Martian Society

[Anonymous No.10294311]

If Martian society ever became successful and declared independence from earth would it win a war with it?

What would Martian society be like?

Would the severity of their environment cause them to push for eugenics and strict meritocracy?

[Anonymous No.10294315]

>>10294311
If by win a war you mean have surviving lifeforms, we would win because Earth: 7 billion, Mars: 0

[Anonymous No.10294317]

>Mars declares independence
>Earth stops sending supplies
>Mars has no choice but to accept Earth rule
Unless Mars is self sufficient then there is no way.

[Anonymous No.10294356]

>>10294317
i suspect thats what would lead to martian independence. Earth restricting technology from making mars self sufficient.

picture this

MNN Martians new network, ai reporter on screen comes on "..earth has refused to send the necessary components for x. The martian people grow frustrated and have decided to create the necessary components, earth governments have threaten to sanction the martian colonists. we are joint with professor k song of the martian auxiliary government of science"

Professor: "The eaRthers have gotten greedy, they dont care about the plight of us martians. The Time to cut times has come. Our security forces tasked with martian security are being retasked for the creation of the new martian army" Martian space elevator project soon to be complete will allow us to build martian military fleets.

Ai reporter : "Sir what about the earthers here"

Professor: "We assure their safetly but They will be monitored and are free to leave, those married to martians will be given the option of citizenship "


Okay professor thanks for the update, embedded video ad comes on
...MARS BARS ON MARS. MARS BARS ON MARS SUPER DUPER CHEWY..cgi girls dance as they eat a mars bars.
"language is a mix of chinese and english"

[Anonymous No.10294362]

Does Mars have a shit ton of untapped metals and other precious resources compared to earth? I'm no Mars expert but that could be a massive advantage especially if a single faction had hegemonic control of the entire planet thus negating trade costs.

[Anonymous No.10294368]

>>10294356
Pretty sure the news on both sides would be hilariously biased considering how bad modern news is.

[Anonymous No.10294415]

North Korea on Mars.

Trade sanctions and a governing body struggling to feed its population while making hopeless attempts at technological and manufacturing advancements.

[Anonymous No.10294418]

If Mars were ever truly colonized it would be functionally impossible to rule it from earth since it takes two years between launch windows when anyone could actually reach it.

Imagine "HOW DARE YOU DEFY ME?! I'M GOING TO FUCK YOU UP FOR THIS IN 700 DAYS JUST YOU WATCH"

[Anonymous No.10294425]

>>10294415
Norks are suffering because Communism more than anything

>>10294418
So Forever War?

[Anonymous No.10294441]

>>10294311
S C I - F I
S P E C U L A T I O N
most likely it would be a research enclave propped up by the military hegemony on Earth, so Chinese or American, and living there would be very boring.

[Anonymous No.10294447]

>>10294356
It would lead to Mars bending the knee and paying their damn space taxes. Or I guess they can starve and earth can send loyal colonists to reclaim the equipment. Mars couldn't become independent for several hundred years and an unrealistic amount of investment, which will NEVER happen. Mars will be a scientific curiosity, and a colony in MAYBE 1000 years.

[Anonymous No.10294515]

>>10294447
heres the think, gravity for mars means it can build a space elevator using todays technology. Likely being away from earth creates a martian culture that totally different from earth compounded with the tough environment means the martians are more militaristic in outlook. a small fuck up and you die would lead to a hyper strict society

forget time, thats not the issue, say mars get to a 100k population, but still needs earth for certain critical things.
earth and earth corporations would be hestiant to give mars enough infrastructure to be truly free.tensions build up and you get people saying "mars for martians"

[Anonymous No.10294524]

>>10294515
Even without a space elevator, Mars' major economy early on may be focused on fuel services and Space Launch. Its primary competitor will be lunar-based services, but they'll be more efficient if lunar gravity is considered unsafe for long-term habitation.

[Anonymous No.10294527]

>>10294425
>damn commies

No. Trade sanctions. Communism is the only thing keeping them afloat.

