/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9716418
why would you not want to age?

>>9716418
Has /sci/ signed up for cryonics yet?

https://alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm
https://www.cryonics.org/about-us/faqs/
https://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
https://www.cryonicscalculator.com/

>>9716444
I'd like to start around at the physical and cognitive peak for as long as possible to be able to experience, learn and create as much as physically possible before death.
Whilst I understand immortality is a pipe dream, even if you didn't die of senescence or disease, probability shows you would likely die, at some point, from an accident. However, even that would allow for a greatly extended existence.
Although, I would only personally pursue antisenescence if my loved ones did also.

>>9716444
why would you want to age? do you enjoy having your body slowly falling apart and dying?

>>9716444
Are you retarded? Why would I want to subject myself to decreased physical fitness, numerous health problems, and slow deterioration?

>>9716460
>*to start = to stay

>>9716460
you make a fair point, but yet again, that is life, and that's what makes it it.
>>9716461
not if you're fit
>>9716463
chill baboon dingle-berry

>>9716468
>not if you're fit
Fit people still age and slowly deteriorate.
>chill baboon dingle-berry
Not an argument
Not an argument

>>9716468
>you make a fair point, but yet again, that is life, and that's what makes it it.
You'll did die at some point, you just get to experience more, whilst in your physical prime.
That seems like a very attractive state of existence to me.

>>9716468
>not if you're fit
Being fit doesn't stop you from the deterioration of aging, and the numerous health problems associated with it.
>chill baboon dingle-berry
Not an argument

>>9716444
The human life span is the greatest cultural brain drain know to mankind

>>9716481
The greatest spook.

>>9716490
Meaningless drivel

>>9716662
>Max Stirner is drivel.
[CITATION NEEDED]

>>9716669
>calling everything a spook = Stirner
Did you even read him?

>>9716680
But senescence IS a spook if we can overcome it, dude.

>>9716691
So how is my statement that aging is a brain drain a spook?

>>9716700
Unless I misinterpreted your post in which case at least we're bumping OP

>>9716444
The current probability of me getting laid is small, however as t approaches infinity the probability that I will get laid approaches one

>>9716705
You did, I was referring to death (from senescence) itself as a spook. Not you, or your statement.

>>9716710

>>9716418
While I see myself as a transhumanist, in my opinion transhumanism is not a scientific field. It's a General Outlook on life.

>>9716418
OP, your infographic seems to be a roadmap to making immortal mice.
I get that we're then supposed to eventually adapt that to humans, but in the interim what do we do about all the Methusemice?

>>9717539
>Methusemice

>>9716457
Freezing a human will never work because water expands and you'll have to replace all water in human cells with something else.

>>9717564
Well yes thats the problem, that doesn't imply itll never work. Read a while back so i could be wrong but iirc a water substitute that doesnt expand yet has a similar chemical structure was found, and that could be used.

>>9717564
That's what the vitrification process is for, dingus.

>>9716418
lol good luck getting past these 2, you're talking at the very very least 20 years and 10s of billions of dollars. I have no doubt eventually stuff will be found out but for it to be accessible to random middle class people? I would be extremely surprised if that happens in our lifetime

>>9716468
I was fitter than anyone here, literally did some amateur bodybuilding competitions and boxing. I developed IBD at 22 and since then basically hide at home ill all the time, i dream of being able to live fully at some point.

>>9718761
They'll have to make it accessible to middle class people, there will be riots otherwise.

>>9718761
We've done 1,2,3,4,5, and technically 10
They're not really steps as much as they are smaller cycles until a breakthrough

>>9716418
>Transhumanology

don't call it that.

>>9716418
Cool thread to be honest, and good idea to address rigor properly. As a medical practice maybe it can gain traction outside the academia and into concrete areas.

Recently Mel Gibson talked about his parent received stem cell treatment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUCJo1j0S9s

>>9718921
Although I agree it sounds silly, is a good idea to name it differently to get an idea of propriety. The -ism is a problem, we have specific products and services for it, be it cryogenics, genetic therapy, or even just nutrition centered enhancement drugs.

>>9719457
About your pic, what about the brain itself breaking down?

>>9719637
I dont follow.

>>9716418
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/608350/first-human-embryos-edited-in-us/
Because we live in a age in which Khan and Gattaca is possible, where and how could I augment my child?

