/sci/ - Science & Math

>>9683251
>Biological immortality is a technology that is out of grasp for my lifetime.
Do you have a single fact to back this up?

https://www.sens.org/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategies_for_Engineered_Negligible_Senescence

Not soon enough.
We're all going to die, haha

>>9683251
>afterlife theories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide_and_immortality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YsjrA87Cno

>>9683251
You see, biological immortality may be obtainable in our lifetime. However, you'd probably have to be wealthy to effort it. Even then, all that would happen is you would live to see humanity tear itself apart as we enter the 2100s and run out of resources.
For antisenescence to even matter, we need to become interplanetary also.

Man up, pussy. You're nothing. In 100 years time, the particles that currently constitute you will probably be part of some fat cunt's big log of shit. Dust to dust, you can't avoid it.

>>9683259
I first read about this guy 10 years ago. ~15% of my remaining lifespan gone, what's been done since then? How are we any closer to immortality? You're not gonna make it, none of us are.

>>9683251
Sign up for cryonics if you think biological immortality is unattainable in your lifetime.

https://alcor.org/sciencefaq.htm
https://www.cryonics.org/about-us/faqs/
https://www.benbest.com/cryonics/CryoFAQ.html
https://www.cryonicscalculator.com/

>>9683251
First off, if you call me Goy I get to call you Barbarian. Second. Why can't your sky daddy comfort you anymore? Are you really so scared you would come to us and not a Rabbi?! Then truly there is no hope.

>>9683251
Nothing lasts, but nothing is lost.

>>9683306
t. buttblasted goyim

>>9683307
Dont give me that 'your legacy last forever hurr durr' bullshit. I don't give a shit about my legacy if I can't exist to witness it. I want consciousness not a fucking legacy

>>9683324
you can't even give a proper definition or model of what conciousness is, how do you expect us to fucking store it for you? you're gonna die. deal with it brainlet. if you were truly a smart person, you'd push the boundary of human mortality by modeling conciousness as a mechanical system that be broken down to biomechanics, chemistry, and so forth, all while leaving behind the groundwork for potential immortality. but no you're gonna be butthurt you can't have your cake and eat it too. get real. your ancestors probably couldn't even come up with a way to make fucking alloys and you want immortality. it's laughable.

>>9683251

Your only chance is to have your brain removed and frozen and hope someday we can put your brain properly in another body and immortality has been discovered.

>>9683251
Too bad nigger. You're gonna die

>>9683251

immortality isn't as great as it sounds. i loathe the idea of life going on forever I don't even have a problem with it: I'm fuckin healthy, have all my body parts, live stress free and I have friends and family that I hang out with everyday but I couldn't stand the afterlife let alone immortality. all life ends and begins again, but if that isn't enough, just think of the amount of people who have died in human history, its the laws this planet dictates no matter how much we fight it, it wouldn't work otherwise

>>9683251

you wouldn't be here if there was no death. you don't have to be grateful, but you should accept it its better that way

>>9683251

>afterlife theories

I suggest studying the empirical evidence most pertinent to what actually happens when we die, i.e. survival research. Here's an example of a great introductory text to the state of the discussion today: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metadc799403/m2/1/high_res_d/vol21-no1.pdf (pp. 5-24)

Here are two great documentaries:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/day-i-died/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwyVFW9kT8k

If you want to go even deeper into the science of it, there are countless books and studies out there. Two suggestions would be "The Art of Dying" and "Science and the Near-Death Experience: How Consciousness Survives Death". If you want some counter-arguments to these and decide for yourself what the truth is recommend "The Myth of an Afterlife: The Case against Life After Death".

>>9683265

>biological immortality may be obtainable in our lifetime

Even if we played with the perfect scenario and assume that it will be, you'd be dead within a couple of millennia anyway due to the statistics on accidents. If you bunkered up big time you might live a hundred thousand years or so. Either way, on a larger time scale, the reality of death will have to be be confronted sooner or later.

>>9683324

This guy gets it. And even if you got a legacy it would eventually crumble to dust anyway down the millennia as civilization moves on. In the absolute best case scenario, you'll just be another name in the history books 10000 years from now. How is that so important anyway?

