Infinity is finite!

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Infinity is finite! Anonymous Mon Sep 17 10:33:57 2018 No.10009380 [Reply] [Original]

Yesterday, I was really tired and when I went to sleep in my sleep I realized, that something was off about or maths. Especially about the definition of the infinity. The thing is that infinite is actually not an infinite value if you put infinity in relation to something else.

Lets give you a few examples:
As we know, gravity can slow timespace, making basically people near blackhole slower than people on the outside of the galaxy.

Now imagine we developed a way to move to the event horizon and back of the blackhole.
You put a machine outside of blackhole to count numbers, like 1 each second.
You move to the event horizon and back. Outside infinite amount of time has passed. What number will the machine show?

Second example: You have 2 galaxies of same size with blackhole of the same size. One person moves to the event horizon of one galaxy and stays there for 1 hour. Other one to the another galaxy and stays there exactly the same time.

Techincally, for both, infinite time outside has passed. But will they be able to meet each other because they exist in a single timeline or no because moving out of one gravity field means you move out of the timeline?

Now a third example: You just fly out of your galaxy and then back there. Did you exit your timeline and infinite amount of time has passed since you were not related to that system?

What am I leading up to: pur understanding of infinity is lackluster. There shouldn't be infinity in our world, not as the way we understand it but as another plane, another dimension of numbers that count normally like 1, -1, i and stuff like that but in other direction and we are all connected over it.
This means that dividing by zero must give us a proper result, similar to how people figured out that square root of negatives equals i.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 10:36:46 2018 No.10009385 File: 3 KB, 635x223, r8.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=infinity An unbounded quantity that is greater than every real number.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 11:25:38 2018 No.10009461 >>10009380 >You move to the event horizon and back You don't come back from the event horizon

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 12:54:45 2018 No.10009578 >>10009461 Assumingly you could

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:02:56 2018 No.10009596 >>10009385 >unbounded quantity Undefined.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:06:25 2018 No.10009603 Time is relative and not actually all that important, it's merely a concept to explain change of state or location. There's been a lot of retarded divide be zero and infinity threads recently.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:07:27 2018 No.10009608 >>10009603 Is 0 not somewhat infinite?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:14:14 2018 No.10009621 >>10009596 breaks any definition 'tis the nature of the beast

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:17:51 2018 No.10009629 >>10009621 A quantity can't be unbounded - oxymoron.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:38:00 2018 No.10009680 >>10009608 I guess if you took too much LSD, yeah sure...

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:42:47 2018 No.10009688 >>10009680 0 = neutral infintiy Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:45:46 2018 No.10009692 >>10009629 >breaks any definition >'tis the nature of the beast did i fucking stammer

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:50:50 2018 No.10009698 >>10009692 >breaks any definition >'tis the nature of the beast Why are you trying to define 'it' then? Trying to give the illusion that what you're trying to refer to actually exists?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:51:14 2018 No.10009700 >>10009688 5 = semi neutral infinity Prove me wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:53:16 2018 No.10009704 >>10009700 >semi neutral Can only have infinite neutrality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:55:21 2018 No.10009708 File: 62 KB, 620x390, LogicalFallacy.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10009688

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:57:40 2018 No.10009710 >>10009698 >you're trying projecting a bit?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:58:24 2018 No.10009713

>>10009380
Your first example is somewhat ridiculous. When people say "what if" with reference to impossible things like crossing the event horizon or going faster than the speed of light, whatever logic follows is meaningless because it's fundamentally impossible - no conclusions about math can derive from such an argument.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 13:59:52 2018 No.10009715 >>10009708 It's a self-evident truth. If you have positive infinity and negative infinity, then you must have neutral infinity, otherwise positive and negative can't be different.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:00:26 2018 No.10009717 >>10009710 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:03:02 2018 No.10009719 >>10009704 is that supposed to be a proof?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:03:30 2018 No.10009721 >>10009715 What's neutral 1? You have positive 1 and negative 1, so where's neutral 1? Otherwise positive and negative can't be different.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:05:59 2018 No.10009724 >>10009719 Only 0 can be neutral.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:06:43 2018 No.10009726 >>10009721 >What's neutral 1? No such thing. Zero is neutral infinity. Zero is not a number. Numbers cannot be neutral.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:07:13 2018 No.10009729

