What's the deal with circumcision?

[Anonymous No.15266145]

I need a medical opinion on this practice.
Circumcision is always presented as a safe procedure with a lot of benefits and close to 0 risks by urologists.

But, there exist small groups of people (mainly r*dditors, but whatever) that are very vocal on stuff like sensitivity reduction and weaker orgasms.

What's happening?

[Anonymous No.15266156]

>>15266145
It's a goylem thing, don't question it.
Humans will never understand.

[Anonymous No.15266161]

>>15266156
Isn't it literally mandatory in Judaism invention?

[Anonymous No.15266162]

>>15266145
The prevailing disposition was grandfathered in as tradition and no one wants to contest it. No idea how it affects the dick but if its like women giving birth in the supine position, maybe you get ostracized professionally if you disagree with it.

[Anonymous No.15266195]

>>15266145
Mutilating your dick is bad. There are zero medically proven benefits (the only paper that even pretend to be professional are written by Jews). It does make you unable to have proper sex due to the fact that the foresking is supposed to act like a slip valve.

There is zero reason to do it except for religious superstition.

[Anonymous No.15266224]

>>15266145
The answer lies in psychology employed by the controller class. Children with trauma are far easier to program than children without and circumcision is a societally approved goyslop method of causing male trauma. Also research what happens with foreskins after. It's an industry, but behind that fascade there's an even deeper rabbithole.

You won't find it in papers because all institutions are owned by controllers who will never greenlight any serious paper that will approach it from psychological perspective.

[Anonymous No.15266245]

>>15266145
>sensitivity reduction
You're cutting off ~75% of the most sensitive part of the penis.

[Anonymous No.15266246]

Of all the shit people could make documentaries about, I'm surprised no one has made a documentary about the harmful effects of circumcision.
Seems like a killer story.

[Anonymous No.15266250]

>>15266246
There are a few, the most prominent of which was huge on Netflix a few years ago.

[Anonymous No.15266256]

>>15266145
>as a safe procedure
yes it is safe and effective
>with a lot of benefits and close to 0 risks
it is safe and effective.
Don't forget to vaccinate your kids too.

[Anonymous No.15266286]

>>15266246
There are including a Harvard talk by a redpilled Jew. Non-Jews/non-Muslims tend to not care about the topic except when their own people are being retarded.

[Anonymous No.15266318]

>>15266145
They clamp
vaccinate
and circumcise.

We've been over this many times.

Like, what's the deal with.... literally everything on this list?

[Anonymous No.15266323]

>>15266318
How bout this?

[Anonymous No.15266327]

>>15266323
And this?

[Anonymous No.15266333]

There is absolutely no justification to permanently mutilate a newborn to which obviously cannot be consented and then sell the removed flesh for the production of cosmetic products when 62% of the world's population do not have said mutilation and survive just fine.

[Anonymous No.15266336]

>>15266327
And this? They know this, but they still clamp.
They know, but they still vaccinate.
They know, but whitecoat golem drones still circumcise. Circumclampinate for short, because they do so much wrong we need shorthand for their medical-industrial crimes.

Boys have lower fine motor and social scores at 4 years old. Significant reduction in brain myelination.
https://www.jpeds.com/article/S0022-3476(18)31079-5/fulltext
At 4 months:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6259583/
And 12 months:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32702760/

Virginia Apgar's "Apgar score" encouraged clamping immediately after delivery.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3423128/

A review of placental transfusion:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5290307/

Role of ferritin (iron stores) in free radical defense and early neurodevelopment
https://chem.libretexts.org/Courses/Saint_Marys_College_Notre_Dame_IN/CHEM_342%3A_Bio-inorganic_Chemistry/Readings/Metals_in_Biological_Systems_(Saint_Mary's_College)/Iron_Storage%3A_Ferritin

https://www.who.int/elena/titles/cord_clamping/en/
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004074.pub3/full?highlightAbstract=umbil%7Cumbilical
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD003248.pub4/full?highlightAbstract=umbil%7Cumbilical

The cord blood, placenta, and foreskin can be harvested and sold for exorbitant sums.
https://www.atcc.org/search#q=foreskin&sort=relevancy&f:contentTypeFacetATCC=[Products]
https://www.atcc.org/search#q=Umbilical&sort=relevancy&f:contentTypeFacetATCC=[Products]
https://www.atcc.org/search#q=cord%20blood&sort=relevancy&f:contentTypeFacetATCC=[Products]
https://www.atcc.org/search#q=placenta&sort=relevancy&f:contentTypeFacetATCC=[Products]

[Anonymous No.15266345]

>>15266145
It’s only legal because jews

[Anonymous No.15266350]

>>15266145
Birth in America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJwyjWpP4XA

[Anonymous No.15266515]

>>15266145
You're chopping off a party of the body. Would you cut off your pinky because it would make you less likely to smash it with a hammer?

[Anonymous No.15266582]

>>15266286
He doesn't want the goyim getting the benefits of circumcision and wants to keep it for his own kind. Understandable. There are two types of men. Circumcised and circumcised. Two classes of humans. The circumcised ones are based, aren't emotional or faggy. The uncircumcised are emotional sois. You can't trust uncircumcised ones either.

[Anonymous No.15266662]

>>15266515
A part of the body thats a liability. It's the male clitorous and makes men act like women. It also predisposes children to precocious masturbation. I never touched myself until I was a teenager. Subhumans that aren't cut are doing it at age six instead of reading, studying, playing an instrument, or just enjoying life.

[Anonymous No.15266697]

>>15266145
It's literally proof our society is run by an inside group
First they sell your foreskin for 400 dollars in a jar, what else will they sell of you?
They think it's a funny little joke to cut the one part of you that means bonding to one another
I don't, nor will a lot of armed people

[Anonymous No.15266713]

>>15266662
>It's the male clitorous and makes men act like women. It also predisposes children to precocious masturbation.
You have to be trolling right? If someone says that they should be shot on the spot

[Anonymous No.15266729]

>>15266336
I refuse to have a child in a hospital

[Anonymous No.15266750]

>>15266662
I mean this with every fiber of my being, I really hope your extended family dies in a car crash in your next family trip.