>>9683812

>I wouldn't want to live in paradise

Lol. Try Ecstasy and go out dancing. It will be one of the best nights of your life. Now multiply that by the millions, and you still won't be close to scratching the surface of the bliss of what people report the afterlife to be like.

You'll love it there. We all do and already have already and always will: http://www.broadjam.com/artists/songs.php?artistID=14702&mediaID=460764

>>9683251
Through children we are immortal. Children are the afterlife. Perhaps your father dies. But everything he knows and half of who he was lives on through you. And so shall your son carry your legacy.

>>9683876
Okay, we'll call it antisenescence, since that is the true objective of it. Not dying of "old age", or "disease".
Besides, I'm perfectly happy with at least a couple of hundred years, but if I get a couple of thousand? Perfect, plenty of time for experience and learning.

>>9683885
What about orphans?

>>9683876

>reported

A child wrote a book on how he saw the afterlife and everybody believed him. I'm taking the whole "afterlife" thing with a grain of salt, but mostly because people who "reported" the afterlife were never dead.

>>9683290
https://www.unz.com/akarlin/naked-mole-rats-sort-of-dont-age/

>>9683967
>report

>A child wrote a book on how he saw the afterlife and everybody believed him.

I knoww, and it turned out that he was a liar. There are a few other famous NDErs that have been argued for as liars as well, like Dannion Brinkley for instance.

However, is it a surprise that there are at least 2 liars in a cohort of millions of people? I mean, how many people are not liars in the general population? I'm sure it must be more than 2 in a million, but if anybody has statistics to the contrary I'm all ears.

So the fact that a few NDEs were made up by liars doesn't prove anything, since we already knew that there are liars out there. Some people lie about having a headache as well. It doesn't mean that people don't have headaches.

>I'm taking the whole "afterlife" thing with a grain of salt, but mostly because people who "reported" the afterlife were never dead.

Actually, they were. The clinical definition of death is no heartbeat, no breathing and no brainstem reflex. All of these conditions are met during cardiac arrest.

Death is a process, and that process begins when a person's heart stops beating. It then extends for infinity, but for the first couple of minutes it is potentially reversible with the resuscitation technology and understanding we have today. In the future it may be many hours into this process that it's still reversible.

But when you have a cardiac arrest the process of death has most certainly begun, and so /by definition/ you are dead.

If you don't like that definition, fine, but that is how death is defined today.

You can't be immortal. Even if technology can cure ageing, and make us live indefinitely, we still can't live forever. Eventually all the stars will burn out, and the universe will freeze.

If given the choice though, I'd rather live for a billion years than 80 years.

>>9684073

clinical death is the death of the brain, medical institutions will consider you dead even if your heart is still beating. none of the people who "died" and "came back" were brain dead, otherwise they would still be dead. There is no way to resuscitate a brain that is dead. if the brain is still alive it would be no different than dreaming even with the heart stopped and no breathing. It is speculated that the reason you see "the light" during cardiac arrest is attributed to your eyes reacting to the reduced oxygen in the brain, similar to the way your vision goes dark when you are being strangled. Visual phenomena can be explained very simply as we already know our perception can be easily influenced by all kinds of stimuli, substances and neurotic complications.

Come on man, the internet is right here youre using it

>>9683251
>immortality

Wrong board.

>>9683251
The Way. The Truth. The Life.

>>9683251
Oh my, how sweet. A dumb kiddie facing his first existential crisis. But don't you worry, you are not the first, and not the last for sure.

First step in every scenario is the sole realisation of problem, which is sort of done already. Congrats, you are now aware of our mortality, aware that no matter how grand you feel now, having wings of youth pushing you forward in life, it will all cease someday. Not only you will grow old, your body weak, ugly and wrinkled, your brain will soon start to rot, losing on it's sharpness, and dementia will follow.

You better start working on it right now, until you still can compute few more complex problems in your little head. Or else your mind will collapse, and you will be reduced to another religious zealot, frantically grasping for whichever arbitrary rules some preacher throw at you, in soul consuming panic.