>>9719457
a "head transplant" is actually a "full body transplant" unless you wanna be 2 headed

>>9716418
Say I want to further my knowledge on the subject of transhumanism, where would I start? what would I study?

>>9716418
>What is transhumanism?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok8N2PkqCDs

>>9716418
I think the strongest force for transhumanism will be the people who will live in space.

>>9719995
China? I bet there is already a black market or something.

>>9720011
Speaking of bets, biology and medicine are the correspondent fields I expect to be big in the next decade. Immunology and systems biology to be more precise. Bioinformatics is cool too.

>>9720008
With two heads I will finally have > 200 IQ

Ok, a little off topic but I didn't want to make a thread for this. My question is, how do you feel about the future of lab grown meat? Also, assuming it is possible/legal, would you consume "human" meat?

>>9720207
>how do you feel about the future of lab grown meat?
Is going to sell well, I personally am uninterested unless it eventually leads to grown my own meat at home.
>would you consume "human" meat?
Does it contain better nutrients or something? No interested, but you can be sure there is a market for it.

>>9720207
>how do you feel about the future of lab grown meat?
If it will have less energy requirement than animal flesh, it will have to repalce animal flesh because in that way we have more food in the world.

>>9720217
>I personally am uninterested
*am not interested. Unless the cost is less than normal meat while being the same amount of nutrients.

>>9716418
What will be necessary to hinder or even evade possible abuse of transhuman technology?

Kill your self

>>9720565
Like the government doing something? Just avoiding getting the things in the first place.

>>9720605
If immortality is possible, you bet I will do it. The world is a vast place and those who are willing to enhance themself will outcompete those who don't, so it will be necessary for me to keep up.
Also China is doing it with gusto, so not doing it is not an option.

>>9720565
Make the technology open. How are you going to control something that is done clandestinely? You have to make the knowledge free to use and review, and to people develop together, instead of making another arm's race.

>>9720756
>Make the technology open.
We need another Tim Berners-Lee for that and even that won't safeguard it indefinity.

>>9717564
Never work... I hope you have some solid proof for that.

Incredibly unlikely for a human? Sure. But there are biological creatures that survive freezing so the basic mechanism is already proven working in nature.

>>9716418
i just want them to make an artificial meniscus for my knee

If you guys like transhumanism you might be into Orion's Arm. It's a future history website that's structured like an encyclopedia and timeline of the next 14,000 years. Pretty fucking cool, if you don't mind speculative science fiction.

orionsarm.com

>>9720883
I wish they would have more stories, but I lie that they are willing to Show every site of transhumanism; the good, the bad and the ugly.
As a fa/tg/uy I also read transhuman Space, what is too a good Setting to read up about transhumanism.

>>9718755
>he thinks you can vitrify a whole human

>>9716418
What kind of gay shit is ops picture. It's a fucking 2 step process.

Squishy Flesh Bags --> Shiny Metal Tin Cans

>>9719457
>mfw some crazy russian cunt just jumped straight to number 9.

>>9720883
So this is what the world looks like when all other races have been extinguished.

>>9721297
It's like you didn't even read my post: Here, I dare you to read this whole thing and not have your worldview shook as for not only what could happen for us, but what could be out there already:

http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-article/4802ba24e7401

>>9721329
>Baseline Humans: Those poor beings are still stuck at the level of Homo sapiens sapiens. Mostly luddites, religious types, human supremacists, and other disenfranchised minorities. There are however a number of isolated habitats and polities, and even some reserves and parks, inhabited almost solely by baseline humans. Their population is extremely small in terms of the overall galaxy. Probably less than 50 billion, most in so-called baseline reserves, of which no more than 0.5% percent would be genomically pure H. s. sapiens. As their numbers have been slowly but steadily declining over the past several millennia they are considered an endangered species, although baseline hu has shown emself to be remarkably fecund in the appropriate environment.

>disenfranchised minorities
>restricted to reserves and parks
>considered an endangered species

Sounds good to me, desu.

bump

>>9720883
I knew about this site, pretty cool. There is a more realistic one here http://www.futuretimeline.net/

>>9721297
>>9721355
Why does /pol/ has to ruin every thread? Please leave.

>>9720565
Unironically free markets.
Getting rid of trademarks and copyrights will allow for anyone to use transhumanist technology freely and avoid abuse.

>>9722071
This.

Grad student in neuro/cell bio.