[Anonymous No.10294532]

>>10294515
Mars and Luna have all the same problems except Luna is closer, why not build a space elevator on Luna? Then you can send materials up every day instead of some shitty launch window, which is why mars won't be independent for a long time.
>Whoops some critical systems failed and it's going to take 6 months for resupply, rest in peace Mars crew
>Meanwhile on Luna, oh shit some critical systems failed, well you're most likely all dead but there's a 10% chance we can get the new ammonia pumps to you in time.
I just don't think colonization enthusiasts truly grasp the insane difficulty of all this stuff.

[Anonymous No.10294632]

>>10294311
A SpaceX operated Martian colony that is self sustaining would be able to put thousands of tons of material into orbit every day. SpaceX has the most advanced rocket technology and are about 20 years ahead of their competitors. They could send a swarm of debris producing satellites to Earth to induce Kessler syndrome, cutting off earth from the rest of the solar system for a few hundred years. That would be some crazy shit. Elon could dream up some pretty crazy orbital weapons, even if he doesn't have nukes.

[Anonymous No.10294674]

>>10294632
>cold war between planets
>the war isn't settled with nuclear weapons or invasions, but by being the first to kessler syndrome the other guy
sounds hilarious and depressing at the same time

[Anonymous No.10294681]

>>10294311
I hope Mars doesn't end up as a unified planet. It would be more interesting if it were divided into several Martian countries and Earth-based territories.

[Anonymous No.10294684]

>>10294532
Why not build a space elevator to Earth starting from the moon?

[Anonymous No.10294692]

>>10294681
Its gonna be unified under emperor musk. Fanboys and girls will jerk him off every hour, on the hour.

[Anonymous No.10294714]

>>10294311
Did you get that idea from anime? There's one with this exact plot.

[Anonymous No.10294731]

well i look forward to joining the MCRN and nuking earth

[Anonymous No.10294775]

>>10294418
>two years between launch windows
Only if you're using ye olde chemical rockets that burn for like 60 seconds then free float most of the way. If you have fusion rockets and can burn for a significant stretch you give way less of a shit about queer-ass launch windows.

[Anonymous No.10295046]

>>10294317
>>10294356
Theres good reason to make Mars as close to an autarky as possible. The more you get in situ, the less you have to spend on shipping costs. And shipping is horrendously expensive, to the point that it's unlikely that a colony would exist at all unless its largely self sufficient with only low mass, highly specialized parts being imported.

[Anonymous No.10295137]

>>10294311
Mars is a dead planet. Why the fuck people want to go there is beyond me. Resources like ore? That'd be one likely reason given how we treat Earth. Mars has no real atmosphere and no real magnetic field, no real water, no real comfy zones, it's full of CO2, *good for plants and trees and it's very far away.

[Anonymous No.10295141]

>>10295137
And Mars has exceptionally high quantities of Xenon 129. The stuff that's got from radioactive decay of weapon-grade plutonium,

[Anonymous No.10295179]

>>10295137
No blacks or mexicans there. If you roof over Valles Marineris you can fill it with air and have a comfy zone. Also gravity is low enough that you can attach rotors to a bike and fly, within your pressure dome. Way cooler than just floating around in a space station, which is little better than cheat mode as far as human flight goes.

[Anonymous No.10295190]

>>10294311
>What would Martian society be like?
Same as on Earth.

[Anonymous No.10295196]

>>10295179
A human society on Mars would be underground because it has no atmosphere. You'd be irradiated to death on the surface.

[Anonymous No.10295220]

>>10295196
You can stay underground with the rest of the softcocks. Real men will be up and about on the surface.

[Anonymous No.10295224]

>>10295141
>And Mars has exceptionally high quantities of Xenon 129. The stuff that's got from radioactive decay of weapon-grade plutonium,

What if humans nuked mars in the distant past and evacuated to earth?

[Anonymous No.10295336]

>>10294532
>what is redundancy
>what are factors of safety
This applies to the travel time as well, the difference doesn't matter that much. If the part you're shipping is so vital, it will have multiple redundant systems and/or multiple replacements. Its a priority to get a new one as soon as you're below the nominal level of spares, but you should never be 1 part failure from death.

