/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9890363
No one assumes anything other than the transexual people themselves. They decide that they want to change their body. Well, if they are consenting adults and have the money they fucking can. It's capitalism bitch. Now get the fuck out of here you communist scum.

teal deer:
people tried to make the brain fit the body (using drugs, therapy, electricity, etc.) for a very long time and it hardly ever worked, so the usual course of action is to make the body fit the brain. it's a lot easier to restructure the breasts and genitals and replace hormones than to rewire the brain.

hearts and kidneys are tinker toys.

>>9890363
Treating gender dysphoria with transition therapy has led to better outcomes than trying to convince people to be cis with CBT and helps people suffering from it contribute more to our society. It's better for everyone to use the most efficacious treatment so that trans people can get back to being functioning cogs in the machine of freedom.

Also, /pol/

>>9890363
If you are able to function independently, you are a sane non-disordered human. Doesn't matter if you claim that your are a unicorn and dress like a tree. You function in society then it's all good.

Trans folk who get all mad about everything and then try to kill themselves or trouble everyone else, they have a disorder. Mental or physical only applies if you have a solution, from a pragmatic perspective.

>>9890385
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism

>>9890380
Breasts are workable, although they don't function the same.

They might be able to get a pseudo-clitoris out of a penis, but the rest of the vagina won't be even close.

>>9890385
>helps people suffering from it contribute more to our society

Yeah, no. Yesterday I was on omegle and met an MtF girl. I told him that even though I was very progressive, I would not fuck a trans person. She got very angry and started showing me pictures of himself naked and modeling. All that motherfucker does is take pictures of her anus and search for someone desperate enough to fuck him. That girl is not productive. All the surgery did was take away the depression for a few months. After he realizes she won't be getting as much dick as he thought (because she has a manly face), it's probably back to the rope for him.

>>9890400
When we be a hyper advanced civilization, I bet we will be able to change sex at a genetic level

because the mind is in the brain, not the body

>>9890400
it's almost like there's a social component to suicidal tendencies and being ostracized and discriminated against can lead to suicide

>>9890363
I would argue that it is more of a social issue rather than a biological issue

>>9890400
>Persons with cancer, after chemotherapy, have considerably higher risk for dying of cancer than the general population.

Anon, you're a moron.

>>9890525
Then you'd be wrong.

>>9890573
>males with the hormone levels of females have brains that look like females.

When they do that exact same study with pre-HRT trannies, you get opposite results.

>>9890581
But they've already done that and got the same results

>>9890373
He says as even children are undergoing hormonal treatment nowadays because their parents want them to become trannies.

>>9890583
source needed

>>9890584
Only 1 in 3,000 people have gender dysphoria from biological causes. It's also been demonstrated that when you force a cis person to try to be opposite sex, even as a very young child, they WILL develop gender dysphoria and want to be the sex they were born as. You cannot force a child to be a tranny, you're literally just making shit up. Stop believing /pol/ boogeymen and find actual problems to care about.

>>9890584
because they have been positively evaluated by a professional that they are transexual or display strong transexual tendencies*

ftfy

>>9890591
google theybies and tell me there is nothing wrong with that

>>9890584
Well, obviously that is going a bit far but it is still legal for parents to not vaccinate their kids, and it is legal for parents to influence kids in general.

It is kinda horrible, but taking away the right of a parent to turn his son trans will infringe on other liberties. We must let this go. The casualties will be minor compared to what would happen if we let daddy government fuck us in the asshole.

>>9890602
>we have to let child abuse go since parents have the right to raise their child in the way they want to

>>9890600
i would say there's nothing wrong with an honest application of that but there is of course a strong political influence on those parents to attempt to raise their children as the opposite sex rather than actually following the concept and letting the children decide.

>>9890363
Assuming you're a man, how would you possibly know what it feels like to be a woman?
Perhaps you could say that various social constructions we concentrate around women fit your personality more, but is that reason enough to cut off your wang?

>>9890611
Considering 99.92% of people are cis, why would you even need to raise a theybie in the first place?

>>9890608
But it's true man. What do you suggest we do? Obviously, in a perfect world, parents would be obligated to vaccinate their kids and accept the gender they were born with, but if we write this into law what are the consequences?

Imagine that in the future there is an actual malicious program that wants to actually pump weird chemicals into your kid and they cite this law to say that you cannot object because it is for the good of the kid or some shit.

Sorry but just because some trannies are doing fucked up shit I won't write off my right to choose and be critical of the government. Fuck you, communist scum.

>>9890600
Explain what's wrong with it. 99% of people raised as 'genderless' will come to the conclusion that they're the gender they were born as and that's fine to them, just like the rest of the world. Unless they are chained up in a basement you simply can't hide them from reality, society, or their own biology. The 0.01% that actually isn't ok with the sex they were born as will be glad they had understanding parents that gave them the freedom to be how they want.

I don't see how that's different from Christians telling their kids all sorts of stupid shit exists like telepathy, magic, supernatural creatures, other planes of existance etc. and most Christians turn out to be decent people anyway. The norm is for parents to pass down stupid beliefs to their children, the vast majority of humans sort themselves out.

>>9890620
>99% of people raised as genderless will come to the conclusion that they're the gender they were born as

Source fucking needed

>>9890617
because it's simply a marketable rebranding of sensible parenting. if you honestly follow the idea you're not really doing anything you wouldn't already be doing.

>>9890618
>what do you suggest we do?
Put child abusers in jail. It's that simple.

>>9890623
Look up David Reimer. He was raised being told by everyone in his life that he was female, and even as a small child knew instinctively that he was a boy and insisted that he was. Gender identity is hard-coded in your brain.

>>9890626
>telling your 5 year old son that he is a they and that when he grows up he will get to choose to be any of the infinite genders out there is just sensible parenting

>>9890629
Well, define child abusers. Are anti-vaxxers going to the clinc too?

>>9890631
>99% of people will do X
>n=1

Thats a marvelous sample size you got there.

>>9890633
Not vaccinating your child is child abuse.

Child abuse is child abuse is child abuse.

>>9890632
why are you strawmanning? i already said that people hijack the concept to follow their ideology.

you can refer to your daughter as her while still ultimately letting her decide. it's about living, not labels.

>>9890638
Okay, we agree so far.

Imagine that in the future a really malicious government program is implemented. It is supposed to cure or help your children in some way, but really it is just a cover for a government conspiracy in which they want to implant trackers into our kid's bodies. Just as the program is about to be open to the public, various WikiLeaks announces the conspiracy to the world. I decide that I do not want my child to take this new "vaccine" because I trust the source of the leaks. Now, because your law was implemented, I'm going to jail and my kid is going to be raped with chemicals anyway.

Thank you!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/

>males born with female brain structure have gender dysphoria, reverse for females
>males and females with normal brain structure never have dysphoria
>this can be detected in small children well before any hormone therapy has been administered

>>9890642
So then why isn't whether or not an individual is transgender determined by a brain scan?
Would you be okay with such a requirement?