>>10009715
Neutral infinity is "NaN", the result of 1/0. You might want to say 1/0 is infinity, but... is that a positive infinity or a negative infinity? It depends on the sign of the zero, doesn't it? Since a positive divided by a positive is a positive, and by a negative is a negative. But zero isn't positive or negative. You can't divide by it. The answer is NaN.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:09:40 2018 No.10009731 >>10009729 Zero isn't a number so of course you can't use it in a calculation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:12:32 2018 No.10009739 >>10009724 proof? >>10009726 >Zero is not a number. proof?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:16:37 2018 No.10009743 >>10009739 >proof? Name all the "numbers" that are neither positive or negative. >Zero is not a number. >proof? Because it is infinite.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:18:35 2018 No.10009745 >>10009713 Well the same way I can see infinity as impossible since we will never be able to count to infinity so infinity doesn't exist with that logic >>10009721 A 1 that lies between -1 and +1, go figure it out yourself

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:18:37 2018 No.10009746 >>10009743 >Name all the "numbers" that are neither positive or negative. unsigned 1, 2, 3, etc. >Because it is infinite define infinite

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:20:03 2018 No.10009751 >>10009746 >unsigned 1, 2, 3, etc. Well this means there is a negative unsigned 1,2,3 etc. and we came back to the point 0 again. If you want a neutral 1,2,3 then there will be an opposite neutral -1,-2,-3

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:22:18 2018 No.10009758 >>10009746 >unsigned 1, 2, 3, etc. You sure those aren't positive? >define infinite No beginning/end/separation.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:22:29 2018 No.10009759

>>10009751
>>10009726
You are getting it wrong. Who told you that there can only be positive and negative numbers like -1 and +1? What if they have colors like color charges in quantum mechanics and we have groups of 3 or more numbers like
red 1
green 1
blue 1

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:25:01 2018 No.10009762

>>10009751
>this means there is a negative unsigned 1,2,3
I don't think you know what "unsigned" means. If there can be a negative unsigned 3 then there can be a negative 0

>>10009758
>You sure those aren't positive?
yes.
>No beginning/end/separation.
so, every number is infinite? got it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:27:02 2018 No.10009766 >>10009759 >red 1 >green 1 >blue 1 Do these represent different quantities or not? If they do, they are not neutral.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:27:54 2018 No.10009767

>>10009762
No, there can't be negative 0 because zero is the convergence point of all numbers, be it positive, negative, assigned, unassigned, real or imaginary, they all converge at zero from all planes and dimensions. Zero is zero. It's singular, there can't be multiple different zeros.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:28:20 2018 No.10009768 >>10009578 >If you could break the rules what would happen Nothing relevant to reality?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:29:44 2018 No.10009772

>>10009766
You can't get neutral 1, because sum of -1 and +1, or in this case sum of all colors will equal zero.
Neutral means you cancel out both, + and -, so by your logic zero is every possible neutral number.
Neutral 1 is zero, neutral 2 is zero, neutral n is zero and neutral n+1 is zero too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:32:53 2018 No.10009779 >>10009767 ...yes, exactly, just like there can't be negative unsigned numbers... damn you're slow

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:33:53 2018 No.10009783 >>10009762 >yes. So 1 = 0, 2 = 0, 3 = 0? >so, every number is infinite? got it. Ultimately, but they cease to be numbers then. Representing them finitely is just more practical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:40:06 2018 No.10009795 >>10009783 >So 1 = 0, 2 = 0, 3 = 0? no? >Ultimately, but they cease to be numbers then. utterly dubious handwaving. I'm out

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:40:43 2018 No.10009796 >>10009779 Which leads to my point that all unassigned numbers equal zero as I mentioned above.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:41:14 2018 No.10009798

>>10009772
>so by your logic zero is every possible neutral number.
>Neutral 1 is zero, neutral 2 is zero, neutral n is zero and neutral n+1 is zero too.
My logic states that you can't have neutral numbers, numbers don't work by being neutral.

