/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9767255
there's no use for derivatives in every day life.

>>9767255
>derivative

It's 'differentiate'

>>9767258
People learn tons of shit in high school for which there is little use in everyday life. That's part of a general education. This can't be the reason.

>>9767258
Highschool physics

>>9767255
Says who? Most STEM students which are in math, physics, or engineering for undergrad will take calculus in high school and smart ones will be done with calc 3 or higher before entering undergrad. I took calc 2 in high school but honestly took calc 1 and 2 again just to get an easy gpa boost lol. Had a full ride so didnt matter

>>9767255
>it's another yuropoor inferiority complex thread

>>9767325
there's no use for high school physics in every day life.

>>9767378
College physics

>>9767255
despite it all, america is still produces the best physics phds. how misguided are you?

>>9767255
Too many GE classes to dumb the population down. Idk honestly.

General Ed classes truly are a problem though. Literally a waste of time.

They give you NO marketable skills.

Also, tbf, I learned derivatives in algebra 2 in highschool. Got an A. Forgot everything.

I took calculus in college. Forgot everything.

I forgot everything I studied and I have taken like 130 units.

This is why school is so pointless to me. You study a lot just to forget almost everything and for those that say they retained a lot, I'm calling bullshit.

I'm willing to bet my ass that if I made you retake every test you have ever taken in your life, you would fail unless I allowed you to study (which would defeat the purpose since the point I'm making is that you did indeed forget everything hence why you need to study).

In all fairness, like 90%+ of all jobs might go up to algebra 1 and that's it so being able to do a derivative won't make you kore employable which in turn makes learning it pointless.

>>9767255
Also, like what percent of jobs are stem jobs? Like 10%? It's pointless to most people.

>>9767258
(You)

Most people who study math or science learn basic calculus around our sophomore/junior year

>>9767947
>Questioning authority = dumb
>Author takes kids asking a question personally
yikes

>>9767975
no the kids who ask these questions 100% think they're cheeky and funny and they're just trying to derail the class and make his friends laugh

>>9767975
>Asking dumb questions = dumb
I see nothing wrong with this

>>9767255
>Why do Americans only learn the derivative during their first year of STEM studies ?
Contrary to your retarded anti-American propaganda, a similar percentage of people learn calculus in all countries. While High School is the default path to working life or higher studies in the US, most other nations divide the age cohort into gymnasiums (High School with optional AP-level material) and vocational colleges (where you learn plumbing, construction, welding etc.). I am almost certain that the majority of people in your country do not attend such gymnasiums, nor do most of the students attending those schools take the more difficult AP maths/physics classes.

tl;dr: the retards are weeded out at an earlier stage in your socialist shithole

>>9767845
>This is why school is so pointless to me. You study a lot just to forget almost everything and for those that say they retained a lot, I'm calling bullshit.
Why is it so hard for you to imagine that your fellow university students may simply be much smarter than you, thus enabling them to retain information and apply it in real-world scenarios?

>I'm willing to bet my ass that if I made you retake every test you have ever taken in your life, you would fail unless I allowed you to study (which would defeat the purpose since the point I'm making is that you did indeed forget everything hence why you need to study).
Most university students are brainlets. This is not news.
>In all fairness, like 90%+ of all jobs might go up to algebra 1 and that's it so being able to do a derivative won't make you kore employable which in turn makes learning it pointless.
Anything related to engineering will require more advanced mathematics than algebra 1.

>>9767978
source?
>>9767979
>it's dumb because it's dumb
No u

>>9767947
>>9767975
If someone is dumb enough to be stuck teaching school children for next to minimum wage, not having them get mad at you at least once is proof that you're braindead.
>>9767978
Not the case. They genuinely don't see a point in learning things they can't use.
>>9767979
The question isn't dumb. Almost nobody will ever use imaginary numbers practically, even lots of accomplished academics (engies don't count as accomplished). If you can't give a real answer to the question, you're the dumb one.

>>9767982
Because most of them don't even get better grades than me and I remember nothing from highschool

>>9767986
>i'm smart because i get good grades
yikes

>>9767987
>The average person is smarter than me because they get bad grades.
yikes

>>9767982
>Why is it so hard for you to imagine that your fellow university students may simply be much smarter than you, thus enabling them to retain information and apply it in real-world scenarios?

I was iver a 3.0 student. Memory =/= smart. Talk about a hilariously erroneous assumption.

Also, like I said, THINK ABOUT IT. If I were to give you EVERY TEST YOU HAVE EVER TAKEN WITHOUT STUDYING, CHANCES ARE YOU WOULD BOMB IT

You are DELUSIONAL if you think you retained most of anything unless you habe photographic memory.