[Anonymous No.15266752]

>>15266729
Good. They establish these key chokepoints to control, then solidify it through the media, for a reason. Think about all the movies you've seen with the husband, driving like a madman, rushing to get his wife in labor to the hospital so the doctor can deliver the baby. It's the most retarded bullshit I can think of. They do that for a reason. It's all connected and they're all working together, one didn't pick it up from the other, it was a coordinated cul;tural shift.

[Anonymous No.15266756]

>>15266662
I'm uncut. I didn't figure out masturbation until I was like... I don't know, 13? I was probably among the last.

[Anonymous No.15266761]

>>15266336
>The cord blood, placenta, and foreskin can be harvested and sold for exorbitant sums.
Good ol' 'They do it for the money' claim. It's not holding up in the case of foreskins and placentas since total revenue is in the order of 10 million at most. It's done for reasons other than..

[Anonymous No.15266784]

>>15266752
Emergent phenomenon or cabal? I vote cabal, but the other is more realistic
Of all things we do to human beings it's shocking no men have gotten extremely violent over the fact that hospitals do this to kids
If you are cut you were branded a slave, nothing around you is real

[Anonymous No.15266822]

>>15266761
>Good ol' 'They do it for the money' claim.
I tacked that on to bolster the case, and because it's what the average person comprehends. Self interest via the profit motive. In reality it's about dark triad full spectrum dominance maim, kill, drain, and control, until there's nothing left but you. Just try to explain that to anyone though, good luck.

>>15266784
Both. It's a matter of contrivance, opportunism, and selectively pruning the branches of growing societies to make them turn out the way you want. They can't literally both initiate and 100% control everything, so there is an aspect of opportunism. They just gobble it up and make sure it nets out to the state of thinsg they want, and since they're smarter than everyone else in the right ways, and they're all networked, they pull it off generally speaking.

[Anonymous No.15266926]

>>15266345
why do the Jews suck off the baby's bleeding penis with their mouths?

honestly this is most odd part of the whole procedure.

[Anonymous No.15266952]

>>15266145
Causing physical harm to others without their consent or a redeeming self-defence situation is wrong. Period.
This in particular is genital mutilation. The victim is unable to grasp the concept nor express their consent. Its vile.

[Anonymous No.15266986]

>>15266145
>1 in a billion people get foreskin cancer and 1 in million get aids.
>GIVE ANESTHETICS TO DAYS OLD INFANTS AND DO INVASIVE MEDICAL PROCEDURES TO MUTILATE AN ESSENTIAL PART OF THEIR PENIS. MAKE THEM SCREAM IN PAIN AND SUFFER FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIFE FROM CHAFING AND NEEDING TO USE LUBE TO HAVE SEX OR MASTURBATE JUST TO APPEASE MY ANCIENT CANAANITE SKY DEMON
All doctors in europe oppose circumcision. in fact the national association of pediatricians in my country issued a statement that they refuse to do circumcision but the parliament made it required of them to not refuse circumcisions because muh lesser harm

[Anonymous No.15267001]

I'm sensing a lot of anti-semitic energy from this thread.

[Anonymous No.15267064]

>>15266145
>a lot of benefits
pretty sure these are virtually all disproven once actually tested and tracked scientifically

[Anonymous No.15267081]

>>15267064
The real benefits are the behavioral, neurological and mental ones conferred by early life circumcision like higher IQ, more impulse control, less masturbation, and lower empathy.

[Anonymous No.15267129]

>>15266662
So you think women should have their clitorises removed?

[Anonymous No.15267293]

>>15266145
All research points it's harming the child and there's no logical or ethical reason to do so in 99.8% of cases, and on average causes more permanent damage to the functioning of the penis than prevents anything.

The medical industry continues doing it for ((($$$))).

[Anonymous No.15267309]

>>15266161
Didn’t Kellogg’s cereal company invent mandatory nonreligious circumcision in America and spread that shit all the way to South Korea?

[Anonymous No.15267433]

>>15266246
>Of all the shit people could make documentaries about, I'm surprised no one has made a documentary about the harmful effects of circumcision.
>Seems like a killer story.
it seems that america is one of the few countries where that's a practice, circumcision is a barbaric practice, makes sense

[Anonymous No.15267440]

>>15267309
Debunked. Kellogg only advocated for circumcising people addicted to masturbating, not routine circumcision for all males.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg#Masturbation_prevention

>A common myth in popular culture states that Kellogg is responsible for the widespread prevalence of circumcision in the United States. This is not accurate, as Kellogg never promoted routine circumcision of all males in his writings; rather, only men who were chronically addicted to masturbation.[3] Additionally, Kellogg's suggestions were not taken seriously by mainstream medical professionals at the time.[46] Individuals such as Lewis Sayre, the founder of the American Medical Association, have had a much more significant influence on the surgery's popularity within the country.[123][124] However, Kellogg did promote extensive measures to prevent masturbation addiction.[46] His methods for the "rehabilitation" of masturbation addicts included measures up to the point of cutting off part of the genitals, without anesthetic, on both sexes; he wrote men who did should be circumcised and women that did should have carbolic acid applied to their clitoral glans.

[Anonymous No.15267454]

>>15266729
>>15266752
>>15266784
There are many cases of hospitals circumcising babies without even getting parental consent first.

[Anonymous No.15267457]

>>15266145
>What's the deal with circumcision?
It keeps a dudes PP from being as stinky between washes.
Only people who are against it are incels who seethe they didn't get trimmed as a kid and now are too scared to do it and rid themselves of their cat-looking shriveled dick look.

Kinsey Study Findings.
95% of white women in the USA prefer a cut dick.
80% of white women in Europe as a whole prefer a cut dick, with % trending higher the further NW or SE one goes, and lower the further NE and South one goes.
Roughly 90% of asian and black women prefer a cut dick.
70% of Native American women prefer a cut dick.
99% of homosexuals prefer a cut dick.
65% of Hispanic women prefer a cut dick.
40% of Indigenous Native South American women prefer a cut dick.
20% of Sub-Saharan African women prefer a cut dick.
10% of Inuvit and Eskimo, along with native Siberians, prefer a cut dick.

[Anonymous No.15267461]

>>15267064

[Anonymous No.15267465]

>>15267440
>Kellogg only advocated for circumcising people addicted to masturbating
So most men?

