CS vs. Engineering

[Anonymous No.10268663]

Hey /sci/, I'm 18 and trying to decide which of these two options to major in.

I'm leaning towards CS but I'm concerned that the jobs will be outsourced to pajeets in India and my degree will be worthless by the time I graduate in 4 years. It's apparently much harder to outsource engineering jobs because they need to be accredited in America.

So which of these two fields have better future career prospects and what should I major in?

[Anonymous No.10268673]

>>10268663
Engineering. CS is the easiest field to self learn.

[Anonymous No.10268676]

>>10268673
>CS is the easiest field to self learn

This.

[Anonymous No.10268686]

>It's apparently much harder to outsource engineering jobs
This is true, but it isn't much of a comfort. You need to be trained on proper projects to become an engineer, which is not so easy as there are fewer places to work a more competition for entry level jobs. Also, as a side point, Engineering isn't some 'general' field of study. You will need to specialise early and if there isn't work, then you'll need to do something more general to make yourself more appealing employers outside of engineering companies.

CS is more open ended in that there are plenty of different pathways out, but as you rightly stated, outsourcing is an issue and it will only become worse IMO.

However, you don't need to think so much about this. Most colleges allow you to do more than one degree at a time, so you can get the best of both by mixing a science and engineering program.

My advice is to not look at the job market, but to follow your actual talents and abilities. You can't predict the job market in 4 years, but you can predict what you will or won't be able to do based on your talents already.

There will always be a position for someone who is 'good' at something regardless of the economy or employment market. So, don't focus on the end result, focus on what you really want to study as you'll do far better because you can relate to what you are studying rather than trying to imagine a use somewhere in the future.

[Anonymous No.10268688]

>>10268663
>>10268673
>>10268676
These are both memes.
Engineers take the exact same intro to CS classes as compsci students.
The only difference is you then do a dozen or so courses designing shit in Verilog, using a formal prover, and extracting assembly out of it.
If you really like to design hardware you should take electrical eng otherwise do something else.

[Anonymous No.10268691]

>>10268688
>Engineers take the exact same intro to CS classes as compsci students.

CS majors take Java, Engineers take Matlab, EE/CpE majors take C or C++.

[Tuba Jam No.10268695]

>>10268663
CS is easy to self learn, but the odds are you aren't a /sci/ super-mega-genius. Declare an engineering major, but if you can't do leetcode easy problems (I'm assuming you only care about CS for the software engineering bucks, because if you actually want to go into research/deep learning/NNs/biological/quantum
computing [which coincidentally won't be outsourced to India] you need to major and do grad-level courses, get relationships with professors, etc as fast as possible) at the end of your first year you should seriously consider changing your major to CS. Seriously, engineering is a huuge time sink. Which type of uni are you in? Small liberal arts or big state school, or something in between?

[Anonymous No.10268697]

>>10268686
Thanks for the input. I'm more Interested in CS than Engineering desu but the lack of jobs in the future due to outsourcing is very concerning. CS can be self taught and requires no accreditation, some pajeet can self teach using CodeAcademy and do the same work I will for 1/10th the salary.

[Anonymous No.10268708]

>>10268697
Read what >>10268695 said. If you want to get into webdev or fullstack/enterprise development, either do software engineering or teach yourself and save money.

If you are actually interested in real CS, no pajeet who learned Java online will take your job, which doesn't mean it will be particularly easy to get a job, but you'll have real competition from qualified scientists.

[Anonymous No.10268712]

>>10268691
Look at Cornell, CMU, MIT, ect. Same courses, everything is the same until 3rd year when you start specializing in hardware/network design and CS students start specializing in whatever. The only difference is eng have a broader science requirement they have to satisfy so have less electives, more physics. This means it's a more rigorous curriculum in the beginning, as you can't slack off with electives in bike shed coloring and are hammered with Physics and Calc homework for a year.

[Anonymous No.10268713]

>>10268708
>either do software engineering or teach yourself and save money.

I have a lot of scholarship money and my parents are paying for the remainder so money isn't really an issue. So do you think I should just get a CS degree then?

[Anonymous No.10268717]

>>10268663
just do what you want. if you are retarded CS is a guaranteed job

[Anonymous No.10268718]

>>10268697
A basic undergrad in anything can be self taught. Plus you seem to be only interested in jobs and money, so just go to a tradeschool and learn 'c++ vidjya gayman diploma" you're clearly not even remotely /sci/

[Anonymous No.10268720]

>>10268717
arent retarded

[Anonymous No.10268738]

>>10268718
A pajeet can't self-teach accounting, or pharmacy, or engineering, or medicine, or law, then come to America and work for a fraction of your salary because these jobs require some form of accreditation. If you've ever spoken to a pajeet taxi driver many of them were former professionals in India with engineering degrees but they couldn't use their degrees in America so they are forced to do menial labor.

[Anonymous No.10268740]

>>10268713
If its virtually "free" do whatever you want, but as I mentioned before you will suffer less if you study something more appropriate to what you want to work in.
Are you interested in working in a scientific field of computing? Or just being a regular developer of applications?

[Anonymous No.10268754]

>>10268740
I want to become a regular developer.

[Anonymous No.10268758]

>>10268754
Any degree is a waste of time then, just go to trade school

[Anonymous No.10268760]

>>10268738
You're obsessed with industry. This is /sci/, we are obsessed with science. You clearly just want to go wagecuck somewhere and never do any research.

Real computer science, you don't program anything. You study the theory of computation and write abstract stuff on a blackboard. Engineering you build physical things by taking the theory and applying it, like applying machine learning to ripple-carry adders or finding K-nearest neighbors. Neither of those is what you want, since you are solely focused on wagecucking what you want is 2yr tradeschool for webdev or video games. Google 'lambda school' and thank me later. https://lambdaschool.com/

[Anonymous No.10268763]

>>10268663
Engineering, but you'll want to get some internships and network a lot while you're in school.

