/sci/ - Science & Math

if you're not on scholarship you shouldn't even be in higher education

>>9695112
Ivy League admits mostly rich students (with good test scores but not much brains to back it up), and a minority of poorer students who are actually smart, who pay with good financial aid.

>>9695120
t.
nigger

>>9695120
mf arab get back to your fucking shithole

>>9695112
International students who are rich enough to come to study here tend to be rich enough to afford the crazy high tuitions

most out of state people take out loans but as you look at better and better schools I'd the say the number of parents who contribute towards a student's tuition goes up.

t. A kid who's had a silver spoon in his mouth his entire life.

>>9695120
unironically this

>>9695112
By being jewish.

>>9695185
dude i have 24k in debt and rising. you people remind me of niggers who bitch about white privilege

The top schools in the USA are need blind. If your parents aren't making 6 figures the school pays for your tuition. The people who complain about debt are kids who had rich parents who refuse to contribute to their kids dumb ass liberal arts degree, or somebody going to a private school that isn't highly ranked, who somehow get students to attend despite a 50k a year price tag and no opportunities for networking or research.

>>9695123
>who are actually smart

>>9695112
If you're talking about undergrad, the US has moved toward a high tuition/high aid model, like a few others have described. At top schools ability to pay is not considered and everyone is guaranteed grant aid to cover the portion of the cost of attendance that they are unable to pay. This typically doesn't apply to international students, partially because you guys aren't Pell-eligible and partially because most schools want an excuse to have a known quantity of the admitted class paying sticker. There are a few exceptions, I think Harvard does not consider citizenship in their institutional financial aid application.

So assuming you are a US citizen and your family has income and assets such that you are expected to pay some portion of that $70000 cost of attendance, parents pay with college savings or students take out loans. The federal government guarantees a large class of loans to students and this has enabled private schools to rocket up tuition, far outpacing inflation.

The real sham is private schools with a similar sticker price to the top 20 but without the benefits of prestige or of a fat endowment to fund full need grant aid so you get saddled with six figure debt for a degree from a school like American University. This is what is really driving the student loan crisis.

All this is really made worse by the fact that college instruction is a joke, any non-lab instruction could already be replaced with online instruction, and everyone is collectively getting pissed at this sham so it's only a matter of time before the bubble pops and we decide to change the credentialing paradigm.

I hope we get to the point where universities are more or less PhD granting institutions and there are a lot more campuses that look like the IAS in Princeton. That way good researchers wouldn't have to pretend to care about teaching undergrads and we could smash this huge administrative bloat enabled by the student loan machinery and exacerbated by radical left.

>>9695123
>minority of poorer students who actually "smart'
>not affirmative action

>>9696515
1. He didn't say minorities who were smart, he said a minority of poorer students who were smart, which is true. It's much harder to get into Harvard as the valedictorian of a public toilet school than as someone with any GPA from Exeter.
2. You're citing medical school data when we're talking about undergrad
3. You're not accounting for affirmative action even in the data you cite
4. The pool of students applying for medical school is absolutely not going to be a representative sample even of a college graduating class let alone the incoming class when they were seniors in high school and had whatever motivations and background they did at the time. Plenty of people work kinda hard in boarding school, get into HYP, then chill out and do coke until they get a job at Goldman. Plenty of people wake up after barely making it into a good school and graduate summa cum laude in a difficult major.

>>9696524
yeah you might think some black kid in your class only got in through affirmative action, but the relevant comparison is not between you and him, it's between him and the laxbro who got in as a recruited athlete or the kid who went to the right boarding school. I've met plenty of affirmative action admits who are plenty smarter than either of the other categories.

>>9696471
get out

>>9695112

Caltech offers generous financial aid to domestic students (and some international students but admissions is not need-blind for them).

I go here for undergrad and pay ~27k/yr.

IIRC 50% of students are on financial aid.

>>9696792

Also just to clarify Caltech is a private not public school, so no instate/out of state difference.

>>9695112
Most people who attend top schools come from upper middle-class families, the lucky few who aren't wealthy that get in usually get scholarships.

There now you know :) Poor people don't get into top schools because of the subpar education within the areas they exist.

>>9696524
Wow, one poor student got in! We should cry about that instead of the privileged rich kids who had it handed to them. God, I fucking you stupid race obsessed dumbasses

>>9696524
Look into his story before you say that shit though. He actually had a really good gpa and alright SATs (1400-1500s?). I do believe the affirmative action helped a little as many people with perfect SATs don't get into all their schools, but he was a part of many different clubs and I think a few leadership positions so he seems well rounded enough to be completely capable for admissions. Think before you speak next time

>>9695126
>he doesn't have a fellowship paying for his full tuition and a $34k stipend

>>9695123
It's the other way around. The rich white kids all go to amazing prep schools that are harder than Harvard, whilst the minorities get in with sub-30 ACTs and take African American history classes. The only smart people are the Asians from strict parents(whose intelligence may just be effort) and the rich white kids who have received the best education in history.

>source: check my trip

>>9697055
I think most public high schools are harder than Harvard :^)

>>9695112
Most of them can't. Education isn't about learning in America, it's about being part of the elite.

Go to school in Canada. It's just as good and the people are nicer.

>>9696903
>He actually had a really good gpa and alright SATs (1400-1500s?).
There are thousands of asians with SAT scores above 1500 who don't even get into a mediocre UC.

