/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10282117]

what gives time the energy to flow?

[Anonymous No.10282157]

>>10282117
dark matter

[Anonymous No.10282183]

>>10282117
Time is a spatial dimension. It doesn't flow.

[Anonymous No.10282188]

>>10282183
Then what gives matter the energy to travel in that dimension?

[Anonymous No.10282195]

>>10282117

Fire.

[Anonymous No.10282197]

>>10282188
You need no energy to move, only to accelerate and to overcome friction. I am not sure there is friction along the time axis.

[Anonymous No.10282198]

>>10282188
God

[Anonymous No.10282210]

>>10282117
Time isn't really moving, it's like a ruler; it doesn't go anywhere it just measures

[Anonymous No.10282263]

>>10282183
>>10282210
Sure, time is a dimension, and let’s even say that all things past and future already exist, that time is one big composition of all these moments. You still have the conscious observer, who experiences time at a certain rate. Why are we not experiencing the universe in twice the speed, or half?

[Anonymous No.10282321]

time flows like water
flat, like surface of pond
all system seek stable states

[Anonymous No.10282380]

the will of unseen beings that we can not and do not understand.

[Anonymous No.10282382]

>>10282117
The great attractor

[Anonymous No.10282430]

OK then what gives us the energy to move through time

[Anonymous No.10282436]

>>10282430
mass

[Anonymous No.10282440]

>>10282430
duh, the same thing that gives time energy

[Anonymous No.10282577]

>>10282117
Super Male Vitality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Phb-jdM4WyQ

[Anonymous No.10282578]

>>10282117
the fractal flow of the multiverse
eternal inflation

[Anonymous No.10282581]

>>10282117
Willpower.

[Anonymous No.10282584]

>>10282263
>Why are we not experiencing the universe in twice the speed, or half?
Because of the part of the universe you currently occupy. In another part you might experience it differently. It's still a mystery why we travel "through" time at any rate at all.

[Anonymous No.10282589]

>>10282584
For all we know, time itself is dilating intensely and our senses simply maintain a coherent image of time travel anyway because we can't in any way detect those alterations, since we're altered by them too (to an outside/transcendent observer).

[Anonymous No.10282637]

The universe is progressing from a low entropy configuration to a higher one. Entropy gives rise to the arrow of time, it's not an energy but a property. You should reword the question to. "What properties cause time to flow towards," for my own convenience mate

[Anonymous No.10282642]

>>10282637
Fowards*

[aaron No.10282681]

>>10282117
time is just a concept of human rationalisation

[Anonymous No.10282821]

>>10282117
Like all things need energy to flow.

[Anonymous No.10283190]

>>10282117
What property does time have?

>>10282183
Time has no dimensionality whatsoever. It has no properties, no attributes, is not a phenomena nor modality of anything. It's completely made up by humans in an effort to order things in the human world.

[Anonymous No.10283310]

>>10282430
food

[Anonymous No.10283371]

>>10282263
>Why are we not experiencing the universe in twice the speed, or half?
That doesn't even mean anything anon.

[Anonymous No.10283381]

>>10282117
Entropy, of course.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

[Anonymous No.10283428]

>>10283190
I disagree. Time is the phenomenon that arises from the distinguishable relative states of all physical objects in an ensemble. As long as there are two or more distinguishable states there is time expressed through the possibility of transition between these states.

[Anonymous No.10283435]

>>10282430
THERMODYNAMICS

[Anonymous No.10283511]

The arrow of time is just the vector pointing toward increasing entropy.

[Anonymous No.10284469]

>>10282197
then why does time run faster when im having fun? Fun must be what makes time accelerate

[Anonymous No.10284500]

>>10283190
>Time has no dimensionality whatsoever. It has no properties, no attributes, is not a phenomena nor modality of anything. It's completely made up by humans in an effort to order things in the human world.
Different observers see different events as simultaneous -- how can time just be a human invention if different observers have a different definition of the present? It's as real as the spatial dimensions, which can also be chopped into different planes (say perpendicular to your velocity) by different people.

