/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9726725
It's a chemical that binds to receptors in your brain producing visual and possibly aural hallucinations

>>9726725
the third eye...
>>9726731
>bind
sounds like computer science

>>9726739
>sounds like computer science
It is exactly that in a literal sense

>>9726731
The real mystery is why everyone reports similar trips.

>>9726773
Not really because everyones brain works similarly. For example, even though not everyone might perceive "red" the exact same way, we all agree that it is "red" meaning that all of our brains process the light input similarly.

Pulling an example from other chemicals, I feel that salvia divinorum trips are "spirally" and many people I've talked to agree, but that's probably because it's binding to the same receptors and therefore causing similar output

>>9726776
You don't seem to understand.
I'm not arguing in pro of mysticism or esoteric bs, the psychedelic trip of DMT isn't just a hallucinogenic experience, there is enough resemblance with what little we know about consciousness and death and the DMT effect.
Shit like meeting so called intelligent beings only happens if the subject has a "breakthrough", which doesn't always happens regardless of the amount taken. The threshold for these experiences isn't tied to dosage. Just one of the few peculiarities.

>>9726833
None of what you said invalidates what I've said and moreover shows that you either haven't comprehended or thought about what I've said enough to understand it.

The dosage of DMT varies wildly from person to person just like LSD and these "intelligent beings" are imaginary constructs like the people in your dreams. You also need to smoke enough salvinorin A to "breakthrough" with salvia and acheive a fully dissociative trip and complex hallucinations so that's not really a special mechanic

The interesting thing to me about DMT trips is how crisply geometrical the visuals are. On acid or shrooms my visuals are basically: objects breathing, shadows warping, colors leaking into each other and shifting to different colors. With my eyes closed it can be much more complex but it’s all still very amorphous and if I could freeze a frame of it it would consist mostly or entirely of uneven, abstract shapes.

DMT is totally different. It’s all straight lines, circles/wheels, and arcs. They appear perfectly orderly as if they were drawn by rulers and compasses. Also the colors are more distinct, like instead of being all shadowy and leaking into one another I will for example have one part of my field of vision be perfectly uniform pink and another part green. It’s hard to describe. But yeah it’s all just so much more orderly and precise - not to mention so strong. As for meeting other creatures or beings I’ve yet to experience that.

>>9726851
Surely you can post the sauce to such claims.
There is more to these substances the just the trip, hallucinogenic effects aside, we know that at the very least that the CIA had enough reason to illegally experiment on humans with the intention of brainwashing the subjects, not to believe that the trips where real or fake, but to completely replace the subject's personality.
How or why this can be achieved isn't even publicly disclosed, which is why I decided to ask.

>It's just your imagination bro
Maybe, but even then there's more to learn from these substances.

>>9726872
>Surely you can post the sauce to such claims
>There is more to these substances the just the trip, hallucinogenic effects aside
>the CIA had enough reason to illegally experiment on humans with the intention of brainwashing the subjects
>completely replace the subject's personality.
>How or why this can be achieved isn't even publicly disclosed, which is why I decided to ask.
>Maybe, but even then there's more to learn from these substances.
Wew, lad. Put down the tinfoil hat and stop buying crystals.

If you don't know the objective things that I've stated about these drugs then you have not done enough research to have formed an educated opinion. The subjective things I've said don't require any other source than myself because they are subjective.

People's personalities have been drastically changed by head injuries, mid-life crisises, mental illness, change of habits (including drug use), sudden epiphany, ect. so it shouldn't come as a shock that brain altering chemicals can similarly alter your brain. It's basically just a chemical labotamy performed with hallucinogens and remember that LSD was used to this ends in the same program.

