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/sci/ - Science & Math

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10218524 No.10218524 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

How are we going to terraform Mars?

>> No.10218530

Build bigger and bigger domes until it’s an entire planetary dome. Absurdly easier to fill a dome than an entire atmosphere with gas.

>> No.10218532

This but we should just encase the entire planet in a giant bubble from the start, instead of bothering with preliminary domes

>> No.10218539

We won't
The iron forge of Mars will burn forever

>> No.10218553

Not practical. Most of the land area would have no one living there nor a workforce to maintain the dome. Best to start with a few habs and spread out from there as population and industrial demands grow. Make underground habitation or something, I don’t know.

>> No.10218559

I was just shitposting, if the atmosphere wouldn't gravitationally stick to the planet without a planetary bubble then obviously there's a big problem

>> No.10218665

Martian gravity isn’t the problem, Titan is much less massive than mars but has a denser atmosphere than we do. The problem is the magnetosphere is shit so solar wind will degrade it over time. Maybe we could fix it but that level of planetary engineering is for speculative sci-fi.

>> No.10218697

We won't.
The soil is toxic, the core is geologically dead, there is no magnetosphere so it cops the full solar wind, the atmosphere is pretty much a vacuum. It's colder than Antarctica. The gravity will cause health problems.

>> No.10218710

>What is robotics and genetic engineering

>> No.10218726

Nuclear detonations on the icecaps

>> No.10218729

how strong would the dome have to be before it dosen't collapse under it's own gravity

>> No.10218733

>atmosphere is near vacuum but it's cold
The first one cancels the second

>> No.10218736

The air inside will support it, you might need to beef it up so it doesn't pop

>> No.10218738
File: 306 KB, 2518x1024, isaacarthurchad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Bioforming > terraforming


>> No.10218749

It’d be easier to construct than an analogous structure on earth because Mars has less gravity. Keep it modular so that the odd meteorite doesn’t kill the entire colony, but it should be easily possible even with contemporary construction techniques. The thing that makes such a suggestion very difficult is transporting the construction materials to mars as well as some kind of entity to assemble it, human or robot, or locating the manufacturing facilities on mars itself. That’s why I’d rather dig.

>> No.10218795


I think we could partially terraform it, it wouldn't allow humans to live outside the domes but uit could give native Mars life a chance. or if there is no life on mars, transplanted human bacteria and plants.

Maybe in the far future we might be able to make Mars a 2nd natural home to humans, but Venus would more likely be first than mars would.

>> No.10218830

Why not live on Titan? Jupiter’s magnetosphere protects her moons.

>> No.10218846

Dump 10 tonnes of live tardigrades.
Wait 100,000,000 years.
Budding primordial ecosystem, still toxic to humans. Take the DNA from the ayys we created and splice with our own

>> No.10218960

I pretty much set the foundation for the jello baby meme. I don't consider Mars a long term home for anyone.

However I have to admit the necessity of establishing a large temporary settlement there. I'll save the explanations of why for another time.

So lets talk how to go about it...

Step one is to select a site. Somewhere close the the equator near one of the gravitational/ magnetic anomolies. For extra radiation protection and also because this is likely to be the site of a large metallic upwelling from the core which has now cooled.

You want a crater. Something maybe 500m accross. Then you want to dome it. You want the seal the edges with non-porous material, probably clay. This is to prevent catastrophic leakage of water and air.

The poison in the soil and water is an issue. Distillation won't remove it so we need carbon for this. Activated charcoal more precisely.

So now you have a domed crater you have a greenhouse. One you can pressurise. Temperature is the first hurdle to overcome before plants will grow and we have overcome it with the dome.

Now lets take care of the people. We need a circular tunnel bored into the rock surrounding the crater. A rail system needs to be added to this. Now we can attach a habitation module like a rail carriage. It swings around at high speed creating a moderate centrifugal force. Combined with existing gravity we can match 1g. For sleeping.

Soil can be cleaned of the toxins by baking it. Purifying the initial supply of water will be expensive but you can recycle it once it has been added to your cycle.

Now you want woody shrubs with fast growth in arid conditions to provide a source of carbon to begin cleaning more water.

It's highly likely that fertilisers will need to be imported for some time but Mars can export bulk quantities of construction materials into space in trade.

From here things gradually ramp up until you have an ecosystem in a bubble. Multiply this to provide additional habitat.

>> No.10218968

We ship all boomers on Earth to Mars

>> No.10218977

I agree, let's do it.

>> No.10218988

So now we have comfortable, happy colonists producing soil, activated charcoal and pure water. Lets build some fairly ordinary poly tunnels on the surrounding surface and begin crop production.

