Why did the US moon mission end up looking nothing like this?

[Anonymous No.10353511]

>Mission starts with construction of massive space station that provides artificial gravity for 50 men, has a nuclear reactor
>Crew of 4 men orbit the moon for research, no landing
>The data is used in the planning of the mars mission, where man would first set foot on another body

https://youtu.be/eXIDFx74aSY

And instead of this we ended up just building a fuckhuge rocket and landing on the moon

[Anonymous No.10353522]

>>10353511
It didn't because Braun was a subpar engineer and I've posted about this before. He was a good manager and motivator, but his engineering ability was not notable at all and he focused primarily on redundancies toward safety. he and his other German engineers before and during WW2 stole a whole lot from Americans, Goddard especially. He even mentions this himself.

[Anonymous No.10353529]

Dumb nazi piece of shit that's why.
Should have been trialed and executed like the other fascists.

[Anonymous No.10353530]

>JFK wants to restore public faith in government
>asks NASA what big manned mission can be completed within a decade that the Russians don't have a head start on
>the answer in a manned lunar landing
Like everything publicly funded it was politicians that choose the direction.

>>10353522
I don't think it's fair to call him sub-par as par for the time was "lets put piston engines in wooden planes".

[Anonymous No.10353536]

>>10353511
Von Braun and engineers wanted an actual space program. Americans where "muuh, first on the Moon, don't care about anything else". Now America got no manned space flight at all and has to pay to use the Russian bus to go to the Russian space station.

[Anonymous No.10353541]

>>10353536
Based.

If the USSR lasted few more years the us would have collapsed instead and we wouldn't be living in capitalist shithole world heading toward climate suicide.

The CIA's work on the Soviet elite was top tier job though you've gotta give them credit.

[Anonymous No.10353545]

>>10353536
The US has an extremely strong industry for launching satellites, why don’t we send people up in our rockets?

[Anonymous No.10353546]

>>10353545
Rockets need to be specifically designed with manned flight in mind due to increasing G-load as the fuel drains. Most rockets used for satellites would knockout or even kill the crew around the 5 minute mark.

[Anonymous No.10353554]

>>10353545
Sending bags of watery meat into space is terribly inefficient.

[Anonymous No.10353559]

>>10353545
there's no actual need to do that besides "muh national prestige" and fulfilling nerd fantasies

[Anonymous No.10353596]

>>10353559
Dude FUCK pushing human limits lmao

[Anonymous No.10353599]

>>10353596
why pursue something that has zero near term potential? it's like deciding "dude lmao let's start building a Dyson sphere and we will be done in like 20000 years" but on a less extreme scale

[Anonymous No.10353605]

>>10353599
>near term potential
This is the kind of shortsightedness that is democracies primary weakness. If you want to advance the best approach is funding both short term and long-term (ie. asian long-term 100+ years) projects. Sure you don't go throwing 10% of your GDP at long term goals but putting 1% towards long term goals will more than pay for itself.

[Anonymous No.10353611]

>>10353599
>It doesn’t affect me right this second so why bother
Dumb faggot

[Anonymous No.10353615]

>>10353511
Because NASA was more interested in furthering the careers of fraudsters like von Braun (who was a LITERAL NAZI, by the way) than in promoting the real talent right under their noses. Only 40% of America at the time was white males... so 60% of potentially the best scientists and engineers were actively kept out of the business (when they weren't being sexually harassed or lynched). Smdh

[Anonymous No.10353620]

>>10353605
>GDP at long term goals but putting 1% towards long term goals will more than pay for itself
so, like we do right now?
>>10353611
>I'm retarded and don't understand when coordinated effort is effective and when not
once again, if we establish much ebin mars colony tomorrow, it would do jack shit. humans would just be stuck there and do nothing all day. minimal research, some cruising around mars, that's about it.

[Anonymous No.10353624]

>>10353511
Because NASA was more interested in furthering the careers of fraudsters like von Braun (who was a LITERAL NAZI, by the way) than in promoting the real talent right under their noses. Only 40% of America at the time was white males... so 60% of potentially the best scientists and engineers were actively kept out of the business (when they weren't being raped or lynched).