There's nothing special going on here, just enjoy the trip and have fun exploring the mindscape generated by your subconscious

>>9726913
>>9726872
I forgot to mention that you should also keep in mind that the CIA's experiments in this vain are largely considered failures which is why the information was eventually released to the public instead of becoming standard operations

>>9726931
>They found nothing so they stopped
Schlomo get the fuck out

>>9726870
I have heard this. I'm interested in wether the "fractals" people talk about are actually fractals in the mathematic sense, but I can't figure out any way that you could check

>>9726949
They sure “look” like fractals or like mandalas but they come and go so fast and they don’t exactly hold still so I don’t know. Considering how prevalent fractals are in nature I wouldn’t be surprised.

>>9726851
>you either haven't comprehended or thought about what I've said enough to understand it.

That's a failure on your part, not his.

>>9726943
More like
>Waterboarding was a more effective means to an end
But sure, the CIA is still doing MK-ULTRA and reprogramming people like computers and I'm either delusional or a shill

Non-/x/ discussion of DMT is a good topic for a thread. Have a bump in hopes of making this board less retarded and /pol/-infested.

>>9726959
Even so, I'm not his damn teacher or his babysitter. If I tried to explain how brains work to every hippy and burnout that thought drugs we're magic I'd be at the drum circle for all eternity

>>9726957
>Considering how prevalent fractals are in nature I wouldn’t be surprised.
That's exactly what spurs my interest. I need to find a legal setting to experiment in

>>9726725
The entire hippie culture was manifactured by the CIA MkUltra. Many of your favourite rockstars are agents. Think of bands like The Doors.


The term schizomimetic was rebranded to psychadelic. Military-grade incapacitating agents were rebranded into recreational drugs.

Ayahuasca tourist culture was created in South America. LSD was created by the CIA. The entire backstory to Hoffman is just a fake story. Shrooms have been consumed in the past by everyone around the globe and caused ergotism. Gradually the mind became schizophrenic and the body suffered from very high blood pressure which at times affected limbs in a negative way on the long term.

What you see on DMT is the imagination part of your brain feeding you hallucinations through sensory processing parts, nothing more. God is a personification. All mysticism is bullshit, or to put in academic terms: semantics. Just raw meaning without structure to tell you anything about the universe.

>>9726968
>we're
>were
Goddamn autocorrect.

>>9726978
>God is a personification. All mysticism is bullshit, or to put in academic terms: semantics. Just raw meaning without structure to tell you anything about the universe.
This is eloquent and I appreciate the absolutism of the sentiment

Only those that have tried understand just how alien this compound is.
Sure we know how it binds to our receptors and how it's metabolized, but that's about it.

>>9726978
t. has never tried any psychoactive substance

>>9727014
Has never read a book on critical thinking
Has never studied psychology
Has never questioned his intellect

>>9726968
If you're not going to put effort into your explanations then save everyone some time and don't try offering any explanations. He clearly said that he didn't believe drugs were magic.

I'm gonna share my serious thoughts on this here:

Think of the brain as operating system.

The system has modules for maintaining bodyfunction, storing memory and data processing etc.

your perception of the "present moment" is a dialog between (sensory) input and your OS services.

e.g.: Light penetrates the retina, impulses transfered to brain, mapped to colors, then mapped to patterns, then mapped to memories etc. to in the end be mapped to a response.

I think what DMT does is to take shut off the external inputs paths and reinterprets the internal messaging of your OS Services to act as the inputs

e.g. the PROCESS of mapping a colors to patterns, or the PROCESS of mapping a noise to a sound

You are stuck in a strange loop of abstract and sometimes fractal events, lose sense of time and feel unable to use reason/logic.

We can distinguish similar human faces far more precise than we can distinguish similar manmade objects. I believe that is the reason why a human(like) presence is felt or seen. The exact words of the description of such presence do differ of course.

>>9726739
ye imagine a visual glitch or your GPU overheating
that's it but for humans

>>9726978

Got a reference for the psilocybin and high blood pressure? Constant use over a long period of time will no doubt left renmants, but increased blood pressure?
Fug man I do it once a month, am I already dead?

>>9727024
>Pseudoscience
>Baseless assumptions

C'mon nigga

I'm gonna share my serious thoughts on this here:

Think of the brain as operating system.

