/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9689121
You're not thinking clearly.

For that matter if chemicals can just randomly interact to create a self replicating machine why aren't there quintillions of them out there in space, using the energy of the stars to replicate and act like Vonn Neumann probes?

>>9689124
Where is the fault in my thinking? Grammatical errors aside.

>>9689137
You're assuming things and making non sequitur arguments. There's no logic to anything you've written.

>>9689121
it was a very unfortunate accident

>>9689144
'Life doesn't make sense' is not an assumption.

'Seek stable patterns' is an entirely logical assumption as to what a primitive consciousness may be geared towards.

A prior intelligence is a logical conclusion based on the logical presuppositions.

The term you were looking for was
>"Your thinking disturbs mine, though I can find no fault in it"

>>9689135
Because second law of thermodynamics, also possibly dark energy.

>>9689160
wow what a faggot

>>9689176
Checkmate, atheist.

>>9689160
I just had a long conversation with this fag about pretty much the same thing. You'll get nowhere with him.

>>9689121
Compounds hit a receptor and cause a conformational change which changes the behavior of downstream effectors. Protein cascades can amplify a signal to cause changes to a cell, which can relay information to neighboring cells by mechanical, electrical or chemical means.

So, a neuron can fire in a brain and it hits another thing in the brain and then your brain brains in brainier fashion.

The prior intelligence would be things like the cerebellum. Half of your neurons are there. It plays a huge role in movement, which is like most of the reason you have a brain. Living things that move can spread their genes around. Plants don't have to move but fuck them, they're assholes.

Anyway, if "why a brain" then "why is there reward" is really just an understanding of evolution. If you devise a thing that makes you better at being a thing, you fuck more and produce more things.

>>9689252
How does a receptor, let alone a cerebellum, even come into formation?

>>9689121

you should look into anthropic principle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropic_principle

to even ask the question you are asking, life must exist, otherwise there is nobody to ask the question

>>9689271
A receptor is just something that reacts to a change in environment, which is basically every protein. Why is this hard to get?

>>9689121

Inanimate compounds are matter, matter is energy, aka everything is energy. Particles couple together over extremely long periods of time because everything within the universe is moving with different frequencies, functions, etc.

>>9689271
Okay so Serine is an Amino Acid with a polar, but uncharged group (the OH on the left of the picture). The Oxygen (the O in OH) just behaves in certain ways with electrons because it's Oxygen. It can form bonds with Carbon to make the overall structure Serine.

The amino group (NH2) and the acid group (the double bond-O near the OH on the right side) can form peptide bonds. Put a bunch of amino acids together and you can form a peptide.

Get more peptides together and you get a protein. A Receptor is a class of protein.

So, this becomes "why an amino acid" and it's because Carbon is a slut of an atom, and thermodynamics says let's do all sorts of nasty shit bbgirl.

>>9689121
Even bigger question would be how would nature sets up a complex morality within biological systems. The play circuit in mammals is a miracle.

>>9689121
How does a bunch of stuff and gravity start balancing itself on nuclear fusion?

Stars don't make sense

>>9689333
Thanks. What conditions are necessary for Serine to form? Why isn't the surface of the sea, or even just the sky, covered in Serine?

>>9689121
You sound tangled in linguistical definitions and abstractions. Talking about " inanimate compounds", "intelligence", "life" from a physical point of view is retarded.

>>9690873
>let's do away with all semblance of distinctions and pretend that's worth anything

No, you are truly retarded.

>>9690894
>let's make everything into nonsensical abstractions and then ponder on the broken illogical questions we've produced with said abstractions forever
>>>/his/ (& Humanities was a mistake)

>>9690928
So you're saying you're incapable of finding a difference between inanimate matter and life?

>>9689121
"stable patterns" just happen. that's why they're stable. Mountains exist because they persist. Mayflies exist because they procreate and adapt.

https://media.uoregon.edu/channel/archives/5936

You should really check out biosemiotics. Terrence Deacon wrote a giant book about this question in particular, called incomplete nature "how mind emerged from matter"

The thing is life is absurd from the materialists "neodarwinain" framework.
It has to be understood in an ontology of sign relations.
If you already understand complexity and order in systems and generalizations of life this will be easier to get into, not too easy because the biggest hurdle is understanding Peirceian semiotics and philsophy of representation.

This is a lecture by Terrence Deacon that is interesting and casual(casual in this crowd is still very conceptually dense. The reason I recommend it to start is it is exactly what peaked my interest in the field and conveniced me to get into the literature.

>>9692000
Wew lad

>>9692023
Nah he really shouldn't.

>>9692047
Epic basedtfo

>>9689121
with the reddit spacing and everything, good god

>>9690863
We can synthesize Serine and other amino acids in our bodies. So, maybe you could say the conditions necessary for it to form are within the physiological range of temperature, pH, pressure, stuff like that. Some amino acids we can't synthesize and need to get from our environment; this is why if you don't eat meat you need to make sure you get a balance of certain plant foods. But, a lot of the stuff in our bodies requires enzymes (another kind of protein) to function. They don't change the spontaneity of a reaction (whether or not it can happen without energy input), but rather lower the activation energy and make it come along much more quickly. It's not that our bodies don't want to make other amino acids, but a lack of enzymes to carry out the job basically means it'll happen too slowly.

I don't know what amino acid composition was necessary for the proteins vital to the first things to walk to planet, but they would all need the necessary molecules within proximity so they could interact. I haven't really studied things like abiogenesis though so I don't really know if I can give you a solid perspective of what we think the first events were.

>>9689578
>try to balence a rod on a knife edge
>bend in near the middle
>try again
Shit makes perfect sense. If any one variable we're changed, either physics wouldn't work and nobody would have developed in the universe to note this fact or the other variables would have values that work with the "new" value and the universe developes life that asserts that only the particular variables of their universe can form a valid universe that developes life.

>>9689121
Stable patterns are enevitable. If they weren't everything would just be caos with lighting shooting all around none stop. It inharently has to be stable.