[Anonymous No.10285007]

time does not flow
time describes a flow

[Anonymous No.10285078]

>>10282117
>time it's a measure from low to high kinetic energy
>kinetic energy = moving matter
>dark matter accounts for 85% of the universe
>ur mom's bagina attracts 100% dark matter
>???
>ur mom gives time the energy to flow

[Anonymous No.10285089]

>>10283511
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

wrong; retarded detected

[Anonymous No.10285120]

>>10284469
>Subjective perception vs objective measurement
A watched pot boils in the same time as an unwatched pot.

[Anonymous No.10285867]

>>10283428
>Time is the phenomenon
yeah, and what "property" does it have?

>that arises from the distinguishable relative states of all physical objects in an ensemble.
Order is order. Order has nothing to do with time, it has to do with the actual thing being ordered relative to another

>As long as there are two or more distinguishable states there is time expressed through the possibility of transition between these states.
Time is a quality? What are you saying here?

>>10284500
>Different observers see different events as simultaneous -- how can time just be a human invention if different observers have a different definition of the present?
It depends on the observer? What does a squirrel see? What does a blind person see? How is either and their differences related to the human nomenclature of assigning quantities to things?

>It's as real as the spatial dimensions, which can also be chopped into different planes (say perpendicular to your velocity) by different people.
Dimension obviously implies dimensionality. We live in "a dimension" yes. How is "time" a dimension? It has no "dimensional" properties. Is it the "time" dimension? How would it define itself?

[Anonymous No.10286011]

>>10282117
Time is a flat circle. It does't require energy to flow. It just is.

[Anonymous No.10286183]

Uh.. entanglement?

[Anonymous No.10286190]

>>10282681
If you think this then by that logic anything could be classified as an arbitrary human concept. What is the argument for time not being real?

[Anonymous No.10286203]

>>10286011
>Time just is
Right. The better question would be, not "why does time flow" (it doesn't), but "why do we PERCEIVE time as flowing?" This second question is still pretty mysterious, and it ties into the question of consciousness.

[Anonymous No.10286210]

>>10286203
Entanglement

[Anonymous No.10286211]

What I'm getting from this is that time is static like the other spatial dimensions.
Then why isn't time just another spacial dimension? It behaves different from them.

[Anonymous No.10286237]

It is theorized that the arrow of time is the increase in entropy (at a universal scale).

[Anonymous No.10286250]

>>10285007
Fuck me somebody in this thread actually got it. 10 points.

Time is a source of measurable flow.

[Anonymous No.10286259]

>>10286211
It's relative to our own creations. There is no point in the universe where time began or where time ends, it is all just a bunch of space interacting with a bunch of space. We use time to make sense of the different changes that occur during these interactions.

[Anonymous No.10286344]

>>10282263
>Why are we not experiencing the universe in twice the speed, or half?
Everything would be exactly the same, including your perception of it.

[Anonymous No.10286346]

>>10286211
It's from relativity.

[Anonymous No.10286349]

>>10286211
If you mean why does time have the opposite sign in the metric signature, the real answer is nobody knows. But it's certainly fundamental to the way our universe is (look up hyperbolic PDEs and causality/ability to predict the future).

[Anonymous No.10286685]

Read this
You should find it in english as well but the original cover looks better

[Anonymous No.10286731]

>>10282188
E=mc^2
Energy and matter are interchangeable.
Matter is also a wave.

[Anonymous No.10287553]

>>10286731
Ah. I get it now. For time being a spacial dimension and matter being a wave, time flows like water. But where does it get its energy from? Is that because of inertia?

[Anonymous No.10287916]

>>10286731
>Matter is also a wave.
A wave is what something does.
Matter is what it does?

>>10286211
You can explain and cause every phenomena to happen without the use of time. The "time" is just a recording of the magnitude of said phenomena. You can drive faster to work by expending more gas at a "faster rate", but that doesn't mean you're "adding time" or "subtracting time" from what's actually occurring in reality. Time isn't impeding you, it's the medium which you reside in that's impeding you. The air pressure causes you to "travel slower", but that's because you encounter physical tangible resistance.
You can alter this medium or the vehicle that passes in the medium, but to equate that to "altering time" is absurd. By that logic everything is just "time", which is obviously not the case because >>10285867 Time has no properties.