You have essentially three ways. First is to become sciencist or researcher, working in whichever branch seems most plausible to grant us longevity (genetical alteration? bionic organs and implants? or maybe transfer of consciousness into mainframe? the choice is yours). Second is attaining a massive amount of wealth and cross your fingers that someone smarter than you will invent aftomentioned way before you will perish like a dumb dog, in exchange for your monies. Third way, the way of true scholar, is the realisation of the sole nature of the phenomena called "life", "death", "reality" and "consciousness", and finding joy in ephemeral experiment that is our existence on this planet. Keep your eyes open, hear other wise people out, experiment with your own psyche, meditate often and you will grow to learn that life is nothing else than a play, in which you've casted yourself yo play the main role. I've attached a quick guide for dumbfucks as you - instead of crying like a baby, read the recorded wisdom of our progenitors, and build your own vision upon their foundations.

>>9684271
Oh, and a little tip from myself - if you want sort of more abrupt push in right direction, then fetch yourself a ~150 ug dose of LSD, and around 4-5 hours in during a trip, read this piece of art:

https://www.physics.princeton.edu/ph115/LQ.pdf

Don't spoil yourself this for now. While it would have some sort of effect, I personally think it's best impact is under the influence of strong psychedelic agent.

>>9684271
Excuse me, where is the pragmatism?

>>9684351
True pragmatic will not even trouble himself with any lofty words, existentional "what ifs?" or anything that might come after death. If you can't prove something beyond the shadow of doubt, then it shouldn't concern you.

But if you insist:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

>>9684366
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/GZjGtd35vhCnzSQKy/godel-s-completeness-and-incompleteness-theorems
https://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Highly_Advanced_Epistemology_101_for_Beginners
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/zmSuDDFE4dicqd4Hg/you-only-need-faith-in-two-things

>>9683876
>>9683967
I had an NDE. It felt great. The dying part sucked and was very painful (I suffocated from an asthma attack until I blacked out) but once I got to the other side it was wonderful. All my anxiety, fear, and pain was gone. There was only bliss. And I felt a great certainty that everything would be ok. I didn't see anything. There were no deities or dead relatives. Only warm cozy darkness. I didn't know what would happened if I stayed. Would I fade away? Stay in bliss forever? Meet God? No idea. No one spoke and there was no communication but I just had the knowledge that I could stay or return. Obviously I chose to return here (I'm going back there anyway, right?) and my lungs started working again and I woke up in the parking lot at the hospital (family was driving me) and walked in.

>>9683303
this

Bump

>>9684176

>clinical death is the death of the brain, medical institutions will consider you dead even if your heart is still beating.

That's a good point, but you're more dead in the legal and practical sense than in the absolute sense. When you're brain dead and your heart is still beating, your body can still live on for years.

When you are dead via cardiac arrest, your entire body will start to decay within minutes or hours unless you are revived or frozen down cryonically.

>none of the people who "died" and "came back" were brain dead, otherwise they would still be dead. There is no way to resuscitate a brain that is dead.

Agreed.

>if the brain is still alive it would be no different than dreaming even with the heart stopped and no breathing.

This is where you go wrong. There's a difference between being brain dead, where the cells can't ever be revived back to life, and merely having no brainwave activity. When you enter cardiac arrest, any measurable brainwave ceases completely within 2-20s. In other words, the electrochemical interactions in the brain that neuroscientists regard as the cause of our consciousness and thoughts is completely gone. That doesn't mean that they are instantly brain dead, as the brain can still be revived for potentially minutes or hours still.

However, the state the brain is in during cardiac arrest is still a lot closer to brain death than to ordinary brain function, such as what we find our ordinary waking hours or when we sleep. Even when we sleep, the brainwaves are very active.

>It is speculated that the reason you see "the light" during cardiac arrest is attributed to your eyes reacting to the reduced oxygen in the brain, similar to the way your vision goes dark when you are being strangled.

You're taking the speculations of Susan Blackmore from back in the early 90s and presenting them as if they're still compatible with the data. They're not.

