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/sci/ - Science & Math


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10060598 No.10060598 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

This is so true.

>> No.10060694
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10060694

>>10060598
Shit bait.
At least put rust or brainfuck or something, Jesus Christ. Ruby?

>> No.10060751

>>10060598
Ruby and python is scripting though

>> No.10060756

>>10060694
>impling brainfuck is more difficult than java

>> No.10060843

I agree, as a researcher on Class Field Theory who has made several breakthroughs in the field, I'm still unable to solve the Fizz-Buzz Challenge. I've been trying to solve it for about 7 years now, and it seems resistant to all approaches.

>> No.10060883

>>10060843
>Fizz-Buzz Challenge
Why did you make me look this up?

>> No.10060909

>>10060883
I take it you've never been to /g/

>> No.10060919

algorithms is a pretty difficult topic.

>> No.10060927

>>10060919
yeah, if you're a brainlet

>> No.10060928

>>10060843
I don't trust you.

>> No.10060953

ITT: retarded mad mathfags

Programming has been stated as the most difficult task by people like Newton, Einstein or Pluto

>> No.10060991

>>10060694
>the languages are the hard parts of computer science
Maybe if you're a webdev or some braindead script monkey (or a compiler developer, but they're usually geniuses). Computer science is a truly infinite field that, unlike physics or chemistry, isn't limited in its progress by our tools, at least not anymore. It is pure semantics, but instead of poorly reasoned philosophical drivel or bad math theses, the ultimate test for an idea is "does it work?" or at least "does it help us to get some other specific thing to work?". If you want to get the shallowest glimpse of a single one of the problems we're trying to tackle, I'd recommend this:
https://www.infoq.com/presentations/We-Really-Dont-Know-How-To-Compute
There are no problems in analytical philosophy that can't be taken as a subset of computability theory. If you want to keep learning and expanding a field of knowledge without having to be dependent on university owned hardware, grants, or any of the bullshit of academia, start learning computer science, but say goodbye to ever thinking you have a general grasp of the majority of your field. Also, navel-gazers and postmodern hucksters get no respect here. You have to make something work or demonstrate that something could work, or you're a nobody.

>>10060843
Math is just a subset of computer science now, anyway. You're basically an alchemist during the nascent stage of chemistry.

Not that I don't think OP sounds like a gigantic faggot, by the way.

>> No.10061034 [DELETED] 
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10061034

>>10060991
>Math is just a subset of computer science now, anyway.
This has to be one of the most delusional lines posted on this board.
This is how I know you are not into mathematics, and by that, I do not mean programming.

>> No.10061048

>>10060928
Just Google FizzBuzz, it's a meme on /g/

>> No.10061055

>>10061034
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/courses/cs4860/2012fa/MacKenzie-TheAutomationOfProof.pdf
You have no idea how far behind the curve you really are.

>> No.10061068

>>10061055
You are ahead of the curve and smashed straight into the first barrier for it, tell me about printers.

>> No.10061069

>>10061068
>for it, tell me about printers
What are you on about?

>> No.10061071 [DELETED] 
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10061071

>>10061055
>You have no idea how far behind the curve you really are.
Only an undergrad could be so delusional.
I am for proof assistants but nowadays you can use them only in certain fields of mathematics.
A theorem prover would be akin to general artificial intelligence.
And funny that you post a paper dated 1995.
They probably though they were pretty close then.

>> No.10061073
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10061073

>>10061069
>when a csfag doesn't even know the history of his profession

>> No.10061076

>>10061073
>csfag
Why the homophobia?

>> No.10061083
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10061083

>>10061076
It is a technical expose reflecting counter culture and contrarianism in general. I am not homophobia by choice, the GM made me do it.

>> No.10061120

>>10060927
Not him, but algorithms in undergrad has light mathematical machinery but is heavy on the reasoning skills and creativity. Grad algo pulls the curtain back and gets really tough really quickly.

>> No.10061123

>>10060598
Bullshit coding is easier than that shit.

