearly it is real, and a
comprehensive theory of reality must explain its every part and aspect. But then in
order to qualify as a comprehensive theory of reality, physics must explain itself, its
correspondence to reality, and arguably the biological origins and mental activity of
physicists in whose minds it exists. In fact, physics as we know it can explain none of
these things, or even the natural law of which it supposedly consists. Such explanations
are prohibited by its methodology as encoded in the scientific method, according to
which it must constantly be tested by observation and experimentation.

>Technically, it is not permitted to depart from the world of the senses.

physics btfo

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:42:57 2019 No.10372828 MUDSHOVELMUDSHOVELMUDSHOVELMUDSHOVELMUDSHOVELMUDSHOVEL

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:51:02 2019 No.10372858 >>10372794 No formal system is self-explanatory, explanations reduce to primary concepts, which are unexplainable and can be understood only intuitively which is sometimes difficult when they are counterintuitive.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:52:00 2019 No.10372865 >>10372858 nice

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:54:13 2019 No.10372871 >>10372858 reality is fundamentally a language talking to itself about itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:57:04 2019 No.10372879 >>10372871 HOLY FUCKING SHIT, NICE. MOAR PL0X

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 17:59:18 2019 No.10372887 >>10372794 physicists have known this for the last century

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:00:54 2019 No.10372897 File: 774 KB, 966x470, 1533154484651.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10372887 then why hasnt a theory of everything ultimately comprising the self-referential nature emerged, or more aptly put, a mathematical metaphysics

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:01:50 2019 No.10372900 But mathematics are the very fundamentals, not physics

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:01:50 2019 No.10372901 >>10372794 I've developed severe intuition issues after taking up meditation as a practice. Now I don't understand numbers.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:02:52 2019 No.10372906 >>10372901 Intuition issues? Elaborate, anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:04:37 2019 No.10372915 >>10372871 Reality is fundamentally not a language. Language is how monkeys scream at each other.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:05:54 2019 No.10372918 >>10372915 you fundamentally misunderstand language then. sure that is a form of language that manifests itself through syntactical expression through a set of "symbols" yet expand this to a broader picture and you will begin to understand the truth

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:06:15 2019 No.10372921 >>10372794 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quine_%28computing%29

>>

Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:07:50 2019 No.10372931

>>10372897
theres plenty of theories like that

its philosphical in nature though

In developing the Participatory Anthropic Principle (PAP), an interpretation of quantum mechanics, Wheeler used a variant on Twenty Questions, called Negative Twenty Questions, to show how the questions we choose to ask about the universe may dictate the answers we get. In this variant, the respondent does not choose or decide upon any particular or definite object beforehand, but only on a pattern of "Yes" or "No" answers. This variant requires the respondent to provide a consistent set of answers to successive questions, so that each answer can be viewed as logically compatible with all the previous answers. In this way, successive questions narrow the options until the questioner settles upon a definite object. Wheeler's theory was that, in an analogous manner, consciousness may play some role in bringing the universe into existence.[79]

From a transcript of a radio interview on "The Anthropic Universe":

Wheeler: We are participators in bringing into being not only the near and here but the far away and long ago. We are in this sense, participators in bringing about something of the universe in the distant past and if we have one explanation for what's happening in the distant past why should we need more?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:08:25 2019 No.10372934 >>10372906 Primitives feel like a self deception now. It's very impractical.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:08:43 2019 No.10372936 >>10372918 please articulate what you can to help faggotboys like me understand things pl0x

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:08:53 2019 No.10372937 >>10372900 you mean logic

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:10:06 2019 No.10372944 >>10372900 >>10372937 correct, logic is the fundamental basis and precedent for all time, space and matter

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:11:35 2019 No.10372950 >>10372937 >>10372900 same problem though

>>

Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:21:17 2019 No.10372989

>>10372936
>>10372915

a lot of people think language is simply something that we speak that simply comes out of our mouth but it is infact an algebraic structure. it actually has elements of operations and its a form of algebra but its a very general form of algebra because anything that we can think about or formulate is obviously a language. it has to conform to the rules of language or otherwise its unintelligible so in a sense, language is the most general algebraic structure. therefore, when we talk about the most likely algebraic structure to apply to the universe as a whole, it definitely has to be language because its the most general. reality has to be a language.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 9 18:30:22 2019 No.10373028 >>10372989 A language for who? Or what? If language is communication, it must have been made for the purpose of communication. Who or what made reality? Who or what is using it to communicate and why?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:19:47 2019 No.10373773 >>10372794 not reading that shit sometimes its useful to have models for stuff moving around

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:22:24 2019 No.10373778 >>10372794 >er sciences can supposedly be reduced." >Language of physics. That's a funny way of spelling math.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:22:55 2019 No.10373779 >>10372937 logic is a subset of computer science

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:27:28 2019 No.10373783 >>10373779 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>

Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:39:45 2019 No.10373799 [DELETED]

[DELETED]

>>10372794
>physics must explain itself, its
>correspondence to reality, and arguably the biological origins and mental activity of
>physicists in whose minds it exists. In fact, physics as we know it can explain none of
>these things
Why can't it?
>Such explanations
are prohibited by its methodology as encoded in the scientific method, according to
which it must constantly be tested by observation and experimentation.
Yes, where's the contradiction?

>>

Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:41:56 2019 No.10373802

>physics must explain itself, its correspondence to reality, and arguably the biological origins and mental activity of physicists in whose minds it exists. In fact, physics as we know it can explain none of these things
Why can't it?
>Such explanations are prohibited by its methodology as encoded in the scientific method, according to which it must constantly be tested by observation and experimentation.
How is the latter part of that sentence prohibitive?

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:44:19 2019 No.10373810 File: 128 KB, 1440x964, 1549760553811.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10372900 >But mathematics are the very fundamentals, not physics both special cases of general computation

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:48:22 2019 No.10373814 >>10372794 >must explain why

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 00:48:53 2019 No.10373816 >>10372794 Wrong. Physics deals with the physical characteristics and behaviors of atoms and other kinds of particles and molecules. Biology deals with biology.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 02:05:04 2019 No.10373958 >>10373810 >both special cases of general computation HYPERCOMPUTATION

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 02:11:26 2019 No.10373976 File: 15 KB, 480x360, hqdefault.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10373958 ye

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 02:20:22 2019 No.10373995 >>10373976 >quantum computation >hypercomputation You do realize that quantum computing can be reduced to classical computing.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 02:27:07 2019 No.10374004 File: 196 KB, 1024x749, 1549756480955.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10373995 yeah, so what's the problem lol

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 04:08:57 2019 No.10374109 File: 94 KB, 1280x720, Gabriel Dropout - 05 (BD 1280x720 x264 AAC).mp4_snapshot_09.19_[2018.06.12_18.01.15].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10372989 >Monkey screams at the reality, consequently reality is a language.

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 08:38:19 2019 No.10374500 >>10372897 your self referential idea is fucking nonsense

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 08:40:30 2019 No.10374506 >>10372989 read some witggenstein fagler

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 11:02:32 2019 No.10374736 File: 144 KB, 1334x523, philosophy disrupting in science.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10372794 Have a ((( pasta )))

>>	Anonymous Sun Feb 10 11:05:35 2019 No.10374746 File: 144 KB, 1334x523, philosophy and science.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Have a ((( pasta ))).