/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9827951
Elon musk is a retard why would anyone take the time to insist he is wrong about something?

>>9828034
>>9827951
sounds like something an AI would say to keep Elon from stopping them...

>>9827951
Obedient AI is actually the dangerous one, and sentient AI that thinks and lives for itself is the safe one.
The first thing to happen to obedient AI is monopolization, then AI will do the work for the jews, not for you, and the jews will see that you have no value to them anymore: the AI can do all the work and more obedient than you. Guess their conclusion.
In comparison nuclear weapon doesn't allow to exterminate people because then jews will be left without slaves and will have to do everything themselves or die from starvation. They want neither. Nuclear weapons can be used for political games and to explode asteroids, not much more, so they are not dangerous really.

>>9828034
Because he runs a cult and his followers take everything he says as fact, the sooner people realize he's a scam artist and any success he's achieved is thanks to overworking people that work him, the better.

>The ice caps are completely fine. It will be hundreds of years before they start melting, so why worry about them now. Lets focus on the problems at hand

Humans have a very hard problem dealing with long time scales. AI is an existential threat regardless of when you think it will happen. I'd rather be over prepared early, than under prepared too late.

>>9828034
>>9828059
t. butthurt morons who think just because someone is successful and they don't have a PhD in physics and math, as well as holding 5 different engineering degrees, this means they are retarded.

Who's the retard? The guy posting dumb opinions on 4chan or the billionaire who owns 4 tech companies?

>And it's not even that difficult. Compared with the equations of theoretical physics, which is what my university thesis was on, computational math is not that complicated.

Sounds like someone who enjoys sniffing his own farts. How is that whole anecdote even relevant aside from him asderting superiority over the entire field of computation?

>>9828175
Yeah, Elon is a retard but this guy is retarded too. Has some specific yet unspecified definition of 'intelligence'.

>>9828173
Musk is a businessman and clearly very successful at that, but because of his involvement in technology business people hail him as a Tony Stark-like genius who draws up new rocket propulsion systems and whatnot. It's a different skill set.

Admittedly, many do idolize him for just the tech business leader part without slapping on any engineering genius titles.

I think he'd appear more intelligent or something if he didn't use social media as much, which can be said for just about anyone.

Why do people who mock AI fail to realize that our brain is also a computer? We just don't know the algorithm and it's a matter of time before we get it right. To argue against this position is to believe in souls or some equivalent.

>>9828034
>>9828059
>>9828178

>he received an economics degree from the Wharton School and a degree in physics from the College of Arts and Sciences
>Musk began a Ph.D. in applied physics and material sciences at Stanford University

Musk is not just a businessman. He is not a world class aerospace expert such as Mueller, but he can run circles around most people when it comes to engineering and science around most people, including retards on this board.

Also, do not underestimate the importance of a great manager. Cheap reusable rockets were technically possible at least since the 80s. Yet nobody in other aerospace companies or NASA pursued this kind of engineering seriously, and if they did it was promptly cancelled. You can thank Musk for changing this paradigm.

>>9828059

>muh scam artist
>muh overworking

butthurt leftist detected

you mad that a capitalist is finally pushing spaceflight forward in complete negation of your braindead ideology? back to enoughmuskspam subreddit with you

>>9828186
Musk is also terrible at speaking and explaining things, which feeds into the brainlet contrarians' dunning-kruger

>>9827951

>One can put together many many many apps and get the equivalent of a general-purpose intelligence, but it still not intelligence to me.

Let me guess, it lacks a magical soul?
We are still far from a general AI, but when it does appear and emulate the processes happening in the brain, there is no reason to think it wont be intelligent in the same way as human brain is.

>>9828186
>Also, do not underestimate the importance of a great manager.
Don't try to explain this to NEETs and burgerflippers with PhDs here on /sci/. They think getting something done is trivial just because you know the theory.

>>9827951
>artificial intelligence is still in its Stone Age

https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/01/artificial-intelligence-revolution-1.html

The fact that..

>>9828190
I'm as capitalist as they come, I'm just against taking anything he says about science seriously.
>back to enoughmuskspam subreddit with you
I think you're the one who should go back.

>>9828190
not him, but I'm a leftist and I love how he's been able to make billions off of good ideas through the use of capitalism. And it's usually the leftists praising Musk anyway.

