/sci/ - Science & Math

>the scientists behind this paper
There are no "scientists" behind the theory of climate change, as climatologists do not use the scientific method.

>>9962116
Care to elaborate?

>>9962104
warmer propaganda aiming at installing a global totalitarian government and destroying western civilization

>>9962104
>Collective human action is required to steer the Earth System away from a potential threshold and stabilize it in a habitable interglacial-like state. Such action entails stewardship of the entire Earth System—biosphere, climate, and societies—and could include decarbonization of the global economy, enhancement of biosphere carbon sinks, behavioral changes, technological innovations, new governance arrangements, and transformed social values.

>oh yeah goy..guys totally not communism and totallitarian government that is based solely on our hatred for european civilization

>>9962129
collective action is required for successful environmental protection
there's a difference between collectivism and communism.

>>9962123
This. But global warming is also real. The neoliberal """"elite"""" are shooting themselves in the foot by trying to propagandaize an existential threat, even if they have the option to go insane in underground bunkers.

>>9962150
We could easily solve all this by implementing some tech, but actually fixing problems would mean there’s no longer a reason to vote for thwm so we can’t have that!

>>9962185
If by tech you mean stop doing things and control emissions then yes
you can't just build something to magically solve things

>>9962194
Cutting off the main force driving global warming, the Sun, is trivially easy.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

We can get it to where it needs to be with this.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_Dragon_(rocket)

If the American people would be willing to do something take the American military's R&D budget for a year and put it towards that, you could buy humanity a lot of time without any of the cynical bullshit like the Paris Agreement. Not saying it's the end all to "solving" global warming, but it's a start.

>>9962223
how do you feel about space debris?

>>9962223
>is trivially easy
that's a criminal understatement

>>9962123
damn those pesky underfunded scientists and their tricks

Big question how do we destroy exploitative parasitic religions?

>>9962223
The sun doesn't *drive* global warming, you would need more and more sunlight blocked to get the same amount of cooling, since CO2 concentration is driving warming. And less sunlight means less photosynthesis and doesn't do anything about ocean acidification. Horrible "solution."

>>9962104
pnas is a joke. the paper doesnt account for extinction level events other than runaway global warming

>>9963073
they aren't relevant to the issue on hand, runaway global warming has been responsible for the majority of global extinctions.

>>9962104
Decarbonization, or at least significant reduction in emissions, is entirely possible. All that's lacking is the will to do it.

It's also possible to use both natural and artificial means to remove CO2 from the atmosphere, and if we use those in tandem with emissions reductions we should be able to return atmospheric carbon to preindustrial levels.

Now, whether we do that before the positive feedback loops kick in is another question.

>>9962117
Not really

Worth noting that Russia and China stand to gain from global warming, I've been wondering where all these climate change denying shills come from and I'd wager the former. I don't really give a fuck tho in complete honesty as my country stands to gain from global warming too

>>9963129
How does this solve anything. You just keep throwing around composite words as if anyone knows what the fuck you are talking about, and then you say these are the solutions. Have you ever done anything science in your life? Research, not being told what to do. 99% of what you initially hypothesiz turns out to be wrong, unless you are working with well known experiments, substances, or logic. This is how I know you are some faggot brainlet who was born to feel. I bet you even Reddit you absolute embarrassment of an attempt at big picture thinking.

This planet will perish, that is a guarantee. The solution is to become spaceborne. End of story.

>>9962117
>Care to elaborate?
Which part do you not understand?

>>9962116
please kys
>>9962123
>global warming is the illuminati
this is how denialtards "reason"
>>9962104
they're right, it's already very bad and almost everyone is seriously underestimating the consequences of anything less than drastic action

>>9962116
>scientific method

>>9963205
I'm ignorant of the field, I'd like to know more abut why or how climatologists don't follow the scientific method.

>>9963178
I think you need to calm down, friend.

>>9962129
>implying europe didnt grow its own totalitarians

>>9962116
>>9962123
obviously the jews don't want you to sell out your country's land and environmental well being for corporate shekels

>>9963324
Im going to add this one to my 'consumer' collection. Thank you.

>>9962104
Wow! What texture pack is that OP?

Numerological anxiety about the year 2000 and Al Gore's campaign are the only reasons why climate change is a mainstream idea.

>>9963872
that and all the unprecedented heat waves and weather events we keep getting.