[Anonymous No.10295346]

>>10295046
To even think about building a colony you need lowered shipping costs, and not everything costs the same money to ship for its value. Mars is unlikely to become self sufficient in software with Elon "I want Windows on everything" Musk at the helm.

[Anonymous No.10295348]

>>10294775
You'd still care somewhat, but still
>it'll work with *insert futuristic technology that at best estimates would be developed in the next century*
Great plan.

[Anonymous No.10295352]

>>10295336
>What are accidents
I forget, are those a thing of the past now with these new fangled ideas of redundancy and factors of safety?

[Anonymous No.10295357]

>>10294425
>So Forever War?
More like Never War.

[Anonymous No.10295452]

UN controlled Antarctica research base type.
Even if privately funded there will be thorough regulation to prevent creation of actual society independent or not.

[Anonymous No.10295454]

>>10294356
The very first restricted technology will be fission reactors. I expect the first dramatic difficulties to happen because of dust storms stranding people due to halted propellant production.

[Anonymous No.10295513]

Sometimes I think you guys have the weakest grasp on the basics of economics, politics, and history.

[Anonymous No.10295550]

>>10295046
Money doesnt make sense on an interplanetary scale since you would have the technology to extract resources easily.

[Anonymous No.10295565]

>>10294356
Go back to >>>/r/eddit

[Anonymous No.10295581]

>>10294527
>>10294425
You realize that NK is not communist?

[Anonymous No.10295631]

>>10294311
All these space enthusiast going for Mars do not realize how poor the planet is. I'm not talking about the low gravity, high radiation, no breathable and all the other factors that make colonization impossible. I'm talking about how poor it is. There are barely any ressources there to support anything beyond small science-outposts. You would literally be better off trying to build a self-sufficient civilization in Antarctis or at the base camp of Mount Everest, purely ressources-wise. And doing that is essentially impossible. Instead, you would bring self-sufficient biospheres/habitats and assemble them there. However, if you do that, it is actually even cheaper to just do it near-earth space, make it spin for atificial gravity, and live there happily ever after. A mars colony therefore will never happen.

[Anonymous No.10295669]

It would need to become self sustaining, the ability to get food and water on its on. It would "win" because its way too far away.

[Anonymous No.10295686]

>>10295669
Sending bombs there isn't expensive or hard. You could send dozens of nukes there for a few billions.

[Anonymous No.10295758]

>>10295686
To do what? Blow up trillions of dollars of material you already paid for, to teach someone a lesson about... Something?

[Anonymous No.10295767]

>>10295669
You need more than food and water to be self sufficient on an off world colony. You've got need for all kinds of consumables. Medicine comes to mind as a big one.
Beyond that, Mars Colony would need an established industrial base so they could manufacture anything they didn't bring with them without needing it to be sourced back home and schlepped across the solar system.

[Anonymous No.10295773]

>>10295758
You lose it either way, so at least blow it up. That's how rome got big, fool.

[Anonymous No.10295788]

>>10295758
To prevent potential dominant power in space.
To prevent loss of prestige due to being a weakling who can't do anything about rebellious colony.
To satisfy public demands.
To have fun by preventing other people from having fun.

[Anonymous No.10295791]

>>10294356
Back to plebbit you go!

[Anonymous No.10295822]

>>10295767
I would imagine the biggest boom industry will be insurance. Imagine how much rich bastards would pay for travel insurance.

[Anonymous No.10296055]

>>10295788
>To prevent potential dominant power in space.
The Asteroid Ring colonies are the dominant space power, every time. Mars is a colonial backwater in charge of sweet fanny fuck-all.
Also why would public opinion matter? It's not like there's that much cross culture exchanges across the gulf of space. They wouldn't share any borders, no markets overlap, and no pressure for Terran-Scum to ever even notice the mars colonies outside of a few people.
I mean at least with traditional trans-oceanic colonialism the idea is to make their resources your resources, and I just keep running into the problem of what Mars has that anyone earthbound needs enough to make the cost/benefit turn in your favor over a timeline investors would.
>>10295822
I'd hate to be the underwriter because im already thinking how I could scam that.

