Some idiot posted this on /pol/

[Anonymous No.10347840]

And I can't sleep until I know the correct answer, and understand it well enough to explain it to others.

[Anonymous No.10347841]

>>10347840
It's a trick question. The scale is glued to the ceiling and the jar glued to the scale.

[Anonymous No.10347852]

>>10347840
1kg.

Imagine waking down the street and being crushed to death because an airplane flew over your head.

[Anonymous No.10347853]

1.27kg

[Anonymous No.10347855]

>>10347852
>Imagine waking down the street and being crushed to death because an airplane flew over your head.

there is a lid on though

[Anonymous No.10347856]

>>10347852
Or to give another comparison, imagine suspending a 100 kg ball inside the jar without it making contact. Would lifting the jar (without touching the ball) be any more difficult?

[Anonymous No.10347859]

>>10347840
1.5kg since scale measures force applied on to it. Remember in order to stay afloat the flies need to produce a downward force with their wings equal to their weight. As such the force being enacted on the scale is the force of jar being pulled down by gravity, and the downward force of the air being pushed by flies wings. To better imagine it, picture a jet engine hovering.

Also a nitpick, it's meaningless in everyday life, but in a scientifically kg measure mass not weight. And a spring scale measures force (Newtons) not mass.

[Anonymous No.10347862]

>>10347856
So the flies are like the suspended ball?

[Anonymous No.10347866]

>>10347852
>>10347859
Pls stop

[Anonymous No.10347867]

>>10347862
Okay fine, I didn't consider the force produced by the flies flying.

[Anonymous No.10347870]

>>10347867
With that said, the direction of the force wouldn't just be downwards, right? I think it would diffuse in all directions.

[Anonymous No.10347874]

>>10347867
but wait... what if you had a really big jar, with like a drone in it hovering or something... lifting the jar wouldnt change the position of the drone, and wouldnt take anymore force, right?

[Anonymous No.10347877]

>>10347870
And absorbed by the jar wich will inevitably push it downwords

[Anonymous No.10347878]

>>10347870
Yes and no. The specific puff of downward air produced by a fly's wing would go all over the place. But overall the net force would be down. 1.5 kg is also only true if the flies are all hovering. If they start moving up, it would weigh more for the duration, and if they started descending, it would weigh slightly less for the duration.

[Anonymous No.10347880]

>>10347874
What if you had a helicopter hovering over a sheet of metal. Imagine trying to lift that.

[Anonymous No.10347881]

>>10347880
But fly wings don't work the same way helicopters do

[Anonymous No.10347882]

It says right there the flies weigh 0.5kg. It doesn't matter what you believe about them flying or not, it's stated right there. The total weight is 1.5kg.

[Anonymous No.10347886]

>>10347840
>>10347852
1 kg. This shows that over half of /sci/ is math NEETs who haven’t spent a day in their lives working in a lab because if they had, they would have weighed something. That scale probably cannot read the flies unless the are on the ground. Also 500 grams of flies is a lot of flies.

[Anonymous No.10347887]

>>10347881
Yes they do

[Anonymous No.10347888]

>>10347877
Are you sure it works like that?

>>10347878
Ultimately, the flies just need an upward force that counteracts their weight. Why would them flying *have* to produce a downward force of 0.5 kg? Air resistance already provides an upwards force to an extent. Even ignoring that, I don't think flying has to produce the remaining amount downwards.

t. physics brainlet

[Anonymous No.10347889]

>>10347874
What if the jar was in a vacuum in space and the flies were all "flying" with alcubierre-white drives. The scale is still a scale, but roughly the mass of the Earth.

[Anonymous No.10347893]

>>10347881
Maybe not for the purposes of flight engineering but for our purposes they do. To fly by pushing air down, you need to produce a downward force on the air, equal to the force produced on to you by gravity. It's hard to visualize it with flies since we typically don't associate them with much force. But that is because of their minuscule size (.5 kg of flies is a shit load of flies). Have you ever had a bird fly near or above you? You can feel the gusts of air they produce to fly.