Immortality has a lot more to go along with it than just "can we prevent aging/stop aging".

Chances are, there are a lot more age-related diseases that we will bump into the longer we expand our lives. Mental deterioration will probably crop up a lot more, and I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't start developing a host of new mental problems when we start getting higher in age.

We will also probably start encountering new forms of cancer we haven't seen before, and unfortunately cancer isn't a one-stop-shop kind of cure. the longer you live, the more probable something will go wrong in the machinery. Sure, we can think up a lot of ways to alleviate this, but even that will most likely go wrong at some point.

Even if we fix everything, you will most likely die from a horrific accident a few hundred years down the road.

>>9722071
Ooooor monopolies will be created, the wealth gap will lead to the upper class using genetic engineering before the lower class, leading to a huge gap in health, intelligence, wealth, physical appearance, etc etc., leading to the biggest class imbalance the world has ever seen.

And pro-tip: If you aren't in some politician's sphere or you don't have a wealthy life, you're in the lower class.

>>9722125
Not him but abolition of copyrights can prevent the creation of monopolies over a technology. The very definition of copyright is a monopoly over a technology.

>>9716418
Aggregate predictions of the time of arrival of human-level AI

https://arxiv.org/abs/1705.08807

>>9722154
More AI predictions

>>9722154
We can have AI suitable to replace humans in certain tasks, but HLAI in the strong sense will never be achieved.

>>9722154
>>9722157
What do we expect from AI? We already have expert systems for aid in professional environments, still expert systems are not in widespread use for various reasons. For example, in medical conditions, were patients can be diagnosed with major effectiveness using an expert system, and this is possible since decades. It makes me wonder if the coming of some sort of superior AI isn't just some wishful thinking.

>>9722161
>HLAI in the strong sense will never be achieved.
Why do you think this?

>>9722165
Mind projection fallacy: The Post. Just because you can't imagine what a superintelligent AI would be like doesn't mean that it can't exist.

>>9722174
It doesn't answer my question. What is expected from an AI?

>>9722178
Possibly this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligence_explosion

>>9722178
Expert systems are old hat and kinda limited and shitty.
"AI" is too broad a term, and means different things to different people. I'm going to use machine learning as the basis for this conversation.

Machine learning has infiltrated almost every type of job there is. We use it for identification of people (facebook knows your face in a picture no matter what angle, lighting, etc), image recognition and categorization (that's google for you), and a million esoteric problems that companies have. There are business that exist solely to apply machine learning application to other business' problems (and they make a shit ton of money).

In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a profession or job that doesn't have ML used it in to some degree.

The past Cell issue has a Leading Edge segment called "Artificial Intelligence is Becoming Natural", and I'd suggest that you read it as a small primer. It seems to me that you are just ignorant of what applications are already out there and the actual growth of ML in most facets of business, and are using that ignorance to prop up your "What do we expect from AI? It seems it doesn't have any uses, because I don't know of any".

>>9722121
Isaac made a good video about Life extension: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKmdc2AuXec

We may be able to cure mental deterioration ( http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2017/08/07/1700866114
>Even if we fix every) and if we develope retro-viruse or nanosymbionts, the cure to all cancers will be there
>Even if we fix everything, you will most likely die from a horrific accident a few hundred years down the road.
Statistically you could live 2000 years if we cure age and every disease. If you protect your body with nanomachines or cybernetics, your life expectancy would increase further more

>>9722154
>>9722157
I am against human-level AI not because I think their existence is wrong or impossible, but that we would create artificial slaves.
The only way I could accept research in that field would be if we grant Strong AI personal rights.

>>9722121
>Mental deterioration will probably crop up a lot more, and I'd be extremely surprised if we didn't start developing a host of new mental problems when we start getting higher in age.
The Moravec Transfer is one possible way to get around this.

>>9722051
>I knew about this site, pretty cool. There is a more realistic one here http://www.futuretimeline.net/

I actually disagree. I found futuretimeline before I found Orion's Arm, and FT says that by ~2300 or sooner the common citizen with not only have superhuman technological powers, but that they will be almost entirely comprised of nanomachines. Honestly, not as believable as the Orion's Arm timeline, which, for example, pits nanotech coming along around 2500 and being somewhat of an ecological disaster. Read: http://www.orionsarm.com/eg-topic/45b2b27e35ae4

Orion's Arm is also a collaborative project, so you get the benefit of tons of different viewpoints coming together to make a "realistic, believable" setting, and that they at least claim to try to be grounded in hard science.

