/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9876259
Yes, there's plenty of people who use math to print pretty pictures. They're known in the artistic, not the mathematical world.

>>9876274
I remember bach and escher being famous among mathematicians.

>>9876283
>What is harmonics?
Yes, but they aren't mapping mathematical concepts to some aesthetic construct for the sole purpose of aesthetics.
The study of harmonics is a useful science.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang_(countermeasure)

>>9876287
>useful
isn't math an art?

why does it need to be useful.

>>9876291
>math is an art
this is why modern mathematicians are a joke

>>9876291
No, it is nearer to a science.
Just to make it clear for those of you who are blind:
>NEARER

>>9876259
Fomenko was a Russian Topologist and he drew/painted a bunch of pictures of abstract concepts in mathematics. Tadashi Tokieda is Japanese Topologist and he was artist and philologist before he became a mathematician.

>>9876328
>>9876297
t. brainlets

Definition: Art - A field of research that deals with all the ways to communicate things and all the things one can communicate including abstract things like emotions and concepts.

Definition: Art form - An application of art.

Definition: Mathematics - A field of research dealing with formal truth about formal concepts.

Definition: Science - Empiricist hogwash.

Mathematics itself isn't really an art or an art form but in practice it is one. There are many ways to write a proof and the practice of writing a proof that is correct and salient is an art form. There are many ways to decompose a concept into discrete definitions but being able to do so in a way that is clean and clear is an art form. etc...

Science on the other hand is pig disgusting non-priori truth garbage that has literally nothing to do with mathematics.

>>9876259
You can draw math book covers

>>9876259
Elaborate on what you mean by "art guy".

>>9876259
>be math guy
>try to develop art skills to draw more beautiful diagrams
>only find drawing textbooks for drawing humans.

but I don't want to draw humans, I want to draw math.

>>9876259

I am a almost pro musician that studies math at uni. I feel like I am more wacky doodle autistic creative than smart. I will report in 10 years if it was worth it.

>>9876259

Yes, I cannot see why not. I have no idea what type of projects you are imagining doing, and it would be interesting to hear if you have any idea yet. If you don't have much of an idea yet, I would still encourage you. I believe math is one of the greatest and most general tools, and I a sure you will stumble upon many opportunities to utilize your new skills given that you take your studies seriously, are somewhat intelligent and somewhat creative. No need to be a genius to apply math in novel ways :)

the "esprit de systeme" of enlightenment has been detrimental to art and music.
artists need a large set of empirically proven heuristics which may be internally inconsistent but still give results. when replaced by a few axioms from which it is hoped to theoretically deduce the whole system of art, you instead create artificial gap between training and "real art" which almost seems unsurmountable and the paradoxical situation that people are more helpless with a what appears to be more modern and better (internally consistent) system.

>>9877532
take a calligraphy class so your proofs look fucking King Louise XIII

and for the diagrams that's just a matter of making your measurement consistent, jesus. if your lines end up looking all chicken scratchy or wobbly then read up on that introductory drawing or line art book you've been ignoring because it's mostly muscle memory.

>>9878596
>take a calligraphy class so your proofs look fucking King Louise XIII
I do lettering and have taken courses on typography, so thanks but no thanks.


>and for the diagrams that's just a matter of making your measurement consistent, jesus. if your lines end up looking all chicken scratchy or wobbly then read up on that introductory drawing or line art book you've been ignoring because it's mostly muscle memory.
I'm interested in learning to visually represent form, space, and volume in a way that's easy to read. Pic related is a simple example. I also want to learn some more color theory beyond the basic web design stuff that's ubiquitous all over the net.

>>9877521
Math is a bag of semantic tricks we use to solve problems too hard for dum dum monkey brain inbuilt features. Virgin mathematicians exist to make the lives of chad engineers and scientists easier.

>>9878430
>artists need a large set of empirically proven heuristics which may be internally inconsistent but still give results.

I agree. I would argue that most of the major advancements in music theory has been due to the invention of some mathematical model that binds together a bunch of successful heuristics, a meta-heuristic, making the whole cluster faster to learn and easier to understand. The circle of fifths comes to mind as a successful example. If one needs something that breaks the current system (meta-heuristic) it is possible to jump to another one, something that is analogue to jumping between base heuristics.

Also, why cannot mathematical thinking help invent new heuristics? Sure, twelve-tone technique makes shitty music, but it was worth a shot. I guess it didn't pass the empirical test. Where do you think successful heuristics in art come from?

>>9878740
Proof that /pol/esmoker frogs are the true brainlets of /sci/.

>>9878733
Some more slightly less trivial drawings.

>>9878748

>>9878733
>>9878748
>>9878750

These are beautiful diagrams, anon. Where are these from? You made these?

>>9877521
>Claiming to be able to define mathematics.
There is no empirical definition, but much of useful mathematics is nearer to science that it is to art.
So seriously, fuck off.

>>9878763
I didn't make these. They come from a book called "Dynamics the Geometry of Behavior" by Ralph Abraham. The book has more diagrams than text (342 diagrams), it is beautiful.

>>9878764
Mathematics is not empirical. It does have many definitions but all working mathematicians will agree that being able to communicate mathematics effectively is a fundamental aspect of mathematics. Far more than running experiments or other empirical practices.