>>9963872
or um you know look at >>9963215 and realize not everything is a political conspiracy and sometimes you're wrong

>>9963888
Oh you mean the ones that only "started happening " after agw became mainstream? The pure and untainted media loves to report both cold waves and heat waves when they occur, right? Oh wait no they will never report cold waves because it doesn't fit the narrative. It just is very convenient to blame all the things we can't control (ie weather) on the agw boegyman and get paid to do so.

>>9963927
you dont have to believe the jooesh medier, just look at a map of the planet with its temperature changes
>b-but we cant trust those librul (((scientists))) either

>>9963927
The ones that started happening after we beached critical thresholds in atmospheric co2, yes.

>>9963931
>just look at a map of the planet with its temperature changes
the one with data collected from stations in the way of airplane exhaust or the ones that got manually set to register 2° flat higher than what it was being collected by the instruments?

>>9963937
I must have imagined all those coral reefs just up and dying.

>>9963940
Must have not understood that coral reefs have predators too, which are increased in numbers due to nitrates in the water.
That has nothing to do with climate change and all to do with intensive farming and sea pollution

>>9963428
SmegaMan's 64-bit textures plus Dark Raiden's shaders set on the lush template.

If it doesn't mention geoengineering, it's not worth reading. Sulphate aerosols, iron oxide in the oceans... Geoengineering is the ONLY solution to global warming, since we cant tolerate high temperatures and hence need to remove CO2 or lower temperature. Simply lowering the rate of increase won't cut it, if the doomsday deadly spiral effects are real.

For some reason, people in these threads seem to get really butthurt when anything other than radical decarbonisation is proposed despite the fact that it obviously won't happen on a global level soon enough and can't achieve the same cooling effect geoengineering can (or any cooling desu).

>>9963944
warm seas play a roll but also sunscreen

>>9963966
This here. There are numerous geoengineering methods that could blunt the impact of global warming, allowing humanity to transition away from fossil fuels at leisurely pace while not stifling economic growth. And once CO2 production has been diminished to a sufficiently low level, stuff like the iron seeding can pull the excess CO2 out of the atmosphere fairly quickly, so the other methods can be rolled back.

The marine cloud brightening looks particularly interesting. The price estimate is quite low, as little as $9 billion a year to stop the estimated heating effect over the next century. It uses only benign sea salt to cause its effects, and is easily reversible.

Something else to consider is that cutting back CO2 production by the amounts needed to actually be useful requires large scale international cooperation over decades long time scales, something that humans are just bad at. Especially with those pesky elections changing who is running things all the time. Many of the geoengineering projects could be done unilaterally by a single nation. Even Indonesia or Brazil could afford the cloud brightening method I mentioned above.

>>9964066
So its all about "not stifling economic growth"? Then what about all the other problems besides climate change that are caused by economic growth - like top soil runoff, deforestation, non carbon pollution, loss of biodiversity, and overpopulation?

>>9964066
almost forgot ocean acidification.

>>9964066
>There are numerous geoengineering methods that could blunt the impact of global warming

If you want this to happen (and I agree it needs to) you need to find some way to present it as allowing the advancement of some major unrelated political agenda. That's how decarbonization came to be the dominant meme.

>>9964066
>Many of the geoengineering projects could be done unilaterally by a single nation.

But certain practical issues arise if that starts to happen. You get into "Who sets the thermostat?" issues, as the ideal balance sought by one country might not be the ideal balance for some other. The ideal global "set point" for folks living in Sweden might not resemble that for somebody living in Dubai.

ANy process with global impact will create some negative side effects somewhere, and those who would be asked to accept them can, as ou point out, easily afford to fight back with their own geoengineering techniques.

>>9964066
>numerous geoengineering
>transition away from fossil fuels at leisurely pace while not stifling economic growth
>pesky elections changing who is running things

wow ... baka
truly the greasiest scum always rises to the top ...

>>9963937
>the one with data collected from stations in the way of airplane exhaust or the ones that got manually set to register 2° flat higher than what it was being collected by the instruments?
even if all of that were true for every single instrument, you'd still be able to see if the temperature is changing or not :^)

>>9964134
Do you have any actual arguments against these statements, or do you have nothing but name calling? Various geoengineering methods that can plausibly reduce the the impact of global warming, at a cost that won't hurt people's quality of life and/or economic growth do exist. Reducing co2 emissions by the necessary amount do require stable government policy over the course of decades; if people don't like the fuel taxes, job losses in certain industries, and so on these policies require, they may very well elect new politicians to remove those policies. And worse, it requires other major countries have the same stability in policy as well.

