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/sci/ - Science & Math

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10256400 No.10256400 [Reply] [Original]

Ok so if energy actually can come from nothing then is the first law of thermodynamics wrong?

>> No.10256409

>>10256400
shit u just wonthe game

science confirmed retarded

>> No.10256414

>>10256409
Im looking for a real answer not meme bullshit.

>> No.10256427

>>10256414
> if energy actually can come from nothing
It can't, why do you imagine otherwise?

>> No.10256437

>>10256427
The energy from which the big bang occurred have to have originated from somewhere.

>> No.10256442

>>10256437
Pop quiz: What is the total energy of the Universe. I'll give you a clue: It's zero. No energy was created at the big bang.

>> No.10256448

>>10256442
/thread, unironically

>> No.10256449

>>10256442
I never said there was, but from where did the energy of the singularity originate?

>> No.10256451

>>10256449
What energy?

>> No.10256453

>>10256451
the energy of the singularity. where did it originate?

>> No.10256454

>>10256453
See >>10256442

>> No.10256457

>>10256454
bullshit. are you saying that the energy has always existed?

>> No.10256458

>>10256457
Yes, the zero energy involved has always existed.

>> No.10256472

>>10256457
Since “always” means for all time, and time began at the Big Bang, yes, energy and matter has always been here.

>> No.10256480

OK, so how do quantum fluctuations factor into all of this? Please forgive me for I am a layman.

>> No.10256487

>>10256400
Anything concerning the time before the big bang is completely beyond our reach. No one here or anywhere will give you any reasonable answer that isn't wishful thinking.

Terence McKenna said it the best. “Modern science is based on the principle: ‘Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest.’ The one free miracle is the appearance of all the mass and energy in the universe and all the laws that govern it in a single instant from nothing.”

We like to think that humanity has gotten reality figured out and only a few blindspot are missing that will be filled sooner or later. But we forget we haven't been around here that long and if we look at our history we always thought we had the reality figured out and we were always wrong.

>> No.10256491

>>10256487
thats not satisfying. I WANT TO KNOW

>> No.10256511

>>10256487
“Nothing” existed nowhere and never. It’s not a coherent concept and can’t exist.

>> No.10256517

>>10256511
Prove it

>> No.10256523

>>10256457
He's saying that the expansion of space is a "negative energy" that equals the "positive energy" of matter and energy. Or sonething like that.

[Math]-1 + 1 = 0[/math]

So you don't need any energy to create a big bang. Just like you don't need any energy to create a particle-antiparticle pair

>> No.10256525

>>10256517
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation

>> No.10256550

>>10256409
>>10256427
>>10256442
>>10256448
>>10256487
>>10256511
>>10256523
>t. brainlets

>>10256400
The laws of thermodynamics are STATISTICAL laws. That means you expect them to come true over any macroscopic time scale because the probabilities work in the law's favour. That doesn't mean they are certain though. There is NOTHING preventing all the air in your room from suddenly collecting in one side, then rushing back out and crushing you - well, except for the sheer improbability of that scenario. And yes, the air is doing work in this thought experiment, literally creating energy out of nowhere.

>> No.10256552

>>10256550
>t. King Brainlet

>> No.10256593

>>10256525
No universe, no quantum fluctuations

>> No.10256601

>>10256593
The point is, there is no "nothing".

>> No.10256607

>>10256550
>There is NOTHING preventing all the air in your room from suddenly collecting in one side, then rushing back out and crushing you
The fact it isn't a closed system, for one.

>> No.10256621

>>10256487
>Terence McKenna said it the best. “Modern science is based on the principle: ‘Give us one free miracle and we’ll explain the rest.’
God of the gaps. Science has removed all the other miracles. The "before" question is just the next big hurdle.

>> No.10256628

>>10256621
That’s not even a hurdle, because.....there is no “before time”. This is it.

>> No.10256661

kek, this thread just shows the stupidity of the modern interpretation of thinking current theories of energy and matter make any sense

The reality is that nothing we know about current physics can explain the existence of energy and matter arising from nothing. Lawrence Krauss goes a long way to define nothing as something in order to give a speculative answer to something that would for sure make you the greatest physicist of all time if you could explain.

>>10256457
This question is good, and it does not have any answer by current physics. Quantum fluctuations are not an answer.

>> No.10256663
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10256663

>>10256442

>> No.10256675

>>10256550
>And yes, the air is doing work in this thought experiment, literally creating energy out of nowhere.
In this scenario, the air already has energy, and it would lose some energy while crushing you.

>> No.10256677

>>10256628
"Time" as we know it is just something within our universe.
We don't know what is outside our universe, there could be some other property that is functionally similar to "time" but absolutely foreign to us.

>> No.10256684
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10256684

>>10256442

t. Boltzmann brain

>> No.10256696

>>10256677
That’d by necessity be either outside our causality chain or part of it.

>> No.10256698

>>10256661
Matter and energy always existed. This has been answered.

>> No.10256703

>>10256698
No, you are using circular logic.

>> No.10256724

>>10256703
Nope. Time began 13.8 billion years ago. When it did, matter and energy was already here, so matter and energy always existed. Pretty simple.

>> No.10256737

>>10256724
You seem to know more about this then any physicist in history, is there any proof of this or are you just going to continue claiming this is fact and 'simple'?

>> No.10257426

>>10256724
>matter and energy existed without time
-_-

>> No.10257468

>>10256437
Fun fact: the big bang isnt a theory about the origin of the universe, it's about cosmic inflation.
Physics-as-we-understand it only lets you walk things back so far until you have to unify quantum mechanics and gravity and the math starts to break down.
Not many people deny that the universe once existed in an incredibly hot and dense state because the evidence is there. Its another thing to speculate meaningfully about what happened BEFORE that.

>> No.10257475
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10257475

>>10256487
Get a load of this guy.