[Anonymous No.10347894]

>>10347887
no they don't, they fly by creating turbulence (I think) so the energy is dissipated in the air rather than pressing down on the jar

[Anonymous No.10347896]

>>10347888
Helicopter blades are just retarded wings

[Anonymous No.10347897]

>>10347855
>universe has a lid on it
>dies instantly

[Anonymous No.10347903]

>>10347840
Real question
Since there are 5 flies and the weight of the flies is 0.5kg, then one fly is 100g.

If the flies weigh 100g, how much force is required for them to fly?

Given this, how strong would be the impact if the fly were to collide in to a person?

[Anonymous No.10347906]

>>10347888
>Ultimately, the flies just need an upward force that counteracts their weight
For every force their is an equal and opposite. The upward force of the air on the flies is the downward force of the wings onto the air. If they produce more than .5g they will be moving up on the net, and if it's less they will be going down (since in each case they will have a net positive or net negative force respectively).

>Air resistance already provides an upwards force to an extent. Even ignoring that, I don't think flying has to produce the remaining amount downwards.

Again equal and opposite. Wings pushing air down utilize air resistance to produce an equal and opposite downwards force.

[Anonymous No.10347910]

>>10347894
The specific mechanism of them flying, I'm sure, is incredibly complex. But the net effect must be a net downwards force

[Anonymous No.10347911]

>>10347894
No

[Anonymous No.10347912]

>It's this thread again
Go away.

[Anonymous No.10347918]

>>10347906
So this force pushes down on the jar (0.5kg), but there is an equal and opposite force up from the jar (-0.5kg), so the scale read 1kg-0.5kg=0.5kg

Did not know that. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.10347920]

>>10347911

[Anonymous No.10347921]

>>10347852
>Imagine waking down the street and being crushed to death because an airplane flew over your head.
Are you really that dumb? The reason you don't get crushed by a plane flying hundreds of feet above your head is because that weight is distributed.
Go hang out at the end of a runway under landing planes and see what happens.

[Anonymous No.10347924]

>>10347918
Fly wings are so small that most of tge energy gets dissipated as heat

[Anonymous No.10347931]

>>10347918
Not the person you're quoting, but the opposite force is counteracting the weight of the flies. It doesn't reduce the weight of the jar.

[Anonymous No.10347948]

>>10347859
it's >1kg but <1.5kg since most of the fly downward force gets lost due to air friction

[Anonymous No.10347974]

>>10347948
Brainlet

[Anonymous No.10347988]

I swear this gets posted under various guises at least 3 times per week

[Anonymous No.10348003]

>>10347988
You mean in the exact same form.

[Tuba Jam No.10348005]

>>10347920
https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/wrong3.html

[Anonymous No.10348206]

>>10347840
The weight would vary between 1kg-1.5kg as the flies take off and land inside the jar

[Anonymous No.10348217]

>>10347882
Nice try trying to be smart but the question asks what the scale says, not what the actual total weight is.

[Anonymous No.10348219]

>>10347921
...what?

[Anonymous No.10348222]

>>10347840
The correct answer is 1kg. The flies are in flight and not increasing the mass of the container. ONLY if the flies were somehow added AFTER the container was sealed would they increase air pressure and density.

[Anonymous No.10348257]

>>10348219
What do you mean what? That post was pretty straightforward. It's some pretty basic physics, a plane is not going to move through the air with forward force without displacing air with equal force, this is part of the textbook description of how flight works.

[Tuba Jam No.10348269]

>>10347840
I don't think I've ever seen a question which gets this many replies this frequently. I thought Bertrand's box paradox was bad but thi is on a whole other level

[Anonymous No.10348341]

>>10347853
This and only this

[Anonymous No.10348504]

TO ALL THOSE WHO ANSWERED 1KG

ACCORDING TO YOUR LOGIC


>If you had a 1g jar
>With 100g of flies on tge bottom
>The moment the flies would take off the jar would weigh
-99g

[Anonymous No.10348517]

>>10347840
1.5

[Anonymous No.10348591]

>>10347889
How far away are the alcubierre-white flies?

[Anonymous No.10349050]

Pic related these threads

>>10348504
Not disagreeing with you but that's a shitty analogy. By their standards if the flies were all at the bottom they would count, otherwise they wouldn't. What you're contradicting is the 0.5kg fags

[Anonymous No.10349059]

>>10347840
flies cannot hover like helicopters or hummingbirds. the weight will increase or decrease depending on whether the flies go up or down.