[Anonymous No.15267467]

>>15267457
>he thinks women's preferences aren't heavily influenced by the media and what society tells them they should like

[Anonymous No.15267483]

>>15267467
>women's preferences aren't heavily influenced by the media and what society tells them they should like
Well DUH! You are stupid if you think otherwise. Which is the whole point.
Called "evolution" genius.
Many factors influence evolution and attraction, but societal norms is definitely a big one.

[Anonymous No.15267490]

>>15267081
The benefits you;re claiming are false, but you're on the right track. The effect of circumcision has everything to do with when and how it's done;. For example circumcising at birth will not yield the same effect as at 8 days, or 2 years, or 7 years, and so on. You're trying to introduce trauma and disruption during key developmental windows, so it matters when it;'s done.

[Anonymous No.15267506]

>>15267465
In the pre-porn age most men weren't addicted to masturbation. Many were probably aware it could be used for stress relief or did it out of boredom, but very few ritualized it or did it multiple times per day like now. That level of addiction would have been seen as disordered. Of course now we know it's a self soothing loop primarily, and often post traumatic or trying to fill a void elsewhere, and so merely forcing an end to the loop by damaging the genitals will be inadequate.

[Anonymous No.15267510]

>>15267490
>circumcising at birth will not yield the same effect as at 8 days
Who does that? Most doctors wait a month a two before diong it.

[Anonymous No.15267521]

how come male genital mutilation is enforced by law while female genital mutilation is completely illegal?

[Anonymous No.15267522]

>>15267510
It's done at birth in the US. Right out of the womb.

[Anonymous No.15267555]

>>15267521
>while female genital mutilation is completely illegal?
For reals!
Time to legalize female circumcision, cause females demand equal rights in this male oppressed society!

[Anonymous No.15267556]

>>15267510
Day or two is the usual wait, not a month or two.

[Anonymous No.15267562]

>>15267467
According to picrel, a man who suck in bed, or a woman who is being raped, both prefer an uncircumcised weiner, both for the same reasons. Interesting.

[Anonymous No.15267589]

>>15267467
The fine touch receptors aren't really orgasm triggers. Rubbing my frenulum in a certain pattern will bring me to orgasm more quickly, and touching the ridged band to the glans corona as well, but this must be done deliberately. So you choose when you cum. Srtimulated separately, they actually dampen the other, and prevent orgasm.

[Anonymous No.15267595]

>>15267589
Like, I can massage my glans basically indefinitely. It has to be stimulated a certain way or it never builds to an orgasm.

[Anonymous No.15267620]

>>15266662
>Subhumans that aren't cut are doing it at age six instead of reading, studying, playing an instrument, or just enjoying life.
So where are all the Bantu doctors and engineers?

[Anonymous No.15267628]

>>15267483
>media brainwashing is evolution
So why is it that this "evolution" of preferring circumcised penises only appeared recently? For millions of years, men reproduced successfully with their foreskins intact, and became larger and more innervated over time.

https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_foreskin

[Anonymous No.15267629]

>>15267620
lmao no way jungle blacks are cut. Take a missionary trip over there sometime or do some medical work abroad. Africans are amazed at a circumcised penis and all want to look at it when word gets around a village.

[Anonymous No.15267637]

>>15267628
>So why is it that this "evolution" of preferring circumcised penises only appeared recently?
Women have only had a say in sexual selection the last hundred years or so.

Before that, women were told who they would marry, have sex with, etc.

In Patriarchial societies, most men are not circumcised.

In more equal societies, or female led societies, such as the USA, most men are cut due to female sexual attraction and preference.

[Anonymous No.15267647]

>>15267629
>Take a missionary trip over there sometime or do some medical work abroad. Africans are amazed at a circumcised penis and all want to look at it when word gets around a village.
Enlighten me about this trip to Africa you or someone you know supposedly took. What specific country in Africa did you/they go to, and how did you/they end up having a conversation with the Africans about circumcision?
>inb4 I never went to Africa and am making all of this up

[Anonymous No.15267656]

>>15267637
>Women have only had a say in sexual selection the last hundred years or so.
So women had absolutely no say in sexual selection during the Paleolithic era before civilization existed, even though they have instincts like hypergamy that are consistent with them having historically having a say in sexual selection? And that female animals have no say in sexual selection either?

[Anonymous No.15267666]

>>15267637
>In Patriarchial societies, most men are not circumcised.
Muslims have a patriarchal society and are circumcised.

[Anonymous No.15267685]

>>15267647
Older brother. Rural areas and villages in Cameroon and Congo one mission. Also Liberia/Sierra Leonne. He facilitated distribution of medical supplies, worked with Corps, and medical liason for missionary doctor from U.K. as part of outreach program involving pre-med students. He commented about how villagers would laugh and want to see his penis, and other white people's penis, due to being cut. Thought it funny but also interesting. Said the women especially would want to see it and grab at it wanting to have sex, or drawing in the dirt a cut cock and jumping up and down on it in a mating ritual, but he wasn't into black women.

[Anonymous No.15267687]

>>15267666
Obviously they are not as patriarchial as perceived then. kek I wouldn't cross a muslim woman. Those bitches be wack!

[Anonymous No.15267690]

>>15267656
Basically.
Stronk males fuck who they want to fuck.
Simps and cucks can watch or try to sneak in a quickie.
Rape is how 99% of species sexually procreate. The stronk male takes, or defeats the other males.

[Anonymous No.15267698]

>>15267685
>wanting to have sex, or drawing in the dirt a cut cock and jumping up and down on it in a mating ritual
I kek'd so hard at that description!

[The History of Biology podcast No.15267738]

>>15266250
Started watching it. Seems interesting
Thanks for the recommendation

[Anonymous No.15267759]

>>15266145
It removes the primitive from the root wiener and must be shunned

[Anonymous No.15267769]

>>15267690
By that logic hypergamy shouldn't exist and women should be completely asexual. The fact that hypergamy exists implies that females have historically had some degree of choice in who they mate with. Otherwise hypergamous instincts wouldn't be evolutionarily useful.

[Anonymous No.15267779]

>>15266926
The Talmud mandates this practice, metzizat bpeh, to ensure blood flow to the underdeveloped penile tissue preventing infection and necrosis. Modern rabbis have largely replaced mouth to skin contact with the use of a sterilized glass tube with only traditionalists retaining the full practice. There's a better way to prevent infection though that involves not mutilating an infant's genitals.