>> No.10061125

>>10061071
>akin to an artificial intelligence
And that’s how i know you don’t know much about the field. Theorem provers are possible if you want to talk about efficient ways to do NP problems. That being said, there’s already well documented study into IP and IPSPACE. Theorem proving, verification, and interactive proof environments are a big study of CS not because we want to automate theorems, but we want to understand the computation of reasoning to the core.

>> No.10061127

>>10060598
The >>>/g/hetto is that way, code nigger.

>> No.10061213

>>10061123
>>10061127
You guys do realize this is a shitpost right?

>> No.10061224
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10061224

>>10060991
> Math is just a subset of computer science now, anyway.
computer science doesn't completely describe math in the way that math describes physics, faggot

>> No.10061226
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10061226

>>10061224

>> No.10061234

>>10061226
is it really accurate to imply that sociology is just applied computer science? because that doesnt make any sense

>> No.10061247

Computer science is about programming just like chemistry is about mixing fluids together in a lab.

>> No.10061308

>>10061224
Not him, but I even though I don’t believe that computer science is the “foundations” of all math, it is alongside the foundations of mathematics. Taking anything in complexity theory, type theory, optimization, information theory, algorithms, computational study of traditional topics such as topology, differential geometry, etc.. The list goes on.

To treat actual (read: graduate level/non meme) computer science as anything but mathematics’s younger brother is sort of missing the point.

>> No.10061346

>>10060953
>pluto
why would I give a shit about what a (((dwarf))) planet thinks?

>> No.10061595

>>10060694
>At least put rust
Shot bait.

>> No.10061914

>>10060756
..yes?

>> No.10061926

>>10061076
/r/lostredditors

>> No.10061930

>>10060598
so true haha

>> No.10061990

>>10060598
I mean, I kind of agree since I don't enjoy programming.

>> No.10061993

Do you even proof

>> No.10062007
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10062007

>>10060991
>>10061055
>>10061125
>this much delusion

>> No.10062295

>>10061308
Tbh this. I hope /sci/ undergrads don’t think actual computer science is leetcode problems. The CS PhD guys I work with are bros

>> No.10062314

not wrong actually. programming is a nightmare in the real world. mess after mess, kludge after kludge. enormously retarded libraries heaped on top of catastrophically retarded frameworks, text editors using 1.5GB RAM and taking 100ms to respond to keystrokes, code that could have grown in the marianas trench, error messages from a lovecraft story, cats and dogs sleeping together.

>> No.10062331

while we're on this shitarsed topic, can mathematicians stop using greek letters in squiggly, thin, italic, serif typefaces? my eyesight can't deal with this. thank you.

>> No.10062335

Software is for homosexuals and women, real men work with hardware.

>> No.10062361

>>10060598
The headache in programming isn't from problem solving but instead from translating the solution into the language.
>>10061055
Name a novel mathematical result that was proved by a theorem prover.

>> No.10062433

>>10062361
>Name a novel mathematical result that was proved by a theorem prover.

Op is a fag

>> No.10062435
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10062435

>>10062335
but i cant work with hardware while being comfy at home

>> No.10062436

>>10062433
>novel

>> No.10062442

>>10061034
Math is just a bunch of heuristics for bypassing the limitations of the human brain for finding answers to problems. The reason it "clicks" and "is beautiful" s because it's rearranging a bunch of data in ways you can process more easily.

Computer science is the more practical entry point.

>> No.10062445

>>10061226
> philosophylets
I am laffin

>> No.10062480

>>10061071
>And funny that you post a paper dated 1995.
Wang proved all the theorems of Principia Mathematica in 1960, I was just giving you a paper that looked at the current state of things.
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-0-8176-4769-8_4

>>10061073
I am asking "What is the point you're trying to make about printers?". Do you even have one?

>> No.10062499

Programming is arguably the hardest trade ever to have existed. The complexity of programs are essentially infinite.

>> No.10062500

>>10061234
its supposed to make you laugh nigger
>>10061247
>trying to equivocate the only other hard science with comp sci
lol

>> No.10062514

>>10061224
Computer science can completely describe math. To quote a different anon:

>If you're interested in this, Gerland J Sussman wrote 2 books about rewriting math notation into Scheme to reduce ambiquity, both were bassed on Spivak's lamentation in his 'Calculus on Manifolds' book about the shit state of modern math notation.