>>9890638
i agree with you, but subjective is subjective is subjective. anti vaxxers obviously dont think its child abuse and think vaccinating is the real child abuse.

>>9890643
It certainly will be in the future

>Would you be okay with such a requirement?
Who the fuck wouldn't?

>>9890647
>Who the fuck wouldn't?
I assume that would depend on the error rate of such scans

>>9890650
It's easy

>mom, dad, I want to be a girl
Ok let's get your brain scanned

>scan says female
Ok, let's get you on female hormones as soon as puberty starts so you avoid having the wrong puberty

>scan says male
Ok, lets wait a few years and see if you still feel that way

>>9890650
what would be an acceptable range for you?

>>9890639
Children are literally just walking retards.

There is a reason why it is illegal to convince a 12 year old into consenting to suck your dick, since they don't have the maturity or intelligence needed to fully comprehend what they are doing.

Teaching your children to ignore biology and choosing their own gender is just as bad as seducing a child into sucking your dick.

>kid thinks he's a tree
>therefore doctors should be able to amputate his arms and limbs and replace them with tree branches
>they should blind and deafen him because trees can't see or hear
>/sci/ thinks this is normal

>>9890656
I don't personally have an opinion one way or another

>>9890647
>timmy the doctor says you are transgender, here is some titty skittles for you
>but I'm happy being a boy
>Sorry Tiffany but your brain scans says differently

>>9890660
1 in 3,000 humans, in every country, race, and culture on planet earth across all of human history wants to be the opposite sex badly enough to feel gender dysphoria. There is no similar group for people who want to be trees. Get the fuck out of here.

>>9890658
>denigrating children
dropped

there's less mean spirited ways of saying that children are less cognitively developed than adults.

also
>Teaching your children to ignore biology and choosing their own gender is just as bad as seducing a child into sucking your dick.
>i already said that people hijack the concept to follow their ideology.
>i already said that people hijack the concept to follow their ideology.
>i already said that people hijack the concept to follow their ideology.

>>9890664
>brain scan says female
>but I like being a boy
Then you are a boy with a female brain structure, have a good life. You don't intervene unless there's an actual problem that needs to be addressed.

Are you on the spectrum?

>>9890670
he identifies as a strawman

>>9890666
You could say the same thing about furfags. Doesn't mean they should start cutting off body parts and attaching paws, tails, etc to themselves.

>>9890666
Correct, but a much larger percentage exhibit body dysmorphia in ways such as anorexia
Should we offer anorexics surgery to make them look even more thin?

>>9890668
Given that 99.2% of humans have no problem with their gender, why introduce a new parenting method of teaching your children to be gender neutral just to comfort the transitional periods of the 0.08% of trannies?

>>9890679
>>9890666
You could also say the same thing about people experiencing hallucinations due to schizophrenia. The treatment isn't to pretend the voices in their head are real.

>>9890684
>if you honestly follow the idea you're not really doing anything you wouldn't already be doing.

>>9890681
>>9890660
If you have delusions about gender you are actually disqualified from being diagnosed with gender dysphoria, that's one of the key criteria.

Sex reassignment surgery is not any more dangerous than any other common cosmetic surgery. You are already infertile from hormone therapy before the procedure, and you have the ability to enjoy sex with your genitals before and after, nothing is lost and comfort and peace of mind is possibly gained.

Personally I don't see what the big deal with is with wanting to cut your limbs off anyway. The amount of people who want to cut their legs off is so ridiculous small, it's a nonissue. And I don't think we should ban people from smoking, drinking, eating mcdonalds, having promiscuous sex etc. It's up to individuals to decide what harm they willing to inflict on themselves. Prosthetic limbs have advantages and will be superior in the future anyway. I thought this was /sci/.

>>9890690
>delusions about gender
Could you give some examples that would qualify you as having delusions as opposed to just believe yourself to be "born in the wrong brain?"
>Sex reassignment surgery is not any more dangerous than any other common cosmetic surgery.
Incorrect
No cosmetic surgery requires you to spend 0.5-2 hours per day for the rest of your life taking care of it to avoid it healing (yes you heard that right. Dilation is the active process of preventing your body from healing) and/or getting infected.

>>9890363
If their body is wrong than I guess we have to disappoint some men. If their brain is wrong then we've got some women to disappoint.

I'm pretty sure their both correct but something caused then to be mismatched

>>9890363
Science doesn't assume #2 or #1, its the humans behind the scenes doing the science that aren't perfectly objective, that's kind of a thing with humans. They're always biased.

>>9890702
Dilating isn't to keep the neo vagina from 'closing up', that does not happen. The point of dilation is to prevent the neo vagina from getting smaller, which would make sex difficult or painful. If you have an active sex life, you actually don't have to dilate at all past the first year, and the frequency and duration of dilating goes down over time. If the neo vagina was a 'wound' just waiting to heal, it would be utterly destroyed during sex, which isn't the case. The actual analogous situation is morning wood and spontaneous erections. If you didn't have those, your penis would shrink over time, spontaneous erections are your body's way of maintaining the size and shape of your penis. When transwomen take hormone therapy, they stop having spontaneous erections, so their penis shrinks over time. Trans porn stars purposefully give themselves erections throughout the day to maintain penis size.

There are plenty of other medical procedures that require maintenance and upkeep after, it's nothing new at all.

>>9890702
Cis women have muscles connected to their vaginal canal that hold everything in place. Trans women don't, so they lose depth and width over time unless they dilate. What's so hard for people to understand about this

>>9890690
>The amount of people who want to cut their legs off is so ridiculous small, it's a nonissue.
The discussion is about very small children.

A person can cut off their limbs at any point in their life and receive the same result of having a cut-off limb, but HRT is a time sensitive process that is most effective before puberty, so its important to discuss whether or not parents should be allowed to consent on their children's behalf for the more effective treatment.

>>9890715
Trans women are not women

>>9890708
My point was that it wasn't comparable to any other cosmetic surgery
I didn't come here to have a semantics argument about the difference between the phrase "closing up" and "getting smaller."

>>9890720
That wasn't a semantic argument. You explicitly said

>Dilation is the active process of preventing your body from healing) and/or getting infected
Which is all completely untrue. Dilation has nothing to do with healing or preventing infection.

>>9890720
your point was attempting to tell a lie

>I didn't come here to have a semantics argument about the difference between the phrase "closing up" and "getting smaller."
because that would be an unwinnable argument for you that would only result in your lie being revealed.

>>9890724
So if you never dilate you wouldn't get an infection? Is that your claim?

>>9890728
>If you have an active sex life, you actually don't have to dilate at all past the first year

>>9890728
Is your claim that dildos and penises have antibacterial properties that prevent infections?

>>9890732
Ok what if you don't have an active sex life ( most trannies that are not hookers fall into this category) and you don't dilate.