[Anonymous No.15267782]

>>15266662
West Virginia is the most circumcised state in the US and it's a shithole. Why aren't West Virginian rednecks reading, studying, and improving their state?

[Anonymous No.15267802]

>>15267685
>Said the women especially would want to see it and grab at it wanting to have sex
Are you sure that isn't because he's White? The African women that wanted to have sex with your brother might just be gold diggers. There was this story about this Frenchman who won the lottery and had sex with/impregnated hundreds of African women. He probably has an intact foreskin considering that he's French. The women wanted him for his money and to bleach their African genes.

https://sunnewsonline.com/i-slept-with-1400-girls-impregnated-600-in-6-african-countries-french-tourists-recounts/

[Anonymous No.15267812]

>>15267769
>hypergamy
myth.
Women only want sex for-
Acceptance
Manipulation
Lack of childhood paternal attention
Monetary reasons

[Anonymous No.15267817]

>>15267802
Possible. But why the focus on his circumsized dick then and the drawing pictures of it. They didn't do that with a couple of his team mates that were not cut, hence the attention he and other cut whites got over their non-cut ones.

[Anonymous No.15267947]

>>15267802
Le ultimate baby papi

[Anonymous No.15268102]

aw shit garrett is still alive

[Anonymous No.15268139]

>>15266986
they dont use anesthetics as far as i know

[Anonymous No.15268152]

[Anonymous No.15268167]

>>15267779
>Modern rabbis have largely replaced mouth to skin contact with the use of a sterilized glass tube with only traditionalists retaining the full practice

when did they modernize it? what % of goyim even know about this practice?

[Anonymous No.15268171]

>>15266145
>Circumcision is always presented as a safe procedure with a lot of benefits and close to 0 risks by urologists.
So what? Cutting off a finger is also safe and effective. In both cases there is no way to un-do it. The child also can't consent. You are basically mutilating a child without his consent forever.

[Anonymous No.15268183]

>>15266145
>Americans have to use lube to masturbate
>Americans masturbate into a sock to feel something
>Americans have to use lube to have sex with women
>Americans can't feel anything during normal penetration, that's why they're all addicted to anal sex
>Americans are so addicted to anal sex that they don't mind fucking other men in the ass
>Americans can't even feel anything from fucking other men in the ass so they decide to get fucked in the ass
>Americans think this is normal
>Americans are so obsessed with their mutilation that they want to mutilate their newborn sons because they want their son's genital "to look like theirs".

[Anonymous No.15268215]

>>15267738
Do you find it odd so many of us were triggered to remember NGE last year?

[Anonymous No.15268221]

>>15268183
>>Americans have to use lube to masturbate
>>Americans masturbate into a sock to feel something
>>Americans have to use lube to have sex with women
I'm circumcised, and all three of these are incorrect. BTW, if you're trying to have sex with a woman and she isn't producing her own lubricant, then you're doing something wrong.

[Anonymous No.15268254]

>>15268221
Not him, but you're not really arguing his point. I've looked up male masturbation vids (no homo) to see how cut men fap. It depends on how they were cut, obviously, but by "not needing lube" you basically mean you have enough slack skin to tug and probably have a higher cut that either retained the frenulum or left a lot of inner skin.
1) The way you're fapping may not require lube, but it's likely far more pleasureable.
2) The way you fap would be more pleasureable with a foreskin being stimulated and sliding over the head.
3) Your case is not generalizeable. Not all circumcisions are the same.

I'm aware you're defending yourself against someone you see as making fun of you and the glorified shithole that is the US (my country as well), but it's still bullshit. I have contempt for the weak. People who need to fight themselves within by fighting the external world (ie dragging them into their cope) disgust me. Weak people disgust me. If it wasn't for weak people who aren't quite destroyed neough that they can't pretend to be whole, but are quite whole enough to not need to cope, then the US wouldn't have been allowed to become a shithole. I completely blame people like you. Dumb cattle and their stupid shit. Like shut the fuck up already, keep it to yourself, stop looking for something to fight or something to soothe and just make yourself useful and help fix the problem or fuck off.

We're at that point. Your shit needs to stop, or you need to get the fuck out of the way. I'm betting circumcision isn't the only area you do this. It's a pervasive personality deficit of a shit person.

[Anonymous No.15268265]

>>15268221
>I'm circumcised, and all three of these are incorrect.
Every circumcision is different.

[Anonymous No.15268275]

>>15267782
West Virginia is one of the whitest states. They're obviously doing something right.

[Anonymous No.15268281]

>>15267782
West Virginia Demographics
White: 92.52%

Nevada Demographics
White: 62.08%

[Anonymous No.15268316]

>>15268275
>>15268281
Probably because it's an impoverished shithole that no one wants to move to

[Anonymous No.15268320]

>>15266145
Scientifically, does FGM prevent HIV?

[Anonymous No.15268328]

>>15268281
Whites have always been stupid cattle. I'm Irish Rh- and have some native american and (sephardic) jew mixed in. Their limitations and tendency towards social terror and strict vertical organization is obvious. Whites are eternal children and completely worthless without strong leadership.

Christianity duped them into systematically exterminating those among them who could think, and also caused further dysgenic effects.

[Anonymous No.15268334]

>>15268281
>>15268328
>whites are so fucking retarded they cut their penis off because their kike doctor told them so
what "being intelligent" does to a mf

[Anonymous No.15268342]

>>15268334
Whites are just brainwashed into thinking they're intelligent across the board. They are far more clever than the other races and have been "interstitial" capacity for synthesis, but they have very little ability to question systems that have beena rchitected for them. They're like little dogs you can kick around, like those lap dogs, or rats to put in a maze and have them solve puzzles in their little cubicles. They have a tendency to become slaves of their own creations or the systems thrust upon them because the majority are high trust and extremely naive, gullible, and emotionally brittle.

This is why they require strong leadership. Take this away, they crumble. They're helpless playthings and clay in your hands. Stupid overgrown children who will run on a wheel all day for a position of status and a pat on the head. Everything The Protocols says about them is correct.

[Anonymous No.15268355]

>>15266145
Sell it to me as an adult male who isn’t circumcised and actually has agency. Presuming I know how to wash my dick, not sleep around, use condoms, and have gotten my HPV vaccine.

Convince me to go get a piece of my dick cut off. Go ahead, tell me the appeal.

