/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9784295
>my arbitrary units are better than yours
>aren't I so smart

>>9784295
>How is the foot defined

One billionth of the distance traveled by light in a second

The NIST doesn't have a standard pound. In fact, the NIST operates only on SI units and applies a conversion factor to get the "standard pound". So for amerifats, "standard pound" is still based off the standard kg.

>>9784295
>How is the foot defined?
It is actually defined by the standard kilogram
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmSJXC6_qQ8

>>9784314
I really want to email this to my data science professor

>>9784295
The old definitions were more correct than the new. Now it's all tied to "the speed of light" as if that's a constant. The path of light is bent or slowed by gravity, gravity does not bend or slow space time. Using light as the constant for all our units is like using a rubber band for a ruler, stretch it shrink it, it's all relative amirite.

>>9784722
Example.
1 second equals 1/60th of a minute. A minute being 1/60th of a hour. Therefore a second is "the second division of a hour by sixty."
Now si units will differ on this, 1 hour is 1/24th the length of time it takes for Earth to complete a rotation. Now that is very constant IMO. However si unit second is not equal to 1/60th of 1/60th of 1/24th of a day. No, si unit second is a variable dependant upon the local gravity, velocity of the clock, and other such nonsense, like temperature even topkek.

>>9784295
>This is the standard Kilogram in Paris. Where is the standard Pound?
I don't think I could keep a straight face long enough to post garbage like this.

> The meter is defined as the distance light travels in 1 / 299,792,458 seconds. How is the foot defined?
The distance light travels in 30,48 / 299.792.458 s.

>>9784743
Example;
Me and you have watches, but you are richer than me so you have a spaceship too, I don't. I sit in the grass and watch you take off from Earth at Noon on a Monday. You go really far really fast, like speed of light ish fast, relativistic effects are felt for you and your spaceship. You land on Earth the next day and we compare our watches, mine says Noon again you were gone for 24hours. No matter what your watch says, you were gone for 24hours. No matter what "relativistic effects" you and your spaceship FEEL you have travelled only for 24 hours. 1 day.

>>9784295
Light wasn't always 299,792,458 meters per second.
The recursive use of meter > speed of light < meter is just as arbitrary as a foot or an inch.

It really doesnt matter what measurement system anyone uses if it's used by everyone locally.

The world has picked literally the most pointless thing to bully USA about.

Yes we know and use metric too.

>>9784752
>using , for the decimal point
>using . for spacers

Fuck off third worlder.

>>9784295
Americans BTFO

>>9784314
http://articles.latimes.com/1999/oct/01/news/mn-17288

>NASA lost its $125-million Mars Climate Orbiter because spacecraft engineers failed to convert from English to metric measurements when exchanging vital data before the craft was launched, space agency officials said Thursday.

Amerisharts literally crash multimillion dollar spacecraft because they are too stupid to use the metric system.

>>9784314
That is some fantastic quality bait.

>>9784780
>doesn't know how to spell comma or period
no, it is you that is the third worlder

>>9784712
do it

>>9784814

>>9785500
as if (((he))) could even ride a horse

>>9784814
>hurr durr it could only happen with imperial

Same would have happened if one was using cm and the other mm.

>>9784765
not really though. it's not like they just set up a meter-long space and measured the light that ran through it.

you only need to know how long a second is

>>9785524
This sounds like a question for science to answer.
My $$ is on no and we get a gif as glorious as the time a bald eagle nearly bit his hand off.

>>9784314
hahahaha wtf lmao what is that water thing?

>>9784814
More like this would have never happened if they didn't use retarded metric units.

>>9784780
And you didn't even notice that the decimal is in the wrong place....

>>9785559
More like when one side is using mks and the other cgs. Like the mistake in defining the foot with light.

>>9785559
Pretty unlikely.
With metric to imperial most of the similar units are around 2-2.5x different, mm to cm is 10x different.

>>9785584
Metric was the gold standard during the earlier space programs.

>>9784295
pffff what loser uses kilograms or meters? Switch to Planck units

>>9784295
Nobody in the thread mentioned that a pound is not a unit of mass...

>>9785685
touche

>>9784295
>This is the standard Kilogram in Paris.
>implying a "magic rock" should be the basis for a measuring system

>>9785009
Sure, but the Euro date part is perfectly accurate.
Decimal numbers go from general to specific.
The "American" date section is actually showing the ISO8601 international standard which is superior to both American and Euro dates.
And while Kelvin, not Celsius is the SI standard,
if we're going to use a system where zero degrees isn't really zero, I like Fahrenheit better.
I'll never use boiling and freezing in the same context (except scientific research which should use Kelvin).
Instead, wouldn't it be nice if the climate where most people lived varied at most from zero to 100? Oh yeah, that's Fahrenheit.

