/sci/ - Science & Math

Yes it does, now get out.

yes

Before we answer this let's think about it for a moment shall we? Were caveman transgender? No, probably not. So how could there be any scientific evidence that supports such a theory. Thus this is proof that transgenderism is a cultural practice.

>>971778
They certainly didn't have hormone treatment, surgery, or lip stick.

>>971782
Falsified by the liberal media so it makes it look like it's a normal practice when it's really not.

>>971778
But what of those studies that suggest that the brain is wired toward the opposite gender during pregnancy?

Of course it is. Never under-estimate the brain's ability to be weird.

>>971778
The native Americans had a practice where guys could join the women and be treated like a squaw iirc.

>>971787
>implying that's not cultural.

>>971787
Nobody cares about redniggers, alright?

>>>/adv/1568718

Don't make troll threads, tripfag.

>>971792
When does it stop being "cultural." When it is found to exist in every culture?

>>971797
Not detected any trolls, captain.

Transgenderism are like furries in that they're freaks.

I thought it was against the law of God to change what He gave you?

>>971811
So everyone who favorited this website is a sinner?

http://www.transchristians.org/

>Were caveman transgender? No, probably not.
>proof
"Probably not" based on absolutely nothing is proof now? lol

>>971799
In at least a semi-uniform matter, yes.

>>971778
>implying that asserting something to be true makes it so
>implying that cavemen lacked culture
>implying that you know shit about fuck

>>971811
UH-OH! BETTER STOP BREATHING! AND STOP THINKING; DON'T WANT THE NEURONS TO RE-ARRANGE THEMSELVES! IN FACT BEST TO STOP TIME ALTOGETHER. BUT WAIT! STOPPING TIME IS PERVERTING GOD'S LAW, TOO! OH NOOOOOO.

>>971816
I bet you don't go to church.

Groundwire.com is a good site, you all should visit it.

>>971815
And what if some cultures have trans-gendered and some don't? Is the lack of trans-gendered cultural or the existence of trans-gendered cultural? Does it even matter?

>>971821
LOL who goes to church anymore? Dude it's the 21st fucking century.

>>971845
>who goes to church anymore?
Good moral people with a good understanding of the world?

>>971829
If the arguement is that it's natural and a normal thing to do, then it doesn't bode well that it's not a uniform practice. That's the point I was trying to make.

Why do Christ nutters always ruin good threads?

>>971846
LMAO!

>>971846
>implying all church goers have those qualities and all with those qualities are chuch goers

>>971851
I'm making the argument that "natural and normal" are not particularly meaningful qualifiers.

>>971867
You have a point.

Is transgenderism justified?

>>971859
you have a point

>>971874
In what sense?

>>971846

>>971878
Are they truly a woman if they transcend?
Most people say they shall forever be what they were born as.

>>971846
This sounds truth to be honest.
Church-goers tend to be much more knowledgeable, tolerant, nice, generous, and more accepting than their atheist counterparts.

>>971885
The surgical procedure doesn't mean much, though they have the hardwear (which they still have to take transplant related medication to maintain) it still doesn't work. I'm not sure they can even feel anything down, but that specifically might be wrong.

So... no? No they won't be female, really.

>>971893
>I'm not sure they can even feel anything down
Uhh, that's not right, transwomen can still achieve organism.
And what the shit is this with women being women because of their sexual organs?

>>971846
>Good moral people
Yeah like the pedophile priests, and the asshole bishops who excommunicate 9yo girls who were raped and were pregnant and had an abortion, or a woman who had heart problems and would have died if she hadn't had an abortion, or freaks who protest military funerals, or fuckheads who murder gays, lynch blacks, and ignored the Holocaust... lots of good, moral, churchgoing individuals.

>>971893
This was a very sexist comment, I, as a woman, am offended.

>>971900
What?

>>971885
From a biological point of view, sex is discerned by the existence of features such as male or female genitalia, producing sperm or egg cells and other qualities. If they meet these criteria, then they are of that sex.

>>971903
I think someone was saying if you don't produce sperm, you're not a male, and vice versa

>>971906
Alright, but it isn't your organ. it's a transplant. Surely people can understand that if it is transplanted, it is hardly a real part of that body.

>>971885
Put simply, they will never be viewed as their new gender by society (or by me, not out of principle, simply out of the fact that I would never date a TG mtf). They will instead be viewed as trans-gendered.

addendum to >>971915
This is, of course, referring to our current technology. In the future the blur between genders will surely be more complete.