[Anonymous No.10349061]

>>10349059
>muh 1<ans<1.5

[Anonymous No.10349125]

>>10347840
The scale will read 1.5 kg.
In order to get off the ground, the flies must generate an amount of lift which is equal to their weight. They do this by pushing air downwards with their wings, which exhibits an equal amount of force on the scale as there would be if all the flies were simply sitting on it. Watch this video for a real-life example
https://youtu.be/N0IGrSjcBZs

[Anonymous No.10349136]

>>10348269
>>10348005
Delete your username fag. Nobody cares that you're the same schizo that posted in 30 other threads. Reddit is that way.

[Anonymous No.10349815]

1.5kg on average (it fluctuates).

[Anonymous No.10349832]

This is like putting a 50 lb trampoline on a huge scale, then asking what the weight would be with 5 50lb kids jumpin on it. How could you ever know how many kids are on the trampoline and how many are in the air?

Answer is a probability function distributed over all possible combinations (ie 1 kg force to 1.5 kg force, with 0.1 kg force steps assuming each fly is 0.1 kg force).

[Anonymous No.10349848]

>>10349125
I searched for and downloaded this reaction image just for you

[Anonymous No.10349910]

>>10347852

[Anonymous No.10349987]

>>10349815
Underrated

[Anonymous No.10350013]

>>10347840
What a bunch of brainlet, of course it's 1kg.
The flies got wings and they burn energy to maintain flight and counteract the gravity at the same time. Even the smartest board on 4chan is this stupid. Huh

[Anonymous No.10350017]

[Anonymous No.10350023]

>>10350017
1 kg since the block is held by forces acting with object outside of the jar, assuming the block doesn't fall somehow

garbage drawing t.bh since the fucking magnets are set horizontally and don't counteract the gravity. then it would just fall and be 1.5 kg

also
>vacuum pump disabled
>not counting weight of air
>what difference
what the hell does that even mean?

[Anonymous No.10350076]

>>10347840

Imagine instead, for the sake of argument, that each fly was a little helicopter which weighed 5kg each.

Clearly the force needed to push down to keep these helicopters up would be quite a lot, 5kg*5 = 25kg of weight down to counter gravity. So, it should be no less true when each fly only weighs .1kg.

[Anonymous No.10350363]

>>10350076
It's just a bunch of retards and baiters that answer 1kg or in-between 1-1.5, it should be obvious that in a sealed environment no energy would be lost to the air so the full weight of the air (and consequently the forces weighing on the air) would be adding to the weight of the bottle.

>inb4 BUT U DONT KNOW ITS NOT VACUUUUUUUUM
Retard, flies can't fly in vacuum.

[Anonymous No.10350369]

>>10350023
There are buoyant forces like with a helium balloon, so the answer is some amount less than 1kg.

[Anonymous No.10350372]

>>10350363
You don't know if the flies are in free fall, could be a vacuum.

[Anonymous No.10350378]

>>10350372
You also don't know if there's a celestial body in near collision course to the scale, reducing the apparent forces on the scale by 75%

[Anonymous No.10350397]

>>10347840
BUT IS THE JAR ON EARTH AT SEA LEVEL OR SOMEWHERE ELSE?!

[Anonymous No.10350524]

>>10350369
but he says "not counting the weight of air"

[Anonymous No.10350796]

>>10347840
In this situation you have to take the average of the jar's weight and the flies' weight so the answer is (1 kg + 0.5 kg) / 2 = 0.75 kg.

[Anonymous No.10350799]

>>10347840
>"weight"
>uses units for mass

[Anonymous No.10350832]

>>10349050
Trying to figure out the solution by doing the experiment.( No no no)
Sitting over there and making memes about the thread.(yes yes yes)

[Anonymous No.10350869]

>>10347920
Not the whole answer, really

[Anonymous No.10350883]

Doesn't anyone have a small drone and a bucket to do the experiment ?

[Anonymous No.10350921]

>>10350832
Oh gee sorry, what was I thinking?
I'll just take my 1kg block of cryogenically frozen flies out the freezer and set them on the table to thaw brb

[Anonymous No.10350965]

>>10350017
.5 kg because the magnet drifts and then smashes into the jar breaking it. Some of the pieces fall outside the area of the scale.