>>9785694
>>implying a "magic rock" should be the basis for a measuring system
It isn't.
It also isn't the only one. There are several kept around the world. It's also not a rock, they're man made.
Also, also, the pound is defined by it.

>>9785715
>magic rocks made by wizards

>>9785715
Really. If I have 1 kg, how many pounds is that? What if I take 1kg to the moon, how many pounds is that?

>>9785748
Kilogram is used to measure both weight and mass.

>>9785724
Units of measure require some standard.
So we make a standard that will define the unit.

>>9784295

All of those are officially defined in terms of SI units.

>>9785759
So why not cut out the middleman and switch to SI units? Not everything has to be about nationalism. If your rockets are falling out of the sky and your bridges are collapsing, maybe it's time to lose the medieval freedumb-units and use the metric system like literally 99% if the civilized world.

>>9785715
>It isn't.
Oh, but it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilogram#Definition
>. It is also the only SI unit that is still directly defined by an artefact rather than a fundamental physical property that can be independently reproduced in different laboratories.
>Three other base units (cd, A, mol) and 17 derived units (N, Pa, J, W, C, V, F, Ω, S, Wb, T, H, kat, Gy, Sv, lm, lx) in the SI system are defined in relation to the kilogram, and thus its stability is important.
>The definitions of only eight other named SI units do not depend on the kilogram

>>9785715
>It also isn't the only one. There are several kept around the world.
It's the only one that counts, and it's weight is changing.
https://www.livescience.com/26017-kilogram-gained-weight.html

>>9785715
>It's also not a rock, they're man made.
A man-made, highly refined rock.

>>9785715
>Also, also, the pound is defined by it.
I'll pound your mom.

>>9785767
>So why not cut out the middleman and switch to SI units? Not everything has to be about nationalism.
Almost every country on Earth uses a mix of SI and traditional units.
The US isn't particularly special in this regard.

>>9785767

When Arianespace can build a workable reusable rocket, then we'll consider switching to SI.

>>9785814
It isn't a magic rock, so a magic rock isn't the basis of the definition of a kilogram.

>It's the only one that counts, and it's weight is changing.
The one that counts is the one whose weight isn't changing. It is the copies that are actually used whose weights are changing relative to the IPK.

Your definition of rock is very loose.

Like your mom.

>>9785829
>It isn't a magic rock
Just wrap quotes around "magic", it that's essentially what it is, a man-made, highly refined rock that we pretend is "magically" unchanging.

>>9785829
>It is the copies that are actually used whose weights are changing relative to the IPK.
Jesus dude. "relative to the IPK"? The IPK is changing too, you're just using it as a base to describe the other "magic rocks.".
Thanks for proving me right about "rock that we pretend is magically unchanging", above.

>Like your mom.
My mom was born 1n 1942. I can't help but think if you're fucking her, that's more a dig on you than her.

>>9784314
great bait
had a good laugh

>>9784295
just use whatever metric system you're more comfortable with.

the used metric system just changes the describtion of the answer, but the answer itself is always the same. it doesn't matter if you calculate in meter, foot or lightyears. the results stay the same.

>>9784314

>>9784314
Fpbp

>>9784295
Every other system of units / unit is defined by the International System of Units units, lad. There's no reason to have multiple standards when SI's will always be more advanced (due to the internationality of it).

English standard units of length are easier to use for construction because they can be approximated quickly with comparisons of the human body, which they were modelled after. In many countries where SI is the standard, construction materials are still often denoted using English standard.

Both systems are arbitrary though, and measurement systems are by their very nature imprecise. This is so because everything is relative, and as others have pointed out constantly in flux. When I make accurate length measurements, I don't pull out a tape measure -> I take my material and cut or add to it based on the length for where it's going. Transporting information using measurement systems adds an extra step in an already lossy process.

Why dont they make standard units for mass based off the weight of an electron or hydrogen or something like they made Avocado's number out of Carbon 14?

>>9786052
Because it needs to be practical to measure, since it's going to be used to create comparison units weights for scale production

>>9784314
basedmetric system

>>9785619
>With metric to imperial most of the similar units are around 2-2.5x different, mm to cm is 10x different.

That's still an order of magnitude.

>Metric was the gold standard during the earlier space programs.

Imperial was the gold standard during the industrial revolution.

>>9785582
>he doesn't know about absolute scales like Kelvin and Rankine

Behold the average pro-SI brainlet

>>9786167
>Imperial was the gold standard during the industrial revolution.
And the industrial revolution fucked up everything while the Apollo program landed men on the moon safely.

>>9785851
>The IPK is changing too, you're just using it as a base to describe the other "magic rocks.".
How do you tell if the IPK is changing weight when it is the reference for what it should weigh?