[Anonymous No.10296377]

>>10294311
In order to win a war with Earth, it would need superior infrastructure in space, and space warfare.

Mars wouldn't need supply independence, just space dominance. Once that is achieved, Mars could simply bomb earth's military/space industry back to stone age and get resources after either Earth surrenders or Martians repopulate earth with robots to farm the land for automated resource gathering.

[Anonymous No.10296449]

>>10296377
Great. That's then 2 dead planets. Friggin' GE-NI-US.

[Anonymous No.10296520]

>>10296377
You must play a lot of those RTS games.

[Anonymous No.10296672]

>>10296520
>the virgin rts vs the chad 4X
If you know what you're doing they're losing their colonies to your superior civilization and culture faster than they can mobilize their fleets.

[Anonymous No.10296931]

>>10294311
>independence
What do you mean by independence? Complete independence, as in, nothing goes from Earth (including research & media) to Mars, and possibly nothing goes from Mars to Earth? Or just some political distinction that is meaningless and corporations still own and dictate everything, corporations that are tied to the economy at large, which means dictated by Earth and its ongoings.

[Anonymous No.10296985]

>>10296931
independence =! cut off from everything
if it did, the united states would not count as an independent nation, due to their trade with others

[Anonymous No.10297004]

>>10294311
The Singularity will happen and AI will cause humanity to go extinct before a Martian society would ever have a chance to exist. If a Martian society existed, it would probably consist of superintelligent robots turning Mars into paperclips.

[Anonymous No.10297028]

>>10296985
That's my point. There's degrees to it, as there is in today's world.

[Anonymous No.10297042]

>>10297028
not for those who aren't obsessed with being a pedant

[Anonymous No.10297243]

>>10297004
We would need humans to biometrically interface with the AI so as to tell it he's one of us and would therefore never hurt humans. Either that, or go the route of Lain Iwakura - a scenario where part of the AI *IS* human, accepts its burden of being a God and convinces itself it has to protect humans.

[Anonymous No.10297287]

>>10295352
>What are accidents
How many accidents have killed entire countries again?
>>10295550
Not him but what? To send stuff to set up a colony in the first place costs money. All that equipment, those resources, people, rockets etc are coming from Earth and people will want to be paid for them. If your colony continues to require imports, then they will continue to require payment. And a colony won't be able to manufacture everything. There's a huge chain of interdependent manufacturing capabilities that allow the modern world to function, and it will take generations upon generations to replicate that on anther planet.
>>10295346
Again, not him but even with something like a space elevator driving down costs, shipping is always going to be a significant fraction of the cost. The example I've seen is if you had that space elevator and wanted to build in geostationary orbit, not even then ship it to another planet with expensive rockets, just float something next to the exit point for the elevator for absolute minimum shipping costs. In that scenario, >98% of the cost of formed steel for your construction is from shipping. A tiny fraction of the cost is the actual product. And thats with technology we don't have driving shipping costs down and without having to send it to Mars or the Moon as well.
>>10295631
Mars is geologically similar to Earth. It's had hydrological and volcanic processes. It has all the same resources as Earth does. Space habitats have all the same problems as planetary habitats, except now its much harder to access the required resources to build, expand and maintain your colony.

[Anonymous No.10297293]

Martian society would bei incredibly advance. Akstronauts must be uber chads multiple phds perfect health etc... A society made by this kind of people in a place where doung science is almost all you can dao would give incrediblevresults very fast

[Anonymous No.10297330]

>>10297287
>Mars is geologically similar to Earth. It's had hydrological and volcanic processes. It has all the same resources as Earth does. Space habitats have all the same problems as planetary habitats, except now its much harder to access the required resources to build, expand and maintain your colony.
It has no protective atmospher
It has no protective magnetic field
It has no liquid water
It has no habital zones
It has no life
It has no oxygen

Mars is a corpse of a distant Earth. You can't bring the dead back to life.