What happens?

>>9890732
How about that first year then
Also, what other cosmetic surgery requires 0.5-2 hours of maintenance per day for a year, or even longer assuming a non-active sex life?

>>9890735
>Dilation frequency: 0-3 months after surgery 3 times/day for 10 minutes each time, 3-6 months after surgery 1/day for 10 minutes each time, more than 6 months after surgery 2-3/week for 10 minutes each time, more than 9 months 1-2x/week.


http://transhealth.ucsf.edu/trans?page=guidelines-vaginoplasty

Educate your dumbass self

>>9890739
That doesn't answer my question you stupid tranny

>>9890734
The Brassard Dilation Schedule claims that the main health purpose for dilation is to prevent infection.
With the shrinking of the axe wound being merely cosmetic, this is accurate.

>>9890743
That question was answered in this post >>9890708 If you never dilate, your vaginal canal will shrink over time, so sex might become uncomfortable because you're too tight. That's it.

Are you too much of a brainlet to just google shit and do your own research? Do you just let /pol/ do all of the thinking for you?

>>9890748
>your vaginal canal will shrink over time

First of all, transwomen do not have vaginal canals, they have an inversed penis.

Secondly, "the shrinking of the vaginal canal" is literally your axewound trying to heal.

>>9890745
Link

>>9890400
>everyone refers to this article as their argument against transtion

>>9890755
I'm sure those people are doing just fine who didn't dilate
And of course, nobody ever regrets getting the surgery

>>9890591
>It's also been demonstrated that when you force a cis person to try to be opposite sex

What sort of controls did they do for that kind of experiment?

>>9890745
https://www.grsmontreal.com/DATA/TEXTEDOC/8X11WEB-Vaginoplastie-2013-ASC---En-V55.pdf

This is from Brassard's website. Dilation and infection are never mentioned together, it says that infection in the months after surgery comes from bad hygiene (primarily hand washing) and that dilation is to maintain the size of vaginal canal.

>>9890597
>because they have been positively evaluated by a professional

And the DSM for mental disorders was used to postively evaluate that homosexuals and people with speech impediments were mentally deranged and required medical intervention in the was of shock therapy and the like.

>>9890760
>What is a correlation, the post
Just because something is a correlate doesn't discredit it entirely.
It simply means that you can't use that one piece of data alone to surmise that there is a causal link.
You can infer causation, however, from enough correlation
Just that "imply" in this sense (correlation does not imply causation) is meant in the mathematical way, meaning it is necessarily the case due to that alone.

>>9890761
You can find botched surgery horror stories for every surgery that exists anon

>>9890363
Gender dysphoria is s mental illness and transitioning is (as of right now) the most effective and humane way of treating it

>>9890772
>Implying that was a botch, rather than a representation of the average
Go look at some "neo-vaginas" sometime, then come back and we'll have an adult conversation about this

>>9890774
Would you say that lobotomies were the most humane way of treating schizophrenia in the past?

>>9890776
>removing part of the brain

vs

>letting someone wear a dress, shave their legs, grow breasts

hmm

>>9890774
>Homosexuality is a mental illness, and sexual conversion therapy is the most humane way of treating it
Holy shit you sound exactly like the people your type hate

>>9890780
>telling someone they are not allowed to do thing

vs

>telling someone they are allowed to do thing

hmm

>>9890779
>letting someone wear a dress, shave their legs, grow breasts

vs

>perminently destroying the penis and creating an ever-healing axewound in its place

Hmmmmmmmmm
Can't quite tell the difference, anon

>>9890785
Less than 1% of trans people get sex reassignment surgery

>>9890787
So you agree with me that gender reassignment surgery is too extreme then?
And it would be likely much better handled with cross-dressing, shaving, and hormone therapy?

>>9890787
>claim to be a girl
>99% of my otherkin don't even get an axewound

Topkeks

>>9890788
I think you should let people do what they want if it makes them happy and doesn't hurt others, bonus points if it contributes to the advancement of medical science and incentivizes research into understanding human psychology and biology and incentivizes development of new experimental technologies in the future.

>>9890765
It comes as a byproduct of the dilation process, as you clean it with a water douche after dilating
If you want to say that you can potentially only douche years later then that is possible, but it's still a constant maintenance that you need to preform for the rest of your life, which is foreign to any other cosmetic surgery

>>9890771
what are you even talking about, they dont even measure the effect of transition on suicide rates

>>9890794
A picture comes to mind of two gentlemen in a bloody room, one with his legs currently being mutilated and giving a thumbs up with the caption "welcome to 4chan."
I'm sorry to live in the same society as you if you're attempting to say that this behavior is acceptable simply because both consented.

>>9890794
I draw the limit when people allow 11-16 year olds to go on HRT.

15 year olds should not be allowed HRT for the same reason they are not allowed to suck off a 30 year old

>>9890798
Suicide rates after surgery are correlated to suicide rates before
I'm sorry you're too dense to understand such simple concepts

>>9890801
Every year past 11-16 dramatically diminishes the ability of HRT to actually help, why would you not give someone treatment when it can actually help them?

>>9890804
>why would you not give someone treatment when it can actually help them?
Are you the same person you were when you were 11-16?
If so I honestly pity you.

>>9890805
Gender dysphoria begins around age four, that's plenty of time for a parent to realize it's not just a phase.

>>9890804
Because they are children.

>>9890807
>Gender dysphoria begins around age four
>Believing literally anything a 4 year old says

>>9890802
right, but this doesnt tell you if they are higher or lower before

>>9890807
Children are literally walking retards.

If a 5 year old or a 12 year old tells you they are a girl you need to tell them that no biologically speaking they are a boy

>>9890811
Correct, just that their similar
>what is a correlation, the person

>>9890363
Does having a mental disorder come under the first option?

>>9890809
I know you are a brainlet but I will try to demonstrate

>4 year old says "Im not a boy i'm a GURL"
>actually you're a boy
>oh well ok

>same child gets older and says things like "dad, I'm a girl" "I feel like I'm a girl" "i want to be a girl" etc.
>you're just a child, let's wait until you grow up a bit more to see how you feel

>child says the same things from age 4 all the way to age 12 and has been to therapy to make sure that they're not confused about their feelings and that they're legitimate gender dysphoria
>ok, it's clear that this is not a phase and part of who you are, lets get you on puberty blockers just to make sure one last time we know for absolute certain you still want to be a girl

>child is now age 14 and insists stronger than ever they want to be a girl
>ok, lets get you on female hormones then so that you don't regret getting the wrong puberty for the rest of your life

It's that simple.

>>9890820
In addition to this, the child would likely also be living as a "girl" (name, clothes, etc) for some time even before puberty blockers, which they take for a couple years, and then get hormones if they are still insisting after that

>>9890820
>wrong puberty
Biological boys get a puberty that boys get
Biological girls get a puberty that girls get.