Congratulations our colony is now practically self sufficient.

Now it's time to begin the industrial revolution. We need calcium and charcoal so we can start producing large quantities of steel. The mining industry needs to begin followed by refineries.

But why are we mining Mars?

Well it's an unsuitable long term home for people so we need to start making something better for them. Enter our first supermassive space habitat, which by the way, doubles as a giant magnet to protect the martian atmosphere from the solar wind.

Industry has been pumping massive amounts of co2 into the atmosphere and things are strting to get warmer. The seasonal sublimation of co2 from the poles in no longer seasonal. It is now a permanent part of the atmosphere.

A little boost from CFCs and other warming chemicals and we have liquid surface water. It still needs to be cleaned of toxins so activated charcoal is key here.

Once you have cleaned large portions of the surface soil and water of poisons it's time to plant trees and grasses.

From here natural processes take over.

However I consider it unlikely that the martian surface will be terraformed. The whole place is just too valuable and a foundry and factory.

It's much more likely that we will make the surface of Mars more toxic not less so.

But the people in the habitat won't care because they will be experiencing the garden of eden. An utterly sublime, perfect environment.

>> No.10218991

How can we terraform Mars when we can't even terraform Earth? Sahara is still a desert, while areas that were previously not deserts are actively being desrtificated by human activity.

>> No.10218994

i prefer to pretend that he has an extremely obscure accent wather than a speech impediment.

>> No.10219000

Why should we terraform Earth?

The deserts are ecosystems in their own way. Highly valuable from a scientific perspective.

>> No.10219030
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Put a bunch of mirrors in orbit to heat it up.


Erect an artificial magnetic field.


Have apartments spinning on a circular maglev track for gravity.

>> No.10219062

this is the only way to do it. Terraforming was recently shown to be practically impossible
it will take a very long time to heat up mars this way

>> No.10219645
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>> No.10219673
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this is exactly what happened in Battle Angel Alita
"More than 80% of the surface is covered by a canopy of self-repairing nanomachines, which restricts space access. "

>> No.10219680

has anyone here read The Mars trilogy? (red mars, green mars, blue mars)

>> No.10219689

Nuclear weapons to melt polar caps and release more atmosphere which will result in warming and releasing more atmosphere from permafrost.
To retain this thickened atmosphere for several millions of years a space station generating magnetic field can be inserted between Mars and the Sun deflecting if not all the at least some of the erosive solar wind. Not required and may be left to the distant future.

If nuclear weapons are not available which is likely then solar reflectors may be utilized.

#1 issue is thin atmosphere. Solve that and the planet even with unbreathable air is essentially habitable even for individuals and small groups wanting to go their own way.

>> No.10219700

Why terraform mars when you can just build as many orbital habitats as we want.

>> No.10219715


>> No.10219718
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keep adding mass untill the gravity can support an atmosphere. scoop mass from other planets, moons, asteroids, etc

>> No.10219720

Not enough free mass in the solar system to do it unless you start crashing moons into Mars.

>> No.10219904
File: 92 KB, 1346x565, How to terraform Mars.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

We are not going to terraform Mars. Why isn't there a /popsci/ or /sci-fi/ board?

>> No.10220217

This tbqh. We may live there in the future, but terraforming it is just a reddit fantasy. And unless by some miracle we discover close-to-c technology we are sadly doomed to stay within the confines of our solar system.

>> No.10220468

We have the science and tech to get out now, without the need for C-scale speeds, but we just need to design, build, and debug it. Then it is just a matter of long ass traveling times. Getting people with money to actually do something is actually the most difficult part of the process.

>> No.10220583

Yeah. Investors are the actual problem. When you invest in something you normally want to see returns within your lifetime. Establishing a colony on an exoplanet around say alpha centauri would be fairly unlikely to achieve this, because the tech we have/are likely to develop would still take like 50 years to get there.

>> No.10220589

>sending humans outside the solar system
Retarded. No one is going to live on a ship for decades.

>> No.10220629

You are right, they die on the ship and their children/grand children arrive at the destination. A viable location might be several generations away.

>> No.10220631

>goal; breathable atmosphere and 1g gravity
Just because you think those might be requirements for people living there doesn't mean they actually are.

>> No.10220639
File: 2.34 MB, 2204x2300, Crazy Cambodia.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

There's also a dedicated campaign against him now too. It is coming from Cambodia and other such knock-off channels. Some of his videos gained like 8k-10k downvotes within a few hours across most of the videos in the same time frame.

>> No.10220642

>comes into a terraform thread to spout "facts" that have nothing at all to do with the thread subject.