>>9828214
>And it's usually the leftists praising Musk anyway.
nah, most people across the political spectrum praise Musk, or are just indifferent, but when someone is trashing Musk, it is most often a butthurt far leftist mad that an evil capitalist is pushing technology forward, with a handful of Trump supporters who are against solar power and electric cars thrown in

>>9828034
He's right about the jews

>>9828224
>it is most often a butthurt far leftist mad that an evil capitalist is pushing technology forward, with a handful of Trump supporters who are against solar power and electric cars thrown in
Both camps have perfectly valid opinions: solar power is inefficient, electric cars are a dead-end pipedream of the brainlet proletariat, and industrial society is the beginning of the end of any individual liberty whatsoever.

The people who hold these views, however, are only very rarely aware of why they´re in the right; most of them are irredeemable brainlets who jump on the anti-capitalist/anti-electric car/anti-solar crusade as a consequence of reading one too many articles by whichever media empire´s propaganda they gobble up on the daily.

>Scaruffi

>>9827951
>>If, in your opinion, AI isn't intelligent at all, because nothing artificial can actually be intelligent, what would you call the field itself? Merely advanced computation with super fast processors?
>>Yes, the AI that I know is a branch of computational mathematics. That's really all there is to it: math. And it's not even that difficult. Compared with the equations of theoretical physics, which is what my university thesis was on, computational math is not that complicated. It was basically invented in 1936 by Turing, so it is only 80 years old.
Aaand stopped reading right there. The social sciences were a mistake.

The fact that so many books still name the Beatles as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" rock band ever only tells you how far rock music still is from becoming a serious art. Jazz critics have long recognized that the greatest jazz musicians of all times are Duke Ellington and John Coltrane, who were not the most famous or richest or best sellers of their times, let alone of all times. Classical critics rank the highly controversial Beethoven over classical musicians who were highly popular in courts around Europe. Rock critics are still blinded by commercial success. The Beatles sold more than anyone else (not true, by the way), therefore they must have been the greatest. Jazz critics grow up listening to a lot of jazz music of the past, classical critics grow up listening to a lot of classical music of the past. Rock critics are often totally ignorant of the rock music of the past, they barely know the best sellers. No wonder they will think that the Beatles did anything worthy of being saved.

>>9828034
>Elon musk is a retard
this

People who worry about AI are, to put it lightly, fucking stupid. AI can barely do anything remotely interesting or new, and the applications are limited. AI is still hardly capable of generating or comprehending human speech except in controlled, limited ways, nor will it ever. And self-driving cars are bullshit, the video tech is lightyears away from good enough.

>>9828206
This shit is so cringe. The rambling delusions of a person obsessed with something they don't understand.

interesting

>>9828477
Say you are wrong and it happens would it be better to take early action to be able to control it or you would rather let it happen and allow possible extinction

>>9828186
>Cheap reusable rockets were technically possible at least since the 80s. Yet nobody in other aerospace companies or NASA pursued this kind of engineering seriously, and if they did it was promptly cancelled. You can thank Musk for changing this paradigm.
Or Jeff Bezos. Richard Branson, et al.

>>9828178
>Musk is a businessman and clearly very successful at that
Pretty sure none of companies are running a profit. Pretty sure that's the definition of a successful business.

>>9827951
>scaruffi
lol, i honestly didnt realize scaruffi was taken seriously for things other than music reviews although i did know he had science related stuff on his site

>>9828210
...so many people still name artificial intelligence as the greatest threat against mankind only tells you

>>9827951
>it just does math so it can never be truly intelligent!
>human brains work by doing math
>oh...

>>9828587
>Or Jeff Bezos. Richard Branson, et al.
Nope. Get back to me when they achieve orbit.

Elon is exceptional because he is the perfect combination of autism and charm. He's not a super genius, but hes smarter than most of the huckster types that usually become CEOs.

>>9828181
This. There are no souls and it is only a matter of time until AI surpasses human intelligence in general. And then what? It could mean transhumanist utopia or extinction of humanity. Nobody knows, not even self-proclaimed AI experts. Anyone that pretends otherwise is spewing BS.

>musk says some negative things about lefitst media
>all of a sudden he's public enemy number one and runs a supposed cult

P-Piero Scaruffi? OUR Scaruffi?

The fact that so many books still name Elon Musk as "the greatest or most significant or most influential" engineer ever only tells you how far engineering still is from becoming a serious science.

>>9827951
AI is sci-fi not /sci/.

>>9828059
Don’t forget all the subsidies. Guy gets more of our tax money than israel

>>9828866
ebin

>>9828821
Go reread the text I was quoting then get back to me.