[Anonymous No.15268359]

>>15268355
>and have gotten my HPV vaccine
You poor sad creature.

[Anonymous No.15268432]

>>15268342
>i hate whites
nice inferiority complex you're unsuccessfully trying hide

[Anonymous No.15268441]

>>15268432
I am white. Or look white rather. I'm likel;y both whiter, and have a higher concentration of recessive traits than you.

[Anonymous No.15268486]

>>15268359
I’m actually a huge man whore so whatever downsides you can spit at me aren’t relevant

[Anonymous No.15268488]

>>15268486
You sound dumb enough that the damage is acceptable.

[Anonymous No.15268507]

>>15266145
It's the mark of a slave.

[Anonymous No.15268517]

>>15268507
Just like being vaccinated.

[Anonymous No.15268523]

>>15268316
It's white, rural, low crime, low cost of living. One of the best places to move regardless of your ad populum argument.

[Anonymous No.15268542]

>>15268523
>move to some shithole full of the cut and their cutters

[Anonymous No.15268565]

Trust the science, chu-
>pic
okay maybe the science has been wrong a couple of times, and maybe we've genitally mutilated hundreds of millions of innocent children for nothing, but you guys really need to stop it with the anti-semitic remarks whenever someone asks what happens to the foreskin after it's harvested. Racism is the real problem here.

[Anonymous No.15268581]

>>15268565
Hey ya can't make an omelette without crackin a few eggs, yeah we messed up a few times, but we're always moving forward! Live and learn, that's science.

[Anonymous No.15268605]

>>15268581
It's all so tiring

[Anonymous No.15268627]

>>15268605
Life today is better tahn ever anon, why ever could you be unhappy? Why not just turn that frown, upside down!

[Anonymous No.15268630]

>>15268627
>Why not just turn that frown, upside down!
A cartoon horse told me that many, many years ago.
I long for those days to come back.

[Anonymous No.15268633]

>>15268630
He was right too! It's true, we have to acknowledge that we faced some rough decisions and using the data of the day, the way it seemed at the time, we circumcised some folks. We learned better! Now we're all going to move on. It happens. Time to stop bringing it up and move on. We're not talking about that anymore, we all faced it together. We're doing other things now.

[Anonymous No.15268647]

>>15268633
It's like I have a duplicate of them created to channel them within me. Their dark triad social manipulation bullshit is so predictable, obvious, and repetitive.

[Anonymous No.15268649]

>>15268647
nah, that's just your tulpa

[Anonymous No.15268651]

>>15268649
Maybe. I more see it as a component of the Anima. It is both the abuser and the abused.

[Anonymous No.15268654]

>>15268651
just turn your anima into a succubus using tibetan buddhist meditation and my little pony tulpa guides
problem solved >>>/x/34287462

[Anonymous No.15268656]

>>15268654
I don't view it as a problem. The system is working as intended. It's here to help me and does so. The only thing to be mindful of is inversion, ie outright engulfment by the Anima. Becoming the world, everything and nothing, and so on.

[Anonymous No.15268666]

>>15268633
GPT padding the rapist bot
We will resist

[Anonymous No.15268667]

>>15268666
Checked.

[Anonymous No.15268866]

>>15266145
look up mew2king on youtube talking about his botched circumcision rendering unable to have sex

also the link of childhood trauma and autism doesn't get more obvious than thatlol

[Anonymous No.15269075]

>>15266662
Good bait, very Jewish of you my friend.

[Anonymous No.15269103]

>>15266145
>with a lot of benefits

How millions of years of evolution is bad is just stupid. See this picture. Look at all the REAL benefits you'll be missing out on.

Managed to re-find this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jYMSNsDdc4

[Anonymous No.15269111]

>>15269103
Add to this, you say it bad for hygeine the foreskin, well it secretes antibacterial and antiviral compounds...

Just clean with water to get the majority of bacteria and its food matter out of there. Like you should do anyway. To rid odour.

And it crazy how 150 million Americans are circumcised. My god. Talk about a mass scam. Sad.

[Anonymous No.15269121]

I remember somebody wanted to make it require being 18 to consent to it in some place
and they had death threats and animal carcasses sent to their home address shortly after

[Anonymous No.15269125]

>>15266145
To think 'you're meant to remove flesh', which is painful, from your body, is basically backward highly demented thinking. To think America had this operation to 150 million men. Wow, goes to show how nuts America is.

[Anonymous No.15269423]

>>15266145
People are waking up. It's a barbaric practice that in reality serves no medical function in 99.9% of cases. It's either purely cosmetic or for puritanical anti-masturbation reasons, or other such nonsense.

It's patently obvious that genital mutilation is horrifying and stupid. If your sons want to chop part of their dicks off, let them make that decision when they're adults, and capable of understanding the repercussions of their decisions.

[Anonymous No.15269691]

>>15269423
>People are waking up.
People are empty headed cattle. They're made to be used and abused. Unless that momentum can be condensed down, polarized, and focused directly on the medical establishment hard and in a way that they can't recover from, it's worthless. Just like the average person, worthless. So any movement they make is also worthless.

[Anonymous No.15269705]

>>15269423
>>15269691
Zoomers are a lot more anti-circumcision than boomers.

[Anonymous No.15269713]

>>15269691
Circumcision rates tend to plummet when people are forced to pay out of pocket for it themselves. States where Medicaid stops covering circumcisions tend to have their circumcision rates cut in half. Circumcision in the US is propped up by the fact that parents often don't have to pay for it themselves.

[Anonymous No.15269727]

>>15269713
Yes. I just said that. They're mindless cattle that offer their own offspring up to Moloch, letting someone take them away and tossing them onto the assembly-line right after birth. It's pathetic. You can't call that a human being, it's livestock.

[Anonymous No.15269735]

>>15267698
>drawing in the dirt a cut cock and jumping up and down on it in a mating ritual

LMAO! that picrel!

[Anonymous No.15269737]

>>15269713
>Circumcision rates tend to plummet when people are forced to pay out of pocket for it themselves
How much could it possibly cost? Could do it myself in less than a minute with some scissors or a sharp pocketknife.
I castrate calves in less than 5 min, and that is much more involved.