It then follows that zero cannot be a number. Zero being neutral infinity fits perfectly with positive and negative infinity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:42:49 2018 No.10009801 >>10009798 Zero is not infinity, it's a point, a dot of convergence. It can't be infinite since it's singular.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:46:04 2018 No.10009811 >>10009795 >no? Good. >utterly dubious handwaving. I'm out You forgot your gay card.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:50:37 2018 No.10009822 >>10009726 So the set of all real numbers excludes 0?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:51:23 2018 No.10009825 >>10009801 >it's a point, a dot of convergence Okay, and how big is this dot if it is finite? Where does it begin and end? >It can't be infinite since it's singular. The closest you're going to get to representing infinity is as a singular "thing".

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:53:46 2018 No.10009831 >>10009822 Do you include positive and negative infinity in the set of all "real numbers"?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 14:59:41 2018 No.10009839
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>>10009825
>Singular thing
>Which literally means that there is only one such thing in the entire sum of every mathematical planes
>Somehow represents infinity
What did anon mean by this?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:11:40 2018 No.10009873

>>10009839
Infinity can never be truly represented, it wouldn't be infinite otherwise.

However, mathematics is capable of representing it as clearly as possible. Numbers are the result of neutral infinity, positive infinity and negative infinity connected as one infinity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:22:37 2018 No.10010066 >>10009831 No because you cannot reach infinity, but you can reach 0

Miniature Spacecraft Mon Sep 17 16:28:42 2018 No.10010078

>>10009380

Infinity is only a mathematical concept. There is no infinity in real life, in physics.

In physics, when you encounter infinity, it's because you do something wrong or you don't understand enough what you observe (see black holes)

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:28:43 2018 No.10010079 >>10010066 >reach 0 And how do you do that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:43:37 2018 No.10010118 >>10010078 >Infinity is only a mathematical concept. There is no infinity in real life, in physics. It's a logical concept. If you believe logic exists in real life, then it's logical to think that infinity exists in real life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:51:58 2018 No.10010136 >>10010079 there is a pen on me desk right now. 1 pen on da desk. i put pen off desk, and now i see no pen on desk. amount of pens on desk is 0 :DD

>>	Miniature Spacecraft Mon Sep 17 16:52:34 2018 No.10010138 >>10010118 infinity is absurd, it's not logical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:54:55 2018 No.10010142 >>10010136 That's called -1

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:02:32 2018 No.10010163 >>10010138 Only when your concept of infinity is not logical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:03:52 2018 No.10010168 >>10010079 How many times have you killed yourself? What is your net displacement from your current position? Hope much cash do you have on you? Give that away. Etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:14:01 2018 No.10010186 >>10010168 >How many times have you killed yourself? -1 time. You can either kill yourself once, or not kill yourself once. You can't do something zero times because zero is neither doing or not doing, it is neutral.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:16:14 2018 No.10010192 >>10010142 If he had -1 pens on the desk then put one pen on the desk How many pens would be on the desk?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:32:23 2018 No.10010220 >>10010186 Killed yourself -1 times... so you gave yourself life? You honestly don't even understand what a negative number is. Learn that before thinking about infinity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:33:27 2018 No.10010224 >>10009796 So you're telling me every length is 0? Because all lengths and distances are unsigned numbers. >>10009811 >You forgot your gay card. You forgot your projection inhibitor

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:35:38 2018 No.10010232 >>10010142 >1-1=-1 the state of this pothead

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:40:26 2018 No.10010241 >>10010232 This, along with the incessant IQ threads, "metaphysics", and flat earth mentality, I'm done with /sci/

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:45:17 2018 No.10010250 >>10010241 And most importantly, the hateful responses by people who are blatantly wrong

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:54:44 2018 No.10010275 >>10010241 One of these is not like the other

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:57:32 2018 No.10010283 >>10010275 You're right, flat earth is at least an attempt at science

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:59:26 2018 No.10010291 >>10010283 You pushed my buttons here anon. you pushed em. Metaphysics deserves a place here.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:04:38 2018 No.10010305