[Anonymous No.10297409]

>>10297330
>It has no protective atmospher
>It has no protective magnetic field
Don't spend more than 1/5th of your time outside and you'll be within the generous allowance that US radiation workers are allotted for safe exposures.
>It has no liquid water
But it still has plenty of water available. 5 quadrillion tonnes of it. More than enough for a population
>It has no habital zones
Its vacuum, the temperature isn't a big deal. But also it does get as warm as 20C at the equator.
>It has no life
So?
>It has no oxygen
It has plenty of oxygen, it just needs to be extracted. The atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide.
> low gravity, high radiation, no breathable and all the other factors that make colonization impossible
Also I just realized you said this, which is hilarious because none of that makes it impossible.

Colonizing another celestial body is hard and likely exceedingly expensive but theres nothing about it that makes it impossible. Mars isn't missing some vital resource we can't live without. It has the raw materials. They need to extracted and processed just like we extract and refine resources here on Earth, but they're still there.

[Anonymous No.10297469]

>>10297409
>Mars isn't missing some vital resource we can't live without. It has the raw materials. They need to extracted and processed just like we extract and refine resources here on Earth, but they're still there.
Sure.
>Don't spend more than 1/5th of your time outside and you'll be within the generous allowance that US radiation workers are allotted for safe exposures.
Vitamin D deficiency. This is already a common deficiency on Earth where people get much more time outside. Where will people get this from on Mars? It cannot be extracted from rocks there.
>But it still has plenty of water available. 5 quadrillion tonnes of it. More than enough for a population
There's plenty of water in Earth's oceans, doesn't mean we're able to use it for anything. Water quality is a big deal, processing water is not trivial, it's something we have serious problems with on Earth,
>Its vacuum, the temperature isn't a big deal. But also it does get as warm as 20C at the equator.
So double shit for growing any food there then.
>It has plenty of oxygen, it just needs to be extracted. The atmosphere is 95% carbon dioxide.
Oh yeah, turning carbon dioxide into oxygen, totally not an issue we have on Earth right now.

Solve these problems on Earth and Mars would at least look more likely, but these aren't problems that go away just because you want them to because Mars is cool..

[Anonymous No.10297654]

>>10297469
>Vitamin D deficiency. This is already a common deficiency on Earth where people get much more time outside. Where will people get this from on Mars? It cannot be extracted from rocks there.
Use a lamp that puts out UVB? We already do this with people with malabsorption issues.
>There's plenty of water in Earth's oceans, doesn't mean we're able to use it for anything. Water quality is a big deal, processing water is not trivial, it's something we have serious problems with on Earth,
And 300 million people get their water from desalination. 4% of the world population.
The entire 4.2 million strong populace of Kuwait depends entirely on it as their sole source of water. Its not magic.
The problem is that the places that need water are often too poor and too far to afford it. You could just sit your colony next to one of the half mile thick glaciers of perchlorate free water ice and use the low pressures to get low energy cost clean water supplies.
>So double shit for growing any food there then.
That's external temperature. You're in a giant thermos right next to a giant thermal sink, make it any temperature you like.
>Oh yeah, turning carbon dioxide into oxygen, totally not an issue we have on Earth right now.
Gee if only we had processes like photosynthesis or electrolysis that could produce oxygen on Mars.

[Anonymous No.10297741]

>>10294311
If Martian Society became succesful it would by definition win a war against earth.
If both became succesful however, now the fun begins.

[Anonymous No.10297748]

>>10297287
>It's had hydrological and volcanic processes

It does, but much much less so than earth. It also has way less asteroid strikes than earth because of its low gravity. This is why the planet is incredibely poor in ressources compared to earth. It also lacks large water reserves (rivers and oceans) that tend to collect ressources in concentrated deposits.

This is the truth. There is simply not much there to build a civilization out of except for rocks, and those aren't useful.

[Anonymous No.10297753]

Mars has easier access to the asteroid belt. So they can simply chuck rocks at earth.