Repulsive levitation is more stable.

[Anonymous No.10350979]

Its the fucking lid

[Anonymous No.10350983]

OP here, I read every reply and still can't come to a conclusion.
>>10347878
>>10348222
This is probably the closest to a correct answer. Also the video that was posted was a somewhat shitty experiment.

[Anonymous No.10351055]

>>10350983
>Also the video that was posted was a somewhat shitty experiment.
No it wasn't.

[Anonymous No.10351107]

>>10351055
Yes it was

[Anonymous No.10351223]

That's a lot of fucking flies

[Anonymous No.10351234]

>>10347856
The flies aren't suspended though. Their wings are moving the air around inside, with the net motion being downward.

[Anonymous No.10352169]

>>10347893
What about air friction some of the force would be lost

[Anonymous No.10352179]

>>10347840
Unless they land on the jar it would just be a kilogram.
Unless you want to try and predict how many of them land on the jar during your measurement, which would be an issue, since they would be constantly changing positions and as such fucking with the measurement by 100 grams per fly.
Also, those flies are really fucking heavy, wtf?

[Anonymous No.10352206]

>>10349050
That meme encapsulates these subset of /sci/ threads perfectly.

[Anonymous No.10352208]

>>10347859
this is what I thought at first but does the air go directly down? or does some circulate back up?

[Anonymous No.10352210]

>>10350017
Tough one!

[Anonymous No.10352223]

Isn't it 1.5 kg since the flies are actively propelling themselves upward by pushing the air downward, with a force equal to the fly's mass times g?

[Anonymous No.10352273]

>>10349910
Would that not be directly caused by the rotating motion of the blades?

[Anonymous No.10352503]

>closed system
>producing net force

What is conservation of momentum?

[Anonymous No.10352572]

>>10352273
what? wings work by forcing air down when they are moved, planes move foward, helicopters blades also move foward in an abstract kind of way

[Anonymous No.10352639]

>>10347910
>must be a net downward force
Except that isn't the case. The net force is upward, against the action of gravity. If the net force was downward, the object would move down along with gravity. It is impossible to have a net downward force but rise up through a fluid. Flying things either push against the air or make the air push against them to generate lift, lift as in up being the operative function.

You don't know what the term "net force" means. That means the summed vectors are pointing in that direction. If the net force were down, the object would sink. What you probably mean is that the force of the wing motion is downward against the air, but that doesn't describe the net force - only the force generated from the wing movement.

[Anonymous No.10352837]

>>10351107
Prove it.

[Anonymous No.10352998]

>>10351107
There was nothing wrong with that experiment.

Think about instead of having a jar of air you have 10kg a jar of water. You put a 1kg fish in it, does the jar weigh more when the fish is added (it isn't accelerating up or down)? What about hanging a 1kg weight in the 10kg tank of water from the ceiling? The image was in the previous thread, but here's a similar one.

The main point of the question is, regardless of whether the force of the fly's wings impacts the bottom of the jar or the air around it, the fly will be transferring momentum downwards in this air, and this momentum has to be conserved. Like how a high-bypass turbofan works.

[Anonymous No.10353311]

>Someone posts evidence that contradicts you
>'Y-Yeah well that evidence is shit.'

[Anonymous No.10353337]

>>10347859
>all of the energy is converted to momentum
keep dreaming in your perfect physics world

[Anonymous No.10353350]

>>10347840
none of the answers
the weight is on one of saturn's moon in a perfect vacuum

[Anonymous No.10353515]

>>10349125
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread
/thread
>/thread

[Anonymous No.10353520]

>>10347840
it'll read 1 kg. The downward force from the flies' wings gets lost in the air friction and you'd need an extremely sensitive scale to pick that up

[Anonymous No.10353553]

>>10347886

[Anonymous No.10353558]

>>10347888
>what's a Newton's Third Law?

[Anonymous No.10353744]

>>10353558
You have system with applied gravity of external objects, newtons laws apply to closed systems.

[Anonymous No.10353752]

>>10347840
flies weigh a pound, where did you find those?

[Anonymous No.10353786]

>>10353744
>What is a free body diagram.