>>9827951

wait what?
Piero Scaruffi?

is it really not from the The Onion?

>>9828477
The smarter you try to seem the more you conpletely expose yourself for being a drooling retard. I doubt you even know the basic bitch undergrad material about neural networks and machine learning

>>9827951
>Why should we worry more about AI than we should about nuclear weapons?
Did this guy never see Wargames?
Also, what exactly does he mean by biotech?

>>9828866
Kinda right. The AI these fear mongering idiots, and the clueless general public, are blathering about is sci-fi, for now. What most people in the field mean when they say AI is a simplistic neural networks, trained models, etc., that can do just one task based on metric fuckton of data is ingested.

>>9827951
But that's exactly what an AI would tell you...

>>9828181
>>9828830
Our brain is a computer vs our brain is like a computer. Don't make an assertation if you don't actually know. It's likely, but not certain.

>>9828186
This board is full of undergrads that think they know more than guys with 10 years of experience in the business.Even non technical management with that much experience and personal interest in their own product would know more than guy that just passed his thermodynamics class.Musk falls under management with autistic interest in his own product these people learn quickly even if their job is not in engineering itself

I think people who don't think AI will be dangerous are pretty naive. It won't be a terminator scenario, that an AI designed for "good purposes" will "go bad", but that people will build an AI for nefarious purposes.

Most people had no issue fearing nuclear weapons because something like a giant bomb an easily understood threat. AI is new and not well understood, which causes people to fear it because for the wrong reasons. We shouldn't fear it because it could grow outside our control and take over the world like some science fiction movie. We should fear it because of what a person could do with this new tech.

>>9828186

>drops out of PHD in applied physics
>starts company
>gets with Peter thiel who calls him an exceptionally bright guy
>Makes PayPal, becomes multi millionaire
>Goes to Russia to buy a rocket
>Is laughed out of a room and spit on by Russians
>On the plane takes out computer with excel file, uses first principles and says you know guys we might actually be able to make our own rockets

>a decade goes buy

>Space X is cash flow positive, is landing 5 story rockets in the middle of the fucking ocean and sending cars to outer space and the Russians have no space industry anymore

ALL OF YOU BITTER LOSERS CAN ALL OFF YOURSELVES AHAHAHAHAHA

>>9829004
>Space X is cash flow positive
Come on now, Elon, don't you have better things to do?

>>9829004

Let me continue

>Is a kid
>read nietzche, Marx, and the germans
>learns to program in a weekend, spent 48hrs in flow state
>has photographic memory
>makes home made rockets, explosives
>programs first game at 15, sells it for 500
>gets tested by IBM, scores one of the highest scores
>goes of to college in the united states
>builds homemade MRI machine

I have more..

This is the result of having two smart and healthy parents, a father who was an electromechanical engineer and a mother that was extremely good at math and a dietician.

SO UNTIL ONE OF YOU LAZY COCKSUCKAS START A PHD IN APPLIED PHYSICS YOU DON'T GET TO TALK SHIT YOU UNDERSTAND ME COCKSUCKA?

>>9827951
>Silicon and electricity can never be intelligent, only proteins and methyl groups can be
>The proof is my own quasi religious beliefs

What happens if someone throws a crate out of their car while in the Hyperloop
I thought everything would be in an enclosed bubble, but the test videos don't show this

People writing articles like this also delude themselves into thinking universal income will be a thing. In reality no one likes parasytes and psychopats are actually determined to do something about them.

>>9829053
>What happens if someone throws a crate out of their car while in the Hyperloop
Well, jeez, let me think.
The tube is depressurized and they open their window to toss something out. What could possibly happen?

>>9829063
Googling "car vacuum tolerance" doesn't give me anything, but I really doubt the average car has a pressurized cabin to allow passengers to breathe if the car is in a vacuum

But you make a good point, are you implying that there's no way the tunnels could operate WITHOUT pressurized bubbles?

>>9829004
>>9829015
Having idols is an important part of puberty, but you do realize that 4chan is R-18?

>>9829072
You don't drive your actual car in a Hyperloop. You ride in special hyperloop cabins.

>>9828175
Yeah watch out, this guy did a thesis in theoretical physics. He doesn't even say if it was a PhD.

>>9829090
https://twitter.com/boringcompany/status/1007325971689758720
I hope to hell you're right and the test tunnel is just pre-vacuum and pre-king-size .

>>9829133
Looking at the comments, this doesn't seem to be a hyperloop at all, but just a testbed for autosteering via those little wheels bolted to the side of the car or something.