[Anonymous No.10297821]

>>10297654
None of that is feasible within soon. But as the biggest money pit the world has ever seen, I think a "Mars colony" might solve the war on terror. Peace on Earth perhaps? Who knows. Keep dreaming. The moon is much more interesting to start a colony on by the way.

[Anonymous No.10298112]

>>10297748
> way less asteroid strikes than earth because of its low gravity.
Meteorites are irrelevant, they're negligible compared to what's on the planet due to formation.
Meteoroids are also more likely entry on Mars.
>It also lacks large water reserves (rivers and oceans) that tend to collect ressources in concentrated deposits.
It lacks them now, but it had them in the past. That accumulation takes place over geological timescales and Mars had the required processes for the required lengths time. Mars' topography is still largely shaped by these bodies of water.
>>10297821
Lol wut. No all of that is doable right now. We have lamps like that in that very use right now, the sublimation method requires at most a fancy microwave (and doesn't even really need that), and electrolysis isn't some arcane magic either.

[Anonymous No.10298142]

>>10298112
>they're negligible compared to what's on the planet due to formation
Uh, what? Pretty much all of Earth's important metal seams are due to meteorite impact. The most valuable stuff you can mine tends to be heavier than everything else and tends to sink to the center of the gravity well, unless you're mining the planet's core you're not getting shit from what was left from formation.

[Anonymous No.10298180]

>>10297821
>The moon is much more interesting to start a colony on by the way.
5 years ago everyone said that the Moon is useless and already studied so that's why we never formed a colony
Now "the Moon is very interesting"
What are they hiding?

[Anonymous No.10298195]

>>10298180
Nothing, /x/anon
it's standard practice to belittle something one does not want to expend effort in doing
They say the moon is worthless because important people did not care for the moon
now that important people want to visit and industrialize it, the peasants all flock to copy their opinions verbatim

[Anonymous No.10298221]

>>10298195
hear hear

[Anonymous No.10298458]

>>10298112
>No all of that is doable right now.
Then do it, and while you're at it solve all the related problems on Earth.

[Anonymous No.10298463]

>>10298142
The entirety of Mars surface is covered in iron rich material. Here on Earth 5% of the crust is iron. That didn't come from impacts.
To continue using Iron as an example, most ores are formed through sedimentary deposition but volcanic and hydrothermal effects can also directly create exploitable concentrations like those in Chile.
It is true that all of the metallic iron in the crust is from strikes however, with the rare exception of an intrusion that makes it's way up from the mantle.

[Anonymous No.10298513]

>>10298180
>Now "the Moon is very interesting"
Almost like the chinamen are instigating a low key space race or something.

[Anonymous No.10298533]

>>10298463
>The entirety of Mars surface is covered in iron rich material.
Maybe. But it's still going to be cheaper and easer to just mine the asteroid belt for materials.

[Anonymous No.10298657]

>>10294311
>Would the severity of their environment cause them to push for eugenics and strict meritocracy?
Hi /pol/, good job at being subtle

[Anonymous No.10298688]

>>10294356

[Anonymous No.10298732]

>>10294356
>WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE!

[Anonymous No.10298739]

>>10298463
Iron oxide is not iron you brainlet.

[Anonymous No.10298785]

>>10298533
Cheaper in what way?

[Anonymous No.10298795]

>>10298739
here is your upbote fellow reddit troll boster :DDD 4channlers btfo lol ++

[Anonymous No.10298845]

>>10298785
You don't need to bring anything up from a gravity well.

[Anonymous No.10298880]

>>10298463
>The entirety of Mars surface is covered in iron rich material. Here on Earth 5% of the crust is iron.
And as we all know, iron is the rarest and most precious of metals. Gee, if only we had more iron.

[Anonymous No.10299066]

>>10298845
What about getting to and from one asteroid to another in a humans lifetime? Teleportation?