A child having a mental illness is not a reason to fuck with their nature.

If they want to do that they should wait until they are legal adults.

>>9890820
Although only tangentially related to this topic, I believe that Morgan Freeman's position on race is analogous to this.
He believes that the best way to avoid conflict in these areas is to "stop talking about it"
What he means by this is that the act of labeling yourself to be a part of a specific group misses the point of what labels are for, and only helps to divide us.
This is similar to the transgender issue because if individuals have characteristics that society deems feminine (playing with dolls, dresses, long hair, shaving), then they feel a part of that group.
I happen to think that if these people saw themselves as individuals, rather than slaves to a label, they would be much happier in the long run, and we wouldn't even need to have this conversation

>>9890820
How does the child know that he’s the wrong gender? From the perspective of the child, how does he know that how he feels is how cis girls feel? Is it not just a shot in the dark from an individuals perspective? This bit puzzles me but would appreciate being enlightened

>>9890827
This is a good point of cognitive dissonance exhibited by these people
>Gender is a social construct
>Except when it's transgenders

>>9890826
I like collecting and shooting firearms, hiking, camping, working on my car, playing video games, computer programming and I'm MtF.

No one who is trans is trans because they're feminine or masculine. It is 100% about your body and your brain. I would 100 times rather be a man than a woman, but I was born with gender dysphoria and if I see a flat chest instead of breasts on my body I will get severe anxiety.

>>9890827
http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

>>9890835
>I was born with gender dysphoria and if I see a flat chest instead of breasts on my body I will get severe anxiety.
Then this leads back to the conversation of how best to treat
Would you say that the best way to treat other forms of body dysmorphia, anorexia for example, would be best treated by allowing them to lose more weight and get surgery to look even thinner?
Enabling mental illness doesn't ever seem to fix it, so far as other forms of body dysmorphia are concerned
Why is this one example so different?
>Hint: it's a political reason that start with LGB

>>9890828
Trans people do not say that gender is a social construct. Transsexuals believe that gender is 100% biological

>>9890839
While this is true of a proper subset, the LGBT (T stands for trans by the way) movement, which happens to be where the vast majority of this push is coming from, fully embraces gender as a social construct.

>>9890842
Wrong.

Gay guy here.

LGB wishes T would fuck off.

>>9890838
Except transitioning almost totally eliminated my dysphoria, and gender dysphoria is a neurological defect and not an acquired mental illness like anorexia. Mental issues (like all medical issues) are not all directly comparable to each other and each one requires its own treatment, and further each person has their own needs.

>>9890842
There is no centralized, organized LGBT movement. It's just a label that includes millions of people who all have their own viewpoints and beliefs.

>>9890851
>Except transitioning almost totally eliminated my dysphoria
>>9890400
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism
Suicide rate before surgery and after surgery are similarly correlated.

>>9890854
And thus we're back on the problem with labels
>>9890825
I swear every one of these conversations is looping back in on itself

>>9890861
meant to link here
>>9890826

>>9890857
I've never had sex reassignment surgery dummy

>>9890519
the suicide rate for trannies pre op is much lower than post op

>>9890400
based and redpilled

>>9890870
source

>>9890857
>higher risks for mortality
lmao nigger what? You telling me I'm more likely to just not fucking die ever than some tranny? lol

>>9890867
My mistake. If you're only talking about hormone therapy as well as cross dressing then I do believe that you should have that decision
It's just this recent push for normality of surgery has me on the defensive whenever I hear people talking about "transitioning."
Especially when it's pertaining to children

>>9890876
>You telling me I'm more likely to just not fucking die ever than some tranny?
Yes.
When compared to the general public, trans individuals live measurably shorter.
Is this so hard to comprehend?

>>9890874
cutting off your balls hurts your brain

>>9890679
>You could say the same thing about furfags. Doesn't mean they should start cutting off body parts and attaching paws, tails, etc to themselves.

Furfags are of course horrible, but what is so deeply wrong with you that it matters to you wtf they do? People do stupid shit all the time, at least their hobby isn't driving drunk or punching children in the face.

>>9890883
wow thanks

>>9890885
Nope. There’s nothing wrong with being a furry.

>>9890888

>>9890885
Not that guy, but while I honestly don't care what people do, I find it interesting that so many of the very same people that claim they need reassignment surgery end up hating themselves for it afterwards.

I'd just like them to know that a flap of skin will never be a vagina and they'll never be a woman.

>>9890870
>>9890886
read the thread, tranny mong

>>9890907
theres no source here that says that

>>9890911
Yes there is
>>9890400

>>9890885
I don't care what people to do themselves.

I draw the line when I am coerced into playing along with their delusions.

A trans women is not a women, and the fact that this hurts the feelings of trans women does not obligated me to disregard basic biology.

I also draw the line when doctors ok HRT or puberty blockers for children

>>9890914
it literally does not

>>9890898
>I'd just like them to know that a flap of skin will never be a vagina and they'll never be a woman.

I think it's fair to say that they've thought about the issue more than you have. I'm all for education, but if they're hell-bent on doing it, why the fuck not? Most people I know are unhappy and it's got nothing to do with cutting off body parts.

I wonder about the people who react so strongly. Who the fuck cares?

I can lecture you and say if you have sex you're more likely to die from AIDS, but I don't think that's going to make you live in a bubble.

>>9890916
>draw the line when I am coerced into playing along with their delusions.

What pain is it to you to just call them what they wanna be called? Do you go around insisting that everyone with a nickname be called by their Christian name? Who fucking cares, why is it important to you?

>>9890638
ree is ree is ree my man

>>9890923
You literally can't read anything more complex than an image board

>>9890928
it compares post op with non trans, not pre op with post op. how hard is this to get

>>9890926
When I have to call a biological male a female, because that might hurt his feelings, I draw the line there.

>>9890931
>Pre-ops commit suicide at a considerably higher rate than the general public
>Post-ops commit suicide at a considerably higher rate than the general public
>Therefore the suicide rate for trannies pre-op is much lower than post-op
>>9890870
How do you figure?

>>9890934
Compelled speech is far more extreme than any limitation of free speech can ever be

>>9890924
I just said I don't care, they can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think it's important to educate them on the issue. Scientifically it's not a solution to their problem and while they may have 'thought' about it more then me, I doubt many actually understand or trust the studies done because they're blasted with misinformation in the mainstream media that says it's a perfect solution.

They need to understand that they'll never, ever, be consider a woman by heterosexual men. They will always be a dude, no matter what they do. They should just embrace it and take it in the butt.

>>9890941
Correct

>>9890934
>When I have to call a biological male a female, because that might hurt his feelings, I draw the line there.

Why?

Why waste a moment of your time caring?

Do you go around correcting grammar on poorly-worded signs? Do you correct toddlers when they call any bird-shaped object or creature a "duck"? I'm sure the trans person is dealing with a lot more shit than whatever internal dissonance you're being subjected to by using a different pronoun.