[Anonymous No.10353625]

>>10353624
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.10353627]

>>10353615
>who was a LITERAL NAZI, by the way
Why do you feel that is relevant? He was the classic amoral researcher who just wanted funding and when the war started selling people on a supersonic transport going hundreds of miles got a whole lot easier.
(I know you are shitposting but people actually have an issue with Nazis getting jobs in the US and Russia.

>so, like we do right now?
I'm assuming you are American, I am not so maybe your nation is investing on the 100 year timescale. If so list some of those projects and their budget.

[Anonymous No.10353628]

>>10353624
I love how they couldn't diversify the cast with the usual sliding scale of melanin, so instead they used the sliding scale of obesity.

[Anonymous No.10353629]

>>10353620
Fuck, see 2nd part of >>10353627

[Anonymous No.10353631]

>>10353628
I like you.

[Anonymous No.10353639]

>>10353627
>I'm assuming you are American, I am not so maybe your nation is investing on the 100 year timescale. If so list some of those projects and their budget.
1. The Yinon Plan
2. The Kalergi Plan

[Anonymous No.10353650]

>>10353639
They are both geopolitical, not research or science based.
Sure the Kalergi plan did pay dividends especially after ww2 but I can't see the Yinon plan ever getting anything more productive than propping up the military–industrial complex.

[Anonymous No.10353652]

>>10353624
Why do you suffer a delusion that there is equal distribution of scientific person material among different subgroups of population?

[Anonymous No.10353693]

>>10353511
Never went to the moon. Alien or other force informed our world leaders we weren't allowed to leave. Theater ensued.

I do think that's what we're living in. Look at the tower of babel story. Not allowed, kiddos.

[Anonymous No.10353701]

>>10353693
>the tower of babel story
You mean fanfiction.net shit that didn’t happen

[Anonymous No.10353702]

>>10353511
Something like that is still unfeasible to this day, why do you think?

The only reason we even went to the moon is because we knew the USSR was spending loads more and would probably fail.

[Anonymous No.10353709]

>>10353701
https://www.ancient-origins.net/ancient-places-asia/inside-etemenanki-real-life-tower-babel-0010025

cited, bitch.

[Anonymous No.10353711]

>>10353702
>unfeasible to this day
Economically or scientifically? I think it's completely possible with current technology, hell even 60s technology, there has just never been the political will to make it happen.

[Anonymous No.10353746]

>>10353529
And THAT's why the US secret service, federal government, and military kept a program under wraps just to recruit him and his team. Because he was so dumb. GENIUS

You and all the other jews and nigger should be trialed and executed for being useless dregs of society

[Anonymous No.10353747]

>>10353541
>If the USSR lasted few more years the us would have collapsed instead

As someone from a post-communist country: HAHAHAHAHA! No fucking way.

[Anonymous No.10353751]

>>10353546
complete bullshit

>>10353545
>The US has an extremely strong industry for launching satellites, why don’t we send people up in our rockets?

We will, Atlas V will be used to launch crew probably this year, and Vulcan will also be manrated. Why we dont do that already? Because Shuttle was the manned launcher instead.

[Anonymous No.10353760]

>>10353599
>why pursue something that has zero near term potential?

It is called long term thinking you retard.

[Anonymous No.10353765]

>>10353751
>complete bullshit
See page 65 onward.
https://www.ulalaunch.com/docs/default-source/rockets/delta-iv-user's-guide.pdf

I can find more user guides if you can't be fucked educating yourself.

[Anonymous No.10353777]

>>10353765
we can manrate delta if we wanted to

[Anonymous No.10353784]

>>10353777
Lower acceleration = more gravitational losses and reduced trust vectoring control. It isn't as simple as throttling down and everything else staying the same.

[Anonymous No.10353798]

america just wanted something quick and easy it could do to show off to the soviets. if von braun actually thought there was any interest in building rotating space habitats or going to mars he was an idiot.

[Anonymous No.10353801]

>>10353784
It isnt as simple but it is still quite simple. The point is, we can manrate it if we wanted to. We dont because of other reasons (crew vehicles not being ready yet, and launching on atlas anyway).