[Anonymous No.10288002]

>>10287916
>You can explain and cause every phenomena to happen without the use of time.
Okay. Maybe it is because I'm a brainlet, but I don't understand how something can "happen" without time playing a huge role in that. You mention "time" is a recording of its magnitude. The recording itself is a happening, and time must apply for it to happen. This is very confusion.

[Anonymous No.10288156]

>>10288002
>The recording itself is a happening
no it's a recording of the happening.
>and time must apply for it to happen
No, it happens and then is recorded with the human language known as "math", which includes time. No, math is not how the universe works, it's how it's described.

[Anonymous No.10288343]

>>10288156
Sounds like a load of bologne semantics if you ask me. You say "time" equates a recording of a happening. Well then you've successfully identified a property of time - which as you stated earlier, cannot exist. Remember you said "Time has no properties,"? This confuses me.

[Anonymous No.10288381]

>>10282117
The space-time fabric is warped by the mass of objects. This gives us gravity, and time.

[Anonymous No.10288546]

>>10288343
You say "time" equates a recording of a happening.
According to humans as perceived by humans yes...

>Well then you've successfully identified a property of time - which as you stated earlier, cannot exist. Remember you said "Time has no properties,"?
How does a human recording something make it exist? A recording is a recording, a thing existing is a thing existing. It's like measuring a door and then saying "inches exist". Yeah...inches of what? The door obviously (the thing that exists). The door has properties...the inches have no properties. Measurements are not properties and time is a measurment...therefore time has no properties and has no basis in reality.

You can consider time as existing as a concept...but that has no basis in reality. Like saying unicorns are real, they aren't but the idea of unicorns is in fact real.

[Anonymous No.10288613]

>>10288546
>You can consider time as existing as a concept...but that has no basis in reality.
Okay that's it! I'm too dumb for this board. I'm out!

[Anonymous No.10289959]

The problem is this in one way: Einstein was a dirty Jew that was okay discarding Newton's absolute time but wait hold on there don't dare break up spacetime gentile. He could not accept the non-locality of QM for a long time either. Einstein did not consider gravity to be a force with a force mediator, rather it was a property force.Einstein's field eqns with a singularity (infinity) give two options: a space singularity where matter is condensed and a blackhole is nonrotating without charge. The other: a time-singularity where light comes from a region of infinite curvature and the blackhole is spinning and with charge.

Black holes come into existence all the time, they are just so tiny their entropy forces them evaporate. But wait let me show you how interconnected this shit is. Thermodynamics, Einstein's Equations, and the most beautiful most proven set of eqns Maxwell's are all related you can get the others from Max's. Einstein noticed you could remove a variable from Maxwell's then he used Planck's blackbody thermo research on quanta to say EM fields gave off light, and it was real. Bohr's model proved it right. QED is the bedrock of all our understanding of physics as QCD mirrors it except at low energy level where perturbations fuck with it.

But Penrose and Hawking;s blackholes, well they make assumptions the data show (like shape of the universe), but there are questions that cannot be answered. QED, the bedrock, brings electric and magnetic fields (no dif) together with alpha radiation (weak force). This is only at super high and super low energies. Einstein's equations may not hold for super high or super low energies, which give a fuckton of possibility. Doubly special relativity etc

The link to entropy and thermo: now this is all unproven, we can't experiment on blackholes yet; Hawking Radiation shows black holes evaporating over time giving off heat. Cont

[Anonymous No.10289978]

>>10289959
So thats a big wtf there. Black holes giving off heat using thermo equations... well enthakpy and entropy /?/ time are all related. Read on it bc thermo, qed, and math is my shit.

But a ton of it rests on the relation between the very small working outside of time in a sense, and the very big working inside it. Hawking Radiation is a big mindfuck.

Also a lot has to do with the very assumption of spacetime as a manifold, and shit changes drastically if its a Minkowski or Hilbert.