[Anonymous No.10299083]

>>10294311
mars will be the ethnostate
earthside libtards destroyed

[Anonymous No.10299232]

>>10294311
>Would the severity of their environment cause them to push for eugenics and strict meritocracy?
No. You're going to have enough problems keeping people alive without some edgelord trying to push Eugenics.
As for meritocracy, no. Cooperation is going to be far more important than individual achievement. Building and expanding your colony is going to be a lot more important than accolades.

[Anonymous No.10299680]

>>10298845
That assumes you're bringing anything out of the gravity well. A Mars colony isn't going to be mining for export, they'll be mining for their own use.
>>10294714
And a thousand other things including the pretty famous Mars Trilogy. Which were you thinking of exactly?
>>10294311
Your actual questions didn't get answered much in this thread. Just devolved into how and if early colonization works just like every thread. Maybe try /k/ if you want to discuss Mars War?

[Anonymous No.10299687]

>>10294311
>If Martian society ever became successful and declared independence from earth would it win a war with it?
"Space Wars" Will not become a thing ever. Besides, if a small, irrelevant colony of a few thousand martians went independent for some dumb reason, why not just abandon them and set up a new one of loyalists a few thousand miles away where they can't touch you

[Anonymous No.10299711]

>>10299687
>"Space Wars" Will not become a thing ever

[Anonymous No.10299739]

>>10294532
>but there's a 10% we can get the new ammonia pumps to you in time.
Why wouldn't they have a stockpile of extra ammonia pumps tho?

[Anonymous No.10299743]

can someone photoshop a few drill rigs into this, just a few pad sites on the martian surface

[Anonymous No.10299745]

>>10299739
The stockpile was hit with a meteor shower.

[Anonymous No.10299972]

>>10299745
How did the meteor hit something underground?

[Anonymous No.10300008]

>>10299687
Who said it's only a few thousand people? Colonies are meant to grow basically definition. What stops said loyalists rebelling for the same reasons, whatever those were? Also you can only get 6000 miles from them anyway. Its not like they won't have rovers if not trains, rockets etc.
>>10299745
So EVERY individual habitat had a part failure in the main system AND the redundancy at the same time a meteor shower struck the stock pile. Wow either we have a network or saboteurs or God really really doesn't want us on Mars.

[Anonymous No.10300079]

>>10299066
>What about getting to and from one asteroid to another in a humans lifetime? Teleportation?
They're not much farther out than mars, and the Dawn mission visited and orbited two asteroids inside of 4 years. Ceres and vesta are also about as far away as two things can be in the asteroid belt.
You can build standford tori with existing material, and enjoy full earth gravity and a wealthy community of space chad colonies that become the industrial and financial powerhouse of the solar system. At least until hydrocarbon refining gets going on titan.

[Anonymous No.10300087]

>>10300079
by the time we get the refining equipment all the way to titan and set up, we will have fusion down, rendering hydrocarbons obsolete
plus, titan is better used as a server farm than anything else

[Anonymous No.10300105]

>>10300087
>rendering hydrocarbons obsolete
Horse shit. You think the only thing people use it for is gas? How much plastic and rubber is around you right now?
You're also talking about a timeline where manufacturing in space is already established. You just need a contractor in the belt that can get you a couple modular refineries built to your specifications, then tow it to Saturn.

[Anonymous No.10300122]

>>10300105
let me rephrase then, you raging autist
Hydrocarbon pumping will be obsolete, for fusion would allow cheap synthesizing of artificial hydrocarbons for plastic and rubber production
Yes, earth based sources will probably continue to be tapped, but we will not be going all the way out to the fucking moon of saturn to get more of the stuff

[Anonymous No.10300142]

>>10300122
>we will not be going all the way out to the fucking moon of saturn to get more of the stuff
Why, in this scenario we're talking about mars and asteroid colonies, if you've got that established going to titan is a logical next step. It's an arbitrary increase in difficulty, and you've already got generations of people who are just fine with living in space habs.

[Anonymous No.10300153]

10300142
>this complete and utter fucking lack of reading comprehension

[Anonymous No.10300597]

>>10294532
Yeah but muh delta v, nevermind a round trip taking two fucking years, delta v is almost the same so let's go to mars instead.