[Anonymous No.10353868]

>>10347840
1.5.
It's a closed system.
/thread

[Anonymous No.10353877]

>>10353786
There's a pool on the plane.
Does the weight of the plane change when I take a swim?
No.
Neither does the jar when the flies fly.

[Anonymous No.10353979]

oh boy I hate this board, here we go
>>10347852
the force is distributed over a huge area
>>10347856
the suspended ball's force moves through what it is suspended from, bad example
>>10347870
the net force in the vertical direction must still always = the weight of the flies
>>10347874
this one is much more tricky because the center of mass of the jar-drone system (in the jar-drone frame) changes during the motion. The most concise way to put it is: it will require the same amount of force to hold static both before and after the movement. During the movement, you will get more acceleration from the force that you apply than you would if the quad was sitting on the bottom of the container because the center of mass is moving downwards as you move the system upwards.
>>10347888
>>10347894
>>10347924
>>10347948
>>10352169
>>10353520
total force balance holds no matter what complicated dynamics are occurring near each fly / no matter what happens with energy
>>10347903
since you didn't get a response: F = m*a. m = 100g = 0.1 kg, a = 9.81 m/s^2 (acceleration due to gravity near the surface of the Earth aka the amount of acceleration that must be counteracted to maintain steady level flight). F = 0.1*9.81 = 0.981 N. Note that this has no correlation with " how strong would be the impact if the fly were to collide in to a person", which is instead dependent on the speed of the fly on impact and the amount of time it takes the fly to decelerate to a stop on impact
>>10347918
no, draw a FBD
>>10348222
buoyant force is not the question here
>>10349050
good picture lmao
>>10349125
everyone ITT should watch this video, despite the awful flying
>>10350017 this >>10350023

t. aeroE

[Anonymous No.10354052]

>>10353877
well that's because in each case the weight would be the plane + you, regardless of whether you're swimming or standing.
Similarly, the weight of the jar is 1 kg jar + 500g flies regardless of whether the flies are flying or standing.
Congratulations, you played yourself

[Anonymous No.10354107]

>>10353979
Will confirm this anon is correct.

t. phys fag

[Anonymous No.10355268]

>>10347840
No. For a fly to, well, fly, it must supply a downward force to the air equal to its weight. In a closed container, that air cannot escape, so its motion supplies a downward force to the container that is exactly the same as the weight of the fly.

Now, the apparent weight of the jar will fluctuate slightly as the flies accelerate and decelerate, but the fluctuations will always average out to the weight of the flies.

Also, if the container isn't sealed, such as an open cage, then the air can escape into the environment without transferring its full downward force to the cage, and it will be lighter when the flies are flying.

[Anonymous No.10355500]

>>10347840
>implying no one on /pol/ can explain it

[Anonymous No.10355745]

>>10353979
I never claimed force is going to "disappear" I just said some of the downwards force is converted in heat. So the weight isn't 1. 5 kg or 1 kg

[Anonymous No.10355816]

>>10347852
Having an airplane above you does increase your atmospheric pressure, but just like the thousands of tons of air above me right now don't kill me, the airplane doesn't neither.

[Anonymous No.10355824]

>>10355745
There absolutely must be a total net force of 0 in the vertical direction in order for the fly to remain at the same height. Even under your assumptions that there's considerable friction, that just means the fly is less efficient at producing the proper upward force to counteract gravity. If the fly lost upward force then it would fall.

[Anonymous No.10355825]

>>10355824
Btw, this whole question is just a spin off of an example of Archimedes Principle. Instead of water as the fluid, it's air.

[Anonymous No.10355962]

>>10347840
1kg, none of the flies are on the ground u fuk

[Anonymous No.10355991]

Why don't you people watch Mythbusters?
They did this with pigeons in a truck.
Result is that the lift from their wings equals their weight, so the weight related to truck is same weather they fly or not.

It really is basics of Newton laws.

[Anonymous No.10356874]

>>10355991
That's a shitty inaccurate experiment... The weight when they fly is NEARLY equal to the weight when they sit. Otherwise u would feel it a helicopter 100 meter above urself because all the downwards force goes back to the ground... Spoiler u don't, the air slows the force down and converts a part of it to heat. The reason the experiment works is because the birds don't fly high enough to notice a real difference.