Perhaps you belong somewhere else? Do you even know the goals of terraforming a planet?

>> No.10220674

Realistic terraforming goals would be making the environment less hostile for people with realistic technology and within realistic time frames. Retarded terraforming goals would be duplicating the Earth 1:1 using magic just to make a weak argument against the feasibility of terraforming.

Crashing moons, planets, stars, and so on strongly leans towards retarded.
You may freely dream of arcane powers as much as you want in your /x/ delusions, but again, do not think these things are in any way required for people to comfortably live on Mars or elsewhere beyond the Earth.

>> No.10220695
File: 1.19 MB, 1360x3472, 1490979759989.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Realistic terraforming

You are deluded. There is no such thing at all. It is pure science fiction. You do realize this >>10219904 image is pure satire right? As far as colonies on Mars? Shit dude, you are 200% delusional if you believe that will happen in any shape or form.

>> No.10220696

The problem is the gravity and lack of magnetic field that makes any long term terraforming impossible. I mean sure plants would love to grow in that low gravity but us animals we need strong gravity to not have fucked up skeletons.

>> No.10220699

Titan is even colder than Mars and its atmosphere is actually thick meaning the air will freeze you to death if you move through it unlike Mars where you have to touch the ground to lose any heat due to how nearly vacuum its atmosphere is.

>> No.10220702

Didn't one of those Japanese mangas explain the process already?

>> No.10220703

>let me just talk about shit I have no knowledge in
It's literally the opposite, you brainlet. Titan has thick atmosphere because it's cold as fuck. The magnetosphere is literally a non-issue on any reasonable timescale.

>> No.10220704

>lets terraform a planet
>even though we refuse to rollback carbon emissions on the planet we're already on which are making it into another Venus

>> No.10220721

Naysayers are by far the most consistently delusional bunch.
I'm quite optimistic about colonies now that at least two billionaires seem interested in space and the concept of people living beyond the earth.

>> No.10221022

I could see it being feasible in some special cases.
Some rocky planet that's not geologically dead is found around a nearby star in it's habitable zone and it's demonstrably sterile of native life. Establish domed research outposts.
Experiment on trying to induce abiogenesis in isolated areas since you have a natural laboratory.
Introduce photo and chemosynthetic life where applicable.
Let them go nuts and do what they did billions of years ago and change the atmosphere.
Instead of letting it find an equilibrium naturally introduce other canned life forms to help regulate, carefully layering in new trophic levels and creating simple food webs. Once you've got your slimy green oceans going you can spend your time carefully geoengineering outward from your original domed cities.
It would be a long term project, but if you found a potentially habitable world just over the horizon that you had an opportunity to turn into eden, why not?
I think what most people fail to realize is that earth's atmosphere doesn't just come from nowhere, its a byproduct of life itself. You don't breathe clean oxygen without trees, grass, and little green microbes in the ocean.

>> No.10221033

Colonies on Mars is ignorant and delusional. Space station colonies are more viable than that shit.

>> No.10221107

I think we should start by terraforming Earth. It would be good practice, is more practical and more possible.

>> No.10222607

Nuclear fusion and battery breakthroughs will make carbon emisions a moot point.

>> No.10222900

are you fucking stupid?

>> No.10222909

Is this accurate?

>> No.10222919

>Colonies on Mars is ignorant and delusional. Space station colonies are more viable than that shit.

Depends entirely on how resilient humans are to low gravity. If they can handle it, then Mars is much better than any space station. If not, then you need a rotating space station next to an asteroid or some other source of resources.

Nobody knows yet.

>> No.10222944

>"How are we going to terraform Mars?"

Quick answer: We're not.

>> No.10222950

This. Practice on our planet first, before we mess up another one.

>> No.10223038
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>space hippies

>> No.10223043

/sci/? more like /scifi/, heh.

>> No.10223053



Without magnetosphere you might as well just live underground for eternity and forget about any life forming on the surface. The core of Mars is dead... Olympus Mons is the proof of it. Reigniting the core to restore the magnetosphere is nothing short of pure science-fiction and anyone defending it should be told to return watching star wars.

>> No.10223085

this without magnets you'd literally day in hours from cosmic death rays

>> No.10223168


Wrong, my brainlet friends. The only thing magnetosphere does is protect the atmosphere from being stripped off by solar wind on geological timescales.

Atmosphere is what protects against radiation, and that is true on both Earth and Mars. The issue on Mars is that atmosphere is not thick enough to offer good protection against galactic cosmic rays, only solar flares.