Everyone in this thread needs sensitivity training pronto.

>>971928
Sensitivity training is fucking bullshit.

>>971928
What?

>>971936
I saged asshole, this mean's I won the argue at hand.

>>971939
*Sigh*

I wish I could win the argue at hand for once.

No one's asking you to date one, just give the the courtesy of letting them decide their own identity. There are plenty of cis-gendered females who you wouldn't date either, but you're not trying to take their identity away from them.

>>971950
I don't like the idea of the whole surgery thing. What they do otherwise is np.

>>971950
I'll call her "her" and I'll treat her like a human being, but I'll never look at her as truly female. This is a simple, inscrutable fact. One that, under non-anonymous circumstances, I would keep to myself, but it is a feeling undoubtedly felt by an unspoken majority.

You can alter your identity, but you can not define it. It's part of being human.

>>971963
I, as a woman, am offended by your sexist attitudes toward transwomen.
I hope are sentences to смерти от огня.

>>971963
당신은 성차별 새끼들.

>>971971
How can classification of sex possibly be sexist? In order for me to be sexist against TG women, you have to acknowledge TG women are a different sex, but the only reason you call me sexist is for saying this thing which you necessitate.

>>971963
That's reasonable, no one's trying to force you to believe something you don't believe in as long as you treat other people in a civil manner.

>>971985
I bet you think Christians should be tolerated as well, aye fucknut?

>>971980
You basically insulted women by insulted transwomen.

I hope you die.

>>971987
>I bet you think Christians should be tolerated as well, aye fucknut?
Everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want. Free country after all.
Remember, it's not wrong if it's YOUR PERSONAL BELIEF!

>>971989
I don't understand how I insulted TG women. I never said that they were more or less than women or men, just different.

>>971987
Not tolerated; accepted. Any attempt to prevent the acceptance or at least tolerance of other beliefs (and problematic social categories like atheists, gays, and transgenders) should be unacceptable though. Accept the person, not the intolerance.

>>971996
You judge women based on biological reason thus you're a sexist and never gets layed. I'd get Racs to rape you tonight.

>>972016
I judge people's gender based on their biology. This is how you judge people's gender. Contrary to what proactive counselors might say, judgement is not inherently degrading. Noticing that a person has black skin does not make you a racist. Noticing that a person lacks female characteristics does not make a person a sexist. Saying "I don't think that mtf can do a good job teaching my kids" is sexist.

>>972026
I just messaged Racs, he's going to pay you a visit tonight.

>>972056
Seven proxies, etc.

>>972063
That doesn't make you anonymous, you little shit.

Yes, transgenderism is real.

>>972026

If you judge gender based on their physical body, you're a moron who doesn't know what gender means. Since you're privileged enough to have a gender that matches your sex, it seems you've never even realised that there's a difference.

Sex is your body. Gender is your identity. For example, I am male by gender and by sex, but if I lost my body and became a brain in a jar, I would still be male in gender, because that's how I feel. If I were put back into a woman's body (please don't be a retard and start discussing if this is realistic), I would be female by sex but still male by gender. This would be very uncomfortable for me and I would be in the same situation as a person born transgendered.

>>972085
No, sex is what you do to make babies. Your assertive definitions are artificial. You cannot deny the power appearance have and still be honest with yourself. And not just appearance, but the subtle psychologies of true gender which do not come in hormone pills.

In theory, the physicality of gender might be completely amorphous, but in practice, it has identifiable states. It is a simple fact that in this day a TG will be viewed with a different eye than a born-female. You can call them wrong until the cows come home, you'll still be the minority.

>>972108
>No, sex is what you do to make babies.

Are you seriously oblivious that words can have multiple meanings?

>You cannot deny the power appearance have and still be honest with yourself.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to express that peoples' genders should be decided by what they look like their genders are? Are you insane?

>>972140
>Are you seriously oblivious that words can have multiple meanings?
I see you lack the gift of analogy. A strange person to be discussing language, though ironically the most common kind of person to engage in such undertakings.

>Are you trying to express that peoples' genders should be decided by what they look like their genders are?
You can throw up as many meaningless definitions as you want to obscure the plain and simple fact which I am stating: there is a difference. There will always be a difference.

>>972151
You sound idiotic.

>>972187
You sound like you're reaching.

>>972193
Is he now?

>>972208
I didn't say he was something, I said he was doing something. The finer points of your grammar could use improvement.