The system has modules for maintaining bodyfunction, storing memory and data processing etc.

your perception of the "present moment" is a dialog between (sensory) input and your OS services.
e.g.: Light penetrates the retina, impulses transfered to brain, mapped to colors, then mapped to patterns, then mapped to memories etc. to in the end be mapped to a response.

I think what DMT does is to shut off the external input pathways and reinterpret the internal messaging of your OS to act as the inputs.
e.g. the process of mapping a colors to patterns, or the process of mapping a noise to a sound

You are stuck in a strange loop of abstract and sometimes fractal events, lose sense of time and feel unable to use reason/logic.

Regarding pattern recognition, we can distinguish similar human faces far more precisely, than similar man-made objects. I believe this is the reason why a human(like) presence is felt or seen in such experiences. The exact words of the description of such experiences do differ of course.

>>9727059
wow holy shit you're so woke! we live in a society

here's my theory: you're sleepy because your body knows it has low battery and cafeine makes your body think it has battery and shouldn't feel sleepy, wouldn't that be crazy ?

>>9727065
whats the point of this post?

>>9727065
so you think my thoughts are obvious?

>>9727076
Well, yeah, and it's been proved already. It's all in the brain. Painkillers blocks pain receptors, acid stimulates vision receptors, etc

>>9727035
>doesn't understand metonymy
>If you're not going to put effort into your explanations then save everyone some time and don't try offering any explanations
So then what are you doing here besides trolling poorly?

>>9727059
>Human like
What? I've never heard of such claims, if anything they look amorphous to the point that the only discernable characteristic is that they indeed respond to stimuli in a way that we percieve as intelligent.
I do agree with most of your theory, still the fact that we report the exact same details that our ancestors did forced me to consider other models.

To anyone that has tried it, what was your emotional state? This definitely has relevance to the experience.

>>9727101
I was not describing how the brain works, I was discribing how dmt works.

also acid does not only alter your visual perception but also your thoughts.

I was explaining the mechanic that alters your thoughts, as with a high dose of dmt you supposedly lose ordinary vision completely.

>>9727059
Phoneposting so my reply is shitty.

The part of your brain responsible for 'self'is probably the default mode network. The part of your brain you use when not doing intentional tasks. Some studies suggest that psychedelics cause the parts of the brain to work out of aync with each other and this may cause a lot of the effects on perception.

I think what you said is on the money, though prpbably a bit simplistic.

>>9727117
I don't think one can have a breakthrough without passing out.

>>9727117
>accepts that drugs can interfere with certain parts of the brain
>doesn't accept that drugs can interfere with other parts of the brain
What's the difference between something affecting your visualization and your cognition?

Drinking alters your thoughts and perceptions, but I'd bet you've never wondered how beer works or why everyone acts the same when they're drunk

>>9726773
People have similar structures in their brain. It's no surprise. People aren't blank slates.

>>9726725
Fast acting down regulator of the default mode network.

Thank me later

None of that "muh pineal gland" bullshit

>>9726773
Why is that a mystery? Everyone experience similar trips because they are experiencing the same drug

>>9726776
Your argument about red makes no sense

>>9727156
How is it downregulating? What is being upregulated then?

>>9727138
I have never met someone who passes out on DMT. Being a little unresponsive while tripping maybe, but passing out no.

If you experience that I would suggest stop using the drug immediately.

>>9726773

I know, right?

It's like how everyone who drinks vodka straight reports teleporting into the bathroom and puking their guts out...

>>9727183
I've never passed out but then again I've never had a breakthrough. I've seen people that claim such profound experiences to be completely unresponsive for at least a minute.

What about the frequency theory that our universe / reality / dimension coexists with others that we can't persive due to the frequency at which we think.
Stoned ape theory has some valid points that leads me to believe that the more we evolve the more of such compounds will be naturally produced by our brains?

>>9727256
Shit like this doesn't belong in /sci/
Only stoners believe DMT and shit can open their third eye or make them see another dimension or other stupid stuff like this

>>9727256
There is no mind frequency you fucking /x/ moron.