Why not show a little empathy and do something that takes almost no effort whatsoever to make someone feel better? Is the Matrix going to collapse if you use improper labeling?

>>9890946
>They need to understand that they'll never, ever, be consider a woman by heterosexual men.

Why? Why are you so heroically concerned about their sense of self in this capacity, but not willing to just be nice?

>>9890951
>Why waste a moment of your time caring?
You have it completely backwards
Why should I waste a moment of my time caring that "he" considers himself a "she?"
I don't give a single solitary fuck outside of him wanting to spread his mental illness to children

>>9890928
>>9890931
this anon did misread the statement

>>9890937
>>9890874
this is a debated topic and its mostly devolved to shit slinging. Regardless, GD is seriously fucked up and I hope trannies continue to live on the fringes of society.

>>9890951
If a mtf wants me to call him a her I will do so out of politeness and basic respect. Despite knowing deep well that a mtf is a male.

If that person is a complete shithead or dick in general, I won't extend that same courtesy however.

When the government mandates that I have to call a mtf a her is tyranny

>>9890951
Not that anon but if i'm talking to a tranny I've already failed to be h. These hypothetical conversations are pointless. Either you call the thing 'dude' before it turns around or you hear it introduce itself to someone else as Deborah or whatever and you're already on your way.

>>9890955
>Why?
I'll tell you why:
Because as a man, if some random asshole on the street called me a woman, I would simply laugh and say "is that the best you've got?"
Not start a giant national political movement to make it illegal for him to do so
If you can't take the bants, then why haven't you offed yourself yet?

>>9890958
>Regardless, GD is seriously fucked up
I think we can all agree on this for the most part

>>9890959
>When the government mandates that I have to call a mtf a her is tyranny

Who's being the drama queen now?

Tyranny! That's rich.

Anyway, I suppose it's nice that you're polite to others unless they're being douchey about it. That's about all you can expect from a citizen.

But your language reveals more about you than any loon in a beard and a dress. Such oppression you live under. Must be a rough life.

>>9890972
When the government forces me to call a biological man a female, that is tyranny.

>>9890955
What makes you think I'm not nice? My posts are >>9890946 and >>9890898 for reference. I'm actually pretty nice to everybody, even degenerates and brainlets.

I just think it's silly for me to play along and agree that reassignment surgery is a good idea, it's not. I also want to make it clear that even the perfect trap is still a dude, and though I may get a weird boner, there's no chance I'd ever fuck 'it' unless I was high or drunk enough to not notice I'm fucking a sweaty skin sack and not a vagina. It should never be my responsibility to see them as a woman and I'm not a bad person because I don't.

>>9890976
>When the government forces me to call a biological man a female, that is tyranny.

You are precious.

>>9890981
>Precious
Found the woman

Tranny here. The entire point of everything I do is so that you don't have to be told to call me she, you just call me she because that's what I look like to you. No compelling necessary. That's made difficult because I wasn't allowed to start hormones when I was 13 and had to wait until I was 20 because you same dumb bastards think you know everything.

>>9890996
even if you dont fully pass, its not hard to use feminine pronouns for someone with long hair, female clothes, generally feminine features (although obviously with some masculine),etc

>>9891007
That's definitely true, I'm just saying that most trans people don't want you to be forced to use the pronouns we want you to use.

>>9890996
What about the hon's that don't pass?

Should I be forced to call him a she?

>>9891009
true

>>9890981
Explain to me how it is not tyranny for the government to force me to calling a biological male a female

>>9891024
Trans women aren't female, they're male by definition. Calling a trans woman a woman is not lying.

>>9891007
It's not a matter of difficulty.

A male to female transexual is biologically male, therefore I will use he him pronouns.

A person's feelings doesn't override biology, and a person's feelings is certainly not going to dictate my behavior.

>>9891026
>calling a trans woman a woman is not lying.

A trans woman is biologically male

He has or had a penis
He has Y chromosomes
He has the skeleton structure of a man

It is lying

>>9891030
So intersex women with XY chromosomes should be called he as well?

>>9891009
>Most
Maybe so, but due to virtue signaling on the left done on behalf of this minority group, places like Canada are starting to implement hate-speech infractions for calling somebody by the wrong gender.
These can then be used against somebody in a court of law to extend a prison sentence

>>9891026
>trans women are male by definition
>calling a trans woman a woman is not lying
???

>>9891032
>so humans born with only 8 fingers shouldn't be called humans since humans are born with 10 fingers

You are grasping at straws with that argument.

Rare birth defects exist yes, but that doesn't mean a trans woman is a woman.

>>9891040
being trans is a rare birth defect

>>9891040
Trans women are a rare birth defect anon. You are contradicting yourself.

>>9891043
Citation fucking needed
There is currently 0 evidence that it has a genetic origin

>>9891043
A mental one not a biological one

>>9891046
>genetic
It's widely believed in the medical and scientific communities that transsexualism is caused by exposure to hormones in the womb causing masculinization or feminization of the brain. That's still an irreversible birth defect.

>>9891056
>widely believed
And yet you don't cite me a single study
>I wonder why that is

>>9890583
no

The real issue here is that many in society make a big deal out of social constructs surrounding gender. In addition they make a big deal out of sexual activity.

Those affected by gender dysphoria wouldn't make life so difficult for themselves if they weren't obsessed with the way they dress, how their hair looks, or the size of their tits.

Many of the most switched on and feminine women I have known were just as comfortable wearing gender neutral clothes. Dressing up, putting on make up, acting sexy was just something they did on special occasions, otherwise they just acted and looked like..plain ordinary human beings. Their gender for most of the time wasn't in the fore front of their minds, just getting on with people and dealing with life's daily chores and enjoying recreation time were the most important things to them. Just like most men.

TLDR1. The root problem is that live in an over-sexualised society.

TLDR2. These people have way too much time on their hands and overthink things like gender and sexuality.

>>9890373
>it’s capitalism bitch
Except it’s not, their tranny-ness is treated as something that they can not control, and so we are forced to pay taxes for their social security benefits. We are forced to pay for them to be fags. Our money is being stolen; doesnt sound like capitalism to me... commie.

>>9890519
African american slaves had a lower rate of suicide than trannies do today.

>>9891314
The only other group of people that had a suicide rate as high as modern trannies in all of human history was jews living in germany/poland

>>9890838
except T isn't a sexual preference, like LGB, freak

>>9891306
You don't understand gender dysphoria at all.

I do not care about clothes, my hair, or the size of my tits. I care about the cashier at the grocery store calling me he instead of she. So the only way to be called she instead of he is to wear the most flattering clothing I can find, have my hair pristinely styled, wear makeup, and maximize my chances of appearing as if I was born female to the best of my ability. It's not about the fucking clothes, that's a means to an ends. If I could wear a tank top and sweat pants with my hair tied up and still get called she, I would do it.