[Anonymous No.10353826]

>>10353798
You need to remember what he had got politicians do to over the years.
Rockets were seen as a nerdy hobby until after much fighting he convinced the Nazi's to fund R&D. After years of failure developing the largest liquid engine by far he managed to keep his program funded. He had the A4 (V2) used as a propaganda tool after getting results and finally got the respect of the government. From this he sold them on the idea of rocket powered interceptors (shitty idea but more R&D funding).
At the end of ww2 we goes to the US and isn't allowed to do anything useful because you can't trust a Nazi. The US team fails time after time so the Germans finally get a go. Make a working SRBM, MRBM and ICBM.
Finally get to do the manned projects you have always wanted. Russians are winning at everything so you finally start getting real funding. Get asked by JFK how to beat the Russians, suggest the moon, he says yes. Get man into orbit, docking not long after and longer duration missions all the time.
Get men on the moon, get cars on the moon, longer missions soon....

It's easy to see why we though there might be the political will to goto mars, rockets had gone from a hobby to the most important weapons platform to the national prestige project of both superpowers.
A lot changed over a few decades and I can't blame him for dreaming big.

>>10353801
If you asked ULA to manrate the Delta they are going to be asking for billions, at that point it would make more economic sense to give that money to SpaceX or Blue Origin as you would get a more capable rocket for the same price.

[Anonymous No.10353870]

>>10353624
Go back to your safe space and keep dreaming Communications Major is worth more than toilet paper.

[Anonymous No.10354022]

>>10353541
yeah I'd love to agree with you and we do indeed live in a capitalist shithole but the US economy was infinitely stronger than that of the USSR and a few more years wouldn't have changed a thing
>>10353545
believe it or not, the spaceship costs about as much to develop as the launch vehicle, I think that KSP is at fault for this notion since in that game, the capsule is just one part that you stick on top

[Anonymous No.10354097]

>>10353511
LOL.
This is a real space station.

Instead we decided to build this heap of space junk nearly half a century later, only used to send "THE FIRST [insert special interest group and gender here]" into space for publicity, and PR. 95% of the ISS was used for dicking around, goodwill missions, and ham radio shit.

The ISS should be taken out of orbit immediately, it poses a danger to future space exploration if anything collides with it. Fucking waste of tax money. The ISS mentality is what killed space exploration. Instead space is just consumer oriented space junk for hyperliberal capitalist dystopia. I'll say it one last time, FUCK and GOD DAMN the ISS and FUCK every single redditor who supports or defends it.

[Anonymous No.10354104]

>>10353511
LOL.
This is a real space station.

Instead we decided to build this heap of space junk nearly half a century later, only used to send "THE FIRST [insert special interest group and gender here]" into space for publicity, and PR. 95% of the ISS was used for dicking around, goodwill missions, and ham radio shit.

The ISS should be taken out of orbit immediately, it poses a danger to future space exploration if anything collides with it. Fucking waste of tax money. The ISS mentality is what killed space exploration. Instead space is just consumer oriented space junk for hyperliberal capitalist dystopia. I'll say it one last time, FUCK and GOD DAMN the ISS and FUCK every single redditor who supports or defends it.

[Anonymous No.10354124]

>>10354097
Are you retarded or what

[Anonymous No.10354161]

>>10354097
The ISS is not a good project. For its total expense it has generated a very small amount of science and has locked us into LEO "exploration" for the past few decades. That being said, you and I both know that they didn't build the ISS to advertise sending non-binaries into space, they built it to stop post-USSR collapse Russian engineers from going to Iran to build missiles.

[Anonymous No.10354191]

>>10354161
so you admit that "muh space science" is shit, why do you want to go to mars?

[Anonymous No.10354192]

>>10354104
>not wishing you'd had the opportunity to call Chris Hadfield a floating hollow-boned faggot from your comfy mobile pirate shortwave station

[Anonymous No.10354200]

>>10354191
Woah there, I didn't talk down on science in space at all, I talked down on the ISS's science/cost ratio. On another note, I advocate Mars mainly for non-science reasons

[Anonymous No.10354207]

>>10354200
>ISS's science/cost
kek, this ratio is true for all human space mission, if not worse when going beyond LEO
>mainly for non-science reasons
such as?

[Anonymous No.10354213]

[Anonymous No.10354229]

>>10354207
>this ratio is true for all human space mission
yes, obviously robots are the way to go for the majority of science missions
>such as?
I believe that becoming an interplanetary civilization will have significant positive effects on the economy of both planets, technology development, happiness of the population, recovery from planetary disaster, maybe even social/political reform. Mars is also very appealing as a launch site compared with Earth for obvious reasons.
More importantly though, I want humans to go to Mars for the same reason that I want humans to continue to learn more about the universe, it is fundamentally and biologically pleasing to explore, expand, and learn.