>> No.10223195

>my brainlet friends.
> only thing magnetosphere does is protect the atmosphere
>stripped off by solar wind
>Atmosphere is what protects against radiation, and that is true on both Earth and Mars
>stripped off by solar wind

You can't even write a reply without contradicting your self.. get your facts straight you brainlet

>> No.10223198

This post is the epitome of the mars terraforming threads and is the number one reason why you should all be sent there to die.

>> No.10223220
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Why terraform it when you can just build underground structures or erect dome city style structures?

>> No.10223234

yeah thats why everybody talks about how important magnetic fields are right

>> No.10223245

Atmosphere is literally empty air you brainlet.

Tell us how exactly does that protect anything from radiation?

If that was true nuclear power plants blowing up wouldn't be an issue at all because there plenty of air around.

>> No.10223263


What about Venus? It has an atmosphere, all we need to do is develop a natural resistance to sulphuric acid

>> No.10223338

Because I really want to ski Mt. Olympus.
The whole thing has a shallower grade than a bunny slope but I bet you could really get going.

>> No.10223538

and resistance to pressures above 90 atm. and temperatures above 400 C. and day/night cycles almost 200 days long.

>> No.10223543

>build dome
>pollute dome irrepairably
>keep it as the low class slave dome, build new dome for patricians
>now also have a middling pleb dome
By the time Mars is terraformed, we're going to have a very complicated class system.

>> No.10223989
File: 323 KB, 1344x756, mars.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

1. Establish outpost.
2. Supply outpost with solar sail shipments.
3. Turn every solar sail into a solar reflector to heat planet.
4. Use solar sails to distant objects to redirect comets to burn up in Martian atmosphere to deposit volaties.
5. As martian industry grows, great supergreenhouse gas factories.

Done. Once you can walk around with nothing but a heavy jacket and an oxygen mask then it's terraformed enough, or as much as you are going to get it. Sure, you could introduce an oxygen atmosphere with photosynthetic life, but the oxygen would just get absorbed by the surface of Mars, undoing all your effort of creating a thick atmosphere.

If you DID create an oxygen atmosphere then eventually you could walk around in nothing but a heavy jacket and a CO2 scrubber. I don't know where you would get enough buffer gas to make Mars' atmosphere truly breathable.

>> No.10223998

Mt. Olympos would never have legit snow cover. It will never have a dense enough atmosphere for snow all the way to the summit... and I don't think it's possible to have slopes of dry ice that seamlessly transition into water ice.

>> No.10224005

Disregard magnetosphere.
Acquire ionosphere.

>> No.10224007

That sounds fucking awful. With a post-scarcity solar civilization, coaxing Mars into a living planet is precisely the sort of thing we would find enjoyable and uplifting. Mere concerns of "living space" is like how ancient people looked upon wilderness as ugly and useless, only fit for being turned into cropland.

>> No.10224010

>I don't know where you would get enough buffer gas to make Mars' atmosphere truly breathable.
Venus. Plenty of nitrogen in that fucked up atmosphere. Exporting it on a gigantic scale with mass drivers mounted on floating work plaforms is an ideal economic driver for Venus.

>> No.10224027

Sorry, but if I can't even imagine how it would be accomplished then I don't give it serious thought in the scenario. If you are building orbital rings around Venus then sure, anything is possible. But I don't think it's useful to talk about ubertech solutions before we've even sufficiently discussed existent tech solutions.

Acquiring that much buffer gas is orders of magnitude a greater feat than anything I mentioned. It's like comparing flight to spaceflight.

>> No.10224043

A station at Mars-Sun L1 with a massive magnetic field would do most of the work. Mars would be shielded and the atmosphere can build up naturally. Add in comets and ice meteors for more co2 and water.

You dont have to equal 1 earth atmosphere. Just enough pressure for unassisted breathing outside.

>> No.10224047

Who said anything about orbital rings? Those are an Isaac Arthur pipe-dream. Use automated platforms floating aerostatically in the atmosphere of Venus. Process the atmosphere, load the [math]N_{2}[/math] into simple shipping modules, then launch them roughly towards mars. They can steer themselves the rest of the way.
>It's like comparing flight to spaceflight
Yes, and that step took only about 60 years.

>> No.10224055

Methane and ice from jovian moons would be eaiser

Low enough gravity well for a skyhook or elevator.

>> No.10224095

Launching mass like that into orbit, let alone to Mars, requires absurd amounts off energy. Like I said, that's orders of magnitude a greater feat than anything I mentioned. I don't like mentioning such solutions in the same paragraph as simple solar mirrors the size of continents.

