Proof that God doesn't exist

[Anonymous No.10107505]

Assume God exists. We shall give God the characteristics typically associated with the Judeo-Christian God, specifically that he is all-knowing. We shall prove that this God cannot exist. Consider the following program:

As input, you give the algorithm any program that can be run in a Turing machine.

Step 1: Ask God if it halts
Step 2: Return God's answer

Therefore if God exists, there exists an algorithm that solves the halting problem. It is a trivial exercise left to the reader to prove that no such program can exist, so we have arrived at a contradiction. Therefore, God does not exist.

Or, of course, if God exists then he doesn't know everything.

[Anonymous No.10107520]

you are creating a syntax to further your argument, but you have not proven that this syntax has any bearing on matters of god

Why should a God share the specific algorithmic syntax you thought of

[Anonymous No.10107523]

>>10107520
What do you mean? Given an arbitrary program, you would just need to tell God via prayer the specifications and pray for him to give you the answer. He would, as he is God, and that is the output.

And even then we are thinking abstractly so we don't need to lay down any program. Just ask yourself, can God solve the halting problem? If he can, he doesn't exist. If he can't, then he is not all powerful.

[Anonymous No.10107524]

>>10107505
>We shall give God the characteristics typically associated with the Judeo-Christian God
stopped reading there

[Anonymous No.10107527]

>>10107524
You should keep reading as I prove the Judeo-Christian God does not exist.

[Anonymous No.10107528]

>>10107527
>i can show a paradox in the syntax of language that theologians didn't notice or hadn't even developed in the language yet when they claimed god was all knowing

yeah good for you, but does a creator or higher intelligence exist

[Anonymous No.10107532]

>>10107528
>but does a creator or higher intelligence exist
Hey may or may not. But if he does exist, he is not all-powerful nor all-knowing.

This supports my personal theory that God only sends mathematicians to heaven to aide him in his research because not even he can know everything.

[Anonymous No.10107544]

>>10107523
You're not accounting for the most basic tenets of religion. You're simplifying to an absurd degree and then pretending programming has fuck all to do with anything, because thats something you think you understand

If you create your opponant's argument for them, of course you can disprove it. But that only shows how flawed the initial argument you made up on the spot it.

Unless you have any intention of addressing theories and arguments constructed by real people i have no reason to bother interacting with a sophomoric dunce like you

[Anonymous No.10107546]

>>10107544
[math] \textbf{Can God solve the halting problem?} [/math]

[Anonymous No.10107550]

>>10107532
Youre pretending like the theologians of the ancient world were studying gods actual characteristics and not just philosophizing about the nature of god. Straw manning god as all knowing completely misses the point of talking about god in the first place, you are only using philosophical speculation that was never proven in the first place. Also with as just as much quirkiness, I could make an argument that no human being can actually define the word "all-knowing" with meaningful metaphysical implications which would render your argument insufficient

[Anonymous No.10107551]

>>10107546
you've made up a problem that doesn't exist. you have yet to show that this is a real problem and not a meaningless string of words.

Can God solved the Jew problem? Can God solve the Diaper problem? Can God solve the Bogdanoff problem?

If this is some confusing allusion to the 'rock god cant lift' argument then just say so

[Anonymous No.10107553]

>>10107505
yikes! he thinks he is with the big boys now. ok let's look at this carefully. first of all, your assumption of god's nature is that of aquinas, which isn't necessarily the case for a god. either way, i wouldn't argue that the judeo-christian conception of god isn't necessarily unknowing. i generally also take issue with their conception of god's omniscience, though that is a different conversation.

anyways, this argument is still moronic. god is omniscient - all knowing. your assumptions rest on a gross misinterpretation of what knowledge is. you hide behind this with silly references to proofs in computability to try and make your argument look sophisticated. we don't need the halting problem as an example. let's simply take (A AND NOT A). according to your conception of omniscience, an omniscient being should know a value of A that would satisfy this expression. of course that is immediately contradictory. it can never work. here's the problem, and i will spell it out for you once: you can't know things that do not exist. knowledge is built off of justification, believe, and veracity. if there is no veracity, it simply isn't knowledge. it is amazing you'd attempt such a pretentious example without understanding basic epistemology. oh well, we can't all be born with an IQ above 150

[Anonymous No.10107555]

>>10107550
Well, most believers do in fact believe that God knows everything. Just ask them. I am proving their God does not exist. If you think that it is apparent that this God does not exist, but a God exists, then you agree with me.

>>10107551
The halting problem goes back to Turing. Just google it, it is a problem that no logical machine can solve. Is God a logical machine?

[Anonymous No.10107557]

>>10107505
Optimized.

[Anonymous No.10107561]

>>10107553
>let's simply take (A AND NOT A)

Nope, you are wrong. This is an actual contradiction. The halting problem is an actual problem and you can, in fact, come up with algorithms that can solve the halting problem for certain classes of algorithms. Asking if God can solve the halting problem for an arbitrary program is just like asking if God can add two arbitrary natural numbers.

[Anonymous No.10107562]

>>10107551
Optimized.

[Anonymous No.10107572]

>>10107505
>CS majors are this retarded
>atheists are this retarded

There's nothing illogical about a Turing machine that can solve halting problem with an oracle. And the same proof for Turing machines not being able to solve their halting problem instantly generalizes for the halting problem of turning machines with halting oracles deciding whether they (turning machines with halting oracles) will halt (since the halting oracle is only for turning machines without halting oracles). This then create a hierarchy of evermore powerful super Turing machines where the infinite number in this chain is capable of solving the arbitrary math problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_machine

[Anonymous No.10107573]

>>10107555
>yeah well most people!!!!

ok but theres literally infinite arguments for that. You could even abstract out the turing machine part and replace it for any unsolvable problem in logic.

depending on whether you more strongly hold the axiom of god knowing everything or the axiom imperative of the consensus on any given logical problem will determine your answer. You could still prove god is all knowing but the answer to the given logical problem is necessarily inarticulate

[Anonymous No.10107577]

>>10107555
>no logical machine can solve
>computers occupy a finite number of states
>current state determins future states
>let computer run some finite amount of time, if halts, halts. If not, loops.

>profit?
What you describe has nothing to do with anything fundamental. It is merely a property of logical systems that you can come up with paradoxes when you try to ask them questions about themselves. However a stronger logical system is capable of answering your question.

[Anonymous No.10107583]

>>10107572
You are missing the entire point of oracles by making that argument. Oracles are no more than a problem-solving heuristic in computer science. If you assume that God is a literal oracle that does not rely on logic, but on raw magical oracles, then you just increased the complexity of God by several orders of magnitude and it puts into question how an afterlife besides God would be. What place do humans even have alongside a being that just has an oracle for every single problem inside of him?

[El Arcón No.10107586]

>>10107505
>he is all-knowing
Find one verse in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy) which makes it seem like God is all-knowing.

God does exist. I made this post.