>>9683303
Ultimate meme heaven for atheists.

>>9684290
Holy shit.
Now this was an experience, and I agree with everything in it, except one thing : I'm not sure of the "NO PROBLEM
IS INSOLUBLE IN ALL CONCEIVABLE
CIRCUMSTANCES." part, because of Gödel's incompleteness theorems.
That changes the end of the story, and not in a good way.

>>9685893

>You can't know nothin because you don't have the full picture and you never will.
>The full picture as a concept cannot exist without some semblance of truth.
>The full picture exists.
>The full picture is attainable.

>>9685900
>One Piece is Real. The Post.

N-Nani?

>>9685812
A meme heaven that's a lot more likely to become a reality than Christian heaven.

>>9686207
Trying to indirectly pull Pascal's wager I see.

>>9683251
Sounds like you got a nice life. Probably shouldn't waist it on 4chan with your limited time.

>>9683251
id rather stick along for as long as possible as well, but you must accept death as a possibility. otherwise thoughts about it will poison your valuable life

There is no hope and people like yourself should just off themselves instead of bothering everybody.

>>9683251
But I want you to die, and things always go my way. Tough luck.

>>9684271
Man I'm not kidding, this is a great looking flowchart for someone like me that doesn't know much about different aspects of beliefs, did you make this yourself btw?

Also you might as well work more on it and add more stuff. Although I'm not very informed on the subject, you might have missed an idea or two on that flowchart.

>>9683251
then make something significant so you won't die

>>9686969
No, the flowchart itself was created by /lit/ anons, who are dealing with this kind of threads all the time. Apparently various schools of philosophy are much better in dealing with existentional void/fear of death than blind belief in futuristic scientific inventions. Only few Sci-Fi writers have approached this peculiar problem, and one of them is afromentioned by me Isaac Asimov.

Also, remember the Trolley Problem macro? They also made their own version.

>>9687450
If I had to add something to this chart, then from the "Are you willing to believe in God", I'd add a third option called "How about I'd become a god myself", that would be about harnessing the rule over imagination, learning the art lucid dreaming and essentially administering large amount of psychedelics. A starting lecture would be "Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley.

The persitent self is an illusion in the first place. Id love for eternal life to be a thing. But with the self not persisting does it matter?

>>9687482
How do you know that it is an illusion?

>>9687519
You ever see that guy who doesnt have any memory any more? Every moment is the first moment for him. So if the difference for us is that every moment we have this series of memories that convince us we have lived up till now then what about this projection we call the self is persistent? Without the ability to store memories from one moment to anotherwhat makes it a lasting thing? Its not as solid proof as I'd like, but it has me convinced that the "self" is something weve overblown like "free will" where we just believe we have it. Im sorry its probably not the answer you were looking for but its all I've got.

>>9686669
No he isn't.

Pascal's wager has nothing to do with probability, it concerns itself with the outcomes of each choice.

>be jew
>commit all types of crimes but still be on God's good side because you are a jew aka the chosen people
>worried about death
You literally have a free pass to paradise, whatever that is for jews (probably a Deli or Fort Knox) just because your mum was a jew.

https://discord.gg/ftSbffu

>>9688948
>.
>.
>.
>.
>That paying money for a service which may or may not lead to a second life after death, costing a finite amount of income compared to "fug dead 4 gud now :D"
>It is not the same as saying: Belief in god is a no brainer, since you have nothing to lose and everything to gain compared to just staying dead.
>it is not indirectly trying to pull Pascal's when you are trying to persuade one wager over another.
>Not knowing what indirectly means.
>Implying, implying, implying
Desu

>>9683251
quantum immortality my friend

quantum immortality

Lots of people die and you don’t see any of them complaining! Wait...

Why the fuck would you want biological immortality? This reality fucking sucks.
If you could upload your consciousness to some virtual reality and become God of that reality, then fuck yeah. I'm not interested in this awful world.
>>9689991
Also this. I can't believe I'm doomed to live forever trapped in this hell. FUCK.

>>9690055
Being a God (perfect personification of infinity) doesn't sound all that great either, if it comes as it says on the box. Read "The Last Answer", a short story by Asimov to find out why.