>>9878763
Bonus picture

>>9878772
I'm not the one claiming to be able to define it though.
Besides, pure mathematics is nearer to a science than anything else, and pure mathematics has given a great deal to STEM.
I mean, nearly everything we do online is protected with cryptography that is derived from pure mathematics.
Heck, why're you even fucking posting on /sci/ if you think mathematics is an art?
I think I should report this for being off topic.

>>9876259
No, but you can play with medicine because it's not science, it's art too.

>>9878772
>>9878779

Thanks <3

>>9878788

>>9878786
The claim that it is nearer to science is baseless and ridiculous. Kill yourself brainlet.

Pure mathematics has given a great deal to everyone, including art. Cryptography is computer science (though depending on the context it may be referred to as pure math) and not actually empirical at all. In fact much of computer security in general isn't practiced in an empirical way because the experiments required are too risky (as a result it's a mix of pure math and superstition).

>Heck, why're you even fucking posting on /sci/ if you think mathematics is an art?
If only moot had listened to me back then!

>>9878807
Disregarded. Fix that spacing and we'll talk.

>>9878748
>getting carried away by things you defined into the system yourself
wew

math is like a programming language library for the brain, prove me wrong

>>9878786
>pure mathematics
cryptography is the result of people asking "hey how can I write something that can be deciphered with a key but is really difficult to decipher without a key". Just like every other meaningful advance in mathematics, it's the result of somebody trying to solve some problem they were interested in

>>9878817
>He doesn't know shit about cryptography.
How, big surprise there.
Read this book:
>https://siteget.net/o.php?b=5&mobile=&u=Mi4xMjEuMjE3LjUzfDovL2dlbi5saWIucnVzLmVjL2Jvb2svaW5kZXgucGhwP21kNT00RDA1OENCOTkyQ0Q3Q0MyMTk0MjAyNEQwODk4NzUxOHxNb3ppbGxhLzUuMCAoV2luZG93cyBOVCA2LjE7IFdpbjY0OyB4NjQ7IHJ2OjYyLjApIEdlY2tvLzIwMTAwMTAxIEZpcmVmb3gvNjIuMHw4NTExMTQ%3D

>>9878814
>programming language library
>for your brain
No.

That said, there is an important family of correspondences between logic, category theory, and type theory that allow one to formulate mathematics within special programming languages (called interactive theorem provers). The most well known of these correspondences is the Curry-Howard correspondence but nowadays many are studied within the context of programming language theory (HoTT is the most popular one).

This is as close as you'll get to trying to define mathematics as a programming language. It's kind of a silly analogy though and I'm not sure why so many people latch onto it.

>>9878811
>being this cancerous
shiggydiggydoo

>>9878839
>shiggydiggydoo
No, it's seriously required. Plebbitors are associated with low quality posts that have driven many (as in, all) board quality down.
By being directly abrasive and disregarding any post (even those that contain content) we hope to drive their community back off of 4chan and back to Plebbit (or anywhere else, really).
So simply, either stop formatting like that, or go back to Plebbit.
It's rather easy.

>>9878847
I've never used reddit and have been on 4chan since 2004 when we used to tell cancer like you to gb2gaia, gaiafag.

>>9878851
Then why the fuck do you automatically format like that? Brain damage?

>>9878855
Whitespace, used effectively, will increase the processing fluency of a post. Only retarded /pol/esmokers go apeshit over it because they've forgotten what good content looks like.

that happened a little bit when renaissance artists were doing correct perspective projections

>>9878856
>Only retarded /pol/esmokers go apeshit over it because they've forgotten what good content looks lik
No, anyone geninely concerned about the board (or the chan in general) should.
The quality of posts has evidently decreased.
And here's a couple of links so you can't just say "lmao cherrypicking!":
>http://archive.is/>>>/sci/catalog
>http://archive.is/Txkqc

>>9878863
I've been on /sci/ since the beginning. It's true the quality of posts have decreased but it's almost entirely due to frogposter/gorillaposter spam, crossboarder spam, and /pol/esmoker spam. There was also a dude who would repost the same set of threads every few weeks each time getting hundreds of replies.

That said, /sci/ has been in worse shape than it is now. I'm sure that reddit users are no doubt cancerous but I suspect they're a bigger problem on other boards than they are on /sci/.

>>9878870
>>9878863
Also, I just realized that your issue is with my doublespacing sentences and not so much using new lines. I do that as a habit from writing LaTeX. I'm also pretty sure it's a common occurrence on /sci/.

>>9878870
The thing is that the Reddit posters are largely the same as the /pol/tards. Back during the election cycle 4chan traffic increased dramatically, as did phoneposters. Many of these traffic increase was due to the rise of /r/The_Donald and mentions of 4chan by the media.
Thus, many of Trump's supporters, who happen to be largely alt-right flooded into 4chan causing a spill from /pol/.
This is why you see /pol/-tier threads, opinions and infographics as a general theme across the chan.
They are also often invariably the ones who post Pepe (or Kek) and Wojak the most.

>>9878881
>*Much of this traffic increase

>>9878881
Much of the /pol/ traffic has been around for longer. I'm not sure that eliminating the rebbit user will have a significant effect on it. If anything it will give /pol/esmokers another group to scapegoat.

>>9878887
So, we should just target /pol/tards?

>>9878888
Why not both?

>>9878890
It's either that, or we go and make our own *chan with blackjack and hookers, and bar posting with the need to answer a field relevant question that wouldn't be easier to answer with a search engine.