>>9828830
Souls are real, but there's no reason why a computer cannot have a soul.

>>9829489
Define what a soul is.

>>9828813
>>9828206
wrong
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6Oigy1i3W4
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravec%27s_paradox
https://blog.piekniewski.info/2018/05/28/ai-winter-is-well-on-its-way/

>>9829030
kek, this the field of "psychology". the only thing i agree with is that we aren't planning enough for biotech.

>>9829605
I've seen that guy on computerphile his views on AI safety and friendly AI show he's a total retard.

>faggot liberal boomer is barely an authority on music
>somehow he is an authority on AI
Fuck this senile pedo.

https://en.softonic.com/articles/the-13-oldest-web-pages-that-are-still-working-today

>>9827951
>If a discipline can build an intelligent being, it will be biotech
>One can put together many many many apps and get the equivalent of a general-purpose intelligence, but it still not intelligence to me
Where's the reasoning for these conclusions?
Is this just more Chinese room, "my intuition says it isn't intelligent so it isn't" bullshit?

>>9829605
>Intelligence can't be computational because of Moravec's paradox
You don't understand Moravec's paradox FYI.
The observation that things we take for granted as simple like how an infant learns to move its body around turn out to be more complicated than things the average person considers complicated like higher maths doesn't mean those two different sorts of tasks are fundamentally different from each other.
In fact what you SHOULD be getting out of that principle when you understand it properly is that what you think is simple and irreducible is really made up of a lot more technical details in reality.
It's not that infantile crawling is non-computational, it's that infantile crawling is not some pure and immediate basic task and has much more going on under the hood than we tend to assume.
The natural things we think are irreducible and simple are just so convoluted and deep in scope that our default behavior towards them is to not even begin thinking about them.
This is good for AI, not bad. If they really were immediate and irreducible like they seem then AI might have an obstacle in them, but the fact they only seem irreducible and are instead filled with all sorts of reducible complexity means AI can do something with it.

>>9829030
>>Silicon and electricity can never be intelligent, only proteins and methyl groups can be
This but unironically.

>>9829741
That dude has a Ph.D in this stuff, he's not stupid and he knows what he's talking about

>>9830184
Because... ?

The IA can't be dangerous today because the IA need to be independent, and to be independent the IA need to function like a human brain.
But today, the human don't know how the human brain function and I think that's not tomorrow when we can understand the human brain.
But that's true, the IA is in the Stone Age, and she will evolve. I think the IA can become independent in 50 years if we understand how to fuction brain.
And for me, now, the IA is not Artificial Intelligence, because we think that's a Intelligence but it's just some words who answer when we talk, but the IA don't have somme abilities.
And this is this abilities who create a Intelligence, the capacity to forget, the capacity to adapt when the situation need.
And for finish, to be a intelligence, you need to understand who you're are and have emotion, but the bots don't know what they are and don't have emotions.
Soooooo to be a intelligence, I think you need to have emotion, you need to have imagination and you need to know what you're are, thats can't be by the bots today, but in 50 years, maybe?

Sorry I don't have a good ortograph, I m not english

Elon is a smart guy but he should stick to rockets.

See the "brain of Boltzmann", I think that's good to understand the AI

>>9827951
>Why everything elon musk fears about AI is wrong
>Written by Al G. Orythm
I for one welcome our new silicon overlords.

>>9828181
>Why do people who mock AI fail to realize that our brain is also a computer?
They do understand it, which is why they fear AI. Who in their right mind would want to create another race of humans? Disgusting

>>9827951
>Scaruffi

>>9828190
>hyper loop meme

>>9827951
>start a thread with a reddit tier OP
>get exclusively reddit tier posts

no surprise here

>>9830188
There's nobody who's an expert in AI safety or friendly AI because there's nobody who's ever built an AGI

>>9828981
If our brain is not a computer, then what is it?

protip: there is no such thing as a "natural intelligence" or unartificial intelligence.
as intelligence is an abstract term that was invented by humans.
all "intelligence" is artificial.

we engage in computational math as well but we just arent consiously aware of it most of the time.

>>9829003
ai steals agency away from people.
true we have less decisions to worry and stress about
but it also prevents us ftom exersizing our own will.
trur people can 'choose to use ai now' but it might only be a matter if time till ai is fully incorporated.

ex: think about why people choose to uss ad block than embracing advertising algorithms.
this happens for the same reason.
becuase its a thing which does stuff in your own interest.
but whats really best for your own interest?
what ai tells you?
or what you tell yourself?