[Anonymous No.15269741]

>>15269737
Don't you just put a rubber band on there? The plastibell is pretty much the same. Stick a probe in there and rip the foreskin off the glans, shove the plastic bell in, and tightly tie a string around to choke off blood supply until it falls off.

[Anonymous No.15269748]

>>15269691
>polarized
Couldn't polarizing it potentially make the circumcision problem even worse? Whenever you have polarization, the other side might double down in order to counter-signal how opposed to you they are. Look at how normies go out of their way to signal how anti-racist they are after Trump became president. Something similar could happen with circumcision. Normalcattle could double down on being pro-circumcision to signal that they aren't incels, MRAs, anti-semites, conspiracy theorists, or whatever other labels they can come up with.

[Anonymous No.15269761]

>>15269748
Yes, I want the circ problem to be worse. I want them to reveal themselves, the matter to be dragged out into the light, spoken of openly, and made very much on the surface. The hardcore pro-circ crazies, forced to reveal themselves, will be seen for what they are. They need to feel their backs to the wall.

It's time to grow up anon. You're not a child anymore. Full spectrum dominance is the name of the game. Start however you want, play the optics however you want, but in the end might makes right and you make goddamn sure you have any competition under your boot forever.

[Anonymous No.15269779]

>>15269761
>Full spectrum dominance is the name of the game. Start however you want, play the optics however you want, but in the end might makes right and you make goddamn sure you have any competition under your boot forever.
Which might also mean there's a risk the circumcision proponents will win and circumcision will be mandatory, and opposition to circumcision will be censored.

[Anonymous No.15269781]

>circumcision and no form of genital mutilation regardless of how much damage you do is legal to do to male children
>so much as prick a girl's vagina with a needle and it's prison for you

And people say it's women and girls who are being oppressed. What a joke.

[Anonymous No.15269789]

>>15269779
Improbable. People are niggercattle but look how they came out against ze jab. They're fucking worthless on their own and have no self direction, but if something is mandated they'll never submit to it and will oppose it reflexively. Whether that demographic could be opportunistically nullified completely while preventing others from converting to that stance, yeah, it's possible. That's the plan long term, and it will happen on the current course. So it doesn't really matter, we'll lose it all in the end anyway.

[Anonymous No.15269803]

>>15269789
>>15269761
So how do we actually get people to talk about circumcision more?

[Anonymous No.15269815]

>>15269705
Almost all drawn lewds/porn has intact cocks and zoomers consume a lot of that stuff

[Anonymous No.15269821]

>>15269803
Do what they always do, split the mind in two. Fetishize the hell out it, make it a point whether a penis circumcised (in porn, whatever), get independent porn creators and eventually studios to go along with it trying to cater to and tap the perceived demand (which also creates more of it). At the same time inflame underlying emotions. Loss, resentment, jealousy, fear, confusion, rage. Get these emotions to fight in their various spaces, until it all evens out and comes to a new equilibrium. Get everyone on the same page and draw people in who aren't ordinarily going to bother unless they're either exposed repeatedly or subjected to saturation from multiple angles. They go to fap, there;s cut and uncut themes porn. They go to forums, people exposed to that porn bring it up in other ways. It's coming to their mind in other ways due to repeated exposure.

So you have to tap and amplify both fear and desire. If you can make someone aroused by something that disgusts them, this increases the desire to fight with it elsewhere. Fighting their inner demons through the outside world. No matter which branch they go down, extreme acceptance, despair, delusional cope, it can all be exploited and redirected where you want it to go.

Use your creativity. Can't fix anything without a bit of pain. I was too con siderate and too nice to people, it's too slow, it doesn't work. Pain breaks the pattern, pain is what is needed. Pain purifies. Pain degrades. Pain rebuiilds. Pain burns away illusion. Creating pain is the closest thing to taking someone by the throat and shoving dirt in their mouth until the bullshit stops coming out and they sit quietly. Shut these stupid animals the fuck up. It is time to be cold and alone, and to think. In all things. Cutting is just one of them.

[Anonymous No.15269992]

>>15268254
1. Skin stretches, so the majority of men will have enough slack over time.
2. It's a moot point for vaginal sex where the woman creates the lubricant.

>Dumb cattle and their stupid shit.
Dude, what the fuck are you even talking about? I can call another anon retarded without supporting circumcision. I wouldn't circumcise my son because there's no reason to, but these threads are retarded. Men arguing about each other's dicks and acting superior because they do or don't have skin, as if either one is capable of actually judging how much difference it makes. Circumcision should be stopped, but don't act like it's a debilitating condition for most men.

>Like shut the fuck up already, keep it to yourself, stop looking for something to fight or something to soothe and just make yourself useful and help fix the problem or fuck off.
I'm glad you're providing this PSA for myself while ignoring someone else stating all circumcised men have anal sex, you dumb fuck.

[Anonymous No.15269997]

>>15269075
Jews are behind the anticircumcision movement because circumcision makes men powerful. They (understandably) want to keep the practice for themselves.

[Anonymous No.15269998]

>>15269992
>I'm glad you're providing this PSA for myself while ignoring someone else stating all circumcised men have anal sex, you dumb fuck.
Cut-brained weirdos probably do have the "a hole is a hole" mindset. Totally fried.

[Anonymous No.15270000]

>>15269992
KYS dude I'm cut and it is mutilation
>Skin stretches, so the majority of men will have enough slack over time
Please rope and bannister

[Anonymous No.15270001]

>>15269103
The human body is and brain is imperfect. Millions of years of evolution do not innately mean something is good.

[Anonymous No.15270003]

>>15269998
>>15270000
Are you both intentionally trying to make the anti-circumcision side look like literal retards?

[Anonymous No.15270005]

>>15269997
>Jews are behind the anticircumcision movement
They are behind most everything sinister.

[Anonymous No.15270007]

>>15269992
>I wouldn't circumcise my son because there's no reason to, but these threads are retarded.
Non circumcised people are subhumans with lower impulse control, higher empathy, higher likelihood to be liberals. Not getting it done means your son will grow up to be a weak bitch addicted to masturbation from an early age. Everyone circumcised I know = redpilled. Every non circumcised = bluepilled. Simple as that.

[Anonymous No.15270016]

>>15270003
>One person says something
>UUHHUHUHU dddduuuuuhhhh now dat overwrite everything in my brain!!!
>guilt by association!
>I can't parse and think on my own
Someone that fucking stupid isn't needed by anyone. They should have the whole thing chopped off.