But entropy is the give away. The only way entopy to reverse is if time reverses, which is usually associated with an oscillitating or bouncing universe (big bang restarts),

Hawking's version of the singularity soln starts forward and goes back to the big bang and has it at infinite density.

Penrose would be good to look up, he may have been wrong a lot, but he was partially right too and the math he gave has helped other areas and opened new doors unlike fucking string bullshit. Spin networks give a mmathematical way to describe loop quantum gravity and generalized to spacetime gives spinfoam. He also has twister theory to try to bridge the non-locality of QM.

But there are a number of interpretations: think of time and well space as a series of causal triangles that are like tiles on a floor assembling as you walk on them, other versions of that, the universe is hyperdetermined meaning everything incl QM wavefront was determined at the big bang, block time, past/present/future all exist at the same time, etc

But I like Penrose for his math and his one sane interpretation of the wave function collapse. Problem is to prove it: We need to put mirrors on two moons and shoot a photon laser splitter from the dark side of our moon and measure the deflection.

We are basically ending science and physics and engineering soonish. We're pretty fucking stupid to keep the power status quo we never used nuclear then went beyond it and now we dont know until we see energy extremes

[Anonymous No.10290000]

Oh and the holographic theory will fuck with you but is gaining ground. That QM and GR are happening at a lower dimension, We may be traped in a black whole accretion disk.

Or gravity might be bosons coming in from a nearby brane universe in the multiverse, Or leftovers from when two branes separated.

I've always been suspicious of the photon, That smug fuck sitting alone on the standard model. One theory is that the graviton will be right beside it,

But you can look up theories of time or philosophy of time. All dumb shit with no evidence. We don't know what more than 3/4 of the universe fucking is and we want to game gerneralizations.

I could give you an esoteric philosophical interpretation that cobined aristotle, avicinna, and shurawadi. It had shit like exitence precedes essense 350 years before and much of our physics agrees with him somewhat.


And then there is an entrely semi-new and very applicative to AI, and when shit gets down to nano--thus quantum--level based that matter and shit is not fundamental, but time is or rather the changes between forms are which may or not may be called time. But the math works just um like barely anyone does it cuz its too fucking hard.

tldr; A Jew in a patent office overnight physicist? come on be real. he made a lot of fuck ups

[Anonymous No.10290061]

>>10290000
>>10290000
oh and there's tons of theories on time; all are untestable so they must be discarded else... well science is literally dead. There was a big hubub in QM a little while back because some experiments with 10k+ people on the internet set the parameters for the measurements and well... all were fucking different then two faggot QM researchers I cant remember put up a thought exp kinda like the cat in the box one but you put a scientist that already knows the results of the measurement in the box and well shit is still different so questions were starting up what the fuck is the point of this then?

also de-broglie

wave, particle
field, guage (though, we're pretty sure fields are fundamental esp with the Higgs Field being the only non-zero low energy field that ives off a mediator that gives mass)
superliminal speed, spooky action at a distance
entropy and time
gravity as a property or a force
time or matter
entropy, time, and enthalpy being regurgitated

all are asking the same fucking question in different ways. though ultimately, thermo is the way to look at it from the widest scope possible that is if the universe is closed, internal work is bah blah all the limitations have to be in place which we always presumed as asking what's outside the universe or whats before time are stupid fucking questions but now we dunno

we dunno these are the most fundamental shit that really divides everything onto a side of time or matter

all are asking if fundamentally is matter dependent on time or the other way, so every real science breaks down at that point

Einstein thought time didnt exist btw it was only subjective the universe is all there is physically and its shaped in a way and thats how it is. time is conscious and there is no such thing as choice
but... hes a Jew, can you really trust him to tell you whether or not to give up on life and livee like a jew or affirm life and live like a roman crucifying jews? and german...

[Anonymous No.10290080]

>>10282117
Time is the only chad dimension that's why you can't influence it

[Anonymous No.10290081]

>>10282430
Fear of what lays behind suicide

[Anonymous No.10290104]

Oh here is what I wanted to link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetric_theory_of_stochastic_dynamics

That's really your question, The part that real dynamic systems cannot be isolated well... we'd think the fucking universe is, If they can get an answer for particles that'll clear a lot of questions and chuck out a ton of models as symmetry, at all or to what extent, and parity of different types, whether this breaks that or not define different models of quantum theory all work because we dont have the tools to test shit.

All kinda based on whether or not shit fits a model meaning this is limited and under these conditions. that article is trying without showing much math that dynamic systems depend on a property that is where shit is unevenly distributed but unpredictable but analyzable, a basic thing of thermo to know

So as you can see, we just do random shit and find ways to explain it while keeping the shit that works. we dont actually know shit and cant know if you ask about if time is real or not or dont know because the experiments requires tools. the more precise the more answers we get. engineers make tools. to make a tool costs energy. our limitation is energy, and unless they have a a ton of thorium reactors shacked somewhere or came up with a cost-effective way to keep the magnetic field up to contain the plasma or keep the circuitry super cold for quantum comps, we're pretty boned.

it's alreadyy starting. Intel had a big issue with getting down to 10nm. quantum shit starts happening. then spectre/meltdown and computers will not be advancing for a long while. i expect the d-wave simulation of a quantum computer to be big aagain while the nsa has a real one then we'll likely be dead when russia and nato nuke everyone for the resources in the north

WHEN WERE DEAD THEN WE SHALL KNOW IF TIME EXISTS (i doubt it, I dont recall waiting too long to be born)


or try's nietzsche's the gay science and als sprach zarathustra and try not to go insane

[Anonymous No.10290136]

Quantum Field theory? only works cuz of perturbation therory, chuck out this shit so we habe an answer that makes sense

gauge? renormalize that shit yo, same thing lets just cross this shit out thats too big an exponent too many degrees of freedom

and those are limited. science is really a subfield of engineering: does it work? yea but... I HEARD YEA MOVING ON and repeat...

but Nietzsche went insane thinking on the issue of time. I wont go into his the west is decadent or stirner conclusion but the time thing is what he called the most terrifying idea to man.

he revived a pagan idea: eternal reeoccurance. what is and was and forever will be. everything that has happened, that will happen, all has happened before and will again forever and ever so better shut the fuck up and be happy or you'll give in to nihialism (that was Nietzsche's purpose, we killed God with science and now the West is decadent and will fall into nihialism) unless you "love fait" amor fati to love every instance of existence b/c field nigger, you think you have a choice? and what to love in the world? aesthetics so go look a pretty picture and smile.

he ended up writing letters saying he was jesus christ, hugged a horse, and then went catatonic for a few years before dying. SO BEWARE TIME that nigger that warned not to look too long into the abyss, he forgot to blink

kierkegaard would also be good. then camus. and i hate sarte but him too. thats really one end, the other is heidegger to mirror the french and more limited husserl then youd need to get into the psychoanlytic and analytical psychologists for a good read on time and then theres a bit of recent neuro-cognitive research that doesnt tell us much

but unless you believe in a god who made us cursed us for being us then became us died knowing he would not die to save us from himself, i really doubt youre going to give a fuck. when you die, itll be like before youre born so be happy life sucks and you wont even remember it

[Anonymous No.10290711]

>>10282430
THE HIGGS FIELD

[Anonymous No.10290719]

>>10282117
particles that travel through time require allot of energy, given to them by the higgs field (though of course you have to do the work)
photons don't travel through time and thus don't require allot of energy to form

[Anonymous No.10291205]

>>10282117
Matter and space and GOD.

[Anonymous No.10291638]

>>10290719
This blows my mind. The fact that photons get from source to sea in zero spent time.

[Anonymous No.10291653]

>>10282117
Entropy.

No seriously the only difference between 2 different points in time is that entropy increased between these 2 points. This is why time can only move forward because physics mandate that entropy always increases.

[Anonymous No.10291656]

>>10291653
You're one dumb fucking nigger I'll give you that.

Also leave the kitty alone.

[Anonymous No.10291662]

>>10291656
What I said is actually consensus right now. Please don't call people out without knowing what you are talking about.

https://youtu.be/QvexPSRC1tI

[Anonymous No.10291706]

>>10291662
I think he was simply trying to say that you're probably the dumbest nigger ITT. That's a compliment bro.

[Anonymous No.10292024]

>>10282197
Is this why you can't time travel? You can't apply energy enough to change your acceleration on the time axis?

[Anonymous No.10292032]

>>10291662
Is a pop-sci video the best you could do?

Liouville's theorem gives constant entropy for a closed Hamiltonian system.

[Anonymous No.10292039]

test

[Anonymous No.10292071]

Our lives are a speck and our illusion of time is the byproduction of evolution. Before our brains evolved as much as they did our ancestors perception of time is much different. You can actually sense it in lesser evolved people. Remember catching a glimpse of a stroke victim in the waiting room and I can sense a tremendous amount of suffering in him. There's eons of brutality lodged inside all of us. The civilized sensible parts of us are just a shell. As you grow closer to death you'll start to figure it out. It's why older people have a different sense of time.

I'm actually recovering from a stroke myself and my mind has went to dark places. The urge to stay alive was so strong. I could literally feel my mind mending myself on some of the cardio workouts. But I also felt the urge to kill. I had to practically exercise those brutal thoughts to dig my mind out of the grave I dug. I was blown away how people could penetrate my mind,

I can probably go on if anyone is interested

[Anonymous No.10292073]

Our lives are a speck and our illusion of time is the byproduct of evolution. Before our brains evolved as much as they did our ancestors perception of time was much different. You can actually sense it in less fortunate people. Remember catching a glimpse of a stroke victim in the waiting room and I can sense a tremendous amount of suffering in him. There's eons of brutality lodged inside all of us. The civilized sensible parts of us are just a shell. As you grow closer to death you'll start to figure it out. It's why older people have a different sense of time.

I'm actually recovering from a stroke myself and my mind has went to dark places. The urge to stay alive was so strong. I could literally feel my mind mending myself on some of the cardio workouts. But I also felt the urge to kill. I had to practically exercise those brutal thoughts to dig my mind out of the grave I dug. I was blown away how people could penetrate my mind,

[Anonymous No.10292273]

>>10290081
Feels

[Anonymous No.10292276]

>>10282117
More like why does it take time for energy to flow? It should be instantaneous yet everything energy related is transmitted in waves.

[Anonymous No.10292319]

>>10292276
Lol what would instaneity even look like widespread? Wouldn’t it just be like zip bang over

[Anonymous No.10293433]

>>10287916
Time has it's "flow" rate, and there is actually matter and it can slow you down.

[Anonymous No.10293443]

>>10289978
>and the math he gave has helped other areas and opened new doors unlike fucking string bullshit
Said nobody who ever actually studied string theory

[Anonymous No.10293465]

>>10290719
>photons don't travel through time
They travel through time just as much as they travel through space: that's the definition of a lightlike trajectory.
>>10290000
>Oh and the holographic theory will fuck with you but is gaining ground. That QM and GR are happening at a lower dimension
That's part of string theory, you realise?
>Or gravity might be bosons coming in from a nearby brane universe in the multiverse
As is that.
>>10290136
>Quantum Field theory? only works cuz of perturbation therory
QCD relies heavily on non-perturbative effects

[Anonymous No.10293505]

>>10292024
From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you kind of can.

For example, light basically travels instantaneously from it's perspective, even though to us it actually has a measurable speed. Meanwhile local gravity has a strong effect on time, time moves faster in space than on earth, and it moves faster for both than time near a supermassive black hole.

Time is relative

t. probably retarded anon

[Anonymous No.10293524]

>>10293433
>Time has it's "flow" rate

>inches have a flow rate
>centimeters have a flow rate
>cubic area has a flow rate
>a Cartesian coordinate has a flow rate
>circumference has a flow rate
If none of the above made any sense to you then I don't see why "time" does.

>and there is actually matter and it can slow you down.
Matter is not time though...