>Most university students are brainlets. This is not news.

You just contradicted yourself. "Fellow university students may simply be much smarter than you" then say they are brainlets. Kek.

Anyways, you probably aren't smarter than me unless you majored in cs or engineering.

>Anything related to engineering will require more advanced mathematics than algebra 1.

No fucking shit hence why I said 90% and not 100%. Rip analytical thinking.

Fact: MOST JOBS IN THE U.S. DON'T REQUIRE MORE THAN ALGEBRA 1.

No shit some jobs do but MOST don't. Period.

>>9767985
>stuck teaching school children for next to minimum wage
Not everyone here is an amerifat burger
>>9767987
>I'm smarter than the kids that get higher grades than me, I just don't try
We don't either
>B-B-But I purposefully answer the questions incorrectly
Stop sabotaging yourself

>>9768021
>Not everyone here is an amerifat burger
Don't most first-world countries give teachers shit pay?

>>9768023
Depends on the state. Tbh, some are overpaid considering how pointless 95% of school is. Especially highschool. Nothing but pointless and useless general ed classes that don't even make people marketable.

An employer won't give a single SHIT over how many general ed classes you have taken.

>>9768015
Near perfect gpa as a mech eng. Literally have studied for less than half a dozen tests

>>9768015
>I was iver a 3.0 student. Memory =/= smart. Talk about a hilariously erroneous assumption.
Smart people don´t memorize - they connect concepts to applications, which allows intuitive inferences to be made.
>Also, like I said, THINK ABOUT IT. If I were to give you EVERY TEST YOU HAVE EVER TAKEN WITHOUT STUDYING, CHANCES ARE YOU WOULD BOMB IT
You´re probably right, but less obscure things - such as most subjects in Calculus - should not be forgotten.
>You are DELUSIONAL if you think you retained most of anything unless you habe photographic memory.
Mathematics and physics doesn´t require a photographic memory; they require a mediocre memory, and a great capacity to infer one thing from another using intuition and logical reasoning - in other words, they require intelligence.

>You just contradicted yourself. "Fellow university students may simply be much smarter than you" then say they are brainlets. Kek.
Where is the contradiction? I merely noted that MOST students are brainlets, and that some students may be much smarter than you. If you study stem, my assumptions are very likely correct.

>Anyways, you probably aren't smarter than me unless you majored in cs or engineering.
I study civil engineering at the best university in northern European country.

>No shit some jobs do but MOST don't. Period.
What most jobs require should be of little interest to anyone striving for a successful career in business, engineering, academia, government or law.

>>9768035
What courses have you taken? As a student of mechanical enginering, you should´ve taken at least these courses: linear algebra, Calc 1 (single variable), Calc 2 (multivariable), Calc 3 (vector differential calculus), thermodynamics, electromagnetism, intro to programming (in scala, Python or some similar language), computer assisted tools in engineering, continuum mechanics, solid mechanics, intro to statics and dynamics, fluid mechanics, intro to materials science, and several courses on design and calculation related to mechanical engineering.

I find it very hard to believe that you studied for less than half a dozen of these courses.

>>9768042
>Smart people don´t memorize - they connect concepts to applications, which allows intuitive inferences to be made

Idk about that. Have you ever taken accounting? Ya you learn concepts but it requires a shit ton of memorizing too.

Actually, MOST majors require a lot of memorizing for tests such as nursing.

>Mathematics and physics doesn´t require a photographic memory; they require a mediocre memory, and a great capacity to infer one thing from another using intuition and logical reasoning - in other words, they require intelligence

Take an accounting class and you will see "analytical thinking" isn't the only thing required in tests.

>that some students may be much smarter than you

Exactly. SOME. Not MOST.

>What most jobs require should be of little interest to anyone striving for a successful career in business, engineering, academia, government or law.

Not looking at reality then. Point I am making has to do with the OP. They asked why are americans not great in math and the answer is damn obvious.

It is because of how IRRELEVANT it is in the working world except for a small percentage of people.

>>9768049
>Idk about that. Have you ever taken accounting? Ya you learn concepts but it requires a shit ton of memorizing too.
>Actually, MOST majors require a lot of memorizing for tests such as nursing.
>Take an accounting class and you will see "analytical thinking" isn't the only thing required in tests.

>Not looking at reality then. Point I am making has to do with the OP. They asked why are americans not great in math and the answer is damn obvious.
>It is because of how IRRELEVANT it is in the working world except for a small percentage of people.
The answer actually lies in the normal distribution of intelligence, which is roughly equal and centered around the same values in every western country. The percentage of people capable of learning math beyond basic algebra is very small in every country.