>>9727059

This a thousand times.
Im an video editor and i learend a lot about image processing of our eyes.
Dmt, Lsd, shrooms, the hallucinations are akin to a feedback loop, when you point a camera to a TV that is showing what the camera sees.
The reason most of us see structures like this - like this face - or other similar structures of colors and shapes, we see the visual mold that our brain uses to detect objects from memory and instincts.
We are literally only seeing how our inner mechanisms work.
Its a byproduct of the way our visual system and brains function together.
But because our emotions are fucked up, we also give it supernatural properties and we think we are taking a glimpse into another dimension, but we are only seeing these systems struggle to operate normally.
Our wild imaginations and our normal will to interpret everything takes over and makes us give it magical and godly properties.

>>9727287
Im not saying that its all x and that all this time humankind interested in shamanism has been watching pretty colors and calling them GOD and what not
But I am saying that it still inspires a lot and that further scientific exploration is needed, and that those susptances should not be illegal, but observed and researched

>>9727305
Are you 12? They've already been researched and observed by many organization. Even coke is illegal but still being used to experiment.
There's also nothing magical about any hallucinogen from acid to DMT, it's all in the brain and no, you won't be able to revive memories from your past lives.

>>9727310
I havent said half of those things aobut memories and i also said that there is nothing magical about it

Its much easier for scientists to perform research with legal substances !
Thats what i meant !

>>9727310
and if its legal all around the world, we can come to conclusions quicker, because of many reasons, not being taboo to talk about it for example

>>9727310
That isn't even what he stated you retarded faggot.
Still, please post the source of all these "organizations" that researched DMT.

>>9727321
a little less than 2 millions results when you type "dmt research" into google. Go work in a lab if you want to research the effect of DMT. The only thing i'd agree is that it's considered unethical to test on humans.

>>9727059
>computer analogy
Fuck you. Holy shit fuck you so much. I swear the next time I hear another retarded computer analogy to describe the brain I'm going to personally find you and beat the ever living shit out of you until you cry for mercy. You computer """science""" mongoloids need to be purged and stop putting your nose in real science. The brain is NOT a fucking computer. Stop. Fucking stop. For the love of God stop. There is not a single similarity between a computer and the brain, other than your skewed perception since all you've done in your life is sit in front of a screen like the fucking autistic little shit you are. You are a pest. Everytime I read "oh well you know the brain is actually a very advanced computer", I vividly picture a skinny, limp-wristed pale smug piece of shit. He frequently posts in /r/science. He already got his daily dose of dopamine from the upvotes he got from making fun of Trump and posting a Schrodinger's Cat reference. He feels ""edgy" so he comes to 4chan because he think his popscience-tier knowledge of the brain is something worth sharing here. He takes a glance at a post mentioning the brain. He smiles. He knows what's he's about to say. He can't hold it anymore. He takes a sip of his Onions before putting his fingers to work.
>"Haha well you know consciousness it's a chemical reaction in the brain, it's actually a lot like a computer. Let me explain."
Then he starts to ramble about something he learned in his CS class. He pats himself on the back. He just teached another ignorant fool about how the brain is just a computer. Because that's all there is right? Computers. Reality is the matrix! This is all just a simulation!. You fucking manchild... You fucking disgrace of a human.
>"brain gombuter :DDD"
God, just thinking about you makes my blood boil. I can't believe I share a reality with people like you. It honestly brings me suffering.

I wonder why is this stuff illegal. Who benefits from this?

>>9727310
coke isn't used to experiment it's literally classified as class 2 because it's heavily used for spot pain reduction.

It's called novaCAINE FOR A FUCKING REASON YOU RETARDED BITCH

>>9727330
B-b-but a neuron is like binary r-r-right?
/psci/ - Pseudoscience and maths

>>9727335
Not on humans, I meant on animals.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effect_of_psychoactive_drugs_on_animals
But maybe animals can experience out of body experiences and open their third eye, right?

