/sci/ - Science & Math

Yes they do, it's frequently used in both art and forensic medicine.

>>9933856
Yes, of course.
Do you really look at a nigs head, see that it's shaped completely different than yours, and think
>we have the same shaped head

>>9933858
>>9933867
Yeah man, I saw it in Django Unchained so it must be true XD

>>9933856
Every human in existence has a different skull.

>>9933881

Yeah it's just a myth that police officers send unidentifiable remains to anthropologists to find out what race and gender the person was. That's all one big myth.

>>9933903
Yeah well my dad works at Nintendo and he's going to ban you on Xbox live.

>>9933881

Will you cry when phrenology makes its inevitable return?

>>9933856
Yes. Gould was a dirty fucking liar and he knew exactly what he was doing the whole goddamn time.

Samuel Morton was right and did nothing wrong.

>>9934144
Gould was based, especially in Ontogeny and Phylogeny. Morton was racist hack. Im sick of seeing you racists psueds who know fuck all about systematics disparage great scientists.

>>9934162
Perish, and when you go to hell say hi to Gould for me, he's seated next to Judas Iscariot, Brutus, and Cassius in the devil’s mouth at the center of hell, according to his own words.

http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001071

>We investigated these questions by remeasuring Morton's skulls and reexamining both Morton's and Gould's analyses. Our results resolve this historical controversy, demonstrating that Morton did not manipulate data to support his preconceptions, contra Gould. In fact, the Morton case provides an example of how the scientific method can shield results from cultural biases.
>I just didn’t trust Gould. … I had the feeling that his ideological stance was supreme. When the 1996 version of ‘The Mismeasure of Man’ came and he never even bothered to mention [an earlier study by a University of Pennsylvania undergraduate, John S. Michael] I just felt he was a charlatan.

how in the actual fuck can you doubt the races have different skull and bone structure when the differences are readily expressed in the flesh?

>>9934184
If we were talking about literally any other animal this wouldn't be even a little bit controversial.

>>9934187
Its not controversial. The idea that then from that you can determine cognitive abilities is bullshit.

>>9934194
cranial volume is literally the only aspect of human physiology that has been subjected to evolutionary pressure for the last three million years

daily reminder homo erectus is indistinguishable from modern man from the neck down

>>9934194
>size and shape of the brain is different between human races
>brain morphology differences have literally no impact on function tho
Do you people even fucking hear yourselves.

>>9934196
>>9934202
Yes thats a good hypothesis. But theres no experimental evidence for it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0010945218301436

>>9934229
>what is the IQ gap

>>9934233
Something completely different. You know just because phrenology is bullshit that doesn't mean all racial theoried fall apart right? The IQ gap is controversial, and filled with gray areas, but that doesnt mean you are going to find your answer in a completely debunked theory. So if you at least want to appear you have solid arguments, you shoud stick with what actually has a minimum chance you /pol/dsit fuckwit.

>>9934238
phrenology isn't craniometry/craniology, brainlet

>>9934238
Nobody was arguing for phrenology lol, I just think it's pretty obvious that differences in actual brain morphology will translate to some differences in function.

>>9934180
>mentally ill avatar poster
>hell, the devil
Yup. Found the godtard, probably a creationist too. I dont know dick about Morton apart from the wikipedia skim and the fact that he was a lame old geyser that liked to measure skulls and got nae nae'd on by Based Gould. Ontogeny and phylogeny is epic and Gould is a good scientist and historian, based on that work.

>>9934241
Yes, and craniology has mainly anthropological and criminal applicationa with no reference whatever to brain function
>>9934243
>it's pretty obvious
That's not how the scientific method works pal. Back to middle school.

>>9934250
Lol ok brainlet go back to jerking it to your academic fraud friends. I bet you like Lewontin too.