>>9721174

>>9716418
>criticisms
Pic related.
Also, I hope all of you read up on the newest research of mortality in naked mole rats, those fugly bastards might hold the key.

>>9722621
https://phys.org/news/2018-01-naked-mole-rat-defy-gompertz.html
kewl

>>9722679
I can see her tits.

>>9722687
>Her

Bump

One of the things I think most of when I hear transhumanism is Cyberpunk 2020. It maybe a bit outdated but to me it shows something I rather find interesting. Even with these technologies we dream about today, nothing really changes. Sure any old cunt could theoretically save up enough money over his pathetic life to afford going full Adam Jensen. But in the end that old cunt is still working the 9-5. My point is while it shows High Tech/Low Life. I also like the whole High Tech in the now aspect. Because even with sheer technological awe that the setting. Even with speeding bullet legs or a knife in the palm. You still gotta make sure you get up on time to get to work.

>>9716710
>tfw 350 years old and still no gf

>>9719698
As in the tissue degrading

>>9720165
Or at least triple digits

>>9724332
Is maybe in another picture, it belongs to the same set from the OP's pic, maybe is in another.

>>9724332
Curing Alzheimer is akin to avoiding brain tissue degradation. I imagine we can figure how new cells reproduce in the brain, I recall one study that showed new cells do grow in the brain.

>>9722206
Fuck off you moron, AI has no qualia. We could put it to work talking to you for an eternity and it wouldn't feel pain.

>>9721293
haha yeah , russians are mad, like i imagine a western doctor explaining this to him and he goes all "no, Ivan is strong, Ivan drink vodka and wrestle bear, he no scared of getting hands dirty like capitalist little girl, hey, see that dog? hold it for a minute while i go look for my tools"

>>9722121
>Even if we fix everything, you will most likely die from a horrific accident a few hundred years down the road.
just let me live 200 years with the body and vigor of a 20 yo and im content

>>9722178
>What is expected from an AI?
Imagine a being with the average intelligence of a human, from every point of view, like, able to pass the turing test...

now imagine you build it so that it feels no pain, fear, tiredness, no sorrow, its just focused on one task.
Whatever that task is is gonna be performed much MUCH better than a normal human, imagine this human level ai, with the same level of intelligence but it's not interested in personal gain, in breeding, in having fun in watching tv, say it needs to sleep (Which will probably not be true) it can spend every single moment of its waking hours dedicated to a single task, and it is inmortal.
What kind of breaktrough do you think a human level intelligence can achieve if it researchs the same topic 16 hours a day, every day for 100 years in a row?

Ok, now picture instead of one, you have a team made up of thousands of this.

Its bound to be a revolution even if there is no way to make these things smarter than us, but thats probably not true.

>>9722206
>make it so that it orgasm every time it helps humanity becme better.. bum piece of cake

>>9716468
>that is life, and that's what makes it it.
You can justify virtually everything with this.
Rape? Shit happens, that's life.
Cancer? Shit happens, that's life.
Oppression? Shit happens, that's life.

Look if you want to age, you're free to do so. Nobody will hinder you and nobody gives a shit. We just want you to return the favor and not give a shit when somebody doesn't want to age.

>>9726275
>What kind of breaktrough do you think a human level intelligence can achieve if it researchs the same topic 16 hours a day, every day for 100 years in a row?
Shitall.

>>9716444
Die as soon as possible please.

>>9726541
>Update
So imagine you have a human being who is inmortal and will always be motivated and happy, he will work 18 hours per day straight and have perfect memory, really think he wilaccomplish less than a normal sleep human

>>9716418
I dont care about not aging, but how about mantaining youthful vigor, muscle and aerobic capacity and skin quality troughout your life? are we close to that?

>>9728662
Look at the naked mole rat study, I think we are close to that.

>>9728819
all i found is that naked mole rats live long, it doesnt say anything about how to make me have nice skin when im old

>>9728874
use sunscreen, eat balanced diet and exercise

>>9728889
is it the same if i eat balanced sunscreen?

>>9728874
They live long at their fullest, read again.

>>9721239
>what is neuropreservation

>>9716444
FUCK you retard

>>9716444
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqzmEtLe8PM