>>9726725
DMT is a naturally occurring tryptamine that is in your cerebro-spinal fluid RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!

It is suspected to be responsible for our minds eye and the visuals in our dreams.

hence if you take a big hit of it you fucking trip balls.

A funny story, i did ayahuasca once with a shaman and a group of 15 people
Everybody experienced a similar trip - something jungle related and they all seen a goddess - a women called AYA that talked to them
This AYA is full of arcane knowledge and utmost wisdom - but everyone that saw her that night, was actually not full of arcane wisdom and to all of them aya said something akin to - you need to improve yourself bla bla bla
Well me and my 2 friends who are basically there for the lulz and had no research done, we all had similar hallucinations but seen none such goddess !

What im trying to say is - i think that being X enough can really cloud your judgment and ruin your trips. If i was stupid and believed stupid shit, of course that i would hallucinate stupid shit !
But it was a nice experience i would do it again certainly.
I felt like a new man a whole week after it.

>>9727330
nice arguments there

>>9727343
Yes

DMT isn't going to let you talk to an actual being

it allows you to experience your own subconscious. It is a tool for self discovery and personal exploration

>>9726773
>DMT with girl who has never done anything but weed once
>comes out talking about the machine elves even though I never told her about them
>goosebumps
it's because we live in a simulation

>>9726773
because the drug has a similar effect on people

fucktard

>>9727363
You’re retarded. Go back to /x/.

>>>/x/
>>>/x/
>>>/x/
>>>/x/

>>9727169
Not him though I don't think it is as much of downregulating as parts of it going out of sync. The default mode network is made up of a few portions of the brain.

>>9727331
Same cunts that benefit from keeping alcohol legal

>>9727367
How is the simulation theory retarded?
I'm legitimately curious.

>>9727363
the simple explanation is that she just lied to you

>>9727418
they said that you were retarded. not simulation theory

>>9726978
I came.

>>9726833
>the psychedelic trip of DMT isn't just a hallucinogenic experience
yes it is stupid hippie brainlet

>>9727139
actually I do wonder and worry about how alcohol affects social dynamic. It causes a lot of suffering actually...

>>9727054
brainlet

>>9727330
I never said it was a binary computer.

but hey, let's see you try now. what would be a appropiate comparison and dont give any of that, a brain is a brain bullshit after your rant. I wanna see some actual arguments now or you have contributed even less than me.

you have no answers and you suffer from your own negativity, no need to insult.

>>9727330
You know insulting people and creating imaginary strawmen of their physical appearances in your head isn’t an argument, right?

>>9727418
Simulation theory isn’t retarded. Coming to the conclusion that it is true because someone had a similar experience with the same drug as you is retarded.

>>9727330
It's your definition of 'computer' that is flawed. I never said it had to represent a binary computer.

but hey, let's see you try first. I wanna see some actual arguments now what a better comparison would be or you have contributed even less than me.

you have no actual answers and you suffer from your own negativity, no need to insult you, you do it yourself.

simulation theory is just the ontological argument in bugman form

>>9727194

Not-slav detected

>>9727363
pretty sure she has read about it before and suffered from confirmation bias.

>>9727509
>>9727421
of course there is that possibility, but i have some doubt that she read into it that far considering i was the one to introduce her to the drug
i would share my own experience and why i probably got the goosebumps but then it would be considered /x/ posting

>>9727586
I really wish there was a drugs board on 4chan for this. Posting about drug experiences on /b/ and /x/ doesn't really get you the best conversations.

>>9727604
lainchan is better for that and overall desu
they had a /sci/ board there and it was infinitely better than the shithole that this one is but i guess it didn't get enough traffic since it got cut

>>9726773
>trips
close, but check these

>>9727645
Lainchan is better in general and the drug board is top tier

>>9726978
end of thread

>>9726725
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXGF9UUGD04&list=PLtFnfSc9NwNzMHGZzPYroNJCPDd4Ymjgf

>>9726773
Trip might be altered by expectation.