>>9891317
So the correct conclusion to draw from that is that trannies aren't suffering and we shouldn't care about them

>>9891369
The correct conclusion to draw is that the bigger deal you make about a thing, the more ridicule you'll get for it
A sort of spin-off of the Streisand effect

>>9891368
Why do you put so much stock into words?
As a guy, I personally couldn't care less if everyone constantly referred to me as a she.
It's called not giving a fuck about what people think of you, and it really needs to be taught more.

>>9891372
I don't put any stock into words. I have a neurological defect that causes an involuntary response to the specific trigger of not being recognized as a female, either from an external source like another person, or internally such as looking at myself and seeing obviously masculine physical traits. Why can't people grasp this concept?

>>9890981
It is. I feel for transgender people and I don’t disrespect them and I call them by their pronoun but the second you make it against the law not to, it’s too far. If you disagree with that then you are a radical.

>>9891377
I understand it but I don't care.

If you are a male I will refer to as such.

I care more about biology than I do about your feelings

>>9891381
But these specific feelings are caused by a biological birth defect

>>9891383
I don't call my kitty Mr.Kitty since he identifies as a male cat, I call him Mr. Kitty since he is a male cat

>>9891383
>But these specific feelings are caused by a biological birth defect
Prove it

>>9891386
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

>>9891390
Cite me a study, not an opinion piece

>>9890718
Did you even read his fucking post you intellectual midget

>>9891442
shut up you stupid tranny freak

>>9890870
>trans people are more ostracised and discriminated against once they publicly come out, leading to higher depression and suicide rates
But sure, it's the reassignment itself that's the issue.

>>9891450
>deflecting this hard
wew

>>9890363
>Why does science automatically assume that Option #2 is the correct one?
Because gender identity is, as the phrase implies, part of one's identity and using medicine to alter identity is a big can of worms that we are not ready to open.

>>9891869
>using medicine to alter identity is a big can of worms that we are not ready to open.
We literally do this constantly in psychiatry
What do you think those medications do to things literally labeled "personality disorders?"

>>9890363
Just think about all the people out their whose brain *and* body are wrong, and they don't have any idea.

>>9890363
Because the brain can't go wrong

>>9891937
But actually, it's pretty far-fetched to claim that the brains of MtF AGF transgender persons is really female brains.
They still have male-typical interests and proclivities for the most part.
If you wanted to predict their behavior, you'd be best served with the model of a male with a fetish.

>>9891974
>male-typical interests
They dress like women, they think like women, they eat like women

Trans are not gay

>>9891977
>they think like women
There are nerdy, highly technical STEM sub-fields where there are probably more trans-women than cis-women.
If you see a "woman" on twitter who's an expert at functional programming, there's a high chance the person is male.
They don't think like women.

>>9891994
We are in 2018, women can go (and go) to university and can study science, like men.

>>9890639
It's literally lying to your kid. It's not good to have a relationship based on falsehoods. You don't get to choose anything biological about yourself, gender has always meant biological sex with the only exceptions being modern social "science" hypotheses which have been proven wrong. The sooner you can teach your child to live with who they are the better off they will be.

>>9890363
I've seen research linking Gender Dysphoria to mental illnesses like schizophrenia. Do drugs exist to alleviate the effects of the condition and make the person feel more comfortable in their own skin or is that a big no no?

>>9890660
>ad absurdum

>>9891309
I'd rather my tax money go towards making tight fembois than obsolete, unused military equipment

>>9892003
They can, but they don't if you break it down to the STEM fields exclusively

>>9890363
Because usually, the brain defines the personality. E.g. your self-perception is based on your brain chemistry. To alter someoney self-perception is a.) really, really difficult and may be impossible b.) morally probably more wrong than altering somebody's body to fit their self-perception.

>>9892294
>morally probably more wrong than altering somebody's body to fit their self-perception.

Explain the moral aspect further please?

>>9892294
>To alter someoney self-perception is a.) really, really difficult and may be impossible b.) morally probably more wrong than altering somebody's body to fit their self-perception.
So we should just accept that anorexics starve themselves?
The problem I have with this issue is that your side doesn't extend this benevolent treatment style to sufferers of different types of body dysmorphia.

Consider the hypothetical:

Homosexual arguments follow the thinking that sexual attraction is innate:

>Born this way
>the brain decided that I must be a certain gender

So why don't the same rules apply to *all* behaviors and attitudes INCLUDING those which lead to discriminatory behaviour

>be anti-homo
>can't help it because my brain AT BIRTH dictated I would be this way
>get no help from society but instead discriminated against

And why no leniency to pedophiles - if sexual attraction is innate there should be greater recognition and financial contribution to 'rehabilitation' or mental alleviation for pedos too really otherwise society has no integrity.

>>9892299

If you can solve the problem by altering the body instead of the brain chemistry, that is morally superior in my opinion, because you are not actually fundamentally changing the personality.


>>9892306

Well, first of all, there is no physical treatment for eating disorders, so you have to treat it psychologically, which is also the reason why it is so hard to heal. Second of all, it's a disorder, not a fundamental self-perception. So the comparison is not really valid.

>>9890363
>Why does science automatically assume that Option #2 is the correct one?

It doesn't, but it's a *hell* of a lot easier and, in practice, more effective to fix the problem the #2 way than the #1 way.

We have basically 0 ability to fix things on the mental side; the body we can at least do something about.

>>9892306
Anorexics starving themselves is harmful. Wearing a dress is not harmful.

>>9892307
It gets even funnier when you realize there is zero evidence for a purely genetic cause.
The best they have is theories having to do with fetal growth, as monochorionic twins (ones which share a placenta) are both homosexual at twice the rate of dichorionic twins (two placentas).
>http://hawaii.edu/PCSS/biblio/articles/1961to1999/1993-homosexual-orientation-in-twins.html

>>9892321
How about cutting of your wang?

>>9892324
Very, very few transsexuals get sex reassignment surgery. For male-to-female transsexuals that do, they do not cut off their penis but have it reconstructed into a vaginal shape. They still retain the ability to have sex and reach orgasm. Unless you consider all surgery to be harmful, there's nothing wrong with it.

>>9892332
>Unless you consider all surgery harmful
You must not know what the recovery from that surgery entails
It's .5-2 hours per day of "dilating" and rinsing for the rest of your life
Name me one other cosmetic surgery which has even close to this sort of recovery?
The closest I've been able to find is overbite surgery, and that is only a 6 week ordeal.

>>9890641
Protest followed by revolt. If there isnt enough people to support 1 or both if necessary then your society has decided they want it. If you personally dont, then gtfo.

>>9892407
You're acting like "society deciding" isn't possible to happen prior to giving up your rights to choose what is best for your children

>>9890684
tbqh this
They dont represent a big enough % of the population for me to care about even on an ethical level, to say nothing of the fact that their political opinions are totally meaningless. I dont understand why minority groups think they should be given equal visibility and credence in society when the society is dominated by another group that has dissimilar interests.