[Anonymous No.10356880]

>>10355824
Again I am not claiming the downwards force is less i am just saying some of the downwards force gets converted to heat because the air slows it down

[Anonymous No.10358444]

0 because I pressed the tare button.

[Anonymous No.10358835]

>>10350799
9.8
>9.8
9.8
>9.8
9.8
>9.8
9.8
>9.8

[Anonymous No.10358837]

>>10350883
nice artwork. really speaks to the ass hole.

[Anonymous No.10359159]

>>10347889
Space flies! Whoa.

[Anonymous No.10359173]

>>10349125
It sounds like you are assuming the air in the jar behaves like a rigid body that the flies are climbing and exerting forces on.

[Anonymous No.10359176]

>>10356880
The air that slows it down pushes on the other air and the force is eventually transmitted to the jar.

[Anonymous No.10359202]

>>10359173

[Anonymous No.10359511]

>>10352639
The net force exerted by the blades you autist

[Anonymous No.10359525]

>>10347852
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH

IMAGINE HAVING THIS LOW IQ

[Anonymous No.10359526]

>>10359176
Not fully otherwise u would feel a helicopter 1000 meter above u the same way u feel a helicopter 5 meter above u... u don't => not the whole force that keeps the helicopter hovering is transmitted to the ground why should fly's be different

[Anonymous No.10359530]

>>10347840
The mass of the jar is 1 kg + 0.5kg per fly,
doesnt matter how its distributed.
the scale doesn't give you fucking density idiots

[Anonymous No.10359553]

>>10347840
What is hard to understand? Just make some simple freebody diagram or think about what is actually exerting a force on the scale. Also think about reaction and reaction, if the flies would exert force equal to the weight of 0.5 kg on the scale then the scale would have to exert the same force on the flies but in opposite reaction and push the flies upwards which doesnt amke much sense. The answer is 1kg.

[Anonymous No.10359562]

>>10359553
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA

L O W
I N T E L L I G E N C E

[Anonymous No.10359599]

>>10347840
>what does the scale read?
| | | | | |
Dude forgot to turn it on or something. GG no RE.

[Anonymous No.10359608]

>>10347840
the force of the flies wings is acting on the air in the jar and therefore pushing the air and the jar down by the same weight as the flies assuming they are hovering perfectly and not moving up or down so the jar weighs 1.5kg and they some heavy ass flies

[Anonymous No.10359669]

>>10359553
Wtf are u retarded

[Anonymous No.10359716]

>>10359669
ignore brainlets pls

[Anonymous No.10359721]

do i have to go find a giant jar to put a drone in to demonstrate this shit to you fucking brainlets?
the answer is 1.5 you niggers

[Anonymous No.10359889]

>>10359721
It's not its a bit less then 1, 5 kg because not the whole downward force gets to the bottom some it get slown down by the air and converts to heat otherwise u would feel a helicopter 1000 meter above u the same way like an helicopter 5 meter above u

[Anonymous No.10359959]

Hmmm...

[Anonymous No.10359966]

>>10359959
i cant even read that shit senpai but the answer is the same, the weight of the glass + the weight of the helicopter + the weight of the air

[Anonymous No.10359972]

>>10347840
/pol/ attempts year 7 level science

[Anonymous No.10359977]

>>10359889
stop being retarded

[Anonymous No.10359985]

>>10359889
the reason you dont feel helicopters fly over you is because the force of them pushing down is spread over a very very large area by the time it gets to the ground, but all the force still reaches the ground

[Anonymous No.10360092]

>>10355745
are you fucking saying that 0.5 kilograms convert into heat?
idiot

[Anonymous No.10360121]

>>10359599
Why is this answer incorrect, given the prompt?

[Anonymous No.10360138]

>>10360092
Just read it retard SOME of it gets converted into heat

[Anonymous No.10360149]

>>10347840
The scale reads 1.0000...1 kg because turbulence is gay

[Anonymous No.10360177]

>>10359669
Do you have any idea of how fluids work? Yes, some of the force that the flies exert on the fluid will in turn be "felt" by the scale but probably not all of it. The wing flapping will probably creaty small vortices that will create turbulence in the jar which rotates and makes the fluid not go vertilly down in a straight line. So some of the energy from the flies wing flapping will be dissipated by the turbulence and due to the viscosity in the air. The flow from the flying drone is much more energetic and can reach the scale with less energy loss, im not so sure about that the situation with flies will be the same.