>>972212
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4SFjP6rFmI

>>972215
What's the point of owning people when they can't even tell?

>>972221
Watch the damn vid.

>>971769
Yes, if you believe you are female you are actually a female. It also works if you believe you are a magical dragon, a sanguine vampire and a japanese person.

>>972275
Now you sound like an asshole atheist.

>>972151
A difference between what and what? I still have no idea what point you're trying to argue because YOU WON'T TELL ME.

>>972309
A difference between the test 10th graders take so they advance to 11th grade and the GRE.

>>972275
The difference is that if you believe you are female, you are quite possibly correct - your brain may indeed match that of a human female, and your experience may match that of a human female.

>magical dragon
Firstly, being magical is not a claim about your inner experience at all. It's a claim about your abilities. Second, the reason I wouldn't believe someone who says they feel they are a dragon is because there's no way that could easily arise. It's plainly very unlikely that someone sees the world as a dragon, much more likely they see it as a person of the opposite gender from their sex.

>>972330
>rstly, being magical is not a claim about your inner experience at all
Well I don't know about the magical part, but many otherkins and furry lifers believe that they are actually whatever animal or mythical being they claim they are, and IT IS a claim about their inner experience.

Look, gender is a social construction formed around the behavioural divergence between humans with xx chromosomes and humans with xy chromosomes. If you separate gender from sex, then gender is rendered meaningless.

how can you believe in transgenderism if its just a thoery (a geuss)?

>>972330
See, now to me, what's sexist is implying that the difference between what makes a person female and what makes them male is a fundamental difference in brain construction when the only definitive scientific distinction is a difference in brain size which comes from the difference in body size. It just seems to me you're placing the enterprise of gender too loftily. To me a person is human first and female/male/mtfTG/ftmTG/neuter/whatever second. What defines them as an individuals is their brain. What defines them as their gender is a combination of their physicality and their hormonal systems.

What you believe you are is a powerful abstraction, but in society the role gender plays is very much physical and, unfortunately, the body does not always conform to what you want it to be.

Well, that's my say. I know people want to be tolerant and accepting, but replacing meaningful distinctions with PC homogenization is not something the way to do it. It's not like I plan on going up to every TG I meet and say "HEY, DINGBAT, YOU'RE NOT A REAL MALE/FEMALE" but at the same time.... they aren't.

>>972367
yum

>>972407
This.
What is male gender? What sexual males do. It's not that wearing a skirt is a female gender thing in itself, it's only female-like BECAUSE persons with pussy wear them. If people with penises wore them, it would be a male gender thing.
Transgender people will act like gender is not dependant on sex, while following and imitating whatever random thing people of the opposite sex wear, do, etc, just because people of the opposite sex do it. Wearing lipstick is only female like because female sex people use it, if no one used lipstick it wouldn't be female like, if only male sex people used it, it would be male-like.

>>972407
I don't know how gender is determined. It doesn't matter. The only important element is that there can exist a mismatch between the sex of the body and the gender a person knows they are.

It doesn't matter that people are humans first. What the hell does that have to do with it?

>>972634
Your gender is your chromosomes. XX? Female. XY? Male. Other? Other.

If you "know" you're something else, you're wrong.

It would be curious if transgenderism weren't true.

>>972481
These are the ramblings of a person who just does not know what it is like to be in a body that doesn't match their gender identity. You've never experienced it. Doing that which is accepted for people of your sex has always been aligned with what comes naturally to you, so you assume that that's how it always is.

However, there are plenty of gender differences which exist outside of group behaviour. Males choose to play with toy soldiers and toy cars, females play with dolls in their doll houses and toy prams. The parents of transgendered people often notice these difference from a young age. FtMs often say their parents thought they were tomboys in youth. There are differences in the mental tasks which females and males excel at. Off the top of my head, women tend to be better at empathising, and have a much larger vocabulary, while men tend to be better at systematising and spatial awareness.

While there are people of one gender who excel at the other gender's typical strong points, without having any gender identity issues, you can't tell me that those transgendered people who are typical of the other gender in many areas and report that they feel part of the other gender, are somehow changing their strong points to fit in.

As for wearing lipstick and dressing up prettily, I think that's more a matter of something that comes with being attracted to males - not really a gender issue at all. People who are attracted to females are interested in things that they believe will provoke female interest, and vice versa.

>>972659
Chimeras can have both XY and XX chromosomes in their body, but physically only have the genitalia of one gender.