If two politicians are running, and the first wants to raise fuel taxes by a dollar a gallon to fight a portion of global warming, while the second promises to stop all global warming* (and of course says nothing about ocean acidification or other issues) with a bunch of cloud boats, paid for by taking welfare away from immigrants, well who do you think the guy driving this truck is going to vote for? Remember his vote counts as much as yours.

>>9964216
Who am i supposed to vote if i want to speed up global warming?

>>9964102
>>9964105
To be fair, at least a portion of those can also be helped by some of the geoengineering methods. Biochar production & afforestation programs will help with topsoil quality, deforestation, and some of the biodiversity loss issues, for example. And iron seeding and creating artificial up wells would reduce ocean acidification. Plenty of these proposals would be worth considering even if someone invented a Mr. Fusion & cutting co2 emissions became trivial.

>>9964121
That is definitely something to be concerned about (and could make for a cool scifi book; some tropical country's cloud ships are sinking, and the dashing hero has to figure out if it is Russian subs doing cheeki-breeki stuff, or if they are just the patsies. ) Hell, the Iranians are already claiming Israel is doing some climate modifications that is effecting them.

Of course, not doing anything to stop global warming could easily lead to conflicts related to food & water shortages and the population movements that follow. Likewise, enforcing the co2 emissions reductions needed on a worldwide basis could also stoke conflicts as well. If one or more major countries decides to cheat on the goals, and then gets slapped with tariffs or embargoes, well plenty of wars have started over that sort of thing.

>>9964216
>>9964231
>Just another eternal optimist can kicker spouting the "solutions for everything" mantra unwilling to face the truth the infinite growth on a finite planet is impossible

Your geoengineering "solutions" will only make matters worse in the long run. You and the guy driving that truck are no different - two victims of cognitive dissonance, totally unwilling to accept that the current model of "economic/population growth and any cost" is wholly unsustainable. Humanity has really 0 chance of survival if it cannot deal with absolute lunatics like you and the guy driving that truck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O133ppiVnWY

Why is a higher temperature bad exactly? Other than real estate developers possibly losing some beach front property in a hundred years.

>>9964884
I'm sure everyone in this thread that takes global warming seriously knows that current economic models are going to have to change significantly in the future. We are probably going to have to stop lending money at interest, for example.

But in the near-term we need to start making a meaningful dent in atmospheric carbon, and that may take some drastic measures.

>>9962104
>pnas.org
>penis

>>9966269
>I'm in highschool and have never read a real journal before

>>9963321
Not that anon but check this out for a decent intro

>>9962104
Here's my theory:
Climate change is real, but it's way past the point of no return already.
From here, it's only about suffering the consequences and trying to mitigate them.
No amount of 'green economy' will change that.

>>9966610
>4chan post
>Intro to climatology

Off yourself brainlet

>>9963966
Bullshit. Geoengineering approaches are no substitute for reducing consumption and eventually abolishing fossil fuel usage. All avenues of attack should be used to address the problem, but geoengineering has unknown and potentially harmful effects. Sulphate aerosols would increase acid rain significantly, for instance.

>>9967080
The only risk-free forms of geoengineering, IMO, are things that actively remove carbon from the atmosphere, since that isn't fucking with the planet more, it's just unfucking what's already been fucked with. In theory, at least.

I'm intrigued by ocean iron fertilization, it seems to be something which could rapidly remove atmospheric carbon.

YOU CAN SOLVE IT BY REDUCING THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE

ITS THE SIMPLEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE SOLUTION

>>9968178

Yes. Its as simple as that. Its the elephant in the room.

Any rational educated person presented with the facts will agree with you. Trouble is they are in the minority. A very small minority

They hold no, or insignificant, political, social, economic or legislative power. They hold no means to enforce the one solution that is so desperately needed: Population control.

Not just population control on a regional scale, but on a global scale.

There are fools are there that will actually deny this. Yes, I know its incredulous, but its true, they will deny it, staring you straight in the eye, fiddling while Rome falls in flames. The majority would rather bury their heads in the sand and ignore it.

That is why there is no hope of recovery. There is no retreat from the tipping point. That is why we are surely, slowly but irreversibly, marching towards the tipping point. If we haven't already passed it already.

All we can do at this point is try and ensure the preservation of knowledge and hope the survivors, in whatever form they may take in the next 10,000 to 10 million years, will perhaps be able to benefit from understanding our mistakes.

Excavating a mine on the moon to store our knowledge would be the best hope, but I fear our species are too selfish to even consider doing that. So we will probably have to resort to the best efforts we can make on Earth.