>>9934252
I meant "pretty obvious from the data" but why understand an implication when you can just play semantics lol

>>9934260
What data?
>lol
Yea lol XD

>>9934252
>Yes, and craniology has mainly anthropological and criminal applicationa with no reference whatever to brain function
cranial capacity is a good metric to gauge intelligence, both in terms of raw volume and when you control for overall body mass (encephalization quotient)

the disparities in iq and the disparities in cranial capacity correlate in a way exactly as we would expect, literally the entirety of human evolution going all the way back to homo erectus revolves around cranial capacity and cranio morphology

it really is this open and shut, and the fact that Gould had to fudge his numbers when auditing Morton's skull collection is especially damning

>>9934252
But brain volume does predict IQ.
And cranial capacity predicts brain volume.

>>9934260
i do like lewontin.
im sorry that you dont like it when people who know what they are talking about call out racist psuedoscience for the garbage it is

>>9934260
>why understand an implication when you can just play semantics
irredeemable psuedery right here.

>>9934263
Morton, Harvey et al 1994, Jones et al 1994, Chee et al 2010, Tang et al 2010, Beals 1984, Rushton & Ankney 2009, and Lewis et al 2011, to name a few.

They all found pretty much the same thing- whites have larger brains than blacks, and whites have larger brains than east asians (but east asian brains are wider and taller, while white ones are longer).

See pic related for more. Also this article links all those studies and more, I'm not copy-pasting each of them individually here
http://thealternativehypothesis.org/index.php/2016/04/15/brain-size-race-and-iq/

>>9933856
of course they do retard, even in betwenn the same "race". That doesnt mean races dont exist, o the contrary certain shapes are only found in certain races

>>9933867
this but with indios/mestizos
when i see a dyed hair woman from behind i can tel 100% times the race even if i am not able to see anything but the skull with the same colour and same straight hair

>>9934269
>>9934294
>>9934266
I have to accept this. I thought phrenology accounted for intelligence changes. But from what I see it seems there is shit that suggest how can brain volume predict IQ . Though it seems a lot has to do with the distribution also, and total volume can hide important aspects.

>>9933856
Yes, but Hegel btfo'd phrenology 200 years ago so it is irrelevant

>>9934381
>phrenology
why do brainlets always conflate phrenology with craniology and craniometry?

>>9934294
>Asian Males have 1337-gram brains
I guess that explains a few things. Leet asian hacker master race.
But I'm surprised at the suggestion that whites have larger brains than east asians, I've always heard that asians have slightly larger brains.
E.g. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/2054126/why-do-asians-have-bigger-brains-europeans-or-africans

>>9934383
I wonder the same thing. It reminds me of the thing where redditors and other pseuds with 110 IQs will see a concept that reminds them of some factoid they're aware of, and they'll leap to tell everyone about it, presumably under the impression that they're making a valuable contribution to the discussion.
>Skull measuring - wait, I read about that! That's called phrenology, and it's pseudo-science. Time to set the record straight...

>>9934294
Severely autistic people have significantly more brain mass than anyone on the graph and they have 40 IQ on average.

>>9934194
Except that you can.

>>9933856
Do different races really look different or is it a hoax?

Also, you're interpreting the picture wrong. The skulls represent single individuals. They are not composites of a racial average.

If these retards spent as much time studying as they do defending lesser people, they would be much better off

>>9933856
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_size#/media/File:Brain_Size_Map.png

>>9934252
>brings up anthropology
What a joke this discipline is. Follow the logical progression with me.

White man studies finches
White man notices differences in rigorisouly studied finches
White man concocts all accumulated evidence into the theory of evolution
>Evolution gains scientific ground

Meanwhile in an anthropology class:
Spic professor is reciting the discoveries of many dead white men
Class discussion is normal conversation one can have without paying money for a shill of a class
The discussion becomes interesting; problems of society are addressed
Fingers point at the dominant "white culture"
I'm shocked at the absolute level of stupidity that can be reached by those studying the humanities.

Even STEM is becoming tainted by retards who want to use "muh datas" as a way to "influence public opinion". The data, if presented in the correct way reveals relevant truths. People can cry and kick their feet all they want but it doesn't change reality.

Then you get this surgance of depression and mental illness because people become so incredibly proficient at lying to themselves despite being aware of the truth. We live in a sick globalized society.