>>9892413
Of course it is, I just skipped to the endgame to make the point more transparent. The entire legislative and political system exists to determine the will of the electorate so that it can be enacted by the government, but implicit to the trust placed inn that system is the constant threat of escalating civil unrest to the point of insurgency and civil war.

>>9892306
The more fitting comparison is this: A man has an accident that leaves him paralyzed. Luckily, there is a surgery that can heal him. What are you going to do now?

1. Try to change his self-perception so that he learns to live with his paralyzed body
2. Just heal the damn paralysis.

>>9892318
>Second of all, it's a disorder, not a fundamental self-perception
This is contrary to all current theories, but plausible nonetheless due to the lack of scientific rigor in the field
Body dysmorphia and gender dysmorphia are both forms of psychological dysmorphia, though.

>>9892434
>A more fitting example for cosmetic surgery is life saving surgery for a paralyzed man
What the fuck brings all the pseuds out to defend this mutilation practice?

>>9892425
My point was that once you give something up to the government it is nearly impossible to get it back in any reasonable amount of time without force
A little off-topic but this is why I'm pro small government. They just can't help themselves

>>9892460
Eating disorders are mostly coping mechanism that turn into addictions. It starts out with either you starting to eat a lot or starting to eat almost nothing to deal with whatever you have to deal with, and then an addiction starts kicking in and you can't stop doing it anymore (either eating or not-eating). Therapies mostly concentrate on getting rid of the addiction, teaching them proper diets instead, and hoping they don't fall back into the vicious circle again.

Obesity btw does very often get solved surgically (via a bariatric surgery).

>>9892434
It's not a more fitting comparison. The paralyzed body does not work properly. A pre-op tranny's body, and an anorexic's body both work fine. In both cases the problem is in the person's mind.

>>9892379
Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread

>>9891937
So there's no such thing as mental illnesses? Schizophrenia, delusions, hallucinations, etc are all perfectly fine and should be embraced?

>>9892507
>Eating disorders are mostly coping mechanism that turn into addictions. It starts out with either you starting to eat a lot or starting to eat almost nothing to deal with whatever you have to deal with, and then an addiction starts kicking in and you can't stop doing it anymore (either eating or not-eating). Therapies mostly concentrate on getting rid of the addiction, teaching them proper diets instead, and hoping they don't fall back into the vicious circle again.
More psych bullshit with no model supporting such
Keep pretending you know what science is, though

>>9891977
>They dress like women
So do crossdressers. That doesn't make them women
>they think like women
They actually don't. Look at something like video game speedrunning. There are many more trannies than there are biological women. There are gaps in how men and women think (women tend to be more empathetic, men tend to be more logical) and trannies definitely fall into the biological side of the fence.
>they eat like women
how does a woman eat differently from men?

>>9892812
Is there a refutation to my claim that there is no cosmetic surgery on the same scale as GRS?
If so, please link

>>9892469
>once you give something up to the government it is nearly impossible to get it back in any reasonable amount of time
This is what needs to change about governments
We live in a world where shit changes at an ever quickening rate
The idea that we have to slowly make up our minds and/or become comfortable with shit first is ridiculous. We are going to be left in the dust an i for one welcome our machine overlords

I remember reading somewhere that getting transition surgery increases the risk of suicide cause eventually you've gotta wake up to reality when you hit that midlife crisis

>>9890800
I still don't know the story behind that picture. Do you?

>>9890597

>psychologist
>professional
MFW

>>9890363
I'd splooge in the back of "her" throat.
That's all.

>>9890363
Their brain is ALWAYS wrong.

Gender and Sex are the same thing and neither can be changed.

>>9890380
You're assuming it's NOT a mental illness. It is a mentall illness and should be treated as such.

>>9890385
>helps people suffering from it contribute more to our society.
Wrong it enables their mental illness and in the long run harms society.

>>9890519
No that's a lazy excuse.

They are mentally ill and mutilating their genitals and forcing them to live a lie is what causes that.

>>9890774
No it's not it just accelerates it.

>>9890363
I'll go with option 3: you're wrong.
#killallwhitecismales

>>9893940
This. Neither the brain nor the body of a trans person is incorrect. What is at fault is society for making them feel less than, as if a bepenised bearded six footer is less of a woman than Audrey Hepburn

After reading so many horror stories I would find it harder to believe that post-ops didn't have higher rates of suicide.

>>9890612
>Social constructs
Apparently humans are the only species where difference of behaviours and roles between the sexes is unnatural.

>>9892285
WHAT A FUCKING FAGGOT YOU ARE

>>9892469
The cause of it isnt government though, its that people are apathetic.

>>9892998
> video game speedrunning. There are many more trannies than there are biological women.
Yeah because thought pattern is the only possible cause for this. It couldnt possibly be that trannies avoid other people because of the social stigma.

>>9894770
You can see it at events like GDQ as well

>>9894775
>10 trannies out of the millions of trannies that exist like speedrunning
>that means all scientific data about brain structure is wrong

>>9894827
>>that means all scientific data about brain structure is wrong
All of that "scientific" data only accounts for individuals who are already undergoing hormone therapy
I would assume that if you take an absurd amount female hormones, your brain would start to change in turn

>>9892307
There should be, and it's in the best interest for all parties including the safety of children if pedos had better access to counseling/rehab, but society at large is driven by instinct and emotion alone.

>>9892995
Yes, person who is probably addicted to the internet, addiction are just soft science bullshit that doesn't really exist.

>>9892307
>He doesn't get the difference between wanting to do something for yourself that harms no one and wanting to forbid somebody else to do something only because you despise it.

>>9894946
I absolutely love it when you break somebodies argument down so far that their only course of action is an insult
An actual example of "ad hominem," rather than that retarded shit faggot pseuds throw at you when your well reasoned argument comes with an insult attached.

>>9894827
The argument was whether trannies think like men or women.

Trannies participate in male-inclined fields/activities (STEM, speedrunning, etc) at a higher rate than you would expect from their population size, sometimes in more actual numbers than real women, despite having 1/167th the population.

This leads me to think that trannies think like men (with whom they share a lot of the same interests, hobbies, etc) and not women (with whom they don't).

>>9894965
Yes, addicted person, everything is fine for you, your porn addiction is fine, too, psychological stuff is all just libtard bullshit, go back to pol now.

>>9894965
It's absolutely telling that you took that as an insult.

>>9890755
>tranny
>husband
deluded lmao

>>9894966
Female-to-male trannies have the same suicide patterns as women as well.
It's really sad that so many people are brainwashed by groups with a political agenda.
And to such an extreme where they'll deny any actual care to individuals suffering with what is objectively a form of body dysmorphia.
For some reason they prefer to enable mental illness rather than cure it.

>>9894966
Early transitioners do not heavily participate in male-inclined fields.

