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/sci/ - Science & Math

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15153833 No.15153833 [Reply] [Original]

To all free will deniers:

Just curious. Let's say I hypnotize you.
Then I state you have free will forever, all of your choices are your own, and there is nothing you can do about it. After you wake up from trance, are you able to deny your own free will and responsibility?

>> No.15153884

>>15153833
I will always deny free will because free will is for trannys and I hate trannys. I know free will doesn't exist because I watch tranny porn all day every day while I masturbate and I know it's not me doing that it's the determinism so I guess I'll have to keep masturbating over trannys every day. Checkmate, tranny

>> No.15153896
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15153896

>>15153833
Free will is NOT REAL! Don't you understand?! Nothing is real. It's all an illusion. My life is meaningless. I will sit in my room staring at a rectangle until unbearable suffering makes me take but a short break before beginning again.

>> No.15153900
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15153900

dennett believes in free will

but denies that you are conscious

YEAH, OKAY

>> No.15153943

>>15153833
Wouldn't they still make choices based on external stimuli though? This is the philosophical equivalent of playing Shahrazad in Magic: the Gathering.

>> No.15153955
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15153955

>>15153943
Wouldn't "they" still make "choices" based on "external" stimuli though?

>> No.15153973

why dont you ask a hypnotist, or state what we assume the effects of the hyposis would be in this thought experiment? would the hypnosis actually give me "free will" or just make me believe? would the effects be gone after i wake up from the trance? just so i know what youre trying to get at

either way, the answer is easy. just like now, my decisions, like that to deny free will, would be determined by some things, but not determined or limited by other things. for example if the effect if the hypnosis are gone, they would not limit my decisions anymore.
an axle in a bearing can rotate "freely" one that is clamped in a vice can not. the axle in a bearing still isnt going to spin around for no reason. does the axle have "free will"?

>> No.15153986

>>15153833
This question and topic is not science or math related. This question hardly matters. It's about the same as asking if we live in the matrix, a dream, a simulation, and so on. I wish 4cancer had a philosophy board. /pol/ wasn't made for /phil/.

>> No.15154152

>>15153833
what's actually the difference between "making a choice" ala free will and "arriving at a decision" ala unfree determinism?

>> No.15154155

>>15153884
Based.

>> No.15154264

>>15153900
Dennett does not believed in free will. The so called "compatibilism" is determinism.

>> No.15154786

>>15153943
In a behaviorism way? I guess they would.
What if the hypnotist gave them free choice over the stimulus with a neutral preference either way? Would they feel normally or experience a change in feeling?
>>15153986
Yes it is. You can involve game theory or bring in another decision making theory as a counter argument I suppose
>>15154152
I don't know, that's why I asked

>> No.15155165

>>15153833
What are you even saying?
That convincing someone they have free will then means they have free will?
Or are you saying that if you somehow make someone behave in a way that they have free will that they would have free will?
For the latter that would only be possible if free will existed in the first place.

>> No.15155194

How does that hypnosis affect anything at all?

>> No.15155213

>>15153833
No I guess I am not

>> No.15155231

>>15155165
This. What is OP’s argument here? Supposing you fully and successfully hypnotize someone, they will believe the thing that they have been hypnotized to believe. Not sure what this has anything to do with free will.
If the implication is “then free will must be true!”, then why would belief in free will ever make it true?

>> No.15155258

>>15153833
>Then I state you have free will forever, all of your choices are your own, and there is nothing you can do about it.
Will the choice to defy gravity actually be my own or will that and many other things still be dictated by physical mechanics and circumstances outside of my control and knowledge that I have no choice over?

>> No.15155290

>>15153884
This but unironically

>> No.15155492

Human free will is being ACCURATELY simulated by a self conscious computer that is literally without limit on its computational ability.
If you have free will you can literally pretend not to forever. That is super important...

>> No.15155673

>>15153833
alright so free will exists or doesn't exist why do you care literally why does anybody argue about this it doesn't make any sense it's like ok so if free will didn't exist then you can't take responsibility for your own actions because they're not your own sure but if it doesn't exist then theres no such thing as an immoral act and so unjustly making people take responsibility for their own actions just doesn't make any sense since theres no 'unjust' so if free will doesn't exist the court system is still fine and it's like that with everything and if free will does exist then all that stuff is good so just act as if free will does exist insofar as your lack of free will makes that possible and you're not at risk of being bad if it happens to exist and you're definitely not anything if it doesn't exist because if it doesn't you have no more moral culpability for anything than a rock hitting another rock should say sorry for chipping it