[Anonymous No.10354338]

>>10353801
Manrating modern launchers has nothing to with g loads anyway, they all throttle to maintain around 4 g or less anyway to limit stress on payloads. Astronauts can easily take much higher g loads than that without passing out or anything, and routinely did in the past.

[Anonymous No.10354387]

>>10353541
USSR command economy was fundamentally flawed because the economic planners had neither the knowledge nor drive to be able to direct resources to the breaking point year after year. (because in fully socialist countries incompetence or laziness is tolerated well in industries since it's not your personal capital on the line).

America has a problem of not allocating resources well either, but it does a damn better job at R&D than Socialism

[Anonymous No.10354397]

>>10354387
*Caveat, the government needs to step in to provide incentive or direct labor if industry isn't going to pursue a non-immediately profitable venture here though (Medical tech, space exploration, etc)

[Anonymous No.10354443]

To be completely honest, the US federal budget is completely mismanaged. I propose this theory: that the biggest obstacle to our development of ventures in space is federal fiscal mismanagement.

We have a grossly mismanaged healthcare system, where people end up using the ER as their general care practitioner. We are knee deep in quagmires around the world that siphon most of our government spending. If we had those two systems in check in the 60s-70s we could be at fucking Pluto by now.

NASA's FY 2017 budget of $19.5 billion (in nominal dollars) represented 0.47% of the $3.98 trillion United States federal budget during that year.

So really, the future lies in the motivation to reform other programs to fund it, as I see it. I'm open to criticism however.

[Anonymous No.10354460]

>>10354443
Amount of funding itself is not the problem, $20 billion per year ought to be enough for a nice space program, and when you adjust for inflation it is fully half of the Apollo peak. The problem is huge inefficiency in how that money is spent. Costs of things like the Shuttle, ISS or SLS are just ridiculously inflated.

[Anonymous No.10354491]

>>10354460
I agree. I don't have much insight into the space industry. But if there's anything I do know about it's software contracting. It's 4 times as expensive to get a contractor, that will work 1/4 as efficiently as a regular worker. Then I hear about the government programs where people know they're going nowhere but they ride it out because it's a guaranteed paycheck. Maybe that's why the private sector is performing so well? Because when somebody actually has skin in the game, they cut costs and only work on programs that promise an immediate return.

As someone who is considering getting a job in the american space industry I am deeply disillusioned. I want to be a part of something bigger than my self but I can't seem to see a solid direction worth contributing to or a future worth believing in. I'd be glad to hear any and all input.

[Anonymous No.10354514]

>>10354397
>**Cavea2, once the government steps in to provide incentive it erases all incentive from the industry to do things on its own

[Anonymous No.10354534]

>>10353511
So one of the most glaring errors I've found by randomly clicking through
>this specific task is the responsibility of the navigator
>and this one of the communications guy
>and this of the engineer
This kind of thinking is great if you want accountability, but in the case of having a space station everyone's job has to be done in order for the place to function. This is NOT THE SAME as everyone doing their job. If life support went down and the engineer didn't fix it, with accountability you know to blame them as you die, which is shit. The reality of small manned missions is for lack of specialisation so there's some redundancy in personnel if something goes awry.

[Anonymous No.10354538]

>>10353522
>Goddard especially

Fake news. Goddards experiments never went beyond pendulum rockets, an engineering dead end with no real life application. Neither did Goddard do any fuel/oxidizer chemistry which was an extensive part of the work in Peenemünde that few know about because it's not flashy enough (except when something reacts unexpectedly).

[Anonymous No.10354549]

>>10353541
>If the USSR lasted few more years

They would have gone to the moon. The Energia had been proven to be reliable, it only existed because Glushko never let go of the moon idea and swindled the polit burau into giving him the budget to do a heavy lift rocket as well as a shuttle.

[Anonymous No.10354582]

>>10354387
>>10354397
>>10354514
>ywn have the perfect AI run socialist system

[Anonymous No.10354615]

>>10354491
I think the biggest problem with space exploration (both government and private) is that financially it's a huge money sink.