>>9963215
please kys. And fuck off with that propaganda graph. the adjustment "reference network" is pathetic excuse for ludicrous adjustments and serves no purpose in scientific discourse.

https://realclimatescience.com/2018/03/noaa-data-tampering-approaching-2-5-degrees/
The raw data is all there, do the comparisons yourself.

>>9968222
>Excavating a mine on the moon to store our knowledge would be the best hope
Well that's pretty stupid.
There's a high change any future civilization that would be able to go to the Moon would most likely be going down the same road as we are, and it might be too late for them too, by the time they access it.
>Congratulation, you're fucked! here's what you could have done differently...

>>9968605

That doesn't preclude having repositories on Earth as well. But moon based are more likely to survive intact than a repository on Earth, furthermore its impact on a future civilization would be far more pronounced and indisputable.

>>9968233
>linking this denialist junkyard run by a 90 IQ boomer
Please, none of his graphs even resemble the prevailing mean surface temperature graphs. The very first plot shows "adjustments" where there is some intersection point in the 1990s, and all adjustments increase after the point and decrease before the point. This is a consistent pattern he shows across multiple pages accusing the institutions with the data of fraud. And it isn't even true about the adjustments. Generally, the mean surface average is not adjusted significantly from the raw average after 1970ish due to improved technology, and yet here is still some guy claiming that the adjustments show this intersection point pattern and "obvious" manipulation. It's actually a retarded argument if you bother to look any closer.

We'll be long extinct due to other factors that no one gives a shit about because they are too busy virtue signalling and trading carbon credits before we die from global warming. Obviously you can't dump infinite amounts of CO2 onto the atmosphere but there are far more pressing issues such as micro and macro plastics, overfishing and aquifer depletion.

>>9969432

This dude is onto it. Climate change is just another nail in the coffin.

We soil scientists have been warning people about soil degradation for fucking decades. Nobody listens to us to any significant extent. Soils aren't sexy enough. Ironically those who do are usually those least at risk.

Let me tell you, on a global scale, the soils are FUCKED. They are on life-support. And what gets me is NOBODY acknowledges this or understands the implications. Jesus H fucking Christ, it almost makes me want to laugh at the sheer insanity of it all, we are sitting on a time bomb and pretending it isn't there. No amount of technology is ever going to replace the nutrients in the soil. Dumping more fertilizer on it just isn't sustainable and causes a whole host of run on problems down the track.

Want to know why? Because it takes FUCKING MILLIONS of years to make soil! Forget the bullshit meme shortcuts,not going to happen.

For most of the world the soils have been raped and fucked over century after century, a process which has only accelerated over time years, and now the fucking chickens are beginning to come home to roost.

We are fucked. Well and truly fucked. Fucked in as like a gigantic dildo aimed up the anal passage of mankind, just starting to work its way in. Ow! Ow! ...Oh I am sorry, that hurts? That is just the very tip my friend! It's not even in yet! You have got inch after glorious inch of ever increasing girth to go! Then with the other environmental degradation going on, the water quality, the micro plastics, the species loss, climate change, etc, etc, the thrusting really begins!

A few people know the shit is going to hit the fan, and so do some of their rich friends. Why do you think they are quietly buying up property in bumfuck nowhere places like New Zealand? Stable government, still mostly white, infrastructure, and the country is too geologically young and under populated to have been environmentally shafted beyond full blown AIDS yet.

>>9970261
>Why do you think they are quietly buying up property in bumfuck nowhere places like New Zealand
They aren't really being quiet about it if it's making headline news in the Guardian and every other pop-sci website. And that has a lot more to do with silicon valley libertarian weirdness and paranoia than direct existential threats like climate change and soil degradation.

I've seen you around before, and you exaggerate the hell out of the problem with soil depletion to make it (and yourself) sound more important than it is. We have a lot of techniques for improving soil that have nothing to do with fertilizer, from crop diversification to agro-forestry and just plain old reforestation. If the soil quality was as bad as you claim we wouldn't be able to convert old farming land back to wilderness but we can and we are. You're the modern form of the peak oil loonies that were running around ten years ago.

The only major problems are global warming and ocean acidification, every other problem can and is being managed.

>>9970515
>We have a lot of techniques for improving soil that have nothing to do with fertilizer, from crop diversification to agro-forestry and just plain old reforestation.
no offense but I don't think you know what you're talking about...

>>9970515
>The only major problems are global warming
Global warming is only a problem for Third World, this year we had fruit crops higher by 60% and our construction industry can work longer due to lack of winter.

>>9970515


>My backyard is okay.
>I am alright jack.