>>9767980
not OP but
>weeding out retards
>socialist shithole
I fucking wish my socialist shithole weeded people out more aggresively

>>9768052
No because it has to do with the job market.

Not all jobs are those high paying ones.

Only about 30% of jobs actually require a degree here while the rest will simply be underemployed.

Example? A business admin/management degree = over a 50% underemployement rate

Lawyers have about a 44.9% underemployement rate as a whole http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/job_market_for_would-be_lawyers_is_bleaker_than_it_looks_analysis_says/

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/04/53-of-recent-college-grads-are-jobless-or-underemployed-how/256237/

Also, that aside, let's look at a perfect world.

Let's say there was a degree that could be obtained in 6 months. It has every major (law, nursing, engineering, etc.). Let's also say that humans were extremely intelligent to the point where they got perfect scores and retained everything. Let's say 100% of the population obtained this degree. All hypothetical.

So... that's the perfect world, right?

Well... not really because "getting educated" doesn't fix the job market/create new jobs.

Someome has to be the bookkeeper, call center agent, janitor, cashier, truck driver, warehouse labor worker, etc.

The cold reality is that currently, most jobs in the u.s. don't require much knowledge from school which results in underemployement and the less someome practices something, the more likely it is for them to forget it.

Point is in the american job market, education isn't the problem in itself (it is inefficient due to stupid GE classes and slow paced classes i.e. 9 units every 5 weeks for most classes is a good pace, not 16 weeks), the market itself simply doesn't demand much education despite what the propaganda says (all this propoganda does is increase competition among the population which results in employers being able to be picky and offering lower pay i.e. an employer's market)

Not everyone can be an engineer for instance. Difficulty aside, some people simply hate the material.

>>9768094
>No because it has to do with the job market.
Mathematical ability has nothing to do with the job market and everything to do with intelligence, which is highly heritable and very unevenly distributed.
>Not everyone can be an engineer for instance. Difficulty aside, some people simply hate the material.
Ditto.

>>9767258
reading your car speedometer is literally interpreting a derivative of your position

>>9768094

Too add to your point I'm pretty sure there currently isn't even enough STEM jobs to satisfy the top 5% of the U.S. population which consists of around 326 million people.

So yeah, everyone isn't going to get a job that even needs STEM related knowledge or training.

>>9768030
Yeah but in california a 1300 sqft house is like $300-400k, even seen a 800sqft for like 700k. Shit state

>>9767995
Smart boi over here

>>9768408
Ya, shit state. Low median wage too (19.67 meaning 50%of people make less than that an hr here)

>>9767255
American here, I learned how to use derivatives when I was 12. I read my brothers book and my dad helped me learn.

>>9767980
>I am almost certain that the majority of people in your country do not attend such gymnasiums
In France more than half join high school, they all learn the derivative the first year and specialize the second year (scientific class, where they learn up to simple diff equations, economical / literature, where they learn up to integration, and technological class which is made for retards and teach american tier math)?

>>9769343
Get your elitist ass out of here. The POINT is it's POINTLESS to learn things that WON'T make people marketable. Period. Why learn random shit that doesn't transition to an actual job?

Well rounded = subjective. All countries should primarily focus on educating people with MARKETABLE SKILLS, not random bullshit.

"I'm homeless but at least I'm 'well-rounded'"

Anyways, I saw derivatives in my 2nd yr. Guess what? It was pointless. Only a SMALL percentage of jobs even need it.

When looking at the moon from our distant perspective on earth we see the moon and all other planets in a 2D perspective.

This made mankind question (Eventually after long centuries of thought) are the planets really just flat 2D objects (Remember at this time before realising the planets where round people also thought earth was flat because all planets they saw where flat) or coyuld they perhaps like what we see at the small scale on earth be 3Dimensional like us humans and rocks and water and plants. So they took on a new perspective and through mathematics they realised that the planets where truly round. And following this realised earth was truly round by gaining a new perspective.

If mankind is to flourish and evolve we must develope new perspectives or else we get nowhere so all things considered viewing the earth as flat would be an ancient perspective, not a modern one backed by science astrophysics and mathematics.

THIS IS APLICABLE TO THIS TOPIC OF DISCUSSION

>>9769532
Most of jobs don't require any knowledge at all you fucking retard. Why not ending school at 8 ?
Your reasoning exemplifies why Ameridumbs are the laughing stock of the world.

>>9769852
And you are the biggest DUMBASS on this planet to think it's better to take random as FUCK classes you will never see again.