>>9696903
You're kidding me right?
I had a perfect GPA, perfect SATs, 4 leadership positions and 10 other clubs for all 4 years, a research internship, and 3 university college math classes (Calc 3, Lin alg, ODEs, not at a community college)
I had legacy at yale and did not get in.
I also did not get into any other ivies besides cornell.
Luckily, i got into Berkeley, which was where I wanted to go anyway because i don't really fancy going to a school for complete fucking idiots who are good at throwing footballs and spending their daddy's money.

>>9695112
>tfw I have to pay less than 2k for my whole bachelor, public transportation and access to all professional software included, reduced costs for all forms of entertainment (movies, theater, sport, etc.) and education (books, paid sources etc.)
>degree will still be valuable because my uni is considered prestigious in my country and top50 in the world
how does living in a 2nd world country which doesn't value its education feel amerifats

>>9697157
Where do you go anon, and which country?

>>9697140
Perhaps your essay was too entitled?

>>9697157
>2nd world
>communist
Well, if the US were a 2nd world country, it would certainly beat your 3rd world shithole where a highschool is considered prestigious.

>>9697140
There are literally white people who do not have a "perfect GPA", 1600 SAT, have very few leadership positions, and only take math through calc 2 and still get into Yale.
Either none of what you said is true, or you cheated your way through highschool, and the people at Yale caught it. Don't lie to us, nobody here knows you and we aren't impressed.

>>9697372

>>9697369
germany
>>9697374
>he has to pay less, that means he's communist
pic related buddy

>>9697379
Look up the definition of '2nd world' anon.

>>9697422
>Subsequently the actual meaning of the terms "First World", "Second World" and "Third World" changed from being based on political ideology to an economic definition
how about you stop being a pedantic faggot

>>9697379
Are you black? Then go ahead and apply those statistics to a black person in Germany. I and a very large percentage of my peers are not, so those statistics don't apply, as infant morality rates and HIV are as close to 0% as you can get.
Also, you can't just use 2nd world as meaning "less of economy than my country" when both the GDP of the country and per capita are both lower than that of the USA

>>9697443
>i-its the niggers!
amerimutt, please stop embarrassing yourself
your "superior" economy means shit if the average Joe is a retarded neckbeard and your education system is a joke to the whole fucking world

>>9696826
You really should worry about that.
Poor kids, getting in by affirmative action, is a terrible thing. They go and may eventually hit a point where they are unable to do the work at these extremely rigorous colleges, while providing opportunities such as work study or free tuition and dorms, then slowly sink to where they receive academic probation or have to leave a place entirely because they're not allowed to take more classes. What do you think they do then?

>>9697450
Funny how you jumped to calling them biggers. And like I said, I nor most of the people I associate with would fall under the category of higher HIV rates or infant mortality. Gas and electricity usage? Most certainly. And there really aren't many people here who give a fuck about your culture except to laugh at your country for the absolute failure of letting Hitler take power. And maybe to occasionally indulge in the Octoberfest which your kind begs us Americans to come over and spend our money

>>9697443

Not him but you do know that the U.S. GDP is skewed because of the income of the rich/ certain states right? It's the same with countries like China where wealth is mostly held in 4 of the 31 provinces.

That's why measurements like the quality of life index exist and places like the U.S. and China are ranked in 16 and 49 respectively.

>>9697471
so you're saying you don't have to pay absurd healthcare costs? you don't have to pay absurd education costs?
you have paid leave and a relaxed work environment? you have more free time?
please stop embarrassing yourself, once again. your students literally flock to Germany just because the education system over there is so retarded, that they'd rather get it in a foreign country they don't know the language of kek

>>9697479
>top 10 universities are in USA and UK
>flocking to Doucheland
Hmmm something doesn't add up here.
That's ok though, I'm taking my 2 weeks of paid vacation to Yurop this summer and I'll make sure to laugh at you all while you trip over yourselves begging for my money. I'm not even in business, a student working full time and in school can literally afford this lifestyle in the US.

>>9697490
Fucking based. I'm not even american but smugs yuroshits are fuckign annoying

>>9695112
Schools jack up prices because most students get at least some form of financial aid. Seriously, my parents combined income is about $180k and the gov still let's me take out around $6.5k of loans.
Poor kids get grants and a little more financial aid. But if you're going to caltech you're probably on a scholarship.
If the gov didn't hand out loans like candy maybe we wouldn't be in this situation.
I know people literally getting paid to go to community college.

>>9697377
>There are literally white people who do not have a "perfect GPA", 1600 SAT, have very few leadership positions, and only take math through calc 2 and still get into Yale.
Yes many (((white people)))

>>9695120
>If you're not a poo in the loo or some smelly refugee you shouldn't be in higher education

>>9697379
get ready for the asshurt mutts

>>9698331
>jews receive affirmative action

>>9698348
>Jews deserve a spot 12x more than the goyim

>>9698348
>jews don't receive affirmative action

>>9695112
American universities aren't for Americans, they're for Jews and rich foreigners

>>9698418
If you don't know shit, then don't say shit. As long as you try a your best in high school to get to top 30-40 universities/liberal arts school and your parents make less than 70,000, it's basically full tuition. And the questbridge program allows anyone (even me who has professor parent with ~65,000 salary and am by no means poor) will basically guarantee that I get into a highly ranked school. And no I'm not a nigger. I'm asian. As long as you aren't a complete brainlet and just try enough to get A's in the most AP classes you can take, you'll succeed. And even if you don't get into HYP, what matters is whether you get your shit together in college or not.

>>9697140
>sour grapes

>>9696792
still absurdly expensive. americlap unis are pricey as fuck compared to other countries

>>9695112
Not science or math. Get out.

>>9695112
We never heard about free college.