>>10010291
Sure, if it can actually relate to the fundamental theories of physics in some way. I like talking about symmetry as much as the next guy. But then there's threads like this:
>>10009511
Which is basically what 95% of the metaphysics threads I see on /sci/ are, people who want to feel smart but don't actually care enough to learn the basic issues and patterns in the field.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:10:51 2018 No.10010319 File: 27 KB, 456x810, 12.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10009596 How can it be undefined you ameba, it is bigger than every real number, that's the definition.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:21:19 2018 No.10010341

Why are people so obsessed with dividing by zero. There is a very simple way to understand why you can't do it. First, understand that multiplication is just a short form for addition. 5 times 5 is just short for 5+5+5+5+5. Good. Now understand that division is just a short form for subtraction. 25/5 is just short for how many times you can subtract 5 from 25 until there is nothing left. So 25-5-5-5-5-5=0. Good. Now try to divide 25 by 0. 25-0-0-0-0-0-0... you will never reach 0. Not even if you subtracted 0 from 25 infinite times would you reach 0. It would still be 25. This is why you cant divide by 0, simplest explanation. Thank you and good night.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:29:15 2018 No.10010362 >>10010341 Actually pretty cool, thanks anon.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:48:07 2018 No.10010408 >>10010192 >How many pens would be on the desk? +1 pen would be on the desk. You can't "have" a zero "amount" of anything, to "have" requires a positive quantity like +1, to "have not" requires a negative quantity, like -1. Zero is neither.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:55:06 2018 No.10010427 >>10010220 You can't do something zero "times", you but can you can not do something 1 time, not 1 = -1

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 18:55:37 2018 No.10010429 >>10010408 >>10010427 No one is biting any more, sorry

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 19:00:00 2018 No.10010432 >>10010232 You're not taking the pen away from the pen, you're taking the pen away from something else, the pen still exists as a quantity, just as one that has been taken away.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 20:00:44 2018 No.10010536 >>10010305 And how exactly are we communicating these "fundamental" theories of physics to each other? To what standard do we agree? At some point were gonna have to lay some ground rules if we wanna talk about it at least

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 20:01:53 2018 No.10010539 >>10010305 >>10010536 to be fair you are absolutely correct about those kinds of threads though

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 06:28:46 2018 No.10012219 File: 220 KB, 566x800, 1537100093035.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>10009380 When you enter a black hole time slows but but never stops. Time theoretically stops at the singularity so you first theory is fake news

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 06:43:01 2018 No.10012228

>>10009380
Infinity doesn't really exist. Or rather, we are unable to perceive it at all. We can only think about procedures which can lead to infinity which ironically needs an infinite amount of steps from the start. Infinity is just a concept, impossible to realize in practice.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 07:08:48 2018 No.10012247 >>10012228 >practice noo, you mean my project of gluing noodles to paper and coloring it with crayons isn't going to work why even live anymore

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:01:54 2018 No.10013054

>>10012228
>Infinity doesn't really exist.
"It" is beyond the realm of true definition, but if we are to reduce "it" to a "thing", then infinity is the only thing that can exist, anything else is a logical impossibility.

>we are unable to perceive it at all.
I think we can perceive it to an extent, through formal logic or mathematical logic.

>We can only think about procedures which can lead to infinity which ironically needs an infinite amount of steps from the start.
Only if you believe in a deterministic universe with "time" moving in a direction. This is where the issue with "infinity" comes from, the concept of a cause and effect, 'beginning' and 'end' finite reality.

This kind of reality cannot work logically because it's an infinite regress. A cause and effect reality requires a constant chain of "causes" that it can never end without breaking the cause and effect chain. An infinite reality with no beginning/end resolves this infinite regress.

Most, if not all, paradoxes arise due to this deterministic view and are solved by not having a "beginning" and "end".

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:07:15 2018 No.10013071 >>10013054 cuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:10:18 2018 No.10013079 >>10013071 Your father was cucked by your mother, and your father's father was cucked by your grandma, and your father's father's father was cucked by your great grandma, and so on to an infinite regress.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:19:25 2018 No.10013096 >>10013079 ??????? Make some sense you stupid cuck

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:23:58 2018 No.10013103 >>10013096 Do you think believing you're "travelling" through "time" makes sense? Are you a timecuck?

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