I had a 4.13 one time, 7 clubs, mvp of track, etc.

I was probably a WAY better highschool than YOU and guess what? That amounted to SHIT.


Here's the problem. YOU are dogmatic. YOU can't think outside the BOX.

Propaganda = YOU have been institutionalized to NEVER question the system.

You are pathetic.

>>9769865
*never use again

Yay for trivia knowledge.

"I'm homeless BUT AT LEAST I'M WELL ROUNDED durr hurr".

GE classes are a waste of time.

>>9769865
*highschool student

>>9769852
I know this is a hard question to answer for a brainlet but let me ask you this.

WHY should I care about bullshit classes that won't help me make money??????

To be "well rounded"? Well rounded = subjective. You need a brain to see that.

>>9769877
Let me word it better. *why should I care about classes that will have NOTHING to do with my career path?

>>9769865
Dude American marks are absolutely worthless, even the Harvard math major is dumber than the average Chinese middle schooler so stop bragging about your worthless meme tier marks you Ameridumb.

You don't seem to understand the derivative is something as simple as multiplication, and that's the only jobs that require any kind of knowledge beside writing skills are STEM related jobs, thus the only things worth teaching at school is math, specially very elementary math like the derivative.

>>9768120

>>9769881
>even the Harvard math major is dumber than the average

Again, irrelevant to the WORKING WORLD but, would still lile to see a source.

You seem to think IRRELEVANT knowledge is somehow useful. How in the hell is that the case? Explain.

>specially very elementary math like the derivative.

I learned that in algebra 2 and got an A.


You are missing the POINT. The POINT is learning that was pointless to me. I NEVER use it. Most people will never use it unless doing an uncommon job.

>>9769887
>The POINT is learning that was pointless to me. I NEVER use it. Most people will never use it unless doing an uncommon job.
The Chinese literally assfucked "White Americans." They all do better as school than you, focused on learning math, leave with more knowledge and make twice more money than you.

>>9769899
Twice more than me?

Looks like you have no idea how the job market works lmao >>9768094

You don't even know how underemployement works.

I also prefer a low stress environment over making a little more. Why do a job you will hate? Durr

>>9769899
uh what?

Despite the fact they do better than Americans in math the GDP per capita is still absolute garbage.

This is one of the dumbest posts I've read today, and that's saying a lot considering it's /sci/

Either you're Chinese, a troll, or retarded.

But hey, what's the difference?

>>9769899
Also,good job not citing that harvard stat.

Did you pull that out of you ass? If not, cite the source.

And again, you missed the god damn point. Talk about illiterate. Shit education or shit genetics on your part but I'll say it again.

Most of school is irrelevant to people. People should just be taught algebra 1 by force (BUT should be given the option to go higher if they want), english by force (after highschool, no more. I learned literally nothing new from the english classes I was forced to take in college), and most importantly, marketable skills that will help people either land jobs or be able to become entrepreneurs

>>9767845
Behold, the ultimate brainlet.

>>9767255
I was done with multivariable calculus by my first year as an undergrad. I took calculus 1 in high school. I don't think I'm bad at math, and I don't think my peers were bad at math either.

>>9767255
Aren't the first 3 correct?

>>9769955
Ur mom

>>9769911
>>9769917
Not understanding that he speaks about Chinese Americans

>>9769967
t. Ameridumb

>>9767285
>Why do Americans only learn the differentiate
>the differentiate
ok anon

Why do Americans only learn the derivative during their first year of STEM studies? Do you need more than a year to be sure you have them down? We are paying for these classes. Why are so many Americans (at least in the usa) bad at math (beyond a highschool level)? We have a very high population and need only about 10-15% to be well educated in math. When we spend so much on school we tend to take classes we need to further our careers not our intellectual education. And unfortunately there's not much to do to correct our laziness, we have computers to do all the thinking for the majority of tasks and we have that 10-15% (and we can always bring more mathematicians in from other countries)to throw money at when we dont have a program to do it for us.

Our STEM programs are being destroyed by the cancer of multiculturalism.
Because, of course, the only reason the percentages of women, blacks and minorities don't match the ratio of the general population is bigotry. It couldn't possibly be that maybe in the real world everyone is NOT equal.
The truth can be ugly, but when you block the light of truth you create a darkness where evil thrives.

>>9769967
Holy shit. Here, I actually feel bad for you:
1. diverges to infinity
2. 256
3. -2,-2, 2i, -2i

>>9770412
>multiculturalism
only one culture is at fault

>>9767255
Common Core is the most abysmally autistic method you idiots teach to each other.