Go back to school.

>>9970517
There's no greater sign of ignorance than ellipses.

>>9970530
Show me where its a problem approaching apocalyptic proportions. And do note: peak phosphorous is a fucking meme. We have supplies enough for hundreds of years.

>>9968233
Tony Heller is fucking retarded. He claims to show adjustments to US temperature but instead shows average station temperature without regard to the distribution of coverage. This tells us nothing about how US temperature trends have been affected by adjustments since temperature is averaged over space, not over stations. The worst part is that this mistake was pointed out to Tony by his fellow deniers years ago, meaning he is now willfully lying to his naive readers. He also knows that showing the global data would show adjustments cooling the trend, destroying his argument, so he cherrypicks locations like the US and never shows NOAA's global data. But you know all this too, you're just as delusional and dishonest.

>>9970524
>its another crops are the only thing global warming affects episode

>>9970533
>peak phosphorous is a fucking meme. We have supplies enough for hundreds of years.
now you're saying something different. You just changed your story. So I'm still inclined to be skeptical about everything you say.

>>9970556
Make your argument for why soil degradation is going to kill us all in short time instead of waxing over metaphorical anal devastation or fuck off.

>>9970515
I bet you get invited to a lot of parties.

Not.

Fucking spastic.

>>9962104
>pnas

>>9970547
Thanks to global warming I am also spared a hefty heating bill, cold and don’t have to worry about car accodents in winter

>>9970515
>I have no clue what erosion is or how it happens

>>9970564
I don't have an argument. I simply don't believe you. That's all. And you don't have an argument either, so perhaps you should fuck off.

>>9970960
Rain and wind leading to top soil run off, which can be mitigated by wind banks of various kinds and through foresting rivers as well. It's not an insurmountable challenge that will kill us all.

>>9971042
Yeah, you never did. You're just a hysterical doom peddler looking to swell his e-boner.

>>9971285
Human water and land use changes, as well as tillage, are the causes of topsoil erosion beyond natural factors. Natural erosion is quite obviously not an issue except locally, considering all the topsoil existed for a long time before we got here.

>>9971285
And you're just another bloated fuck, willing to rationalize pretty much anything that feels good, who goes online making excuses to strangers about being a bloated fuck.

>>9971285

>Jim will fix it!

Ignorant fuck

>>9962104
Suck cock you adolescent faggot. If you wanna worry about something worry about your out of control government and the cache of nukes and biological weapons it has control over. You fucking faggot.

>>9972015
And he'll gladly continue this behaviour until you're faced with a life and death situation upon which you have no recourse, and when that happens you'll be forced to suffer, and agonize, until death, and nothing will ever change that.

Enjoy.

>>9972181
If the guy preaching ecological doom is right, it makes no difference how anyone behaves about it.

>>9972179
I'm not American.

>>9972189
>it makes no difference how anyone behaves about it.
That's ridiculous. Every single time some forgoes consumption now or there is lack of population growth, it buys us time. These aren't radical ideas - simply, basic science is the basis for all of this - simply, basic ideas that mainstream economists have ignored (or even outright tried to coverup) for over a century.

>>9963141
t. dog-fucking Canadian

>China stand to gain from global warming
topkek. In what possible way? They'll be among the first to be desertified once shit hits the fan.

>>9963324
>a literal Tumblr-gif response
I really, really hope this is bait.

>>9966610
>>9966649
A post by a Russian no less.
Hmm..

>>9962104
the only viable solution that isn’t completely jnsane is a global depopulation via extreme sterilization and euthanasia campaigns, paneuropean fascist state run by scientific one party dictatorship, technocratic control of human breeding w/hard eugenics and absolutely ruthless prohibitions on carbon, poaching, dumping, venting exhaust into the atmosphere. this is likely to traumatize too many people to work effectively, and we are a species of impotent pacifists so you’ll never see the will necessary to seize power. it could happen organically without a vanguard but highly improbable. This is the only way. We’re absolutely going to see keystone species collapse in the tropics and extreme reduction in living standards on the coasts. Enjoy the fruits of great grandpa’s pillaging friends

>>9972522
Easy there Adolf, it's not like most living humans will ever achieve the high living standards and climatic impact of the West.

>>9964891
Much of US cost (especially Florida) is barely above sea level. So even a small rise may cost us large coastal areas. Higher tides and stronger more frequent hurricanes are already a a problem right now. Warming means tropical diseases move north and no wall can stop it. It also mean more forest fires. Large agricultural areas in Europe and North America could become steppe.