>>9829004
Yeah, good boy, keep sucking Elon Musk dry. I know you're a cute little faggot.

>>9828181
the brain isn't a computer, it's a multicellular organ
it's like saying a falling rock is a computer just because it's possible to simulate it

>>9830662
Shut the fuck up you fucking loser, show your face if you're gonna talk shit at least cunt.

>>9830671
>the brain isn't a computer, it's a multicellular organ

>>9829587
Soul (noun) - A place where normies can lump together their illusions of free will and the mysterious nature of consciousness, and never think about it again.

maybe not the definition you were looking for...

>>9828981
are you retarded? if you can mentally simulate a turing machine then your brain is turing complete, that is, you can compute anything for which there exists an algorithm

>>9830807
Why ad hominem? Can our brains compute things? Perhaps, and in that sense of the word, but as of right now we understand so little about the brain and about intelligence that calling it a computer is an understatement. A computer's purpose is to computer, but the brain either has no purpose, or if it does we have yet to know what it is. Also, while thinking rationally is mathematical, it isn't necessarily mathematical in the same way that an inorganic computer is.

>>9830839
That wasn't actually an ad hominem attack, since it pertained to the argument (i.e., if you are in fact retarded, you may not be able to simulate a turing machine in your mind)

>>9830910
Given the website, I assumed it was being used the other way.

>>9830839
I think it might help if you define what a computer is. No, our brains aren't electronic devices that crunch binary calculations. But in a broader sense, our brains are complex input/output data processors, and are fairly analogous to computers in a lot of ways.

>>9830938
Well it almost certainly was... but it's nice to be charitable

>>9830719
Want to know how I know that you don't belong here?

>>9828181
>computer analogy
Fuck you. Holy shit fuck you so much. I swear the next time I hear another retarded computer analogy to describe the brain I'm going to personally find you and beat the ever living shit out of you until you cry for mercy. You computer """science""" mongoloids need to be purged and stop putting your nose in real science. The brain is NOT a fucking computer. Stop. Fucking stop. For the love of God stop. There is not a single similarity between a computer and the brain, other than your skewed perception since all you've done in your life is sit in front of a screen like the fucking autistic little shit you are. You are a pest. Everytime I read "oh well you know the brain is actually a very advanced computer", I vividly picture a skinny, limp-wristed pale smug piece of shit. He frequently posts in /r/science. He already got his daily dose of dopamine from the upvotes he got from making fun of Trump and posting a Schrodinger's Cat reference. He feels ""edgy" so he comes to 4chan because he think his popscience-tier knowledge of the brain is something worth sharing here. He takes a glance at a post mentioning the brain. He smiles. He knows what's he's about to say. He can't hold it anymore. He takes a sip of his meal replacement drink before putting his fingers to work.
>"Haha well you know consciousness it's a chemical reaction in the brain, it's actually a lot like a computer. Let me explain."
Then he starts to ramble about something he learned in his CS class. He pats himself on the back. He just teached another ignorant fool about how the brain is just a computer. Because that's all there is right? Computers. Reality is the matrix! This is all just a simulation!. You fucking manchild... You fucking disgrace of a human.
>"brain gombuter :DDD"
God, just thinking about you makes my blood boil. I can't believe I share a reality with people like you. It honestly brings me suffering.

>>9830967
>His professor told him computer analogies are bad and now he spergs out whenever he sees one
People went way too far in the opposite direction on this issue.
Yes, brains aren't identical to mechanical computers.
But no, the computer analogy isn't completely off base either.
There isn't any evidence suggesting what the brain does is somehow fundamentally non-computable.
Unless you count shit like Searle's retarded Chinese room argument.
At the most basic level the brain is taking in information and producing outputs, that's computation.
Is it the same as a backprop network?
No.
Is it still doing the same basic thing?
Yes. Walking for example is a known optimized behavior the brain produces.
It isn't doing gradient descent, but it is solving an optimization problem.

“Nothing artificial can be intelligent”

Retard thinks souls are real.

>>9830967
Nice copy pasta. How is an information-processing lump not a computer, an information processing lump?

>>9830637
AI is doubtless smarter so what the AI tells you. Simple as that.

most "AI" today is extremely task specific, start worrying when we are talking about sentient AI

>>9830967
I feel you my fellow triggered robot.

>>9828190
>butthurt leftist detected
Musk's said that he's a socialist. It makes sense too as his company's bleeding money just as fast as a socialist governemnt would.