[Anonymous No.10268770]

>>10268754
Personally, If you absolutely want a college degree, I would do Software Engineering or similar, unless you are too sure you have no problem at all with the math, you'll still have Calculus and Algebra in engineering, probably only an intro to mechanical physics and that's it, but you will be free of more advanced math that is in some CS programs.

[Tuba Jam No.10268771]

>>10268713
yeah pretty much. Have fun and make connections with professors while there. Remember: the onus is almost always on you to find out what the market needs and self learn it. Take the bare minimum credits needed for graduation (unless you can get a grad level course, individual study, or a course with a professor you would like to know better) and take fun, challenging electives in other subjects. Get as much AP credit as you can by self studying (you don't need to actually take a course). If you can't, do the clep and take community college classes which require it. As an example, my local CC takes clep as a prereq for calc 3 even though the CLEP only really requires clac 1 knowledge.

P.S. the programming [even high quality software engineering] market will quickly become rebalanced with an influx of new talent as is inevitable for an open market. If you want to stay relevant, do really good research in undergrad with the best professors you can and use it to get into a masters/PhD at a top university and study biocomputing, quantum computing, bioinformatics, AI, computer vision, etc. or if you're really smart do quant finance.

Iff you really just want money, just go into medicine, make your own practice, and spend the rest of your life living like a king in cheap 3rd world countries.

[Anonymous No.10268774]

>>10268770
This is a meme too. Even 'software engineering' track, you're going to be formally proving program specifications, and studying differential privacy, control flow graphs, satisfiability, ect. Nobody who wants to just be a developer should be doing an undergrad for anything, they should just let industry teach them like how you become a plumber. University only if you're really interested in the theory of something and want to pursue it in graduate school.

[Anonymous No.10268792]

>>10268760
In fact here is your entire curriculum:
>Getting a job
https://lambdaschool.com/
- cost $0.00 (they shave your paycheck for X months)
Work there for 3 years.
>Calculus book
Get a rigorous calc book with proofs, and do all the exercises while you program bullshit.
- cost $20 used book or 'International edition' like Apostol's Calc I
>The Art of Computer Programming
This will probably take you 4-6 years to complete depending on effort. This will be your supplementary comp sci education you never had.
- cost $150 or so for the first 4 volumes.

So total cost: about $200 and you get a F/T job, and (eventually) a compsci degree equivalence out of it if you actually do the exercises.

[Anonymous No.10268795]

>>10268774
I completely agree, that's why I said "If you absolutely want a college degree", I think it is less retarded to do SE.
But in some countries you need some sort of certification to get the first job at least, perhaps a code bootcamp, or a cert, or a technician's degree (I have the last) that proves you know something at least. Obviously having contacts can substitute any paper.

[Anonymous No.10268809]

>>10268754
>I just want to be a code monkey
kys. You're literally the cancer that killed off cs as a discipline

[Anonymous No.10268815]

>>10268760
>>10268792
>Google 'lambda school' and thank me later. https://lambdaschool.com/

I looked it up and a lot of people are saying it's a scam.

[Anonymous No.10268819]

>>10268691
what?

you believe that CS majors only learn java?

[Anonymous No.10268829]

>>10268815
>a scam
it's free
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18174664

The idea is you self teach yourself on the side, and are basically just using them for 'networking' so your resume isn't dropped by HR filters immediately. Then they take a percentage of your wage as payment, but only if you actually get a job. Lot's of these kinds of outfits exist in Oil and Gas industry too, pay nothing, they teach you basics of drilling floor shit and then if you get a job on a crew and a contract they ask for X percentage over X years as payback. Very common in tradeschool industries and programming is just another trade like plumber, deck builder, car detailer.

[Anonymous No.10268842]

>>10268829
oops this is the full link/discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18174639

you can self teach yourself 'development' but nobody will hire you, unless you put in at least a year of unpaid PRs and you come recommended, so normally what people do is start at the bottom doing some turbo wagecucking 'support' bullshit then weasel their way into development from there internally. These new tradeschools solve this problem by getting you wagecucking immediately afterwards

[Anonymous No.10268857]

What's the difference between a computer scientist and a code monkey?

[Anonymous No.10268867]

>>10268857
The computer scientist is still in uni with delusions of grandeur.

[Anonymous No.10269855]

>>10268857
A Code monkey is a coder from whom zero creativity is required. Such coder would do repetitive, boring, often tedious tasks, like clone form and change one filed etc. What you call "real programmer", would be a person, who actually participates in designing logic of the application, and actually uses creativity do to the job.

[Anonymous No.10270153]

>>10268663
I strongly suggest you choose your entire career based around epic /sci/ memes!

[Anonymous No.10270156]

>>10268867
The irony is that you haven't graduated yet, otherwise you would realize how shitty engineering in the workplace actually is.

t. engineer

[Anonymous No.10270168]

>>10268663
Hmmm let's see:
A real degree that won't be obsolete in five years.
Or CS.

I guess if you failed at engineering you could drop to CS.

[Anonymous No.10270267]

>>10268663
the market favors CS by a long shot. Engineering is much more competitive. for example, there are only 280,000 mech. eng. jobs in the US and those spots are already filled. 40% of mech engineers have a higher degree than a bachelor's so you have to keep that in mind when applying for jobs.

Software dev can be outsourced but companies are learning the hard way that this is ultimately bad for business because they fuck everything up and then they have to re-hire a white guy to fix everything that was fucked.

at the end of the day, either major is a solid choice and you can't really go wrong with either one. Just do what you're better at and more interested in.