>>9726739
People on weed cocaine and any other drugs are reporting similar trips it just means they were taking the same drug,

I was smoking dmt with my friends a couple times it was intense but I never had a "magic elves land" trip they were talking about, i believe it comes out of their expectations and it has nothing to do with the substance alone, but those dumbasses who are using youtube as an only info source are still saying its about my dose.

It is a very intense psychodelic drug, no need to treat it like a god.

>>9729664

There is a difference between feeling the same effects and reporting the same trip.
Also it's pretty obvious you didn't have the full breakthrough effect, magic elves land doesn't even come close to describing what you see if you manage to cross the mandala.
I don't think most people associate it with divinity, but even if you're an atheist there is so much to gain from these experiences, better that any antidepressant imho.

>>9726773
You're fucking retarded

>>9727331
Maybe it's because you can undergo psychosis from one trip and extended use can permanently fuck up your brain

>>>/x/

>>9729784
>It's potentially dangerous
Unlike all the retarded shit that kills millions of people and innocents that is legal and easily acquired

>>9726851
No you 100% didn't understand.

>>9727287
You have to smoke it. Then you'll understand.

>>9730000
“Fuck up your brain so you think it’s magic”
Kill yourself.

>>9730025
Nah I don't think I will. I never said it was magic before you go full muh atheism. But if your that worked up about not having tried it - just try it.

I can point you to some tek's if you like. You don't have to be so rude crude and full of 'tude.

>>9730025

Please don't smoke it, we don't need anymore retards shitting up hyperspace.

It's simple when you understand neuroscience a little. Every perceptions is controlled by neurons. Every neuron has receptors on its synapse. Each receptor has molecules that can stick to it to create a response or block a response. These are called neurotransmitters (ACh, 5HT, NE, Dopamine, glutamate, GABA, Gly, etc...).

Tryptamines (DMT) upregulate some neurotransmitters by preventing their breakdown for example. This cause excess stimulation in several areas of your central nervous system which change your perception of things.

If you still can't understand how changes in your electrical/chemical signals in your brain can change your perception. A more simple thing to look at is lessions (lobotomy) or electrical stimulation and the effect these can cause.

A good example I picked out for you, is a rare condition caused by lesions in the parietal cortex which usually occurs in stroke victims. This leads to a hemispatial neglect. Technically speaking patients have complete vision as their visual cortex is operating. However damage to their parietal cortex causes them to be unable to recognize anything on one half of their vision field.

Video of a patient with this condition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4FhZs-m7hA

Wiki:
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Hemineglect

>>9731697
Just adding on to my first comment.

A change in perception might not be a good explanation for some. A more specific example could be you thinking about an orange and your brain making associations with other fruits, activities, childhood memories, smells, tastes, emotions, noises, etc...

Imagine something like that for every sensory input you receive, visual, auditory, olfactory, somatosensory, and gustatory. As well as motor processes which include thinking.

>>9731697
That's what I've been saying for days but people keep thinking drugs can open your third eye and help make peace with yourself. You can do it without the need of a placebo.
And stop watching Doctor Strange, the governement isn't trying to stop you from communicating with other dimensions.

>>9732037
I did explain the scientific aspect of it. But that doesn't mean that it can't affect you psychologically. Sure it can, and if it does this could be negative or positive. DMT can make you perceive things you wouldn't perceive without it. Hence, it can make you come to an Epiphany or realization.

From my own experience DMT made so many nostalgic feelings and emotions from my childhood resurface which had an effect on me.

Ketamine for example is one of the strongest antidepressants. It's ability to block NMDA receptors can really help you think and perceive more than you would normally do.

>>9732051
How's does our emotional state play a part in this?

>>9732096
>people keep thinking drugs can open your third eye and help make peace with yourself

A change in your perception can result in you making peace with yourself as you have a different perspective or understanding of the world around you

And your third eye opening can just be a metaphor for being more self and surround aware or it can mean some spiritual bs.