That's all I learned from anthropology.

http://www.jpsr.pharmainfo.in/Documents/Volumes/Vol6Issue11/jpsr06111407.pdf

Cranial morphology Won't be able to determine the specific race, but it narrows the options of what race the skull is. A forensic team can find a skull and determine that the skull may be from a person of African descent or European descent, but it won't tell you to what degree. A skull could be from someone of mixed racial background, like a person from Bermuda. You also may find a skull of a person of single race descent that has a skull with characteristics associated with a different race.

We just know that in a broader sense, there are three types of skull a person can have, Caucasoid, Mongoloid and Negroid. Each differ quite a bit within each group, but these are generally accepted by the forensics field for racial determination using a skull.

>>9936247
Give this anon a fucking medal

>>9936569
Well, if anthropology is applied cognitive dissidence, then by all means, psychologists should be studying it hahaha

>>9936578
This is not a terrible idea.

>>9934548
My modern watch has more processing power than my clunky Hewlett Packard desktop from 20 years ago, but my modern phone has more processing power than my watch. Size absolutely matters when you're comparing roughly equal entities at the same point in time on a timeline. The architecture of my watch and phone from the same company are roughly equal, implementing modern designs, but one is much larger and obviously much more capable.

Your autism example is analogous to a larger design but an inferior architecture.

Races are roughly "equal" entities that supposedly exist at the same point on a timeline. Brain volume should matter, there's no valid reason it should not. If brain volume makes no difference then that means white people are adaptationally defective for wasting resources on a larger brain that produces no benefit. The brain uses up to 20% of the body's daily energy requirements. Does an 8% difference in weight sound like it doesn't matter and was just an aimless mistake? Do we ever see that anywhere else in nature? An 8% difference in resource usage that causes no apparent difference in an organ's primary function for the same size and sex organism is seen nowhere else to my knowledge because it makes absolutely no sense.

>>9936969

Not him but you are forgetting that Brains are also influenced by the need for thermal regulation. It is feasible that the volume of the brain can increase without the neural wiring (architecture) being optimize for the larger size. If the increase in volume helps the organism adapt for colder climates then the benefit is produce. There is no need for nature/evolution to justify an increase of cognitive function along with the extra volume gained.

Now you may see a slight overall net increase in "raw" cognitive function due to larger volume but the architecture can easily still be sub-optimal in comparison. An example of this actually shows with Inuit populations in North America. Where their cranial/brain volume is larger to help with extreme cold. But their IQ is in the low 90's meaning that their head brain size is sub-optimal to whites in terms of cognition despite being larger.

To go back to your watch/phone comparison. Two key factors that's been overlook lies in the power consumption and thermal management both relative to size. You are right about the watch and desktop comparison. But that is due to more efficient/ optimized architecture design on smaller scales. What you are observing between your watch and phone is a variation of the same bottleneck that effects both portable devices. Your phone's larger size allows for more power consumption/ thermal management potential. But if your watch was designed to disregard it's niche for portability/comfort on the wrist and have the same consumption/ management as the phone (doesn't need to change size) it would be able compete on roughly equal footing. However it would need help with heat dissipation.

In both cases thermal regulation/management plays a role in influencing processing power. Size and volume does matter but that doesn't mean the niche to which it is born from will result in a significant processing performance. Since the niche itself also matters and can be an inhibitor.

>>9933856
Yes, although it was crazier back in the day.

http://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/news/2018/july/the-way-we-think-about-the-first-modern-humans-in-africa.html

I should note that it's not always clean cut.

>>9933903
no one uses 'race' as a metric you retard, only people that do are americans on identification, but not anything else.

>>9933889
>contributes nothing

>>9937177
Everybody is unique

>>9936526
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_size#/media/File:Brain_Size_Map.png
Wow! How did that escape censure?

>>9933856
Should there not be some differences in the Supraorbital foramen?

>>9933856
lads, why do i have an extreme mongoloid skull if im only 1/3 mongoloid? theres like nothing behind me ears. looks like sofyan from redline reviews.

>>9933856
An anthropology student was kicked out of his sociology classroom for pointing that out.

Fox had a television show where a forensic anthropologist who could dig up a skull, and say that it belonged to a Caucasian female over the age of 25.