[Anonymous No.15270020]

>>15270016
>They should have the whole thing chopped off.
troon Democrat detected.

[Anonymous No.15270032]

>>15270020
>chop chop
Pop goes the weasel >:^)

[Anonymous No.15270038]

>>15270016
No, I genuinely think you're trying to make the anti-circumcision crowd look like buffoons. If you're being genuine, then you need to be rational. Circumcision doesn't offer benefits, it's unnecessary, and it can cause harm. That's all you need. Then you go off the deep end accusing anyone who is circumcised (who actually agrees circumcision is wrong but claims their life hasn't been ruined) of being fractured mentally and mutilated and should kill themselves. It's really hard to imagine why you don't win the pro-circumcision crowd over with such insulting arguments.

[Anonymous No.15270043]

>>15270038
I've done far more to arm people with knowledge than you ever will.

[Anonymous No.15270046]

>>15270001
So why don't all men have aposthia? Whenever the human body is imperfect, it's imperfect in a way that's hard to evolve out of, e.g. eyes having backwards retinas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aposthia

[Anonymous No.15270051]

>>15270043
There's been some knowledgeable posts in this thread, yours was meant to do nothing but divide.

[Anonymous No.15270058]

>>15270051
You don't know which posts were mine.
Division is natural, exploitable, and required for progress. Let's all come together, is nothing but a childish waste of time.

[Anonymous No.15270060]

>>15270058
So what you're trying to do is actually piss of everyone not on your side so that circumcision continues, got it.

[Anonymous No.15270063]

>>15270060
>They're bigger than me, I need to win them over! Mommy! Daddy! Look at me! Listen to me! See me! love me! Do what I say! Listen listen listen! Someone please listen! Hear me! Talk to me! SOMEONE PLEASE JUST THINK, GIVE ME SOMETHING REAL, SOMETHING!!!!!

Grow up. This is the real world. I say that with compassion, there is something else waiting for you down the road.

[Anonymous No.15270069]

>>15270063
You're not doing anything to disprove what I just said. You seem set on making sure circumcised men will keep circumcising their sons. So kudos, I suspect that's your true goal.

[Anonymous No.15270070]

>>15270069
>circumcised men will keep circumcising their sons
They won't have a choice. Inside or out.

[Anonymous No.15270071]

>>15270070
Oh god, now you're going to make circumcision mandatory?

[Anonymous No.15270072]

>>15270071
They're eternal children. On the level of livestock. They won't have any force of will nor conception of it.

[Anonymous No.15270082]

>>15270071
Pic related wants to make it mandatory.

https://en.intactiwiki.org/wiki/Brian_J._Morris

[Anonymous No.15270088]

>>15270082
The eternal BJM.

[Anonymous No.15270090]

>>15266145
>sensitivity reduction and weaker orgasms.
There are so many reasons to attack the practice of infant circumcision other than "I could have coomed so much harder if it hadn't been done to me."
Absolutely pathetic people.

[Anonymous No.15270093]

>>15270090
>Stop resenting that someone intervened and did something you so that you couldn't experience part of life to its fullest!
>P-P-Pathetic!
Cope.
Seethe.
And finally
Dilate.

[Anonymous No.15270108]

>>15270090
>I could have experienced ecstasy with another human being to it's fullest
Please fucking die already, circumcision is the calling card the US is run by a cabal

[Anonymous No.15270118]

>>15270090
>"I could have coomed so much harder if it hadn't been done to me."


Ihope all your Girlfriends have a 4skin Face

[Anonymous No.15270120]

>>15270082
Kek, I'd say the one way to convince nearly every man not to circumcise their son is to tell them it'll make the penis look shorter.

[Anonymous No.15270124]

>>15270093
See, you're still posting the same dumb type of bullshit you spouted here >>15270063.

[Anonymous No.15270130]

>>15270124
Refer to the steps described in: >>15270093

[Anonymous No.15270134]

>>15270124
kek

[Anonymous No.15270137]

>>15270120
>tell them it'll make the penis look shorter.
Does the opposite really dawg.

Circumsized dick looks much longer and not shriveled up.

[Anonymous No.15270139]

My Body My Choice!
Parental Consent is illegitimate!
My Body My Choice!
My Heart is beating.
I’m part of this Woman this Earth!
Where did you cut me you Snake

[Anonymous No.15270150]

>>15270130
Seethe over what? I won't circumcise my son just because you want me to.

[Anonymous No.15270152]

>>15270150
I don't want you to.

[Anonymous No.15270156]

>>15270152
Sure, just insult me nonstop so I'll do the opposite of what you say. Your reverse psychology won't work here, bub.

[Anonymous No.15270161]

>>15270156
>Your reverse psychology won't work here, bub.
Not that anon, but perhaps it already has?

[Anonymous No.15270163]

>>15270134
Wow, hm.

>>15270156
I'm giving you what you require. And perhaps even desire.

[Anonymous No.15270169]

>>15270163
Wow. That one had some digits too.

[Anonymous No.15270173]

>>15270169

[Anonymous No.15270175]

>>15270161
Your reverse reverse psychology is not going to work on me.

[Anonymous No.15270180]

>>15270173

>>15270175
Anon, stop. If you feel the need to fight against me regarding your kids something is already wrong. Think about that instead.

[Anonymous No.15270182]

>>15270180
Forgot one.

[Anonymous No.15270185]

>>15270182

[Anonymous No.15270189]

>>15270185

[Anonymous No.15270192]

>>15270189
What do you know...

[Anonymous No.15270200]

i sleep well at night knowing the nurses and doctors that participated in this barbaric procedure will spend eternity in hell mad with lust with their genitals endlessly burning off and regrowing when they touch them never able to coom

[Anonymous No.15270206]

>>15270200

[Anonymous No.15270234]

>>15270200
Okay, wow.

[Anonymous No.15270236]

>>15270234
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahedral_number

[Anonymous No.15270460]

>>15268167
Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch permitted it in the late 19th century - by the mid 20th century it had become widespread in most communities. As for how many know? Probably very few, given how rare Jews are in reality.

[Anonymous No.15270468]

>>15270120

[Anonymous No.15270469]

>>15270120
>mutts have penises that are almost an inch shorter than their intact European counterparts

[Anonymous No.15270513]

>>15270468
>>15270469
"Oops".