>Calculus for example is replete with the abuse of variable binding. Hans Freudenthal argues that the reliance on ambiguous, unstated notational conventions in such expressions as f(x) and df(x)/dx makes mathematics, and especially introductory calculus, extremely confusing and he pushed for mathematics educators to use more formal modern notation. Michael Spivak uses functional notation and discusses some of the problems with classical notation. "The mere statement of [the chain rule] in classical notation requires the introduction of irrelevant letters"

>Both of them looked at the Lambda Calculus notation to fix this, so it doesn't have to be Lisp, just regular ol' Lambda syntax will suffice.

Can you name a single area of mathematics that cannot be defined as a form of computation, symbolic or otherwise? CompSci is all about semantics. It is a different way of reasoning about semantics than math, and a better one.

>> No.10062516

>>10062500
>>trying to equivocate the only other hard science with comp sci
That wasn't what he was doing. It was an analogy, but you missed the point entirely.

>> No.10062535

Real talk, how hard is CS? I'm so fucking tired of eng and thinking this isn't the right major for me.

>> No.10062536

>>10060598
>>>/g/67998820

>> No.10062580

>>10062535
At my school it's really tough, CS is treated like an engineering discipline and puts you through about as much shit as any other engineering major. Currently getting my bootyhole rammed by my program's main algorithms class.

>> No.10062587

>>10062580
>and puts you through about as much shit as any other engineering major
aka makes you pass calculus
>bootyhole rammed by my program's main algorithms class.
I am so sorry to hear of your retardation.

>> No.10062627

>>10062535
Easier than Electrical/Mechanical Engineering and harder than Civil.

>> No.10062628

>>10062535
Compared to what? Is eng english or engineering? Undergrad CS is usually of middling difficulty (not as hard as electrical, way harder than civil, probably close to mechanical on average) and you'll have to learn a good amount what seems like trivia (but is actually pretty important for learning to reason precisely) at the time, but some professors can really turn you in the right direction and you can do an infinite amount of hands-on self-study. Grad level gets much harder with absolutely no upper limit, depending on what you want to study and how good your department is.

It isn't something you should switch to if you want an easy life, though. CS may not be about teaching programming (and many schools won't directly teach you any at all), but you're still going to have to program for assignments, and that will be a new and different kind of challenge. Once you have to start building shit that works within the arbitrary semantics and data structures of a programming language, you'll likely discover how sloppy your reasoning has been up until now. Even the people who end up being good at programming tend to struggle plenty at the beginning. Not everyone is born a Torvalds or Ken Thompson, but you'll learn a lot from the experience. Do you want to learn and be challenged, or do you want to coast on your intellect and get a respectable degree with the minimum amount of work? A lot of engineering disciplines are just learning some new formulas and rules and then applying them, but CS will force you to expand your methods of reasoning. It will make you smarter rather than simply increasing your knowledge as long as you have the drive to learn and your school doesn't suck donkey balls. It changes how you reason about reasoning, and that's something.

>> No.10062637

>>10062587
>aka makes you pass calculus
No I mean they give you tons of work to do you double nigger

>> No.10062651

>>10062637
>you double nigger

You have just been blacklisted from every programming job.

>> No.10062693 [DELETED] 

>>10062628
probably close to mechanical on average
lmao no, even the shittiest ME program is way harder than CS at even the best schools. ME is barely easier than EE.

>> No.10062695

>>10062628
>probably close to mechanical on average
lmao no, even the shittiest ME program is way harder than CS at even the best schools. ME is barely easier than EE.

>> No.10062699

>>10062695
>ME is barely easier than EE.
Did I say otherwise, brainlet? Are you a CS major? Let me guess: no.

>> No.10063589
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10063589

>>10060598
based and redpilled, if I may say so, my good man

>> No.10063759

>>10062514
This.
I think math and CS will eventually converge.

>> No.10064226
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10064226

>>10060598
Noice b8, op. Do you like my new hoodie?

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