I mean, with the same delta v you could also go to Alpha Centauri, the trip would take billions of years, but the delta v would be the same, so lets go there, amiriteguys

[Anonymous No.10301463]

>>10300008
>Who said it's only a few thousand people?
Having more than a few thousand people living on Mars will be a pipe dream at this point. It would take decades for them to become even mostly self sufficient, and unless they're providing value to their host there's little point in them being there.
>What stops said loyalists rebelling for the same reasons, whatever those were?
They'd be getting paid handsomely and rotated out every few years so their health doesn't degenerate completely.
>Also you can only get 6000 miles from them anyway. Its not like they won't have rovers if not trains, rockets etc.
If you want to assume your hypothetical colony that's just been abandoned by their sponsor would dedicate their limited industrial base into fighting a pointless war they have no chance of winning, then ok. The entire concept of permanent colonization of Mars is a pipe dream anyway.

[Anonymous No.10301480]

>>10299972
It sent a seismic shock through the ground and screwed up all the dimensions or something.

>>10300008
>Wow either we have a network or saboteurs or God really really doesn't want us on Mars.
That's also a possibility, what about intentional sabotage? Or a manufacturing defect? There are many possibilities. You tend to find there are times where people try to push systems to their breaking points because they feel there's too much chaff or whatever, really you just need shitty politics on Mars and everyone suddenly dies. Everything can fail.

[Anonymous No.10301485]

>>10301463
>and unless they're providing value to their host
This, though I think atm they're providing value via ideology or similar. So for Musk and friends, they'd fund it because that's where they could hide away from computers or whatever.

[Anonymous No.10301921]

>>10294311
>What would Martian society be like?

[Anonymous No.10302171]

>>10301921
you're late

[Anonymous No.10302719]

This thread lacks images.

[Anonymous No.10302756]

>>10301463
>They'd be getting paid handsomely
So why didn't you just do that for the first lot?
>If you want to assume your hypothetical colony that's just been abandoned by their sponsor would dedicate their limited industrial base into fighting a pointless war they have no chance of winning, then ok.
Nah was just pointing your arguments had holes. It's not even about war in the traditional sense. If they're going to die from being unsupported as you claim, they're going to try to merge with or take what they need from whatever other colony you send. And 6000 miles just isn't that far when the only alternative is death.

[Anonymous No.10302768]

>>10302756
>So why didn't you just do that for the first lot?
My point was that there won't be martian rebellions because there won't be mars colonies.
>And 6000 miles just isn't that far when the only alternative is death
It's the equivalent of driving from New York city to Southern Argentina, except you're doing it in a frozen desert with frequent dust storms. My point is that it simply won't happen

[Anonymous No.10302880]

>>10302719
I want one

[Anonymous No.10302883]

War is retarded and a waste of time. They’d peacefully secede unless Earth was ruled by some kind of totalitarian empire.

[Anonymous No.10302982]

>>10302768
Except with no oceans, vegetation, rivers, predators, weather and largely over nice flat terrain based on likely colony sites.
The pioneers on the Oregon Trail covered 2200 miles on foot and oxen and covered wagons.
>dust storms
Which don't do squat to hinder you unless you're relying on solar power and even then rarely. Mars deserts aren't like the Sahara, and the dust storms aren't like the ones there either. They make it dark but they don't bog vehicles or significantly impede vision as long as you bring lights. And even those sort of storms are infrequent - once every 5.5 years.

[Anonymous No.10303072]

>>10294532
my belief is luna should be an industry base where we mine and refine metals to be turned into space faring ships and orbital habits like elyslium or halo. the delta v equation means its super cheap to be building large scale space projects without having to fly 100 tonnes a pop at earth gravity @ 100million a pop.
i dunno if someone wants to do the equation what how much could a fully fueled falcon 9 lift under luna gravity.

[Anonymous No.10303073]

>>10294681
its so hostile and small, in the longterm short term it will be a unified nation, people literally will need to depend on each other to survive.