What drove the European powers to colonize the world was resources for profit. Wood, salt, tea, silk, etc.

Most of the resources you could find in space could be found on Earth and be more easily accessible. Research and science is always useful but a company isn't going to be built on science alone. He3 for fusion reactors isn't really necessary because current technology meets today's energy requirements.

The result is that the profit that can be made from going to space isn't enough to make up for the cost of getting here.

The msat market is big now but thats due to the fact that launches are so infrequent that there is a huge backlog of satellites waiting to launch. Eventually that will run out.

Space needs to be profitable for space travel to be taken seriously by more than just space enthusiasts and scientists.

[Anonymous No.10354638]

USA is incapable of ushering in the new age.

Stand back murifats we've got this covered.

[Anonymous No.10354659]

>>10354615
>i think there is a world market for about five computers

[Anonymous No.10354717]

>>10353511
No one is ever going back to the moon.
And if you don't understand why you have no idea how the world works.
Think.
They understood it in 1969 and they understand it today.
No one will ever go back to the moon.

[Anonymous No.10354732]

>>10354659
Imagine comparing computers to space.
Anon, I have a big desert to sell you, it has actually even more resources than anything you would be able to extract from Mars currently

[Anonymous No.10354736]

>>10354659
What do you mean by this?

[Anonymous No.10354737]

>>10354213
Fuck

[Anonymous No.10354752]

Why isn't there more focus on nearby outer space?

I'd rather have a hotel/spa with artificial gravity floating around the earth than some cuckshed with a few turd potatoes on Mars

[Anonymous No.10354761]

The last kino space mission we had until the Falcon Heavy launch was Skylab. Hopefully we can get some Bigelow Balloons up soon, and eventually land them on the moon.

>>10353511
nice struts, makes my slide rule rigid

[Anonymous No.10354764]

>>10353511
Kennedy managed to harness long-term support from Congress, meaning long term commitment of serious money, plus capture the public imagination, by creating a "Race to the Moon" with the Soviets. This enabled the US to get to the moon much faster than they otherwise would have done.

But there was a downside to framing it as a race. What do you do when the race is won -- do you keep running full speed into the distance? No, you stop. And move on to something else.

>>10353522
True or not, it is not relevant to OP's question -- Apollo was not cancelled due to hardware failures.

[Anonymous No.10354773]

>>10354761
>until the Falcon Heavy
what exactly was kino about it, and how was it more kino than landing a probe on a moon of Saturn for example?

[Anonymous No.10354774]

>>10353711
Until the day China starts broadcasting a live feed of their Taikonauts hopping across the Sea of Storms.

[Anonymous No.10354776]

>>10354773

[Anonymous No.10354779]

>>10354776
>it was kino because they filmed it?
I don't see your point

[Anonymous No.10354780]

>>10354549
>They would have gone to the moon.

Nope. After the race was over, there was no motivation for them to be the silver medalist.

[Anonymous No.10354789]

>>10354717
The slants will. They have a strong need to be seen as catching up and passing the West -- so they will land a man on the moon, and then do something to surpass that. Maybe set up a short to medium term base, or land on the farside, or something.

[Anonymous No.10354798]

>>10354780
The race was never over. The US didn't go to the moon.

Refer to:
>>10353693

Probably another species is either running us or has informed us that certain action mean our immediate destruction.

[Anonymous No.10355055]

10354798
Go the fuck home
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.10355060]

>>10354387
ironically, the American space program overall has always benefited from more centralized control with NASA compared to the Soviet system, of competing design bureaus.

[Anonymous No.10355073]

Why is Cold War era shit so comfy?

[Anonymous No.10355078]

>>10355073
It was legit and mostly made sense.
What we have now is not legit and does not make sense, because it's pure theater.

If it was theater even back then, it's just a matter of a story that doesn't scale well and lazy writing.

[Anonymous No.10355416]

>>10354789
HAHAHAHAHAHA no they will not.
You are funny if you believe this.
You have no idea of the place you live on or the politics involved.

I give you a hint.

They get nuked by the USA before they ever seriously establish a base there. You know they will maybe planet a flag and drive their tiny moon cars however there will be no moon bases. They will simply go back to earth like the Americans did.

Simply watch it.

[Anonymous No.10355430]

>>10354207
Why does anyone do anything you faggot?
It's always for the lulz