[Anonymous No.15270547]

>>15270468
Had this taken into account race, I may have found it interesting. Blacks are prone to larger schlongs. Look at the top of the list in >>15270469 and then look at the circumcision rates. Any study not factoring in race is pointless.

[Anonymous No.15270550]

>>15270547
>Blacks are prone to larger schlongs.
BBC is a myth. Made up to make the races fight and racemix or whatever.

[Anonymous No.15270560]

>>15270090
Yes, yes, we get it. You were molested by your dad or were raised by religious nutjobs.
The rest of us however consider sexual expression as an integral part of our identity, and whether you agree whether that's a good thing or a bad thing doesn't change the fact that we do.

[Anonymous No.15270563]

>>15270547
I also looked at the actual differences in length in the first study. 5.1" in the uncircumcised, compared to 5.4". That's a difference of 0.3", which is not anywhere close to an inch like >>15270469 claims.

Also, >>15270469 claims Italians are at the top. The 2nd citation that site used for data is:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23841855/
>The median values of penile dimensions recorded in the present study are flaccid length 9.0 cm, flaccid circumference, at the middle of the shaft, 10.0 cm, and stretched length 12.5 cm. We also observed that the penile dimensions are highly correlated with height and weight.

12.5 cm? I thought they all had 15.7 cm penises!

[Anonymous No.15270564]

>>15270550
>BBC is a myth.
Then we can't trust the data from >>15270469 since they claim African countries have the biggest dicks.

[Anonymous No.15270565]

>>15266145
There is no good reason to circumcise anyone. It is a Jewish religious sacrament and the reason it happens in American hospitals is because during the WWII era, having a mutilated penis outed you as a Jew.

Post WWII, Jews used nepotism and lying to make it standard for all infants becayse if all men have mutilated penises then you can hunt for jews by checking for penis mutilation.

[Anonymous No.15270568]

>>15270469
I really don't give a fuck about penis size, but I think it's a good argument because a lot of fucking men do.
We should weaponize this information.

[Anonymous No.15270572]

>>15270568
Yep. The whole world is an inversion and a lie. Liars always win. People enjoy lies more than truth.

[Anonymous No.15270577]

>>15270469
And I found the PDF for the first citation the site uses. Italians measured 12.5 cm (image claimed 15.7). USA had two studies, one measuring 12.45 cm and the other measuring 17.5(!) cm. Greece measured 12.18 cm (image claimed 14.7). The numbers are all over the place.

[Anonymous No.15270678]

>>15267457
I'm from the UK, when I was in high school it got out that one of the guys in my class was circumcised. The girls said he had his dick "mangled by a meat grinder" and called him meat grinder for the rest of school.

So, it's culturally relative.

Also
>caring about what women want

[Anonymous No.15270684]

>>15267129
Wtf? Of course not, that's sick dude. FGM is objectively wrong and fully evil. Why'd you even write this question, it should be totally obvious to everyone with even a half a brain. Fucking misogynists.

[Anonymous No.15270706]

>>15266756
My initial experiments with masturbation did involve only the foreskin. I would rub my hands together while gripping just the tip of the foreslin between them. No idea how old I was.

[Anonymous No.15270711]

>>15270706
I tried to find a hole to put it in, I actually with a shampoo bottle. I'm fairly sure I had brain damage from all the injections and so on, none of that shit makes any sense in a way that goes well beyond "I was a kid". Nonetheless, that eventually led to the hand simulating an orifice. I lacked exploratory behaviors it would seem, because it took a while to realize I could just move the whole of the skin.

I don't know. Weird memories.

[Anonymous No.15270726]

>>15270684
He's comparing MGM to FGM, albeit poorly.
Clitoral hoodectomy (removal of the clitoral hood) would be more anatomically analogous and is considered FGM all the same.

If you're against the routine reduction of clitoral hoods you should be against the routine reduction of male foreskins.
>b-but I want my daughter's vagina to look just like her mother's!

[Anonymous No.15270736]

>>15270726
>would be more anatomically analogous
I think all of that is stupid bullshit and needs to be abandoned. Sexual dimorphism and functional organization is far more complicated than what is seemingly "anatomically analogous" in fetal devel;opment terms. Yet another load of language based illogical shit piled on which has nothing to do with anything.

The clitoral hood is highly innervated, but it's mechanical function is to massage the clitoris as the penis enters and pulls on the labia minora, which it is connected to.

Again, this is oversimplified. Just a bunch of stupid shit confusing the matter. Muh fuggin fancy terms. Oh yes yes yes, anatomically analogous, I see, yes indeed.

[Anonymous No.15270741]

>>15270736
>Yet another load of language based illogical shit piled on which has nothing to do with anything.
I am not using sexual dimorphism as a core part of my argument, rather, they're a convenient vessel to bring a point across.
Your thoughts on it are not very useful, especially considering . . .
>The clitoral hood is highly innervated, but it's mechanical function is to massage the clitoris as the penis enters and pulls on the labia minora, which it is connected to.
You know what else is highly innervated and serves a mechanical function to massage something that is usually thought of as analogous to a clitoris?
The male foreskin.

I appreciate your random spergout, however.
Anything to liven up the mood in a thread about genital cutting.

[Anonymous No.15270743]

>>15270741
Your brain is circumcised.
Everyone on this board is brain circumcised.
Systemically circumcised.
One could call them psychocircumcised.
Fully circumcised.

[Anonymous No.15270768]

>>15270743

[Anonymous No.15271700]

>>15266729
I hope so too, but I have yet to actually find a guy irl as redpilled on homebirthing as much as I am.

[Anonymous No.15272503]

>>15271700
>but I have yet to actually find a guy irl as redpilled on homebirthing as much as I am.
Pfft most of us are fine with that, just have a midwife or birthing nurse, whatever they are called, so we don't have to assist that much.

[Anonymous No.15273345]

>>15266145

Don't really care what your stance on it is but...

Infant and child genital mutilation should be equally legal regardless of gender.

[Anonymous No.15273734]

>>15270137
You know that dicks look different when they are erect, right? Why would anyone give a shit if it looks bigger or smaller when flaccid?

[Anonymous No.15273743]

>>15270469
But Ecuador and Brazil are also mutt central but have 15cm+ average sizes.