>>9690070
I just read it. Do you mean that basically being a God would get old and you would want it to end eventually?

>>9690112
you're brainlet with self confidence issues
being god would be lonely

>>9690670
>*localizes himself as a lesser being amongst other beings just like him and makes himself forget he is God until he wants to be alone again*
Wow, that was fucking hard.
Maybe you don't have what it takes to be a God.

>>9690070
Beimg God is great. You could go full Zeus at any time and fuck with mortals. Literally.

>>9690872
There would be some fun with it for sure, but how long would that last?

As other anon said, I think there would be much more fun with limiting yourself - for example, to reduce yourself to the form of Avatar (god-like human, but still human allright), and interact with humanity on "kind of level basis".

Or even better - for there to exist a polar, opposite God with similar powers and inpenetrable will, with which you would lead never ending proxy war, using humanity as a tool.

>>9691024
>How long would that last?
Eternity.

>>9689876
Pascals wager doesn't work given that the probability of picking the correct god out of all those create by humanity is so small that it may as well be zero.

If Cryogenics doesn't work, nothing is lost except as relatively small sum of money which is very tangible to understand.

If Pascal's wager is wrong, you might burn in a hell for all eternity. Better to be intellectually honest with yourself than to feign belief only to have a crack at immorality.

>>9687537


>>9687519


Carl Jung has an interesting view on what is the self.

According to him, the Self is that something which "can never be attained, but is pursuable". You can always become ever closes to it, but you can't never have it in your hands and call it yours.

Before you can it yours, you have to know that you are within it, and you cannot pretend to own it.

In more technical terms, it is both ego, and the symbolic space that surrounds it.

As Jordan Peterson puts it, "the Self is that which changes."

>>9683315
not even rendered. .. . go kys seriously.
Also if we could have a nice thread without this whole religious thing : https://www.huffingtonpost.com/natalie-kalin/immortality-may-be-more-t_b_9178214.html

>>9690872
true, that sounds fun. but after doing so for a million years and being aware that's not even a fraction of a second relative to the rest of your "life" ahead of you would put any everyday existential crisis to shame.

just join a religion bro
worked for 99% of every human who lived on this earth
one simple trick

>>9695047
The afterlife is physically impossible.

>>9695052
can you prove it?
the timeskip we feel when sleeping is also physically impossible but it happens anyways

>>9695054
There is no “timeskip”, just an interruption in qualia. You don’t experience things when you’re not experiencing you tard.

>>9695054
It’s physically impossible for consciousness, a phenomenon caused by the brain, to continue existing without the brain. Not sure why you don’t understand that.

>>9695055
>You don’t experience things when you’re not experiencing you tard.
death is lack of experiencing
if we do have an afterlife,we experience that when we die
if there isn't an afterlife,what do we experience
what are you going to see the moment after you die?
there needs to be an afterlife(or great revival) or else you're just going to be on some sort of non-experience forever, and that cannot happen

>>9695061
Wrong again. Death involves the total destruction of the brain, meaning consciousness, by definition, is utterly destroyed and cannot return, whereas sleep is only a temporary lapse in consciousness usually spiked with dream qualia we just forget.
We experience nothing when we’re dead. We’re dead. Our senses are destroyed and the neural strata that allowed us to think at all have been destroyed, so we no longer exist.
We don’t “see” anything. We’re dead.

‘or else you're just going to be on some sort of non-experience forever, and that cannot happen“

That’s a Hell of a claim. Why can’t experience cease permanently?

So what happens when we can store our memories and brain pattern 100% and reupload it into a new body?

What makes you (((you))) is the pattern of memories along with your body being in control right this moment

(((you))) die all the time as your pattern changes and the next second a new (((you))) is in control

What you're afraid of is that your pattern dies out and stops existing

>>9695176
There’s no reason to suppose a duplicate would continue your stream of consciousness instead of just being another being stuck with your shit memories.

>>9683251
>I don't want to want to die.

Why do you want to kys yourself anon?

CPG Grey video on overcoming aging:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZYNADOHhVY