/sci/ - Science & Math

[Anonymous No.10271095]

*kills IQ*
https://medium.com/incerto/iq-is-largely-a-pseudoscientific-swindle-f131c101ba39

[Anonymous No.10271099]

>>10271095
good article. jannies should pin this thread

[Anonymous No.10271103]

>>10271099
whether Taleb is right or wrong doesn't matter. Would get those newfags and poltards to shut the fuck up a bit.

[Anonymous No.10271122]

>>10271095
>See the formal treatment in my next book.
>Buy my book
>Buy my book
>Buy my book
Gee who would have thought it, someone writes a grossly inflammatory article about something; also has something to sell you about that same something.

Still an interesting article, but given it's by Nassim I could have guessed it would have been about muh fat tails.

[Anonymous No.10271125]

>>10271095
Nassim "IQ is not evertything" Talib

[Anonymous No.10271128]

>>10271103
Hes right, but so are his opponents. This debate is the greatest example of a strawman orgy

[Anonymous No.10271155]

>>10271099
>jannies should pin this thread
No, they shouldn't, it defeats the point of this forum.

>>10271103
>Would get those newfags and poltards to shut the fuck up a bit.
You know that one YouTube "/pol/tard", who is one of their alt-right science man said that he found Talebs critique fair?

I also think I largely agree with Talebs point of IQ not being everything and becomes less relevant the higher it is.

[Anonymous No.10271981]

[Anonymous No.10272017]

>>10271095
>not a Psychologist
>listening to what a fucking essay writer has to say on a psychology topic

[Anonymous No.10272030]

>>10272017
He is a master statistician, IQ is pure statistical masturbation and it's useless because it ignores second order effects.

[Anonymous No.10272037]

>>10272017
he's a mathematician which is better than a psychologist

[Anonymous No.10272071]

>>10272017
>psychology
>anything of value

[Anonymous No.10272082]

>>10271095
Based arabs destroying IQ

[Anonymous No.10272088]

>>10272082
Heh. I understand this joke because I follow his Twitter feed.

[Anonymous No.10272094]

>>10272017
>pyschology
wow it's fucking nothing

[Anonymous No.10272096]

>>10271095
>jews are known to have a high IQ
>IQ is pseudo science
>jews are pseudo intelligent

hue hue hue

[Anonymous No.10272100]

>>10272037
Nah, IQ is pseudo-science, he cant be better than a psychologist. All the soft science rednecks are know equal to hard science chads :)

[Anonymous No.10272107]

>>10271095
>I have here no psychological references for backup: simply, the field is bust. So far ~ 50% of the research does not replicate, and papers that do have weaker effect. Not counting the poor transfer to reality (psychological papers are ludic).
Based and redpilled
However he does make a lot of strong assumptions, like you don't need X do "well" in society but Y.

[Anonymous No.10272143]

>>10271155
>You know that one YouTube "/pol/tard", who is one of their alt-right science man said that he found Talebs critique fair?

Not him but he probably found it "fair" because he believes in his mind that it doesn't invalidate his view point of low IQ populations. When in truth Taleb's argument is about highlighting the nonsensical path "Intelligence assessments" such as IQ has taken from it's original practical origins. Remember the original creator of the IQ test Alfred Binet built it for grade school assessments on young children to identify learning disabilities. Which Taleb states is exactly what the test is good for.

Only when american pro-eugenists who had no experience in the field or subject matter took the test to apply it to adults, various populations and life in general did the IQ test turn into it's nonsensical form. Honestly the IQ debate needs to benched altogether due to retards on both sides of the matter missing the basic conclusion of it being a test for fucking kids and mental disabilities.

How people got to such a point where they willingly ignored the original intent of Alfred Binet and what IQ was initially designed for is beyond me. But it does show how absurd we can be as society when we take a tool meant for school children and turn it into a sociopolitical battlefield.

[Anonymous No.10272159]

>>10272100
>know
>soft science rednecks
>implying rednecks are out there studying gender roles in sociology
Jesus christ

[Anonymous No.10272170]

Individual IQ isn't pseudoscience. Population IQ absolutely is.

[Anonymous No.10272173]

>>10272107
>expecting more than that much to replicate
someones spent too long in an idealized subject
iq replicates better than any other psychological phenomenon, even if its replicability isnt as high as physics, all that matters is its got high replicability compared to anything else in its own subject
your expectations arent fit for the subject at hand

[Anonymous No.10272176]

IQ is literally only pattern recognition. And it's only useful when something doesn't deviate from a pattern. It can also hamstring if you're stuck looking for patterns where there are none.

Measuring innovation or "the ability to pull ideas out of your ass" would be a better metric for success, which some may confuse IQ as an indicator of. However, no such metric exists yet.

Pseudoscience? Nah. It's repeatable and the methodology is sound. End all be all? Hell no. Put a high IQ in a room where social cohesion is necessary, like team sports or working with people from different backgrounds and watch the benefits of only IQ fly out the window (please don't confuse this as mutually nonexclusive). This negative correlation may be used to prove IQ as a metric is real but it's only one metric in a handbag of others that define the "high score" of human competency.

EQ on the other hand is hard fact and strictly human.

[Anonymous No.10272183]

>>10272170
the opposite is true

[Anonymous No.10272184]

>>10271095
"The 2008 depression was a Black Swan that 0 people could have predicted" - Dumb Motherfucker Taleb

[Anonymous No.10272201]

>>10271095
Redpill:If blacks didnt exist there would be no debate against IQ right now. The only reason IQ is not taken seriously is because it would confirm to the human race that blacks are backwards stupid fucks who shouldnt be allowed in any non black civilizations EVEN IF THEY ARE SMART because their very genes are ancient and worthless.

[Anonymous No.10272218]

>>10272201
>Redpill:If blacks didnt exist there would be no debate against IQ right now.
>proceeds to ignore the core fact that the foundation for IQ was designed for grade school children and was never built for adults

Real Redpill: Take your shitty bait post and fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10272228]

Juden Peterstein BTFO'd

[Anonymous No.10272232]

>>10272218
>How dare you not think blacks are equal to us!
I dont care about racial supremacy, I care about these feral savages being allowed in our schools even though they do far far far worse than the actual white idiots in high schools in academic merit proving they are utterfly inferior to us. If we cannot educate them then we have no use for them, they should be removed from our society all blacks do is cause chaos and human suffering MOSTLY TO THEIR OWN KIND oh the fucking irony of them calling us evil racist crackers when these beast destroy their own on a regular basis.

[Anonymous No.10272255]

>>10272232

>having poor reading comprehension

Again, take your shitty bait post and fuck off.

[Anonymous No.10272262]

>>10272143
then what does raven matrix test for. learning disabilities? or problem/pattern solving?

[Anonymous No.10272268]

>>10271095
Wow, I've never seen a more terribly written and inflammatory article. Is this supposed to be persuasive in any way?
What a hack.

[Anonymous No.10272322]

>>10272268
t. IYI Soviet-Harvard Fragilista

[Anonymous No.10272336]

If IQ is a lie then why do the military not employ people under and IQ of 80?

[Anonymous No.10272343]

>>10272322
I'm genuinely serious; what self-respecting professional trying to convince anybody actually relevant to what he's discussing writes like that?
It's worse than pop-sci tier.
Is he some /sci/ meme I'm not aware of?

[Anonymous No.10272348]

>>10272336
It works up to 100 basically. Read the article.

[Anonymous No.10272349]

>>10271095
kek, even stefanstein (((molyberg))) called him out on his bullshit, that's how stupid that article was
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCI0luCwM_Q

[Anonymous No.10272356]

>>10272343
He is a /lit/ meme.

[Anonymous No.10272362]

>>10272356
Oh, good, I was worried this thread was serious for a minute.

[Anonymous No.10272430]

>>10272362
It's semi-serious, as a statistician/probability master he knows his shit, IQ is garbage at when you come to 110, a study even posted that oxford students had an average of 125 IQ with the variance going as low as 110.

[Anonymous No.10272443]

>>10271095
>Nassim takes IQ test
>only 127
>IQ IS PSEUDOSCIENCE

[Anonymous No.10272616]

>>10272030
>>10272037
He's a charlatan and a crank.

[Anonymous No.10272619]

>>10271095
Reminder that Taleb doesn't know what he's talking about:

>Psychometricians generally regard IQ tests as having high statistical reliability.[9][56] A high reliability implies that – although test-takers may have varying scores when taking the same test on differing occasions, and although they may have varying scores when taking different IQ tests at the same age – the scores generally agree with one another and across time.

>Clinical psychologists generally regard IQ scores as having sufficient statistical validity for many clinical purposes.[22][57][58] In a survey of 661 randomly sampled psychologists and educational researchers, published in 1988, Mark Snyderman and Stanley Rothman reported a general consensus supporting the validity of IQ testing. "On the whole, scholars with any expertise in the area of intelligence and intelligence testing (defined very broadly) share a common view of the most important components of intelligence, and are convinced that it can be measured with some degree of accuracy." Almost all respondents picked out abstract reasoning, ability to solve problems and ability to acquire knowledge as the most important elements.[59]

[Anonymous No.10272622]

>>10272348
>It works up to 100 basically. Read the article.
Except that's a lie Taleb pulled out of his ass with no citation.

[Anonymous No.10272626]

>>10271095
Mods are asleep. Post your IQ power levels!

[Anonymous No.10272631]

>>10272443
Yeah, this is probably what happened. Taleb is kind of a pseud and not that smart.

[Anonymous No.10272636]

>>10272622
>>10272430
Statistically it's right. It is not reliable above 100.
>>10272631
>>10272443
>hurr he's dum so he's wrong
I'm not even defending the faggot, his writing is shit.

[Anonymous No.10272651]

Brainlet here. Can someone explain what fat tails and second order effects are

[Anonymous No.10272730]

>>10272430
Yeah and eminent scientists have an average IQ of 155-160. Check and mate.

[Anonymous No.10272759]

If Taleb is so smart, what happened to his hedge fund? Oh, wait, looks like his groundbreaking theories about risk and uncertainty didn't really help its performance.

[Anonymous No.10272768]

>>10272030
retarded parrot
>>10272037
stats isn’t math, and mathematicians have nothing to say about iq.

[Anonymous No.10272774]

>>10271095
>The argument that “some races are better at running” hence [some inference about the brain] is stale: mental capacity is much more dimensional and not defined in the same way running 100 m dash is.

>If you looked at Northern Europe from Ancient Babylon/Ancient Med/Egypt, you would have written the inhabitants off... Then look at what happened after 1600. Be careful when you discuss populations.

This guy is so fucking insecure about his race it's not even funny, holy shit lmao

[El Arcón No.10272812]

>>10272651

[Anonymous No.10272911]

Thats BS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h02w5E7FGlY

[Anonymous No.10273166]

>>10271103
post/save this as well to counter /pol/ tards.

http://www.stat.columbia.edu/~gelman/stuff_for_blog/flynn.pdf

[Anonymous No.10273293]

don't worry bros based stefan molyneux just destroyed this retard:
https://youtu.be/nCI0luCwM_Q

[Anonymous No.10273423]

>>10273166
thanks! most appreciated.

[Anonymous No.10273445]

>>10272812
It's back

[Anonymous No.10273446]

>>10272348
>it works up to 100
>average for american blacks is 85
>average for african blacks is 70
how does this BTFO eugenicists at all?

[Anonymous No.10273461]

>>10273423
btw, since the article is long, it basically says that IQ has been changing over time (we are smarter now than we were in the past).
Much of that change is due to environmental factors.
The fact that certain groups of people (whites vs blacks) get access to certain resources which has benefited them, that other groups historically have not had access to, has contributed to this disparity between IQ.
So we need to work on fixing that disparity by granting more access to resources that certain groups have not had access to.
Basically it's an argument similar to heritable wealth, and how it muddies the system of meritocracy - if you're dad was from harvard, chances are you'll go to an ivy league school too. It's also an argument for equal opportunity.

[Anonymous No.10273500]

>>10272336

Because the military bases their entire process on fixed standards. It is the reason why they want high school grads at bare minimum. It is the reason why they have weight maximums for each branch. It is the reason why their excercise regimen is designed for x amount of weeks. It has less to do with IQ and more to with large variation costing more money to handle. You find a standard that's reasonable and stick to it.

The military has trained capable foreign soldiers in local villages and tribes with lower IQs for years.

Also the ASVAB is modeled more under "g" models than Raven testing models.

[Anonymous No.10273515]

>>10272443
>only 127
>only

[Anonymous No.10273729]

>>10272622
see
>>10271981

[Anonymous No.10273869]

>>10273461
Japan has almost no natural resources and buttfuck almost every other race in achievements.
Btw wellfaring massively large human groups in order to "compensate" their lack of initial wealth (real or perceived) is the best way to make their performance plummet down.
What people need is working habits in a working culture.

[Anonymous No.10274659]

>>10271103
>whether Taleb is right or wrong doesn't matter. Would get those newfags and poltards to shut the fuck up a bit.
ladies and gentlemen, behold the peak performance of intellectual dishonesty.

[Anonymous No.10274824]

>>10272143
>Which Taleb states is exactly what the test is good for.
The test is also good for evaluating success in an army, LEO or intelligence agency career; it is also useful in evaluating potential for success in academics (SAT/ACT).

[Anonymous No.10274831]

>>10272636
>Statistically it's right. It is not reliable above 100.
What "statistics" are you quoting? FYI: STEM-graduates at highly ranked US universities have much higher IQs (median somewhere in the 120s) than people studying social sciences (median somewhere between 100-110). In other words: the more abstraction any given degree requires, the fewer brainlets (i.e. "average" people) it houses.

[Anonymous No.10274835]

>>10273461
>Basically it's an argument similar to heritable wealth, and how it muddies the system of meritocracy - if you're dad was from harvard, chances are you'll go to an ivy league school too.
Intelligence is highly heritable, you fucking imbecile. Legacy admissions are by-and-large admitted on a meritocratic basis.
>It's also an argument for equal opportunity.
Equal opportunity (i.e. the scrapping of affirmative action) results in top universities populated exclusively by asians, jews and caucasians.

[Anonymous No.10274838]

>>10273515
anything below 3+ SD’s means no real contributions to your field, below 2 SD’s means no doctorate and not suited for research, below 1 SD means brainlet drone

[Anonymous No.10274847]

>>10273500
>It has less to do with IQ and more to with large variation costing more money to handle.
It has everything to do with IQ; more specifically, the military does not recruit people with an IQ (as approximated by their ASVAB-score) under 80, due to Vietnam-era empirical evidence pointing towards the notion that such dim-witted people are unable to follow basic instructions, navigate using a map and compass, or think abstractly to the degree required of a soldier.

[Anonymous No.10274894]

>>10274838
I just want money what SD is needed for making a successful 1+million dollar business

[Anonymous No.10274922]

>>10274847
>Vietnam-era empirical evidence

This was known well before Vietnam. During Vietnam, McNamara and others pushed to reduce the limit, which was done and with disastrous consequences.

They also pushed or people with mental disorders and criminal histories to be let in, with similarly disastrous results.

Here is a great book about it. Lots of insights into those times too.

"McNamara's Folly: The Use of Low-IQ Troops in the Vietnam War"
by Hamilton Gregory

[Anonymous No.10274955]

>>10272651
Fait tails: random variables sometimes take extreme values. A fat tailed distribution is when the extreme values tend to be really really extreme, orders of magnitude beyond the mean. As if most people had normal intelligence and sometimes you got marvel-level supergeniuses who can travel in time and manipulate objects with their minds. Obviously intelligence is not fat-tailed, Taleb has no clue.

Second order effects: When there is not a simple linear relationship between intelligence and the measure of intelligence, so the graph linking the two would not be a line but a curve. It's true that IQ is not a linear measure of intelligence, but it is not at all like the linear-then-flat curve he shows in his article.

[Anonymous No.10274981]

> People start noting racial IQ differences
> IQ now suddenly bad
Hmmmmmmmmmm

[Anonymous No.10274988]

>>10272170
Literally a Planck-scale-brain take

[Anonymous No.10274999]

>>10272626
Fuck I had that game as a kid and have it in a box 4 feet away from me

[Anonymous No.10275037]

>>10272730
evidence of this statistic? Almost no scientist takes the official test since their academic achievement is what get them the job in the first place

[Anonymous No.10275076]

>>10272201
I agree

[Anonymous No.10275385]

>>10271095
This is all well and good, but do we measure intelligence now, though?
The intellectual capacity differences between people are way too clearly present so you can't really discard the concept in full.

[Anonymous No.10275391]

>>10271981
>performance levels off at ~120-130
Interesting...

[Anonymous No.10275531]

>>10271095
My country (Perù) has few or maybe one genius while your countries have tens of thousands, if you are mentioning statistics you know the answer.
A race is influenced by it`s environment and a lot of people ate this: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378874108001888
Lots of peruvians suffered from anemia and others barely ate meat.

[Anonymous No.10275576]

>>10271103
IQ being a fallacy just means the jews are liars. Races being different in levels of intelligence is visible fact whose evidence is cemented by historical record. Look at your keyboard and look foe the 'R' key. Click on your browser bar and enter 'R'. Your most visited site should pop up. Click it and go back to r- edit.

[Anonymous No.10275579]

>>10275391
At that point its the kids who practicr actual test taking and have parents making them do mock IQ tests and SATs vs. The naturals.

[Anonymous No.10275589]

>>10274981
>suddenly

[Anonymous No.10275633]

>Admits that IQ matters below 100
>Doesn't like that it's being used to critique the practice of importing hordes of 80IQ orcs

[Anonymous No.10275646]

>>10274824

>Success in the army

Stop, the ASVAB is about assessing competecy in various subjects and notating which subjects the military can stick you in for 4 years without fucking up. It isn't about success, it's about finding out the type of cog you are in their machine.

You can ultimately find success in any subject they deem you competent in and the system is literally built for you to find that success (assuming you don't die or get permanently maimed) because new recruits eventually have to replace you.

[Anonymous No.10276041]

IQ is important only for bureaucrats, you need skin in the game.

[Anonymous No.10277117]

>>10274835
>Intelligence is highly heritable, you fucking imbecile. Legacy admissions are by-and-large admitted on a meritocratic basis.
Look, kiddo! You're really dumb. Do you even understand what I just said?
Meritocracy is distorted BECAUSE of heritability. People DON'T get to where they are simply on their own merit - they get a tremendous amount of help from others. Me going, "Lawl ecks dee just get good, buddy!" When my dad went to harvard, and I just magically got in too! So I TOTALLY got in harvard on my own merit with NO help at all!

So the reason why there is a disparity is because of the immense amount of exclusive help people get from others, after taking a gigantic dump on, and abandoning, another entire other group of people.
IF we want to see these numbers increase, you have to give equal opportunity to those who got diarrhea dumped on.
"Pull yourself up on your bootstraps, boyo!" Doesn't fucking work you goddamn mongoloid.

[Anonymous No.10277526]

>>10271095
Nassim is getting BTFO so hard for this IQ denialism.

Which I'm glad. Every time an IQ denier anti-/pol/ shithead tries to attack it, the validity of it increases and the IQ deniers learns that he is being rightfully shamed for denying science.

[Anonymous No.10277540]

>>10272143
>But it does show how absurd we can be as society when we take a tool meant for school children and turn it into a sociopolitical battlefield.

Because leftists shithead who deny IQ and the role of genetics, have also gone out of their way to ignore what IQ science is saying about IQ in the very field it was designed for (identifying students who are genius/slow learners). Education has the most neurotic form of gene/IQ/intelligence denial.

Gee, I wonder why it became a sociopolitical battlefied, because of the leftist religious cult you dumbass.

Oh, and maybe the reason why IQ has evolved out of its original role is because of how useful it inherently is, and because of the g-construct.

>>10272170
>Individual IQ isn't pseudoscience. Population IQ absolutely is.

I mean, IQ deniers should be fucking jailed at this point. IQ deniers say some stupid shit but this is the dumbest thing I read here. IQ would literally be useless if only one person ever took an IQ test.

[Anonymous No.10277545]

>>10273166
Daily reminder that the Flynn effect has ended (because IQ is heritable so why would it rise infinitely), and that there is a reverse Flynn dysgenic effect going on (which Flynn himself acknowledges), and Flynn is also a /pol/tard by your description, because he is open to heritable explanation for racial IQ differences.

[Anonymous No.10277570]

>>10277526
>Nassim is getting BTFO so hard for this IQ denialism.
Where?