>> No.10224217

>yeah thats why everybody talks about how important magnetic fields are right

Not important for terraforming. Thicken Martian atmosphere, and you will solve the radiation issue, and while it will get stripped off this process will take millions of years so it is not relevant on human timescales.

>> No.10224223

we can't even go to the moon anymore lmao

>> No.10224244

The core of mars is cooling making the magnetic protection weaker correct? Would it be possible to drill into mars and nuke the core in order to "Reignite" it and return the magnetic protection?

>> No.10224250


We cannot possibly harness enough energy for that. We can give mars magnetic fields via a space station.

>> No.10224318


This post was made by Venus gang

>> No.10224320

Yeah this is a pretty good idea. Probably better than Venus. At any rate I insist that the scheme includes floating cities.

>> No.10224322

>What about Venus?
It sucks.

>> No.10224781
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>> No.10225807

Terra-forming Mars is a meme. Its a joke. No one with any relevant education takes it seriously and merely laugh at those who do.

The point is that even if you could concentrate all the resources of Humanity towards a project to live sustainability off planet it would still not be possible.

Even if it were possible then you would have reached the point where it has become possible to live sustainably on Earth. In which case it becomes economically pointless. Might as well just mine the asteroids for minerals.

Think of it like this: Why dont we terraform the north and south poles? Build big domes and grow veggies and stuff? Mine the rocks! Well, with enough effort we could, but it doesn't make much sense. Why dont we terraform the oceans? Build big domes and stuff and grow veggies under the water...mine the ocean floor!

>> No.10225954

Water is really heavy. It would be easier to build a dome city on Mars.

Expanding and living off planet is about acquiring resources and relieving population pressures on earth. Just as it was during the settlement of the New World.

Right now we're at the Christopher Columbus stage of space flight. We can just barely get people to Mars and set up camp.

>> No.10225955

>build station at L1 making a magnetic field
This shit was figured out ages ago

>> No.10225963
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>Hasn't even made Antarctica more hospitable with our already nice and thick atmosphere, or capable of changing the median temperature by a fraction of a degree

>Actually influencing a system several times larger and orders of magnitude more extreme

Humanity is not going to make it.

We're going to get squished by a space rock before there's any permanent settlement outside of Earth.

>> No.10225998
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>being this desperate for (You)s

>> No.10226043

Yes we are. Its not that difficult and in that time frame people could adapt, between that and habitatats/using mars natural resources(sub-surface water on Mars) we could probably have people there for science and recreation as well as a pit stop for further space exploration.
>>10220631 stop having a shitty attitude, exploring the galaxy etc will be fun

The gravity issue isn't so bad you could just have ppl stand in a centrefuge for like 20 mins a day

>> No.10226247

>Think of it like this: Why dont we terraform the north and south poles?
Because we would drown ourselves. Mars would be a testbed for climate engineering in a way that Earth could never be.

>Why dont we terraform the oceans? Build big domes and stuff and grow veggies under the water...mine the ocean floor!
Indeed. Why don't we?

Also tone down the condescension, ya dweeb.

>> No.10226250

give it a yeast infection

>> No.10226299

>messing up giant blocks of rock
mars is a blank slate, earth is at least valuable since it already had life on it

>> No.10226381
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1. Artificial magnetosphere at L1. A massive shield between mars and the sun to prevent the world from burning away.

2. Atmospheric bombardment. Asteroid hunter array to search, prepare, and deliver asteroids to martian atmosphere. This would induce an artificial late veneer, delivering the necessary materials to manifest an earth-like atmosphere.

>> No.10227180


Haha, way to prove you are a fucking idiot.

>> No.10227187


Lol lol lol. You are a fucking idiot too.

>> No.10228593

>2. Atmospheric bombardment. Asteroid hunter array to search, prepare, and deliver asteroids to martian atmosphere. This would induce an artificial late veneer, delivering the necessary materials to manifest an earth-like atmosphere.
It's not efficient enough. Sending remnants of mined out asteroids on collision course with Mars will be, though.

>> No.10228674

>this retarded argument again
Antartica already has life and a rich ecosystem, we cant just fuck arround with it like that.

>> No.10228679

Good posts

>> No.10228698

Mars might have that and it's right to fuck with it just to satisfy the egos of few rich white people who want to be the "first"?

>> No.10228712

As long as we are a market economy there is no reason to colonize the Moon or Mars. Its not worth doing so. There is nothing on those two bodies that isn't already easier to access on Earth.

>> No.10228720
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we shouldn't but we will

>> No.10228730

I liked that Chinese shadow puppet play

>> No.10228890

Venus is too hot. Surface temperature is over 800 degrees Fahrenheit

>> No.10228892

we can go at night with lots of bluepills

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