[Anonymous No.10360201]

>>10360177
Read ur previous post slowly maybe in a day or so and reflect on how stupid u were. Maybe and only maybe u will learn something

[Anonymous No.10360208]

>>10360201
or explain why im wrong unless you are the retard

[Anonymous No.10360242]

>>10350017
The scale will not read anything because of the magnets magnetic field

[Anonymous No.10360423]

>>10356874
So it is a good experiment because the flies are even closer to the ground than the birds.

[Anonymous No.10361112]

>>10347840
lets say the flies are not flying, then the answer is obvious. so the jar is always 1.5kg

[Anonymous No.10361205]

>>10359966
Technically the weight of the air is zeroed out when you tare the scale.

[Anonymous No.10361228]

>>10347840
It'll read roughly 1kg
>>10347910
>But the net effect must be a net downwards force
A lot of flies nosedive into the ground where you are?

[Anonymous No.10361236]

>>10350965
couldn't be done without monopoles; with no friction between the magnet inside the glass and anything else it would flip to seek attracting poles

[Anonymous No.10361259]

>>10352998
your image is illustrating something different
mine is illustrating something even differenter

[Anonymous No.10361288]

>>10350017
i think i got something that will work, using ring magnets that have the poles at the edges

[Anonymous No.10361293]

[Anonymous No.10361295]

>>10361236
If it had spin or you had electromagnets with a controller you could make it more stable.

[Anonymous No.10361297]

>>10361293
making fun of ICP for this lyric is a sign of being a massive brainlet

[Anonymous No.10361302]

>>10349125
You're a fool if you think that force applies at a 100% ratio straight down from the fly.

[Anonymous No.10361307]

>>10352572
Right, and the air then EVENLY disburses. Retards in this thread keep acting like 100% of the fly's thrust will impact the bottom of their container. Not even 100% of the heli's thrust goes straight down.

[Anonymous No.10361313]

>>10361295
I thought of >>10361288 so I drew it, and then I posted the ICP meme because it was a classic blast from the past.

>>10361297
Knowing anything about ICP is worse than anything you could ever say to me. Just look at this image.

[Anonymous No.10361324]

>>10361302
Where does the force go?

[Anonymous No.10361332]

>>10361307
The difference is that the fly is INSIDE the container. There is nowhere else for the force to go. Also the helicopter is kept aloft by the component of the thrust that is vertical. This component must be equal to the weight of the helicopter or it would accelerate upward or downward.

[Anonymous No.10361350]

>>10347889
The scale wouldn't work in the absence of gravity since it measures force not mass.

[Anonymous No.10361728]

>>10361332
The Force gets converted because the air can't pass 100℅ of the force it always keeps some of it and the air keeps moving => heat . I cAnt sEe wHerE tHe foRcE gOeS I dOnT unDerStand wHy pEoPle sAy iTs lEsS tHeN 1. 5 kg

[Anonymous No.10361741]

>>10361350
>The scale is still a scale, but roughly the mass of the Earth.

[Anonymous No.10361800]

>>10360138
you are a retard, read >>10353979

[Anonymous No.10361810]

>>10361728
good fucking lord, I never thought I'd see an idiot this big
>air can't pass the force
wrong
>mass converts into heat
tell me the precise amount of mass lost by conversion into heat

[Anonymous No.10361822]

>>10361728
From a conservation of energy point maybe, but conservation of energy isn't what's important here. Momentum is always conserved and cannot be converted into a different form, hence it reads exactly 1.5kg under the assumption that the flies are not accelerating in the vertical direction.

[Anonymous No.10361906]

>>10361810
Where the fuck did I say air can't pass force I said air can't pass 100% of the force. I never said mass gets converted into heat I only said when force gets passed trough air some of the air keeps moving and doesn't pass 100% of the force. Ironical u say to me I need to read something when u didn't even read my post properly

[Anonymous No.10361925]

>>10361906
Imagine the situation where a fly is in a jar that's floating free in microgravity. As the fly flies in direction x, it's pushing the air around it in -x, which impacts the glass jar. Because momentum must be conserved, the combined centre of mass of the fly and jar must remain in the same position. Hence none of this force is dissipated as heat.