There are differences that are more than skin deep.

>>9937123
>Brains are also influenced by the need for thermal regulation. It is feasible that the volume of the brain can increase without the neural wiring (architecture) being optimize for the larger size.

Interesting correlation but it crosses over the exact same gradient used to explain the volume-iq correlation theory. The (generally speaking) farther away from the equator one gets the more one would benefit from increased intelligence which might happen due to a larger-volume brain, as the theory goes, but would also simultaneously benefit from better thermal insulation; a prime opportunity for a type of correlational false positive.

I went with an 8% change in mass, not sure the corresponding volume difference, but 8% change in volume does not make that much difference in heat transfer due to and engineering concept known as the square cube law. For 8% change in volume the surface area does not change much, and that's mostly what affects thermal regulation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square%E2%80%93cube_law#Mass_and_heat_transfer

I found a pic of average cranial volume on a map. It's loosely based on climate but the gradient is fairly off from yearly average temperatures, with north asia being diagonal and africa being bizarrely inconsistent. I'll post a climate heat map too for comparison.

Your inuit example is a good point, as is the whole thermal regulation idea. However, they could be a unique case since, to my knowledge, they're the only indigenous population that has settled in arctic conditions. They naturally would be more of an outlier that could more-quickly develop new traits.

>>9938744
[oops the comment too long message was off screen sorry, but here's the heatmap anyway]

There's a lot of good thoughts regarding the idea cranial volume is a function of environment temperature but I'm not convinced yet. And again what I'm criticizing also overlaps the reasoning for the other alleged brain volume increase due to pressure for more intelligence: climate. Though I'm not sure if environment pressures really need to exist for the progression of intelligence because that trait seems to do well no matter what environment you're in. I've always thought the intelligence differences were more of a fluke and not because white people lived in colder climates.

>>9933856
No, this sort of pseudoscience is only peddled by racists with a covert agenda to influence social policy.

>>/pol

>>9938457
why do asians have the most /fa/ skulls

>>9933856
>Do different races really have different skulls
Yes, you absolute retard.

>>9938457
>rightmost image with text
Headline is "African, female" while the text "suggests African-American ancestry". So how can you distinguish between African and African-American?

>>9938744
>>9938745
Much of Northern Europe has the same climate yet GB and IE is indicated with a lower brain volume.

North America has a lot of variation in spite of what I thought had a highly mobile population geographically speaking.

India had a less mobile population (caste system) and shows a gradient in volume yet all in the same climate.

Then we have two prominent anomalies, Egypt and South Sudan.

All in all it seems there is something more going on.

>>9933856
I recognise that phenotype

>>9934194

YOU CAN HOLY SHIT WHY DOYU PEOPLE ALWAYS DENY REALITY WHEN ITS RIGHT IN YOUR FUCKING FACE RREEEEEEEEEE

>>9934548

So?

>>9939005

He might not be able to answer that. The flaw with that pic is African Skull formation wouldn't be that clear cut. Besides African Americans you have North Africans, East Africans, West/Central/South Africans and Madagascar located Africans who would all have differences due to varying degrees of admixture.

>>9933856
If your definition of each race includes the shape of skulls then yes.

>>9936969
How can you possibly think to write the first half of this post and then automatically assume that races all have the same 'architecture'. All your arguments are at best inconclusive and yet you seem deadset on being racist

>>9938457
>yfw "Asian, female" has the cute, CUUUTTEEE Owo

>>9940091
i didnt know yellow fever could be this severe

>>9933856
Where is the ASHKENAZI skull? It's the phenotype ASHKENAZI women CRAVE

>>9940251
Image search "boskop man"

>>9938457
>The fucking chin on european female
Yikes.

>>9933856
when a species is geographically isolated for long periods of time they diverge. think anon dont feel

>>9933856
That pretty much depends what you think is a race. Skin color is a similar arbitrary distinction. But there probably is some correlation here

>>9938457
look at that jaw on the asian male, based.

>>9937161
They do if they want to identify a possible victim, you retard. Knowing that the victim was probably black or Asian narrows the search down by a whole lot.