>>9894974
Oh so "internet addiction" is just fine by your standards?
I don't even know why I come here anymore.
You fuckers are more retarded than redit

>>9890385
>totally pertinent to science
>oh no this is a troubled subject
> /pol

fuck you

>>9890511
>When we be a hyper advanced civilization, I bet we will be able to change sex at a genetic level

Before we are that advanced we will be able to change the brain enough to make them follow their birth sex.

>>9890511
>>9895016
The question is what is correct:
A brain that is misfiring due to hormonal imbalances and genetic flaws
OR
The actual, tangible, physical world

>>9895024
the brain is right because muh feelings

>>9895024
We can do both at that point I'm sure

>>9890363
Both are wrong, the mind is part of the body

>>9890373
There were studies done, you dumbass.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

>>9895230
The mind still controls the body. Go back to third grade.

>>9895641
The studies generally only test those who are currently undergoing hormone replacement therapy, thus rendering them valid.
The ones that test beforehand are always <50 participants and as such the results are inconclusive.

>>9895641
It's an illness.

>>9890363
It's actually option 1.

>>9895919
>has no argument
>need to post something
>inflammatory alt-right talking point no. 29

>>9894966
There's animal groups where some males take female roles to ensure survival/reproductive chances.
Last I saw was a bird species in which males differentiate between "Alphas", "Betas" which will actually fake being submissive to the Alpha to take their chances when the Alpha is done/distracted and lastly males that look and behave like females and literally stealth fuck to reproduce. We have a far more complex society and mental processes so these issues are probably magnitudes more complex in how they present themselves.

>>9896024
>>9896024
From what I understand a transexual has no interest in passing his genes(or he assigns it secondary importance), that is why I added that it is probably just a small correlation in a more complex picture.

Just my opinions based on anecdotal evidence, maybe an actual transexual or someone with knowledge can expand on it.

>>9896024
the betas don't chop their dicks off so the alphas will fuck them in their delusion wounds, so your entire post is a non-sequitur.

Science has yet to find meaningful physical difference in the brains of men and women. So it is entirely a software problem.

Cosmetic surgery and hormones have not altered suicide and secondary mental illness rates.

>>9896042
Alpha and Beta are not the correct names for these, it's just easy to understand.
Anyway there are far more logical(and not so logical) steps for a male human to get to decide that he wants to chop off his dick. It's not so simple as looking like a female, eating fish, fliying around and sometime stick your feminine dick in an available female. We have to deal with our nature but also our manufactured world.

>>9890519
what about other discriminated groups? no way near as high

>>9896053
there is nothing logical about wanting to chop your dick off. cutting it apart and turning it inside out does nothing to improve that person's chances of procreation, which is the ultimate goal of any lifeform.

>>9890519
Wow, I guess non-Hispanic whites are actually the most ostracized and discriminated against group in the US!

>>9896056
We are past that in concepts, we'll take dozens of generations at best to realize it. Our natural body is unfit for space travel.
Deconstruction of sexes is the first step to eliminate the sexes. We headed to become or generate higher beings or go extinct.
Not defending transexuals, but I can see a natural behaviour usually indicating issues in an animal group(overpopulation) being distorted if you add in the implications of being human.

I might still be spewing some bullshit, not proofreading.

>>9890572
>dying of suicide
>dying of cancer

These are not the same thing, not even remotely. If a "cure" for depression universally increases suicide a significant amount you don't allow it in medical science because it's not a cure, it's making things worse.
Chemotherapy is mitigating a life threatening disease. It's obviously damaging, that's the point, and will increase your chance of death after the disease recedes, but it's the lesser of two evils. The alternative is usually succumbing to the disease and dying from cancer.

Succumbing to "not having the genitals you personally want" is not life threatening. It should be mitigated with treatment that does not significantly increase your odds of commiting suicide because that's making things worse.

This is why your cannot equate sex reassignment surgery and chemo.

>>9896058
>>9896055
nothing about my post said that that was the only factor leading someone to suicide, so fuck off. my point was that whether or not someone has had gender confirmation surgery is not the only determinant of suicide risk

>>9896261
>Succumbing to "not having the genitals you personally want" is not life threatening
It is if you have a condition related to that with a 40% suicide rate.

>It should be mitigated with treatment that does not significantly increase your odds of commiting suicide
If you actually did even two minutes of research you would see that transition does not increase the odds of suicide for a trans person, and neither does SRS. Both lower the risk.

>>9896834
>It is if you have a condition related to that with a 40% suicide rate.
Explain to me why 100% of these people aren't on 24 hour suicide watch then?
40% suicide rate far exceeds than of black slaves in the US.
>If you actually did even two minutes of research you would see that transition does not increase the odds of suicide for a trans person, and neither does SRS. Both lower the risk.
Literally no evidence for this. In fact, there is evidence that the rates of suicide after SRS are correlated with that of before.
>No significant difference
You know what does cause a significant difference in suicidal behavior?
>Suicide watch
>Therapy
>Not encouraging body dysmorphia
>Not fucking body mutilation
You people are sick

>>9896879
>I am a qualified expert on rare medical conditions because I read a bunch of copy pastas on /pol/, trust me and my facts don't listen to the jews

>>9896886
Wow great job ignoring my entire fucking argument to pay attention to one anecdotal picture
Fuck off, psued.

>>9890363
>want to be the opposite gender
>most insane thing ever
Who even cares. It's a free country.

>>9896889
>presenting an "argument" about medical facts you don't agree with that you blatantly don't understand at all and have done zero research about

I thought this was /sci/

>>9896902
>Not coming up with any sort of argument, and rather conceding to authority
Yup. This is /sci/.

>>9890363
Because, the "treatment" for 2 is expensive surgery and the membership fee at the yacht club just keeps going up and up

>>9890951
For me it depends on how good of a job they do on selling themselves as their gender. This one biological male I end up calling him she and her without even trying. He looks and acts close enough to a girl that it's just easier for me to say she. Another person I know, says he's trans but he looks male af, and dresses like a dude so I call him he, and he doesn't have a problem with it cause he's not retarded. Well, at least he hasn't mentioned it bothers him if it does.

>>9891372
This, you can call me a croissant as long as I know you're trying to talk to me.
>>9891377
Ngl it reaaaally sounds like you're trying to blame a personal character flaw on biology. I might be able to understand looking at your body and being confused, but other people's pronouns? That's other people's thoughts, not yours and it means something different to them then what it is to you obv. This process is called empathy.

>>9890363
Pretty sure in most cases it's a phase, besides, their suicide rates skyrocket after transision, so it's not the best solution to the issue.

>>9890363
>OP is sexually confused and ashamed
you're a faggot

>>9896889
>attempting to shut down discussion with labels and contempt
Piss off pseud

>>9891451
>suicide rate of trannies is higher than suicide rate of slaves
>also higher than suicide rate of jews in concentration camps
>hurr durr it's because they're ostrich sized