[Anonymous No.10362925]

>>10347840
Asked my physics prof. He said 1kg.
/selfthread

[Anonymous No.10363416]

>>10362925
lmao what a retard

[Anonymous No.10364528]

Wouldn't the upward forces of flying negate the downward forces from weight? As long as the flies are in flight, there are are negligible forces being applied by the flies to the air around them whilst the downforce from the weight of the jar is static with a net positive of 1kg. My answer is ~1kg.

[Anonymous No.10364535]

>>10364528
>>10349125

[Anonymous No.10364563]

>>10347840
imagine if a dragon was flying inside a giant glass cage. obviously the dragon doesnt weigh down the scale because the dragon isnt fucking on the scale.

lets say we have this jar but the lid is not on the jar. the flies are flying over top of the jar but not inside it. the flies do not weigh the scale down. now lets say the flies are flying inside it, the flies still dont weigh the scale down. now that the flies are in the jar and we put the lid on the flies still dont weigh the scale down.

[Anonymous No.10364571]

>>10364563
This post is a great example of why punctuation matters. The second half just looks like gibberish because we can't tell your sentences apart.

flies jar lid down air flies jar open lid jar jar flies jar lid air scale flies scale jar open lid jar flies flies

[Anonymous No.10364575]

>>10349125
>downward
the flies do not move the air straight downward. the flies would create a type of vortex of air moving downward. this is because the wing is displacing air below it making air rush to where the wing was. this process forms the vortex of air

[Anonymous No.10364580]

>>10364575
>the flies don't move the air straight downward
>they just move it roughly downward
I don't see how your post adds anything of value to this thread.

[Anonymous No.10364588]

I know that this is dumb, but if you had an infinitely sensitive scale, would you see any change? Or is it just going to be lost to friction.

[Anonymous No.10364593]

>>10364588
if you had an infinitely sensitive scale you would see infinite change for all eternity
you'd never be able to get a reading

[Anonymous No.10364599]

>>10364588
If you had a quantumly sensitive scale, you'd see the changes of the flies' wings moving and producing tiny fluctuations as their lift values change. If you had an electrostatic thruster with no moving parts and constant airflow hovering in there (and somehow emitting no EM radiation) then you shouldn't see any fluctuations.

[Anonymous No.10364761]

>>10364599
>quantumly

[Anonymous No.10364798]

>>10347840
Since the flies are not on the bottom of the glass jar I must presume that there is air in the jar. As for the reading on the scale that would depend on what planet the scale is on and the vector acceleration of each fly and each of their individual mass. Its a trick question with out all the data but not impossible to answer.

[Anonymous No.10364845]

>>10362925
You should just drop the class and take with a different professor

[Anonymous No.10364846]

>>10364599
>quantumly

[Anonymous No.10364862]

>>10347840
1.5 kg.
Just because the flies are suspended in the air doesn't mean they don't have mass.

[Anonymous No.10364890]

>>10364862
I think what people are finding a little confusing is that a scale measures force and not mass.

[Anonymous No.10364903]

>>10364862
Or, I guess what I'm trying to say is that the air they're moving down to keep themselves aloft is always going to be hitting the bottom of the jar and applying the same force the flies would otherwise exert if they were just clinging to the sides or bottom.

[Anonymous No.10364907]

>>10364890
>>10364903

[Anonymous No.10364921]

>>10364903
I think you have to get a mental picture of the fast-moving air particles transferring momentum into a lot more slower moving air particles, making a cone of slower and slower air that still impacts the bottom of the box with the same force since momentum must be conserved.

[Anonymous No.10364968]

I think it would would never read 1.5kg constantly

if you make the flies flap their wings at the same time and make downwash proportional to their weight it would certainly read 1.5kg but only for a quick moment

If we were to assume that each individual fly flaps their wings without sync'ing with one another it would probably read 1kg +/-0.1kg depending on how quick the scale will update after each force is applied

and even then, there is lag in between inputs

[Anonymous No.10364993]

>>10364968
Why would it average to 1kg? Also read the fucking thread.

[Anonymous No.10365039]

>>10348504
no, if you had a 1 g jar with 100g flies on the bottom the scale would read 101g, when the flies took off it would weigh 1.5 kg.