> "rock that we pretend is magically unchanging"
Have you seen what they keep it in? The main reason the copies are changing weight is because people use those when they need to do really accurate comparative measurements.
The IPK is the least handled of all of them.

>>9785694
Also that magic rock is losing weight making it worthless.

>Euros in charge of doing anything right

>>9784295
Why doesn't /sci/ make its own set of units?

new length: 1 billionth of the distance light travels in second = 0.9836 feet
new mass: the weight of 1/60th of a cubic new length = 0.99 pounds
new mole: the number of C12 atoms in 1/12 the new mass = 1.34*10^27
new charge: 1 billionth of a new mole of electrons = 0.215C
...

>>9784712
>implying I'm not in this thread right now

>>9786225
>How do you tell if the IPK is changing weight when it is the reference for what it should weigh?
There are about 40 kilogram prototypes, all of them are changing relative to each other.
You's have to believe in actual magic to believe the "one weight to rule them all" was the only one that wasn't actually changing.

>>9786225
>How do you tell if the IPK is changing weight when it is the reference for what it should weigh?
There are about 40 kilogram prototypes, all of them are changing relative to each other.
You'd have to believe in actual magic to believe the "one weight to rule them all" was the only one that wasn't actually changing.

>>9785703
>Instead, wouldn't it be nice if the climate where most people lived varied at most from zero to 100? Oh yeah, that's Fahrenheit.
Absolutely disgusting. We don't need, and we can't intuitively understand, a scale with that much precision. Can you imagine how 54°F feels vs 58°?
I live in America and I switched to Celsius. I know on 4chan you'll interpret this as signalling how edgy and contrarian I am, but I'm being completely sincere when I say that Celsius gives me a much better intuitive understand of how the temperature is going to feel than Fahrenheit did.
It's simple:
<0: scary negative number, avoid spending time outside
0-10: cold, bundle up
11-20: chilly, long sleeves if staying outside
21-30: warm, maximum comfiness
>30: hot, whatever I wear will probably get sweaty
Five simple ranges.

>>9784314
Beautiful

>>9786381
><0: scary negative number, avoid spending time outside
So you're saying you're a pussy?
Check.

>>9786276
your length depends on the length of a second, which is changing as the moon gets further away. better would be to stick with something absolute. Such as the 21.1cm "hydrogen line" wave length.

I measure everything, you know what to call me. 111

>>9784314

>>9784743
No, boi. SI units are defined in terms of speed of light *in vacuum and in absence of any gravitational field.* That is a constant.

>>9784709
Oh the irony...

>>9784295
>How is the foot defined? Is it defined as the length of a big black cock?
keked, poor americucks.

What's so special about your rock? It's basically a big black cock on a pedestal in a museum somewhere, there's no difference

>>9784814
And the challenger explosion which was a huge financial cost as well as lives lost was due to not accurately measuring the temperature the an O-ring to pendent a well known problem. Some guy didn't let the equipment calibrate for the prescribed time because it was cold.

>>9785450
Inferring a lack of ability in spelling due to using shorthand notation.

How do you do math? Have fun writing the paragraphs that takes the test of the world one line to write.

Fuck off third worlder

>>9784295
>wasting precious time thinking about complete joke units made by literal inbred euro white TRASH.

When I was in college, the metric system was drilled into my head. kg this, m that, etc.

Then, after I graduated and got into the real world and got a real job, I learned to *DESPISE* the fucking metric system. You just absolutely cannot do calculations in your head while you're trying to think on your feet, and get shit done. I swear to fucking Christ, how the fuck shit gets built overseas that doesn't fall completely apart, I'll never understand it.

I was the Sr. Lab Tech of an architectural engineering firm. I quickly learned why the metric system sucks fucking donkey balls, and you can't fucking use it for real, actual work. It's because the metric system is in base10, while standard is base12. It's a fuckton easier to do math in your head in base 12 than base 10, because all calculations come out to whole numbers.

What's 1/2 of 10? 5.
What's 1/4? 2.5
1/3? 3.3333...
1/6? Who the fuck knows?

Now, what's 1/2 of 12? 6
1/3? 4
1/4? 3
1/6? 2
3/4? 9

What's 1/3rd of 48? 16. (This is why studs, rafters, and joists are 16" on center).

All those easily calculable, whole numbers makes shit cake.

inb4 "lol can't change units easy!"

Guess what? Nobody gives two flying fucks! You pick a unit and go with it! Be it feet, inches, miles, yards, whatever. Just fucking ride. Changing units is what fucks you up when trying to build shit. Not one soul in the entire Universe gives a single solitary fuck how many picometers are in a petameter. The question is moot. It doesn't fucking matter.

>>9785573
But the second also has a retarded arbitrary definition. Something like 9 billion energy level transitions of a caesium atom.